So you think something that is necessary for life being monopolized and overpriced is comparable to a $1000 monitor stand that is completely optionable with a sea of alternatives that can accomplish the same exact thing for about 100 dollars or less?
@@Kinpil10 like most developed countries, I assume there is a national healthcare system so no one has to go without healthcare, and there is also private healthcare so people with money (or business that want to take care of their employees) can pay for premium healthcare
After this, my respect for Linus has sky rocketed. Shows how he is not just some of those bandwagon plebs, he actually has a brain for himself and can think critically with it.
He is a great business owner. People are so afraid to spend money on things they have to have for business now days. They think being a cheapass is the best way to save money, and that just trudging through downtimes or losing employees is their bad luck and not their managing style.
I'm pretty sure linus has never been a bandwagon pleb. Your respect for him should already have been sky high unless you are a new subscriber and did not know his thoughts about products. Im finding your comment about him having a brain and being able to critically think about it a little offensive. You are saying that before this video, that was your assumption of him.
I get the point he's trying to make, but it still doesn't refute the fact that the stand is an overpriced piece of crap. There's absolutely no reason for that monitor to not come with a stand. It's a preposterous cash grab. Apple's taking advantage of the fact that their consumers are either brainless tards, or have money to burn, or both. That's really all it is.
"but if we upgrade your chair we will have to upgrade everyone's chair" i would just say "bring your own chair" if they werent happy with the -lead pyramids- good chairs i give them
All they had to do was say the monitor cost $6000, or you can delete the stand and it's $5000. It's functionally the same, but when you phrase it like that it seems like a discount rather than adding a thousand to include the stand. Doesn't really matter for the people who buy these monitors but it probably would have toned down the outrage imo
I also think this as well. I think Apple royally messed by their messaging instead. If they rephrase it that they can have the monitor for $1000 less without a stand, then there will be few outrage. There are still will do but maybe just fewer and will be forgotten about it sooner. It is about the messaging. Considering that normally you can by more than 20k professional studio monitor. It makes this Apple Monitor unusually cheaper in the pro market. For us consumer, this price is beyond absurd. For bigger companies who do make money and th expenses is nothing as long as they can make more money, they can justify it.
The thing is, I don't think this was by mistake. I think that it might be a bad _choice,_ but ultimately this is precisely the type of image that they are trying to convey. Apple specifically chose to make it feel more expensive to lend "credibility" to the professional intentions of that product line. Apple doesn't want to market it as a _savings,_ because it isn't targeted at people who are price sensitive, or at least, who aren't willing to spend large sums of money on stuff they assume is worth the cost. It's targeted at people who see it as an investment in equipment for a business; think brand new farm tractor, not used car. Making the price apear more palatable would be a net negative to their presentation because the point isn't to save - it's to "invest", in Apples product line. I personally believe that that perspective is stupid for a publicly traded, consumer driven company to take, but it seems to be what they're aiming for, for whatever reason. I suspect it might be a desperate hedge against the lowered popularity Apple has endured since Steve Jobs death, and the tepid changes to existing product lines.
What would this have achieved? Only morons who (for reasons best left ignored) hate one computer company more than another computer company cared anyway, and they could barely afford the bundled Dell keyboard they spewed their irrelevant opinions from anyway.
I work in a cleanroom. We recently bought 3 new microscopes. Each one cost over $21,000. In each system, every single part, including the POWER CABLE and INSTRUCTION MANUAL was a separate line item in the bill. I’d say Linus is right about how they’re billing this out.
Well it's a valid point to some people. If you buy 3 microscopes you may not need 3 users manuals or 3 power cables if one is a backup standby and so on. Some parts you just need more of, so it's better to make them line items and reduce the base cost for a latter overall customized price experience. Plus once you start playing above 5k it starts to get iffy on if price really matters.
@@ShepardKammander I think the counterpoint to that would be that if you're paying $21k for the microscope they should toss in the manual for free. I could argue either side though.
chinqalicious well doohickey wr understand, but it probably has some weird name like f167499&1.. would u be able to understand that? Guess not. He tryna make it simple for ur unthankful ass
Linus started his own company and is a business man. He understands "value", not "price". I could careless about 6K, 60K or even 6M if it needs to be, if the tools were going to make back itself within a short period of time. If the ProXDR is as good as Apple's claim, then the monitor is actually under priced. ( Note: Apple even admitted they hope it brings so much value to FX Editing that everyone in the whole company chain will switch to it, making money with volume instead )
I'm better off with a Samsung or LG. Yes I agreed the display is crisp and accurate, but I'd prefer something else. Also the stand is worth a few bucks at scrap metal LOL XD
Dolphinasd Gaming the monitor is not consumer grade it is 100% for extreme high end professional work. Even professional photographers and videographers not on the extreme high end won’t need this monitor and will be just fine with a $500-3000 colour accurate ips panel at 1440p or 4K. Edit: so yes you and most people will be better with almost any other monitor that costs more than $200.
Monitor is overpriced because the excuse of the fanboys is that the cost will return ,big no if on windows side you will get 2x more money for the same investment A profesional is used to shoot on 75, 90 120 hz on red cameras like helium and mostro..lets see if the marketing genius can explain how will you display that videos not even auto calibrate Its amazing thatfanboys know how to explain why you should buy products they will never touch or test in their lived " oh it s aimed at pros not consumers" " stop.complaining about a product you will never buy" A 75k dell computer will be at least 2.5x more powerful than maxed 50k macpro
@@Teluric2 Do you even know what is a Reference Monitor? And "A professional is used to shoot on 75, 90, 120hz" pretty much gave it away. And the false acquisition of Fanboys knows how to explain you should buy a product when none of the above have been shown in any discussion just show the discussion is pretty much pointless.
@@WuschelofDespair 6k for the monitor, and 6k for a base model Mac Pro so it's $12,000 total, and an additional 1k is ~8% of current cost. (Actual Maths, 1k is 8.3% of 12k and 7.7% of 13k if it's price is included)
@@ManuelSalcedo apple made a great decision from a business point of view and Linux was able to see that. But that decision is shit for the consumer. So he mocks Apple for that.
I agree on your point but I'd like to let you know that a Bugatti Veyron oil change costs $22K because there are 16 drain plugs and you have to disassemble half the car to get to all of them.
@@danielwayno4439 If it was a consumer vehicle yes but it's a speciality vehicle with a dry sump oil pumping system which choose this design to improve performance. "Dry sump lubrication may be chosen for these applications due to increased reliability, oil capacity, reduction of oil starvation under high g-loads and/or other technical or performance reasons"
@@johnjonjhonjonathanjohnson3559 Bottom of the barrel shop rate in my area is $150 an hour, that's 146 hours at the most. Since it's an expensive car and a high end dealership, I'm sure there is plenty of markup on that. Yes it's a ripoff but they charge what they can because they can. The showed a video online of how they do the oil change and it takes about 5 people to disassemble the vehicle so that they don't scratch anything.
Can I disagree with Linus? 1. Apple and Steve Jobs' vision for Apple was to make products that work out the box. The first iMac had a handle on it to make it accessible as possible. If I were to buy this monitor and it didnt come with a stand, that is a product that doesnt work upon purchase. Which leads to the second point. 2. Linus was making the argument on "Accessories" and how we would expect head phones with our phone (example). However accessories are things that perhaps enhance functionality but it doesnt mean that purchases wouldnt work without it. The headphones example is great because your phone works 100% in all ways without them, however they provide that in-ear experience additionally if you do want them (plus they are universal and can be used with anything else). If i was to receive a monitor and there wasnt a stand in the box I would call up and ask for the stand because that would be something that takes away from its core function to operate as a monitor. It would be like getting a Ferrari without the wheels. Open to discussion! :)
Exactly. I completely understand the different sides to this and where people are coming from, but at some point it's blatant corporate greed. They know people will buy it so they can name whatever price they want, just like Nvidia and their cards. If a company has the kind of money Apple does, I'm pretty sure they can throw in a stand. You know it was a boardroom of people gathered around like "Hmm, how much should we charge for this piece of that thing that goes to the other thing?" "What about an even 1k?" "Genius!" Whole thing probably took 10 seconds.
@@Pumkin932 You also have to consider that value is different than price. If the price is higher than the value, not monetary value, then people are not going to buy the product. If value is higher than price, people will buy at any price. Yes, it is to some extent corporate greed. But you also have to consider that if they price their product out of the market, nobody will buy. So the fact that the product is purchased, proves they haven't priced it out of the market. And you really can't blame a company for trying to make as much money as they can, as that is the whole point of a company.
Speedbird idk it depends on your workload and software, i have a macbook pro 16 but am not a huge fan of os x so i installed windows on it for my audio software because os x updates break my plugins and daw way too often
if you're actually making money with it for a business, you're also expensing the cost. I'm a programmer, so that monitor is stupid to me. I would never buy it because I have no use for something like that. If I was a professional video editor for a movie studio, then it makes sense to have 2 of them on vesa mounts. People love to bitch, it's human nature.
@@azrael6280 I love to bitch, it's fun! I use windows, linux and mac. all of them have annoying stuff, but I won't bore everyone by listing every damn complaint :)
This is how people in the capitalist system should think. Everyone acts for their own self interest, thereby acting in everyone's interest. Making your employees happy, makes you Mony. So it is in your best interest to have happy employees. So being skimpy on a handle, because it costs $600, is actually shooting yourself in the foot. You lose more by being penny wise and pound foolish.
@@harjaskhaira9711 you will be surprised how expensive gifts he gets, the computer company i used to work used to get £1000 intel cpu for free to just built pc for magazine articles
I think the thing with Pro gear is: At this level, you may already have all the accessories you need. You may be mounting the monitor on the stand you already have, on a specialized rack, on the wall, whatever. So you don't want to spend on an overengineered stand. If you are getting the stand, you don't want to spend on the VESA mount. It's the same thing with RED cameras. You buy the sensor in a box. What other accessories you need is highly dependent on the shoots you are going to do, so you buy the accessories. But since you may be coming from another RED camera with compatible accessories, you may already have those.
I understand the stand argument but not including 4 freaking holes on the back of a monitor saves how much? The display wouldn't cost more if they had vesa built in so the argument about not wanting to spend more on a vesa mount is a miss The whole idea with making support for vesa standard a separate accessory is idiotic
@@filipprucnal either way the actual monitor was underpriced so they need to make the money back somehow also making holes costs money to machine the material so it would make the monitor more expensive-- aluminum is cheap, holes are expensive.
@@bananya6020 that's just it though. They didn't not machine holes to reduce the cost so the consumer didn't buy it. They specifically went against industry standard for as far as anyone can tell minimal gain to insure that you have to purchase their adaption hardware or their stand. The same is actually true for the red camera. Red didnt not include the accessories as they assumed serious operators wouldn't have them. The specificly included multiple proprietary connections only they use
Well Sony has professional monitors for movie making and they cost 30k and already have a stand with them why does it need a £1000 stand lol the picture should be worth 30k because that’s the what you fucking see lol 😂 not the bloody stand don’t know there shit apple only cares because the future of apple professional is a clean white room no wires no nothing just a beatiful work place lol Peaple who do colour adjustments for movies need loads of tools for editing a proper stt t studio is sooo messy that you can trip over on a 30k monitor and that monitor can probably take a baseball bat to it because they are made to be durable so if you accidentally drop it it will be fine the apple monitor you can’t take to a field lol like a calibrated Sony monitor
Linus could talk to a lot of corporate jargons about not being skimpy with their employees equipment / comforts. Having been in two different companies who thought saving a buck was better than having a desk that doesn't give me leg cramps, or having a chair that doesn't give me scoliosis, or even not having fucking sandpaper-like toilet paper, or even a fucking office space that's not a repurposed meeting room where 12 people barely even fit, or giving you shit for being late or leaving early when the only thing that really matters is that your work is done. This shit has got to go. We need more people like Linus that don't think about saving money at the expense of their employees wellbeing, which in turn saves the company money by keeping the employees happy and therefore healthy and eager to work.
tommapar88 a lot of supposed ‘business people’ today understand the cost of everything but the value of nothing - it’s what a culture of ultra short term thinking and a reluctance to invest in the future gets you. As you quite rightly said, even having nice toilet paper has an economic effect.
Linus being a businessman, employing people and having to make his company profitable to pay his employees gets it. He understands "value" versus "price". He has garnered 1000% respect points from me. The haters that wish they could be in a position to understand, let alone afford actual, professional tools will still continue hating on Apple just for the sake of hating. The XDR with stand is a bargain compared to the cost of its nearest competitors. Irrelevant to haters simply because of the logo. Good job Linus. If only the haters infesting this thread could anywhere understand the elegance of your debate.
"Value" vs "price" doesn't mean that you can charge however much you want. That is where people's gripe with Apple comes from. It's a fucking monitor stand, not an expertly crafted custom made tool. In fact, you could have a machinist make one BY HAND for a fraction of that absurd price. Do note that I'm not talking about the value of the monitor. I have no idea how it stacks up to other panels in its class and I don't care; it's the stand that's the point of contention. If Apple really wanted to mark the monitor up another $1000 because they believe it's worth it then fine, I've got no problem with that, but putting that price on what is basically an aluminum angle bracket is ridiculous and should come off as insulting to anyone with a functioning brain.
@@demoniack81 I guess that's just one of those things, a professional will quickly decide the pro/cons of just eating the cost of the overpriced monitor stand, or making their own or finding a cheaper alternative.
Good point, but does the monitor work without a stand? The fact that Apple has a proprietary mount (requiring a VESA adaptor) is questionable as well. It tells me they have let aesthetic stand before engineering, therefore the value provided by the 'Pro' stand is suspect. Feelings aside, it should be noted VESA monitor arms arent far behind. Flow arms are around $400.
from what I understand it comes with a very basic stand like your cheapo monitor and just latches on, but the $1000 one has all the adjustments and needs a vesa mount
When you buy a RED camera for $40,000 you buy a body that cannot function on its own. You must buy all of the other accessories for it to record, turn on, save audio, and connect to a lens. Different ballgame.
Paul ------ You said: "It tells me they have let aesthetic stand before engineering" Actually, it sounds like perhaps you haven''t seen the stand in action. The aesthetics are very nice, but the engineering is spectacular. In real life when a company makes this type of purchase they spend about 10 seconds thinking about the stand. These are highly trained workers who produce very high revenues, the company employing them is not going to worry about 1 k.
@@bruxi78230 True, I have not seen it in action, and I agree that a company spending tens of thousands is not going to sweat $1k on a well built, ergonomic stand. What I really take issue with is Apple not using the VESA standard mount in favor of their own flaky mount and adapter....Although, I must admit, I probably wouldn't care if that adaptor wasn't $200. That just sort of adds insult to the injury caused by the high price stand I'm having a hard time seeing the value of in the first place.
@@paulskalla6845 The typical VESA mount won't work for something this beefy apparently. So they had to engineer the adapter around that fact. It's also incredibly simple to install. It's guided by magnets. It may not seem important, but if you're working for a company that just bought a shit load of these things and need to mount them all you will appreicate that extra thought that went into their installation. Even poor Bob from IT who has to do all this is being paid by the hour, so the more he can do in that hour the better for everyone, especially when the people who'll want Bob to finish up so they can get to work making the real money show up and want to use them.
I can understand the overpriced aluminum doo-hickey Linus used as an example as it serves a purpose that performs better than its competitors... But does a $999 monitor stand, which performs like everything else out there, be a fair comparison? I don't think there's any productivity to be gained from the $999 stand, I truly don't.
It’s like buying headphones, i can buy a rubbish pair for $10 that comes with nothing else and no special features. I can buy a nice pair of headphones for $100 that has good audio quality and features such as noise cancelling or bluetooth. I could also buy a $1000 pair of headphones that have great quality audio but won’t come with a cable, because as a sound engineer, i already have my own.
This is stuff ordinary people don’t think about and Linus has put it in a way that people can understand. Is well reasoned and succinct. When you own a bunnies you realise this stuff and priorities change. His line about “when it’s a thing you use to actually make money with” is spot on. The drones in the offices I often visit have no clue what their employer has to do for them just to function. Well done Linus for summing up one of the many really valid points he often makes
It's well reasoned from the eyes of a business owner. But any sane professional still probably thinks this is fucking retarted. If you use tech to make money wouldnt you want to pay the least you possibly can for the products you need? Of course. It's an increase in your profit margin. It's like buying a luxury car and then the dealer tells you the transmission is sold separately. Even if you are a luxury chauffeur that is not justified. It's just them knowing they can get away with it because people are stupid.
@@FruitchGFX even if you are making money off it most people who make money from their creations want to maximize their profit margin by getting the best value. There is 0 value in a thousand dollar stand
Linus is right... In a commercial application, getting what you want or need, is worth so much money, you will spend the money to get what you want, piece by piece. So it's sold, piece by piece. At a very high price. But a lot of consumer stuff is just as good as a the commercial stuff. You just have to know the area that you are buying.
Maybe this is true if you are buying en masse. But if one person who runs a solo business realises their 5000 dollar monitor doesnt come with a stand I'm gonna guess they will likely be pissed when they find out they have to shell out a fifth of what they already paid just to make the product functional. Yes there are people willing to pay for it and dont care but that doesnt make this any less fucking retarted and greedy. Imagine if you bought a Bentley for 300k and then when you take delivery and try to start the car you are told "oh sorry ya you still need to get the transmission for 60k". Even if you are a luxury chauffeur who drives celebrities around you arent going to be happy with that. Just because you are a professional doesnt mean you are no longer a consumer.
hard knocklife first of all, no one running a solo business is going to even consider buying this monitor because it simply isn’t meant for them. In addition, your Bentley analogy doesn’t hold water. A Bentley is a luxury product not a professional product so the markets are completely different. The majority of Bentley purchases are personal and the majority of Pro Display XDR purchases are commercial. A personal product is expected to have everything included. A commercial product of this quality is sold differently because the other products in this category are also sold this way. The monitors this thing is competing with don’t come with stands either.
His logic is OK but it just doesn't apply here. It's a stand and it doesn't do anything a normal computer monitor stand can't do. So it has no additional value over a normal monitor stand. That means that Apple has created a highly overpriced stand just to get money out of the fanboys who don't even need the monitor. Any business man would never spend that amount off money on a stand because there are cheaper options doing the same job or even a better one if you have a very specific need and have to mount the monitor onto some jig. To put this in perspective, you can get a $1000 monitor with it's stand included and it will do the exact same thing the one from Apple does. Granted, it might not turn you desktop automatically, but that is not worth the extra cost. There is just no argument to be made that this stand has the value Apple asks for.
I doubt the stand for my $1000 monitor would work too well with a 12KG monitor on it. It certainly wouldn't be as easy to adjust with 1 hand as Apple one. I have a $900 UltraSharp display, the stand on it is very nice. It's nowhere near as nice as the Apple one though. It still needs 2 hands to adjust properly, it's stiff, it creeks, it flexes (because it's plastic). For the monitor its holding up, it's fine. I wouldn't want something as heavy and chunky as the XDR sitting on it though. I wouldn't trust it to hold it up for long.
At the end of the day, whether the machine is being used for business or personal use the computer and monitor cost $12,000. Anyone who would actually care about the $1,000 for the stand wouldn't pay $12,000 in the first place when they could buy a balls to the wall windows machine for half, a third or even a quarter of that.
Really glad a respected person said this. People are so happy to jump bandwagons and compare apples to locomotives. The real problem being that people assume that a stand should have been included. These are not products that people will use with 20$ included accessories and chances are that if you're buying a monitor like this, you already have a mounting solution for it.
@@LaLiLuLeLoX That's four times cheaper than the monitor in question, so pretty irrelevant. And judging by the fact that you're listing it's price, I'd say it's safe to assume you actually bought that stand separately, so my point stands (haha) either way. My point was that people are wrong in thinking that the stand in question should come included with the monitor. It's a premium accessory, not something you can't use that monitor without.
My monitor @ 1500 dollars came with a stand. Not without one to rather charge me 250dollars to get a stand!! I don't know your perception of what a stand should be but a $1000 is more than overkill for a potrait/landscape stand!! Does it even swivel?? like for real!! Cmon dude snap outta it!!
Say the monitors are included and with the increased number of units manufactured they only add $200 to the cost. A company that uses their own mounts and needs 1000 monitors will have to spend $200,000 extra and then toss out the stands.
Or how bout it's a 5000 dollar monitor that probably costed 1000 or less to produce because they use chinese slave labor so you can just include the fucking stand in case it IS needed.
A great reference are also the pro dslr cameras, the canon 5D or 1D doesn’t come with a built in flash because any professional photographer would buy another pro flash anyway 😆
In fact, most DSLRs come in two kind kind of "kits" one with a single basic lenses and another, barebones without any lenses. Guess which one all but the most junior photographers usually buy.
The problem with any assertion that this is 'pro level gear' with a price tag associated would be valid.... but they never really had it in the first place. It's different for companies producting 'fleet' hardware, such as Hilti power tools, who exist as fleet level assets that are in use on a wide scale, serviced by the company, or rented out on leasing contracts. THOSE tools are ridiculous expensive for seemingly no reason, but have the long-term backing of the manufacturer so that an industrial firm is never down due to tool failure. The same applies to high level camera equipment, which is low volume, limited use, and thus very expensive. The same does not apply to computer hardware outside of ACTUAL niche uses, like IBM or other companies creating new silicon for supercomputers; a.k.a. non-consumer hardware. Similar example would be your own server networking hardware; needing very expensive new switches and special cables to achieve speeds that are not useful outside enterprise level uses. There is no justification beyond a company wanting a round number, on to of a very high priced PC, and knowing their customer base is willing to pay the traditional Apple tax for those sleek looks. If the stand was $500, no one would bat an eye, because at least that would be a LOT closer to the cost of a very nice VESA monitor arm (albeit, far less useful).
You should see the cost of some of the VESA mounts we use. The line item cost for not just the stand but various required parts for them make them more expensive than the Pro Stand, and on top of that the monitors we buy come with stands and those tend to just go straight into recycling. Sure, Apple is allowing consumers to buy these, but they're aimed at corporations that have fleet contracts with Apple much like Makita or Hilti.
@ufster81 well maybe we should create an example where we would profit from said car with business in mind??? Imagine you have company that rents out cars. And you have concluded from data that luxury cars would give you increase in profit with low risk. That "overpriced" floor mat with M badge would be nothing compared with people willing to rent luxury cars from you. You would get that money back and profit. Those luxury car renting customers would pay higher just to be in a car where status symbol is shown. For avarage person, yeah go ahead and choose other bare bones car. You aren't their main custumer.
@ufster81 I'm afraid you're totally missing the point here. If you're a professional, your time and effort is literally equivalent to potential money earned. If you spend $15k on a professional setup, an extra $1k for a stand of guaranteed quality, compatibility, and customer service is worthwhile. There are alternatives that could save you money, yes. But they're not worth your time to consider, when it's only $1k to just get the official version. And that's the point of view you'd have as a professional - $1k to just get what you need for your setup is nothing. Sure, you'd know it's expensive for what it is physically, you know you could find something similar for less with a bit of time and effort. But it's still at a price where its just not worth the fuss of shopping around. Get it, be done with it, move on. You'll be using it daily for a few years, that initial $1k is irrelevant. You might even think it a bargain, if your friend in the same business cheaped out and is constantly complaining that his $200 stand has some irritating quirk or issue that all could have been avoided.
Macbook pro has become a professional thing for like producer/artists but it also caters to normal users and is a price normal people can afford. The mac pro is purely professional, and if you buy the Mac Pro just for home use, you're stupid or so rich that it doesnt matter
The Macbook pro provides a comfortable experience: it's fast, great battery, fast. Etc. I still think it's overpriced but it offers things that other laptops don't. The Mac Pro is just stupid. It doesn't have the 'comfortable' element cause it's a desktop. I mean. I made a 2.3k Linux / windows machine more powerful than the 7k version. Why do you need a Mac Pro if not for status and luxury?
ᛚᚢᚲᚨᛋ ᚺᚨᛋᛖᛚᛗᚨᚾᚦ i completely agree with you but youtubers aren’t buying it for the status they are buying to make a video on it because they will make their money back and can write it off on their taxes as a business expense
Only take into account that a xeon processor isn’t cheap, is mostly use for professional editing, and the guy who mention de 2.3k machine he can build, I’m totally sure it doesn’t have a xeon maybe you use and i7 or ryzen 5 but it isn’t the same
@ᛚᚢᚲᚨᛋ ᚺᚨᛋᛖᛚᛗᚨᚾᚦ The main pros you gave for the Mac Pro is just OS related. You could still build a more powerful hackintosh for a third the cost. I don't know if the Afterburner card will work on a hackintosh build yet though. @andres m. Yeah, not quite the same as a Xeon, but in the end it's about actual performance, and consumer parts are outperforming the lower-end Xeons in everything, except maybe AVX-512 applications, of which most don't even use.
Honestly, it comes down to volume. These are highly engineered products, with very low, little sales. They need to be priced very very high. That's why any RED accessories are so much money, because not many people have reds, and retooling/stocking/overhead costs increase price to produce/sell/store/ship. In the case of Apple, because they have a gigantic user base, they are actually providing a GREAT VALUE because they know their sales are better than the competitions (like Sony reference monitors)
That's exactly the case. Equipment aimed at professional users costs a ton of money because it can. It's not being sold in a large volume, it is built to last, it's meant to be a workhorse and people who buy it for their company can deduct it from their income. Quick disconnect brackets for boom microphones can cost ridiculous amounts but if you are on a movie set and need to switch either boom or mic really fast because time is crucial, you need one and it cost can be quickly justified.
4 года назад
The new Mac is not a consumer product. It’s for professionals who make what it costs every day, week or month.
Its an excuse...nobody will buy it unless forced to work on macos...a dell computer at the price of a fully maxed macpro will be way more powerful..in the digital cinema forum most will buy dell puguet because macpro doesn have powerful hardware like rtx nvidia cards
Yeah, and a lot people who can’t even really afford it will buy it as well just to flex. It’s Apple. Everything they make is a status symbol on top of being a productivity machine. I’d be curious to know how many people default on their payments when they “buy” an Apple computer.
That happened if course where I work many executives get the iPhone because they like it. Some like other things like samsung. Why are so mad about other people choice that you are making up stories like that.
@@pvc8749 "Made up story" huh? I honestly wish. Probably every other person in a big US city knows someone like this, myself included. Idk about other demographics and locations, but the ones I'm familiar with? Too common for people who aren't making enough money to justify it. Like Linus said, there's a part of this that's become a status symbol to the point that people who will only ever browse Facebook, Instagram, and RU-vid will still buy it. Bless your soul for being able to dismiss this as a made up story, honestly. I wish I was that insulated from the idiots in my vicinity.
@@JDavinoM I'm actually pretty well traveled, though I don't stick around and get to know people there... which is why I don't presume to know about the demographics of anywhere but what I'm from. I can't say anything back to "finish high school." I haven't looked at my degree in years, so unless you stole it, I couldn't prove my graduation to you. Enjoy your life, bud
@@TheJarJarKinks I guess I am not from the US And we are not really used to credit cards You usually pay with a debit card if you have enough money I see your point I and I did not expect it to be so widespread I guess I minimized the stupidity of people and just plain different consumption priorities Thanks for your response :)
Tbh that was a very logical and intelligent point that changed what I thought about Apple's pricing and gave me allot of respect for Linus. He cares more about his employees than he does money and that's awesome.
Sergio Yi oh and I guess Apple isn’t!?!? I don’t get it... because they sold a product with a 5400 rpm drive 😂😂😂 at that point you’re just looking for something to be upset about. Like why even bother watching an Apple related video, you’ve always made up your mind.
@@jozef_franek I think he is saying the dell 8k monitor includes a stand and it only cost $3600. But that isn't a fair comparison because it doesn't match spec for spec to the XDR display. I do think the 1k stand is bonkers though.
As you buy more exclusive, less accessories will be added, because premium customers want to have their own, professional products don’t assume what will you use the products for.
Sure, I don't think Apple has missed their audience with this one, but that doesn't make it any less stupid. They just know their customers are stupid enough and rich enough to buy something stupidly overpriced so long as they slap an Apple logo on it.
there are two types of pricing in the business world, one is cost based where you have a lot of competitors and you have to just charge a markup over your cost as a profit *But* the other is value-based pricing and that means there is not much competition but the buyer has so much value for the product that they can spend upto this much for the product and Pro machines at apple are priced according to value based pricing inclduing macbook pros and iphone pros.
They'd have no market, for exactly the reasons outlined in this video. When you're a professional working at that level, you're not going to even consider Chinese knock-offs. The extra $1000 for the real thing is basically irrelevant to the total costs anyway, and for that you're getting a guarantee of compatibility, quality and, service. All that saves you time and effort compared to an alternative stand, and when you're a professional that time and effort is money.
@@dandavidson4717 Well as a professional 3D designers we at work used Dell u2410f which has 1.07 billion colour for a price of ≈450$ at that time. And as an expert and actual professional I could not justify of spending 6000 for a 'stupid' monitor. (And I will tell you by the secret look which monitors are using most of hollywood studios. Spoiler: it's mostly Dell, or HP)
@@dandavidson4717 this is what they say for iphones before chinese and korean giants took over the market few years back. Look where iphone sales ranked now globally. Sooner or later some company will provide and come out with the same things u have with better specs and at affordable price. Few years back everyone would say that, iphone is the thing, who would buy chinese product. Look what happens now? Everyone is switching their favourites to the dark side. Dont underestimate the power of affordability.
@@dandavidson4717 Simple question then, would u buy a same spec stand for $200 from china company, or $999 from apple?? Ohh just so u know, china manufactures most of iphone product.
Chaos Koda to play devil's advocate: All of the revenue from that candy bar goes to the theater and its employees. Very little of the revenue of the movies actually support the theater. EDIT: Revenue is probably a more accurate term than profit.
I doubt the monitor stand could ever provide it's cost back in value, I don't care how many times you call yourself a "serious professional". Let's just own up to what it is, apple seriously overpricing things because that's what apple does.
This what he said was massive hitting point and even the normal apple fans should here it out , the cheese grater and all its expensive parts are for professionals and high end professionals only it's not for juicing your instagram game. Which is also a reason why these products should not have been marketed by b2c influencers those who just review tech for average consumers.
While I do understand what he's saying, it does not justify the amount of cost for the product delivered. The handle in his example, like he said, is made of simple parts that costs little to nothing in production standards. Yet the cost of it, because I'm sure it works well and no one else makes it, is incredibly high. I'm sure apples stand is great, but $1000? No.
But couldnt the exact monitor stand be made and sold for less then a tenth of that? Or the grip for the red camera, it could be machined for far less. Theres no point in defending something like that, get the tools that improve your work flow, but dont throw money at the first thing you see.
Dont forget that machining aluminum is very expensive. A CNC machine has insane running costs. If you're only going to sell 1000 or 2000 pieces, even a simple aluminum solid machined shape can costs you hundreds of dollars to manufacture.
The low volume is a very underrated point. The stand may not look all that different than a similar stand, but if you are only making a few, you don’t get the economies of scale.
Linus nailed this. I don’t know why Apple did this launch at WWDC. It was not the correct audience. They could have done the exact same presentation two months earlier at NAB and they likely would have gotten a standing ovation at the end.
Maybe it wasn't ready to show? And I'm pretty sure they had them there and were showing them off to select users in that field. They also don't announce things at other people's events any more, that stopped when they pulled out of MacWorld. They announce things on their own schedule, not to someone elses.
Looking at the comments here, is this how the forum is like? Thank god I’m not on it. Linus gives a concise and compelling arguments, all of you still hung up on the price? Completely missing the point.
I think very few people will need the stand. Most professionals use VESA mounts I think. I totally agree with Linus. It also has another positive side to sell the stand seperately: people only buy the stand if they need it. If it would be included but not used, it would be a waste of aluminium and not good for the environment.
Agree, though really depending on the business, some people just don't want to put in the time and just want the simplest solution, if I ever have a business, I probably won't touch any apple product since they are overprice and I have enough technical knowledge to find alternative (or will to do research). As for the stand, SpaceCo made some of the best monitor stand in the business and its cost less (Wendell from LevelOne tech have one of those and 1 arm can hold a 43inch display, you can config up to 6) and I doubt that thr Apple stand can ever come close to those.
Sorry, no stand is worth $1000. You can act all high and mighty, typical Apple fanboy attitude, about it being “pro” equipment. Doesn’t excuse the rip off price. The irony in this comment thread about “bandwagoning” from the Apple cult too. Lol
I agree. It's one thing to understand that a stand won't come with an expensive Mac Pro, but a stand, which is a hunk of machined metal, does not cost $1000.
Search something professional gear, like a professional camera, or even a monitor. Your eyes will be opened that these products are not for us average consumers, professional video editor's monitor cost more than $5k believe me
@AniMeusic Thats not the fucking point a piece of medal shouldn't cost that much money. I bet it isn't possible to make a competitor to it because Apple is such a court troll.
The real reason is that because these ultra high-end products aren't mass produced like regular consumer electronics, they have to be sold at such a price to recoup the cost of production, which is quite high when so few units are produced. It's all economics.
Aqeel Hashim nah the design is easy with Solidworks. It’s not to different from 3D printing and high school kids all over the world are printing their custom designed parts. Can also use a 3D scanner as a base, and touch it up in Solidworks in places that need a precise fitment. Plenty of amateurs out there making parts on their PocketNC and Tormach CNC mills with no experience. Doesn’t take long to get a hang of using CAD/CAM and Solidworks. Or if really inept/unskilled at a task can just hire a Engineering student off Fiverr, Upwork, or Freelancer.com to do it for a few bucks. People work for literally nothing on those freelancing sites, I had some PCB circuit boards designed for a electro-pneumatic paintball gun I was remanufacturing from an out of production design and had the original PCB reverse engineered for $120. Had the PCB layout back in a week to send off to be printed by a PCB prototypes/manufacturing shop and in my mailbox within a couple weeks. Can get basically anything off there, plenty of worldwide university grads and students from all industries desperate for American dollars. If you really want a deal need to take a chance on a Chinese or Indian provider and hope the language barrier doesn’t affect the process too much, but can save tons vs contracting a North American freelancer and not having the exchange rate/cost of living benefit
I agree with his outlook, the monitor IS a professional grade product. Stands, are not, they are a high volume market with plenty of options, by arbitrarily not making the monitor vesa compatible, apple has artificially created a low volume professional only market for itself to milk.
@@RR-uc1wb That's just the "he hit me first". Hitting people is still wrong. It's anti-user (pro or consumer) and creates artificially bloated margins. When you circumvent competition, capitalism stops working. Before tech, if someone makes a better car, you can just switch. Now, even if someone makes a better phone, all your apps/data/habits are back on the old one, so even if it's worse, people stay. And this is starting to apply to a lot more than phones.
He's leading a successfull media company at this point. And while he is (very) often host on the videos of the various channels - he's got to do all kinds of bullshit to lead it. A huge part of that is cost calculation and all of that crap. Sure enough, he propably got workers that do many of the tasks for him, but he still got to overseight all of that and needs to make decisions.
I respect Linus more for admitting that he just buys expensive gear to make his employees happy. I only wish Brandon (the camera/video guy) would be upfront about it instead of pretending that there are just no other options other than buying RED Cinema Cameras. Any person who works in the film/video industry knows Brandon is full of non-sense, and just likes the expensive toys Linus is willing to pay for. Just admit it already dude. We don't need an entire video series explaining why RED Cameras are "essential" for shooting RU-vid videos.
If you're shooting films that will take in several hundred millions at the box office, would you care? It's a professional production-grade camera system, not a consumer-grade point-and-shoot.
@@Misterz3r0 Their storage is bullcrap. Charging 3k (as said in the video) for a cheap Chinese SSD with a fancy casing. I wouldn't say other things are overpriced, but you just can't do that to your customers, sorry.
he’s not defending anything he’s explaining why someone would and will buy the product and why overpriced things in the professional space are the way they are
I wonder how much that $1000 stand actually cost to manufacture, ship ... In this video Linus explains why paying $1000 for a monitor stand isn't a big deal for a professional. Over charging isn't just about what a product can do, it's also how much it cost the company to make it plus overhead vs how much the product is being sold for. It's like the cost of prescription drugs. If a new drug could prolong your life by 10 years, but they charge 10 times what it cost them to manufacture it then that is price gouging.
There’s also cost of manufacturing. I mean, how many of those stands are they expecting to sell? It’s going to be less than the monitors themselves, for sure ... and these are niche products. It’s not cheap to open whole production line for such small quantity.
Krzysztof Bobkowski and even that doesn’t include the cost of designing it in the first place, paying the hourly rates or salaries of the people designing it, the people who approve the design, the advertising going into the product. People don’t understand how long and complex the process is!
Every monitor needs something to support it whether it be an arm that attaches via the VESA mount ($200) or using their stand ($1000). Either way, Apple will make you pay for something that you technically don't need but is required for actual use. On the other hand, the handles for the Red camera aren't needed for use, you can use a gimble, put it on a tripod or use any other mounting mechanism and because of that, they are justified for having that high of a price given that they have extremely tight tolerances and use high-quality materials. There is no need for Apple's VESA mount to cost $200, it is a $5 piece of metal that has been stamped and painted with an all-out cost of at most $7.
Dude it doesnt cost THAT much for a simple stand. Its been proven over and over Apple knows and gets away with selling things for MUCH more than it actually costed to design and make the product. Thats how the company is so wealthy; they screw over their customers. Like legit a high schooler could design a better stand within a day and get it produced no problem. The 1,000 stand is just them talking it to the next level, knowing people will still buy it anyways.
Little Waffles You are so naive lmfao. “A high schooler could design a better stand”. No, they really couldn’t. And it’s not a simple stand, get your facts right before commenting stupid statements.
Little Waffles and one more thing, apples profit margin on the iPhone is roughly 60-70%. Why r u calling Apple scummy when companies who sell water sell it for about 300 times what it costs them... 😂
The "defence" is pretty dang lame. That "dohickie" saves money due to improved ergonomics. The Apple stand doesn't provide anything extra for the huge honking insane money for what it's worth. I just cost more for the very exact same function as the other way cheaper stands already provide. It doesn't improve anything at all. Not even quality. The Apple stand is the perfect example on the sheeples that buys into the Apple brand.
Wow this flew way over your head. This display competes with 20K+ USD reference displays that guess what, do NOT come with a stand. Apart from youtubers, most companies will vesa mount the Apple monitor. There, a free lesson you, noob. I'm so tired of tech noobs.
@@BrawndoQC Very interesting... It still has nothing to do with the points he made. I guess you could say this flew way over your head. #irony Don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next products. The fact that you used "noob" unironically outside a gaming environment is a dead giveaway that you are compensating for something. Don't worry, you can always buy the new iVibrator, $999 plus shipping.
His defense is if people are paying that much, they probably wont care spending a grand more on the stand. I'd say he's right, but this doesn't mean it's justified for its pricing.
Linus is right. Healthcare is massive I just did physical therapy, each session 135$, total of 13 sessions. Not including evaluation and initial visit. All for something that could’ve been avoided with better designed equipment in my case. So if you can spend more so that you don’t have to look up at a monitor at a weird angle for hours and develop a pain in your neck, then why not. You’re already paying a lot, it’s not much more to get a specifically designed piece, that works in sync with the rest of the equipment. Also my dad used to run maintenance and he would bring stands and mounts from time to time because he said they were just throwing them out. So you could be saving money if know you aren’t going to use an included piece.
If you look at the way it's manufactured, cheaper won't be all that much cheaper if they go the same route in terms of production. Milled solid block aluminum construction is expensive, man. Honestly, those stands are probably sold at a break even point or potentially even at a loss with how few they'll sell overall.
@@mrosenblatt heh yeah my friend is a machinist and they make simpler stuff at crazy prices.... i blame IKEA and China for manipulating a generation....
@@mrosenblatt Are you joking? Apple selling stuff with low margin of profit? You wanna know how they got to a 1.2 TRILLION dollars evaluation? Not for a 1.6-4% profit margin like Amazon for sure. I mean, the Base Mac Pro has less than 2.1k worth in specs and it's sold for 6k (give another 1k for the case and extra stuff and they have almost a 50% profit. And I'm not talking about discount they surely had for buying in bulk )
@@JR-mk6ow I'm purely talking about the stand. There are products that companies put out known as "Loss Leaders". It's a basic economic concept that is used around the world, even by trillion dollar companies.
So basically, Apple imply that the stand's cost is insignificant if you're spending 12k on the monitor and pc, and they further try to justify its cost by assuming it won't need any repair. My dude, even a $600 Asus monitor comes with a stand that doesn't need any maintenance nor does it wear out over time, and it's included with the monitor.
@@marcusborderlands6177 no it's not, charging 1000 for a stand is idiotic (separately btw not even as an accessory), don't take the "look at the business stand point" shit to justify it. Hmm maybe i will sell a bottle of water for 500 and tell everyone it's fine because if you look at the business stand point..........
Linus is a true business man.. he knows exactly what he is doing and he is good at it. you can see the depth of his knowledge coming out on this video.
