@@CyberGizmo 12:50 - "Looks like windows11, looks like i have arrived" ... only thing i thought was the wallpaper.. like some stoneage architecture... not sure if it was intended pun or.. but it made me laugh :D
I've tried doing something similar to this. This month I was going to use Windows and next month use Linux and January make my final decision to stick with Windows or Linux. Right when I installed Windows and had to install all my drivers and disable some privacy settings I immediately switched back to Linux lol
@@CyberGizmo Well... As long time PC user with quite a bit of experience, started my journey with dos 6.22 all the way throught every Windows (including server versions, skipping W8 because it was stupid nightmare), complete passionate, started my linux part with PLDlinux distro (years back), Mint, Fedora, and few other, i can say one thing. I never had so many problems, when i've tried do some more than just open browser, on windows than on linux. Last time actually when i've tried to convince myself to linux again, was few month back when i was trying to use my old PC as file/DLNA server (I said to myself, well it's been so many years, my PC is old, everything should be there and working sweet on linux right?). I've spent like hours and hours trying to make my WIFI and graphics card working(had to install 3rd party drivers and they were working correctly on one distro only - if you can say that for wifi working with only half of its bandwith), then DLNA server work correctly (GNOME desktop should be just matter of click right? WRONG) after days of fighting made it finally work, and ended up with DLNA fcked up after system update (not manual update - via built in update manager). Then i gave up. On windows on the other hand it took me around 1h to install it (w10), no extra drivers installation required (apart of WIFI because it was brand new card but took few clicks to make it running with FULL BADNWITH ) and after so many months it's still working sweet. Not to mention i have easy remote acces (graphical) while on linux it was impossible to obtain, and also WTF do i need to keep MY MONITOR ON on remote pc to acces the system via remote desktop on linux? It's just ridiculous. As long as all those weak points of linux will exist, it will not be system for masses. I agree it made big step forward (like when i started first time every X desktop you had to manually setup, now you just install gnome and more less its ready to work) but still is WAY behind of ease of use.
ssh - win 11 comes with openssh installed.. just hop onto the cli and ssh like you would in linux. Should feel REALLY familiar because it's written by the same team, the openssh team. The client is installed by default. You can install the server via gui using the optional features dialog box.. searchable from the start menu. To USE the ssh client you will be in the cli, but same with linux right? Bitwise is good though, and for scp if you need it winscp is solid.
Audio driver issues are very common in Windows 10. It simply doesn't update to the latest drivers. Had to work very hard to make the audio channels work properly.
In Windows, you can mount a downloaded Windows iso. ,click the opened folder and double-click set up to begin the installation. You have two choices: you can do an in place upgrade and keep your personal files and apps or do a clean install and wipe everything and start afresh. It takes between 20 and 40 minutes for the installation to complete, depending on your PC and the memory available to it to process that accordingly. Once finished, you have the famous OOTB experience to set up Windows before being taken to the desktop.
you don't need the command line to install windows ssh tools...just go to the GUI and add the feature; also isn't my windows terminal with pwsh a shell? oh-my-posh etc gives you a really nice setup
I completely agree with your conclusions. When I see on Facebook groups people struggling to get SMB work between Linux machines I answer "use nfs" as politely as possible. When I see questions like "I do xyz like this on Windows, how to do in Linux" I answer Linux is not Windows
Hang in there DJ! It's nice to see someone attempting this. I do it find interesting what people consider a "daily driver". For me it's not about gaming but rather how does it work for small business/home office where multitasking with lots of different software and peripherals are essential. I have done development work under UNIX and Linux for over a decade and that is a breeze compared to home office setup. And I have to be honest this is where Linux falls down the most: No good standalone tax software, no good finance software. horrendous document scanner support(e.g SANE sucks compared to ABBYY). LibreCalc macros are not compatible with Excel if I need to share documents. Sharing documents is something people don't consider enough! In short I still have to have to use Windows VMs just to get daily work done....(And WINE is just way too fragile). For gaming no multitasking is required, I just hotswap in a dedicated Wi10/11 SSD and away we go.
Okay, let's cut the fat a bit and go to PRACTICAL terms: I just bought a new laptop few months ago. Windows runs it with temperatures lower than Linux, around 10 C Degrees cooler on idle in fact. That's a bit much. Linux doesn't allow me to Suspend to RAM, just hibernate (hey, I dont want to perform unnecessary writes to my SSD, thanks very much) Issues from 10 years ago still present on Linux, and it doesn't seem like it will ever change.
Another weak point for Linux in practical terms: memory management. Windows, no matter how heavy is an application that I'm trying to run, never puts me into a frozen unusable state due to low memory conditions.
New machines usually get their drivers published through Windows Update. When you hook them up to your PC, they get downloaded automatically. That said, usually on Linux you don't need to even wait for the driver to download, as it comes with the OS. That also said, since their drivers have to be developed by the community, sometimes they're missing. However, that also means they're still older machines that work with current versions of Linux, which Windows stopped supporting. By the way, a driver is a piece of software the OS uses to interact with hardware. Without the driver, the hardware can't be used.
@@nodezsh my experience with linux is at least some of your hardware won't work. there's no driver for it. probably you find an open source driver on github that you have to compile yourself and after hours of trying to get it working it just doesn't work and you're sad
@@stephenkamenar That happens. Usually modern hardware works fine, but there's many exceptions. Again, the problem here is that the community has to develop the drivers by themselves, in their free time. I usually don't run into trouble, however I do sometimes go for hardware I know will work fine. If you went for Linux and you happened to choose hardware which doesn't have a driver, you're pretty much screwed. It sucks. However I haven't had that happen often. I'm guessing you're talking about Wi-Fi drivers. Those are a pain and are the usual reason one needs to look for drivers.
Hello. Just stopped now at 25:44, And if you want to ssh into a machine in your lab, you don't need to install anything. Both Windows Command Line and powershell have ssh baked into them. All you gotta do is ssh user@yourip and you're off to the races. As for ssh server, i think you can remove into windows powershell for doing stuff, but rarely you have to use the command line on windows, unless something breaks. Good Hunting.
Technically, a linux terminal shell is a CLI. CLI just refers to the method of access, which in this case is writing commmands in a terminal line, ie. command-line interface. You could also have a graphical shell, which DE's, or GUIs, basically are.
For your display problem got to settings > display then select the display you want to set as default, you'll find the option if it's not set as default. For restarts, don't do them & wait until every driver & update is downloaded or waiting for install, that'll only be a single restart. A tip for auto restarts, go to settings update & set auto restart after windows update to some bizzare time such as 2 AM to 3 AM when your PC'S shut down, it'll never restart after update automatically.
@@buca117 Rufus supplies it´s own bootloader. Without additional rituals you also cannot boot the rufus written stick *with secure boot enabled* (because said bootloader is not blessed by microsoft just as many Linux distros aren´t). They have to digitally sign that stuff and ain´t nobody got time for that... You can turn secure boot back on after you installed it, sure. It´s not about terminal or no terminal, or EFI or BIOS. DD just raw copies the ISO without any additional steps and that just won´t work for the Windows ISO.
@@CyberGizmo with EFI you don't DD to a USB, you just format it Fat32 and copy the iso files with a loopback mount. There is no bootsector code to retain. The BIOS already has disk and filesystem support to find the bootloader executable.
I'd go for balenaEtcher for writing image files for the same reason - it just works! However I concede I have not tried using it for the specific task you mentioned. Hopefully it works as well as it does for every other OS!
Personally I think wsl (and wslg) should be fair game, same as running wine or proton is, it's part of that platform's overall experience. Of course you'd want to use as much native as possible, try to do something "the windows way" first, but that is one of the major features of win11, bringing over linux and android apps, and one of the reasons many developers are using windows more than they have been since they can natively remote debug through wsl on a single machine without waiting on a full VM to boot.
Interesting also, but if I want a Linux experience I'll just use Linux. I'm not a gamer but I do do development. What I want to find out is whether Windows would make a good workstation to produce these videos and live streams. That's my use case for trialing Windows. Oh, and as far as VMs are concerned, I just leave the ones up all the time I use all the time.
I tend to agree with a lot of what you're saying but it's not an apples to apples comparison when you compare what Luke and Linus tried to test. When it comes down to it Linux's ecosystem is simply too malleable/flexible and therefore easy to break by people trying to adopt the OS as a primary driver. In my honest opinion, linux is an OS for advanced users and there is no way around that. I myself have tried to daily drive linux several times for years and it seems as if every time I reach a point where I finally have the perfect OS customizations and everything is running smoothly, then either some update or package install derails the whole experience.
I have been running Linux on servers forever (almost since the beginning) Desktop not so much and I agree with you Linux on the Desktop is a train wreck (I know I will get hate for this) but its true it s mess and one of the things I point out each year that needs to be addressed.
IIRC. Windows ships with default - get me started drivers which are generic to a selection of devices which Microsoft develop themselves. These can be found by checking Device Manager which shows the drivers and many of these drivers are default Microsoft drivers. For example keyboard, USB ports, display and so on. The OS then updates the drivers to meet the requirements of the device. Windows, Linux or whatever. They are just operating systems, in the end it is the software people run which matters and if the software meets the demands of the user, then they tend not to care about the operating system.
Windows will open things in a strangeish way for what monitor it goes to. The first time you open most programs it will go to the default monitor (that you can select somewhere, I just have never bothered), after that each program will usually open in the monitor that they where last in. And like always there are exceptions. This is the case at least in windows 10, I haven't tried windows 11 going to wait a year for them to work out bugs before I install it.
I'm not sure if they changed it since this video was posted or if anyone has pointed out in the comments, but I don't think WSL makes Linux run overtop of Windows. Iirc, Windows and Linux run in parallel over the same hypervisor. They should have equivalent access to hardware
Early (in the video) note. It's rather unfair to not use WSL. That's kinda like not using WINE/Proton on *nix. I think you gave Windows a better shot than L&L did for *nix when it comes to Hardware. They took what they had and demanded *nix work with it, whereas you picked the best hardware you could for Windows. The analogy I've been using for what Linux has been doing is asphalt race car and rallying: Linus is taking his open-wheel track car to an off-road rally stage, driving it like he's on asphalt and then blaming the rally event organisers for all the damage to his car. - The track car "could" work on the rally stage, but you'd have to drive extremely carefully and patiently, but just chucking it into the corners and flooring the throttle as you approach the apex, catastrophe will follow.
Not really, WSL2 is actually running linux in a VM, other than hardware interface stuff it can run any linux binary the kernel will run. Mingw32 and Cygwin are closer to wine/proton.
Long time Linux user and from time to time I have tried Windows including Windows 11. The biggest issue on my PC is Nvidia. It works fine with the drivers that come with Windows, but any install of Nvida drivers via installer leads to boot to a blank screen no matter what. Also, the constant privacy issue and Windows 11 updates going their own thing makes me stick to my Arch and Ubuntu Linux.
I would say that you are mixing how hard something is with how long it takes (tho I agree that windows wastes a lot of time). They are comparing the experience from the point of view of a normal user (they are still far above the average still). Totally agree on the fact that people project what they know onto the OS (of course that was acknowledged by them on WAN Show). They are not concerned with details on lower levels (your average joe has no clue what SMB/CIFS or NFS are and couldn't care less - it's what I call implementation detail and he just wants to open browser, work on some docs and play some games. That's the point of the series: Verify the UX for this specific workload, not platform features against one another. This perfectly fits with your argument that "windows has bulk of the market" and you have to wait for drivers. This is the exact reason UX on linux needs to get better. More people on platform = more support, since if corporations sniff there is money to be made here, a lot more devs will have their hands in it. There is huge community of enthusiasts that are running iPads as their sole computer. You don't need to iron too many basics to get the "early adopters" in and get the ball rolling. Gamers are the obvious target group as those guys are most often the technical support for their family and are nerdy enough to jump in. As far as I know ssh is now builtin Windows and you just type that into terminal (I sit on mac, so not sure if this was optional OS feature installed, but I doubt that) There might not be focus groups on Linux desktop, but that's not necessary to make good UX. KDE is the primary example how wrong it can get. Linus has goals he tries to achive. He is a "technical" person after all and he knows what he got into. If anything it's being accustomed to creature comforts of Windows not unwillingness to learn. If I can't google something for an hour it's probably not very accessible. I also wouldn't say that not loosing your desktop environment on removal of Steam client should be considered "Windows thing" That's the thing I most often see confused from people - workflow and UX. Linus is willing to learn, but often it's simply not a smooth ride. Part of the reason Windows is better in this area that is the amount of material available online and the fact, that since it hangs onto backwards compatibility for its dear life ,most stuff you'll find online is still up to date and there are not that many contradictions. Learning windows is definitely much smoother process.
No not normal user Linus used the term "tech nerds". I am certainly one of those. The SMB/CIFS comparison is 1) an example of how drivers are supported in Linux and 2) NFS is important to me because it is a critical part of my infrastructure and something I will test since Windows says it can support it. As for support and documents being available online yeah Windows does have that will agree with you. Linux has many sources for information the problem is none of them are official and most of them are opinion ending with "You're doing it wrong, You're on the wrong distro, or RTFM". This unfortunately is our culture and one I am trying to help change.
@@CyberGizmo Linus and Luke aren't doing this to find out how good Linux is or how well it fits their needs. This isn't a 'fair shake' of Linux and it never was. They are role playing a typical PC gamer, not themselves. That means that SMB, SSH, and NFS are irrelevant. Gaming isn't just their focus with this series, its the impetus. It's the entire reason they're doing this. Their Linux Challenge is a misnomer; its better to view it as the Linux Gaming Challenge. Now, you may ask, why are they trying to see how well Linux does at something it's objectively worse at? Why not let Linux be Linux, and use Windows as Windows. The answer is simple: Steam Deck. Valve is pushing _hard_ into making Linux gaming a thing. GabeN has wanted out of the Windows stranglehold from the day he quit working there. The problem is, Linux and manufacturers have not made it easy for him to do so. Proton and the Steam Deck are Valve's Thanos Moment: if companies can't see the value in expanding into Linux and Linux devs can't see the value in bringing over complete computer noobs, so be it, they'll do it themselves. The whole reason Linus and Luke are doing this challenge is to see if right now, as the Steam Deck running Arch-based SteamOS 3 is set to enter the mainstream at $400 for the base model, is a good time for gamers to try out Linux. Call it a surprise audit for the entire Linux community: whatever resources you have available, whatever workarounds you've got working, whatever bugs you've got in your distro, this is the state you're presenting to a vast swath of gamers blown away by the Steam Deck's performance and wanting their own open-source FPS boost during a chip shortage. Linux got caught with its pants down, but Linus and Luke only care about what the experience is, not what it can be or should be.
You should be able to right click on the desktop and select Display settings, then choose which monitor you want to be primary and that's where programs will open. Strangely a few programs will open on the same monitor you closed them on, but not always.
I think you're forcing I mean I've used linux consistently for years after WSL came I switched to windows. And my experience has been smooth as a butter
You're a courageous man + I would say that's not that fair, those 2 guys are complete noobs and not even power users with their own daily OS while you're an expert and have certainly used windows at some point haha.
@@realpainediaz7473 Who talked about geniuses here ? And who talked about being a power user just by using Linux ? The author is obviously an experienced devops person who could adapt to any environment while the 2 others are just regular users who barely touched a terminal emulator in their life, that's why I don't consider it to be "fair".
I will make my mistakes along the way too with Windows, so expert, power user or not, there are always many ways to do things unfortunately the majority of them are wrong.
love the channel, DJ. I started with Windows 3.1 and computers in general in the mid 90s. I stayed with Windows all thru the years. I have 3 desktop computers that I built. All 3 were running Windows until I converted one to a Linux box. I used the pandemic shutdown to go on RU-vid University and learn about Linux. I tried a bunch of different distros in VMs. I found that I tended to prefer Arch and Arch-based distros. Right now I am running Arch and use it as my daily driver. I only use the Windows machines for certain things like photo retouching. I use both Lightroom and Photoshop and am not looking to learn Gimp. I am quite happy using my Linux box as the daily driver. I now wish I had gotten into Linux sooner. Having said that I was quite happy with Windows and never really had any major issues with it. But yeah, Linux really is something special.
So as primarily windows user who has to use GNU/Linux for work, The hiding updates stopped in windows 8 it got a lot better for handling them windows 10 & 11 I never had that problem, "There is no bootable partition" there is, but also EFI does not need a boot sector for removal storage that's also why there is a /efi/boot/bootx64.efi for EFI booting, The Primary screen thing depends on the driver setup by the hardware creator, varies depending on how the hardware is configured E.G dual graphics cards on a laptop. Windows do have a device driver in its default install, bias is showing there :P (jokingly), most common hardware has drivers inside the windows installer (disconnect it from the internet and plug in a USB drive it will work) it's also without a proprietary graphics driver windows support up to 2 monitors, and both of them at 1080p 60hz, and windows does not really have the problem of drivers anymore it used to it has it's own driver database that is huge. Windows update will find and install them on its own the same as using apt to install drivers and it tells you to update. Windows does not manage your fans at all, that's Motherboard's BIOS settings, or you have to use software that talks to the BIOS to control them from within Windows. Just another note drivers in windows can be Kernal or Userspace, just windows have an interface for loading them into the kernel instead of them being built into kernel so it is slower because it's a layer of abstraction but anything using kernel modules drivers are the same as the windows driver model
So a few things. The thermal issue was bad, I'm not sure if it is more MS fault or Lenovo fault for not having the right drivers in Windows Update, Lenovo should however have had the drivers failsafe to run the fans at maximum which is the default the hardware does until a driver tells it to do something else (whether that is a UEFI or OS driver). Your comment about damage already been done, this is actually extremely unlikely, the CPU has a load of instrumentation in it these days, it will downclock itself to try to keep cool and the final poweroff forced halt it'll trigger internally is long before the CPU cores hit the maximum transistor junction temperature. From Intel's website: "It's unlikely that a processor would get damaged from overheating, due to the operational safeguards in place. Processors have two modes of thermal protection, throttling and automatic shutdown. When a core exceeds the set throttle temperature, it will reduce power to maintain a safe temperature level. The throttle temperature can vary by processor and BIOS settings. If the processor is unable to maintain a safe operating temperature through throttling actions, it will automatically shut down to prevent permanent damage." In regards to focus groups, back when Ubuntu Desktop first came out Canonicol did actually do some focus group testing, of course now they have pivoted more to cloud container distribution more than a desktop one, they don't see the advantage in that any more and haven't for a while.
I'll add the following: Technically windows has a shell too, it is a GUI one though, explorer.exe. So the difference is a CLI running on a GUI shell, or a CLI shell running a GUI. You did cover SMB/CIFS is open now, though your said some, I believe it is all since SMB 2.0, of course MS still can wait on publishing changes until they release new implementation in windows. The purpose of WSL is sort of missunderstood, once upon a time MS wanted to get into the cloud computing space creating Azure. While the server hardware are all running a customised variant of Hyper-V, microsoft was using some linux for routers and such. However they envisioned they would mostly be provisioning windows servers, turns out no, most instances launched were linux, now Microsoft doesn't like this, all these developers developing for Azure are not running windows desktops for their development environment, well WSL gives those developers a linux environment for such development. Basically Linux won and MS has had to bend to linux :D they are even members of the Linux Foundation now and have their own linux distribution for developers to use for Azure virtual machines.
I tried. The mandatory Windows updates would shut my laptop down - there seems to be no way to choose the updates I want (only security updates). I typically reboot once in 6 months or more because I have tons of documents and files open all the time and shutting down just spoils my flow of work. Finally, I gave up on Windows. I absolutely need Photoshop and Visio and their GNU alternatives and wine ... let's not talk about those. So I installed Win10 on qemu-kvm. Runs like a champ.
I've only just caught up with this one. Am a bit puzzled around the driver issue. In a general sense, Microsoft in the OS build/ISO - has a lot of drivers. Generally, I'd say that they work - and I am generalising so don't shoot me - they work on a basis of supported hardware/time. If you have a very new machine, and the version is old, that ISO / build will be lacking drivers. If you try to install Windows 7 on a new piece of hardware, you will have to probably go grab some or all from the vendor site. The ones includes in the Windows ISO will likely be generic or vendor supplied, and I suspect they are WHQL. However, if you take a well known machine that is - say 2 years old, and install Win 11 on it, the drivers are most likely to be there. Windows updates - also find, update and install drivers. Part of this can sort itself out after/during the first reboots and initial running of the machine.
Agreed, the problem with this video is it was done just as Windows 11 rolled out, and the machine I was using wasn't completely supported when I made it.
@@CyberGizmo Fair enough. Oddly this state happens with linux too - where if you get really new hardware, you may need to grab a newer Kernel! Living on the bleedin edge ;)
@@AdmV0rl0n if you are lucky it should work, luck being that the linux foundation builds the kernel with the driver support you need and the distro (bleeding edge) adds that kernel to their baseline ... seems so slow in todays world doesn't it?
@@CyberGizmo can be! :) Where I see this most is where AMD release a new GPU and it needs to have an updated kernel to work - anyway! Keeps us on our toes!
A number of years ago I decided to play around with Powershell. So I installed it. In order to run scripts, they need to be signed. In order to sign them, you needed to install some other Microsoft dohicky. Hmmm. Great job, Microsoft. /s
Getting the Windows 11 ISO to work on a thumb drive while using Linux can work, but it's a bit of a pain. You have to mount the ISO with right click "disk image mounter", then copy files over to the USB. Then the format has to be correct, there is a file over 4GB.
re: focus group/end user feedback... I believe the time honoured tradition is to make a bug report against the package you have suggestions or feedback for titled "Wishlist" or "Feature Request". But yeah, user feedback is not normally being actively sought out and evaluated in the *nix ecosystem.
So refreshing to see this. I may be stuck with 11 at work in a bit (after finally getting 10 feeling more like my linux boxes). Curious to see how this turns out. 👍
Windows are going online only jails, as all Companies. 1 to rule all, One world Gov. They all are in on it. Just with the Illusion of freedom and choice.
Lol 😆 it isn't no difence between Wi 10 and 11 from the functionality in win 11. It has only some minor guy tweaks in the modern system settings, task manager, and Windows Explorer, and if you install Windows Power toys in Win 10 is almost everything that windows 11 has the windows 11 file explorer you can get it via windows store
36:50 You're 100% right the only drivers I needed to install on my arch linux (btw) installation on optimus laptop was nvidia drivers I didn't need to install anything other than that
I tried commenting on LTT's Linux video's telling them they need a good year minimum as a noob to start getting to really know Linux. They made some valid points, but they made many mistakes with at times rather unfair experience reporting. I totally agree that time is what's needed and that everyone new and experienced should quit trying to turn Linux into Windows. Thanks DJ for a great video.
28:29 Could please do a video what you mentioned about the UNIX philosophy (especially the importance of using metadata vs the file extension)? 29:14 Could you briefly elaborate more on what you said about the CLI? I think I may have mislearned what CLI is. I assumed every operating system had one.
DJ listening to your comments in the last few minutes I must say open source Linux or BSD is NOT going to disappear anytime soon. Can you imagine the WWW Internet servers running Windows. :) Desktops computers are one thing that may go away, but they are not use like they were in the past because of tablets. Apple and Mac home computer systems were / are based on FreeBSD, also PlayStation consoles are based on FreeBSD. Netflix based on FreeBSD. And being a retired airline pilot (CA) some of the International aircraft I flew used Linux to drive the video passenger briefing and entertainment systems for 300 + passengers which had operate 24 / 7. One more! Supercomputers in China are surpassing America's computing power and the operating system of choice is? Linux. I have used Linux for many years. It's my first choice. It can do it all when you figure it out. It can play many Window games BETTER on Linux. Once ported... :) AMD hardware is Linux capable! And getting better than Nvidia...
DJ Ware, You've missed the point. Linus is not showing Linux as a Windows person, but as a "normie" (and as it happens almost all normies are Windows users). Doesn't Linux community trying to attract that kind of people? Don't you see his frustration trying to use Linux? I see what is Linus doing as an opportunity for Linux - maybe some of the people watching him will actually try to use Linux for a while and maybe even stick to it. You don't use use your computer to play on it but there's a bunch of people that do and for them it's an important part of life. And they expect they could play.
WP for Windows was a mess, its much better to use WP (Dos) in windows. I remember Ami Pro as a word processor, it was a great Windows word processor. I used Windows 2 ( in the late 80s) and it wasn't really usable until 3. Novell really missed the boat with Wordperfect and not having a "native" TCP/IP implementation for clients and server. Spi and Spx were not any good for the"internet" world.
It seems to me that this video has completely missed the point of Linus' video series. Linus' video, as far as I understand, is about the user experience of the average person when they decide to daily drive a Linux environment. The average persons games, watches films/series, and uses office-like programmes; furthermore the average Joe needs a beautiful graphical environment to do any and all operations they need, and expects all peripherals (and main components of the PC) to work when they are connected. The average person will not think "let's install the open source version of X thing" They will not care if the reason their new computer isn't working is because the linux community didn't have the time to write a driver for it. That's absurd (at least from the user perspective). On the other hand, one can't demand anything from the linux community - they're doing it for free (mostly). It's a stalemate. And herein lies one of the problems... I think you can either say "people need to switch to linux, it's not hard", or "you can't demand gaming to work, or your new peripheral to work", but I don't see how you can have both. Unless you expect the average person who barely knows how to turn off a computer, to touch the terminal or even programme, which is just deluded.
@@CyberGizmo He did? Well, in that case, I definitely misunderstood it. A tech nerd is a whole other story, and one does expect a tech nerd to be familiar with a whole lot more (including basics of terminal). At the same time, I would consider myself a bit of a tech nerd; I've been building computers since a very young age, I loved computer programming since I was a teenager and I work in machine learning. It's also not like I haven't seen a terminal before (though I have not daily driven a linux environment yet), and still, the first time I learned that like, "y" is the normal way to confirm "yes" means caution, pay attention, and "yes do as I say" means be extremely careful, you could brick your environment, is after someone commented that on linus' video and I googled it. And I actually ssh into linux servers all the time, to like set up an API for a ML model a client wants, or things. Which sounds bad, but you really need to actualy have something as part of your normal day to really get to know it. All in all, given linus was refering to tech nerds and not the average person, my previous comment is mostly rendered moot. I guess I should have paid better attention.
Personally , I think it's good to have an idea of how other systems work. Now talking about Linus' challenge, is it just me, or does it look like the Linus is making all the wrong moves?
Great Video! DJ you are 100 percent correct on picking and choosing operating systems. While Windows is good for the majority of gaming I can't stand living day to day using the Windows operating system. A Window user has a license to operate not own the system and choose. Over the past two weeks I did one Gentoo OpenRC and two Gentoo Systemd installs on three machines and with success on all three (source code compiling via ssh installs). Systemd being different enough from OpenRC I had to do a lot head scratching because of the differences before I finally figured out with X and XFCE4. On Linux most of the top games use shell scripts to install ( ./install.sh) or use (wine setup.exe) directly in a Linux terminal to install and both to run exe files on those old windoze games install into a wine bottle prefix. Hey those Windows games run great on Linux once you learn how to's! I have Windows 10 but NEVER use it or need it. I am liking Slackware runs good still the most anti systemd Linux system out there.. :) Merry Christmas ALL ! :)
Windows 11 clean install 5 minutes on hp laptop , no drivers where required y installed those from each hardware vendors just to have the most complete 😀,
What nobody points out is how mouse wheel input is handled in linux vs windows. In windows the wheel applies to the active window while on linux it applies to the window you hover your mouse over. This might seem minor, but often enough i have to scroll in a background window and it annoys me every time on windows. Also it allows you to for example with vlc media player, to adjust the volume and timeline on monitor 2 without leaving your active full screen application on monitor 1 as an example.
Correct me if I'm wrong but i just did that in windows... It works with having windows in front and behind and other windows in a sperate display while having a completly Fullscreen app in the main display
its easy to test, have 2 windows with a scrollable area and check when which window reacts to scrollwheel input. and now that i think of it, application 2 might use raw input instead of the wndproc default, bypassing windows.
Actually, it is configurable on both (on linux in most window managers allow configuration) and I have scroll on hover on windows. On windows it is under settings -> devices -> mouse, last option, "Scroll inactive windows when I hover over them". It might have been added since windows 8 or something, I used to do it on windows xp, but that was a hacked install, was running blackbox instead of explorer as shell and stuff.
"without installing WSL" why? that's dumb. windows users use wsl. if linux had LSW linus wouldn't be like "yea i know LSW plays all windows games perfectly but we aren't allowed to use that for this challenge" lol.
Ecko, the thermal drivers did not load up on the install, so what happens to a CPU when it begins to reach its thermal limits? yeah it backs off the clock speed. Which is why it took 3 hours.
Having a view at Windows after so e years in Linux it felt to me that they brought all the advertisment from the browser just right to the desktop. It is still awful the lack of applications using System Package management. Everytime I boot up my old gaming machine (with new RTX graphics) countless Upgrade notifiers poo up. It's awful and always a process about 10-15nin until I can. Just so what I wanted. That's also a reason why I liked SteamDeck and SteamOS so much. Also the taskbar is a concept I easily get so confused. Everywhere are windows and I feel really bloated. MacOS is much better her in user experience. But as you guessed: I love my Linux/GNU whether it's tiled window manager or GNOME I mostly live my my shell with my custom written zsh config.
@@CyberGizmo If the difference is only proprietary and open source, the hardware is mostly proprietary. I think as long as it runs the linux kernel and packed with GNU software, there should not be any difference if it runs on bare metal or a hypervisor. The same for any linux virtual machine, for example, ubuntu on qemu is not linux regardless which platform qemu runs on.
Not quite the only difference. Let me ask you a question if the role was reversed and Linux offered a LSW Linux Subsystem for Windows would you run all of your windows code there?
@@CyberGizmo it's not quite applicable for me, I don't use any windows application. But if it's really the case, I would prefer bare metal for personal machine and virtual machine for server/workstation
Excellent. I look forward to the next month and the frustrations involved :-) The only additional comment I'd make to people is "Do NOT dual-boot". Keep your current system up and running and get a separate machine to install the "other" OS. If, for example you are going Windows > Linux, if you bork the Linux system, then you'll probably upset the Windows system and/or the boot loader. If you haven't got a handle on boot-loaders, and haven't got an image of Windows, you are probably going to be stuffed.
@@CyberGizmo Very true. I'm a firm believer in backups/images, and always adhere to the old adage of "There are two types of computer user, those who have already had a hard drive failure and those that will have a hard drive failure sometime" !!
For servers I am 100% Linux. For me the Linux desktop has too many gremlins, I spend far too much time trying to get things to work, just not viable. The desktop in Windows works right out of the box no issues. Linux needs to get serious about the desktop, or they will never gain more than a niche market share.
Did anyone know you were doing this, or you just did it by yourself ? As LTT promoted it, did you comment in there comments at the time. And you say Linux isn't CLI but majority of things you in through CLI, so your using the command line interface majority of them time. While windows norm users do not. So cant say linux isn't command line interfaced. As if you need to do anything of value you need the command line
I'm going to be looking forward to this. I really appreciate your perspective on everything DJ Ware. Recently I had some issues on a Windows 10 computer that was dual booting with Linux Mint. 1. Performance in Windows suddenly dropped and got all laggy. 2. Even before that the computer started to boot up sometimes and sometimes not. If I turned it off at the power and restarted it, it would go off and GRUB would work fine after all that. I suspect the Magical Windows gods might have been at their update shenanigans again... Welcome back to Windows World.
I have a problem with Windows where if TPM is enabled in UEFI, my videocard, AMD Radeon RX 570, refused to use a driver that installed in Windows and after I reboot a PC I have to re-select the driver to use it. So, I use Windows 11 that I install with TPM switched on and disable the TPM after installation. Now everything works as expected but it still Windows :D
What disturbs me is how many people see the computer as useful for only one thing: gaming. Will future generations only be able to collect frames per second, and know literally nothing more about technology?
Usually you produce interesting content but as a Linux user I found this video wide of the mark spending most of the time bashing Windows and criticising Linus and Luke whist spending little or no time on the challenge
I just came across your video loved the break down. Im sure you know but with qemu/kvm the windows vm performance is very close to bare metal these days especially on modern hardware. Looking forward to seeing the rest of your journey.
it would have been better had you actually documented and demonstrated these things you said you did rather than just regaling us with stories. I didn't find this very convincing or compelling. It has the air of "cool story, bro" as the kids say. I expect more rigor from the Linux community.
Windows is too slow compare to Linux. First days after installation is all nice but then it atart getting slow. Unpack zip need ages, For almost anything you ned drivers. Win11 is horrible.
sorry but even as a first time user to linux if i was presented with a prompt in my terminal that said something like "type yes do what i say" and warns me about a bunch of horrible shit happening, i would probably read what is going on first before proceeding
Yeah, yeah,yeah. Like obviously you're reading every EULA, from the first letter to the last one. He was faced with a wall of white text, list of packages which are meaningless for any new user. How about information that some of those packages are important part of the system?
I have actually encountered that error before on Pop_OS its a bug and when I saw it was trying to uninstall everything in the DE and underlying X-Windows, I said...uhhh nope not gonna do it.
Linus is a spoiled gamer from North America, they are looking at Linux from a gamer’s perspective. They naturally will have problem with their bleeding edge hardware. He does not have idea how Linux and opensource community benefited the poor or those who cannot afford new PC.
what are you talking about? The only unsupported hardware he had was his Go XLR and he already addressed that, he was not upser about it. There were no hardware issues afaik
oh no you should have gone for Windows 10 cause average user doesn't even meet the criteria for Windows 11. Also you are doing it backwards. Since Linus doesn't use command in Windows he as a sample of average Windows user wouldn't use command in Linux you on the other hand probably use command every single day on Linux so you should be using command for everything that you use it on Linux as well and see how that works. That would have been normal experience for average Linux user that has never seen Windows. If you use the same rules as Linus then your experiment is basically pointless and has 0 value because your regular daily use is different therefore your rules should be accordingly adjusted. Another thing when you are talking in the end about immersion the whole experiment idea is to give AVERAGE USER a point of view of what they might be getting into if they decide to go into Linux. Average user won't care in the beginning that Linux works differently they will do things the way they are used to do them on Windows if things don't work they will ditch Linux it's simple as that. Most of users won't even bother with typing a single thing in command probably 99,99% of Windows users don't even know that in Windows you can write commands at all, all they know is clicking I mean most of them don't even know simple shortcuts such as ctrl+c>ctrl+v or ctrl+alt+del and they have been using Windows for years or decades. And god forbid for average windows user to see what Linus got in that terminal or whatever he was using, cause they'll just say "HELL TO THE NO. BYE LINUX FOREVER". That's the reality and that's average user.
Interesting point of view. But why would i expect Windows to be a Linux experience, or are you saying only non-professionals use Windows? Hardly would believe that. I am not trying to win users to Linux, frankly I think that is a decision each person should make on their own.
@@CyberGizmo oh no no that is not what I meant at all. If I said it that way I apologize. All I wanted to point out is the fact that human species in general are reluctant to change and when you come into new environment you are basically overloaded with information that is almost impossible to process. So when an average windows user who only uses keyboard to write a document or chat on facebook and comment tries out Linux he/she will normally try to click like he/she is used to and if that doesn't work they'll try again and maybe they might google to see what the issue is and if they see using commands which to them literally translates to "PROGRAMING" almost all are gonna ditch the thing I am not afraid to guarantee it but there might be some courageous individuals who might even try the command and when they see that "CLUSTERF..." sry on my expression but we need to call it the way it is for average user they will run for the hills. Their entire life they have been only clicking (whatever was happening in the background was far from eye and they didn't care) so typing a command might be just way too technical to the point where they just give up. Tech savvy people are different. We like our comfort zone but we aren't afraid to try and fail or learn new things average people just want the thing to work and do the job and the target group of LTT experiment is average user. Therefore you can't blame average user for not immersing fully into Linux environment.
@@CyberGizmo Also it might be worth mentioning that average windows user when they see a lot of text the only thing they do is scroll to the bottom and click accept or yes they never read anything (I am also included in this category but 80% of the time I know exactly what the text is saying without reading and if I run into problem I know how to fix it) or whatever and if they manage to break which trust me MURPHY they will break Linux, they won't know how to fix it they probably won't even know how to get windows back nothing they will send it to someone who can fix it for them maybe they'll have to pay for it as well and they'll just want to go to windows and will probably shametalk Linux for the rest of their life.
