I worked in Cryogenics while in the Air Force. I have to say that I yelled"what are you doing" when you lit that torch..lol. Got me on that one. Thank you for sharing.
@MykeCollins first, thank you for your service! And yes, my jaw dropped and I was suddenly on the edge of my seat as I thought he was going to use a lit propane torch as the heat source, I should have known better! That was a funny attention grabber, I did not see that coming, I love this channel LOL
Funny, I thought after all the shows I've seen him do... "well I guess he knows what he's doing.....he should probly have some glasses..oh, wait..okay he's joking"
Ya know, I really didn't care at all about how to do this... But I still watched it because your presentation is actually so good? I always have no choice but want to learn what it is you're teaching. Thanks!
I love your sense of humor. When you had your torch in hand I really thought you were serious about heating up that can of propane. You got me LMAO 😂! I have had thoughts about transferring some propane into some of the tanks I own from one of the rental tanks so your tutorial is extremely helpful. Love your videos. Wish I could devote more time to them and hopefully I can in the future. Keep em coming!
I like how you touch on the safety aspect of your projects. This way people attempting this after watching have an idea of how to proceed safely .. please keep doing what your doing !
$6/gal is absurd, but that's the price of the BBQ exchange it seems. For your projects, I would recommend getting a 100 lb DOT cylinder and filling it at your friendly local gas supplier for significantly less money. Then you have access to a dip tube and POL fittings that don't have an excess flow valve built in. For reference, the propane suppliers in my area are selling in bulk at $1.39/gal.
It's $4 a gallon for BBQ exchange at the local gas station, but everything seems to be cheaper in Tennessee. You have to pay up for the first tank though.
Could you turn the supply steel tank upside down? That would leave the vapour at the 'top' (bottom) and drive the liquid out of the valve directly? Great video though!!
1st,I would vacuum pump the CO2 tank & weigh it (for tare weight, or empty wt.) & connect transfer hose to both tanks). 2nd, chill it with cold water or ice. 3rd, heat the supply tank with hot water bath 4th, flip supply tank upside down, then open supply tank valve while it is upside down (so the overfill safety float will open). 5th, place CO2 tank on scale, open it's valve & fill to a Maximum of 80% of the CO2 tanks Liquid capacity (10 lbs, I think you said). Flip & Turn off the supply tank valve & CO2 tank valve & disconnect the hose. Done.
I would just invert the commercial propane tank and leave it in the sun (it can stay straight safely on a flat surface over the metal cylindrical surround where the handle is), and put *my own* empty tank in an ice bath. LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!!! I am an engineer and your ardent subscriber!!
The advantage of not inverting the tank is that you do not get as many impurities out of the tank. Because the fuel evaporates and comes out in vapor for instead of drawing liquid directly you wont get much of the methanol. However if you want the methanol in your tank then this may be a good thing. Depending on supplier you can end up with quite a bit of methanol in a 20lb tank over the years. Easy way to tell, turn it upside down and let just a little out from your hose onto the ground. If it does not evaporate its not propane. I fill my own manchester 1lb tanks with the 20lb upside dowm. and i always check first before filling them so i dont get half a quart of methanol in the little bottle.
Interesting way of transferring propane without inverting the tank or using a compressor. Though if you want to get things done faster, 100lb tanks still have the old-style POL valves and can be inverted to get liquid with no issues. Fun fact, here in Canada it's actually fairly common to heat the propane tank with a much larger tiger torch. When it's approaching -40 and the propane will barely boil, a short blast from the torch will bring the pressure up quick so you can get back to heating things that are frozen. The only real risk is heating the propane enough to pop the relief, which is not going to happen at -40.
Propane makes a good refrigerant as well, I've worked on commercial HVAC equipment for years. Have come across equipment utilizing not only Propane but Ammonia as a refrigerant. Dangerous but effective.
Worked with Ammonia refrigerant at an ice rink once, first thing you learned was how long you could hold your breath and how fast you could put on the Shelly (SCBA) rig
You can do the same in America, but it would be cheaper if you already have containers suited to be used for liquid propane to do it the way this guy did.
$6/gallon?! Daaamn! I work with hot air balloons and last I remember it was around $3. Also, I believe you can flip the bbq tank upside down to get liquid to transfer instead of vapor.
This is a very useful tip. thanks a lot for putting in the time and the effort to spread the knowledge. i am going to use this tip to transfer the propane from a similar type of cylinder to a smaller one that I use with the hand torch. Great Work!!
Although the speed of your growth has been/is astronomical, It's easy to see how you took this channel from zero to over 100k subs in less than a year... anyone who has the ability (might I say, Gift??? Lol) to captivate me enough to get me to not only voluntarily watch an entire 8 minute video about the transferring of propane from one cylinder to another (hahaha, funny to think about it when putv that way), but also come away from it satisfied and much more knowledgeable than before on the subject matter, truly has a gift, and the RU-vid community had better watch out... AvE, he's gunnin for ya, and as much as I love ya, this guy just may end up being my new favorite... lol, bold statement, I know, and having nothing to do with this particular video, this just so happens to be where my thoughts met the keyboard... lol Cheers! Great stuff, TechiNgredients.Dad!
Thanks! I know you're joking, but Ave has nothing to fear from us. Nor do any of the tech channels that produce real and valuable content. However, despite their large head start, there are channels that produce videos only for the sake of producing videos and views rather than the subject matter. You hear excuses rather than solutions and learn little. We're coming ...
I tried the method in this video with transferring 4 gallons of propane using very hot water in a tub on the tank that I wanted to empty and snow on the tank I was transferring the propane to. We had to change out the 5 gallons of hot water 5 times, and keep adding snow to the top of the recieving tank. This method is way better at transferring heat than transferring propane. The process took about an hour. Then for a second partial tank I wanted to transfer, I warmed it up and flipped it upside down before trying to transfer the propane and most of the liquid propane moved to the recieving tank in about 3 minutes. Then I flipped the tank back upright and warmed it with hot water and the remaining propane moved out in about 4 minutes. I recommend warming the tank you want the propane out of with hot water or sunlight and cooling the recieving tank with cold water or snow. Then, connecting the tanks then flipping the hot tank upside down and opening the valve on both. Continue to cool the recieving tank to keep the transfer going. Then when the tank is almost empty, turn it upright and set it in a bucket of hot water to get the last bit of the propane to transfer. When the recieving tank is cold and the giving tank is warm and feels empty when shook the transfer is complete and yo can turn both valves closed and disconnect.
The "attention keeper" with the blow torch was fun. :) I knew from the other videos of yours that you ain't possibly the guy that could even think of such a thing...😂
Cody from Cody's Lab did this same kind of gas transfer with halon in a fire extinguisher, but he used dry ice to get the temperature differential. And you *can* see the level of the liquid in the metal container. You remember you have a thermal camera, right? Great channel, BTW. I am jealous of your lab. I only have a very messy Ikea table with lots of junk on it.
Thanks! I saw that video. The advantage of using the smaller temperature gradient is that it is nearly free. And, if you're patient, it will produce the same transfer only slower. Also, a translucent, fiberglass tank would be better for monitoring the propane level.
HE is correct the vast majority on exchange tanks at a 15 pound net weight. You will usually find this in the fine print. Tare weight is not what you are looking for at an exchange. Net weight is what you are looking for to indicate how much propane is in the cylinder. The good ones will be 20...most are 15.
Thanks for video. On dip tube CO2 tank, would it make sense when finished to invert the tank and verify you get vapor out to be sure you have not overfilled the tank? If liquid, then I would assume, weigh it, assume full then bleed ~20% of weight?
Thanks for explaining this, I bought a second hand JPX T240 jet engine a few weeks back complete with a propane tank and cannot find much on the net on how to transfer liquid propane, I was always wondering if you simply just turned the tank upside down to get liquid across. When I get chance I'll film an engine run on my channel, I have quite a lot of model jet engine test runs on my channel throughout the years Paul
Most of the exchange propane tanks have an anti siphon valve that prevents all flow when inverted. Although you can get tanks designed to allow liquid transfer, there is a big advantage to the more time consuming method I demonstrated. Commercial propane is dirty, it contains other gasses like butane and even water. When it vaporizes, these components can freeze and block lines. By transfering a vapor, you are actually performing a purification step that leaves these low vapor pressure components behind.
More plausible is propane transfer from a 20LB refillable tank (you can refill at UHaul stations and the like cheaper than at the exchange program), to a nonrefillable blue 14oz tall skinny cylinder / 1lb green Coleman fat cylinder. The small cylinder is safe and convenient for local work with a small torch, etc. But it costs too much to use often. So, you can either buy an adapter hose to connect a device made for 14oz cylinder to the 20lb tank, or fill up the 14oz cylinder. To fill it, I placed it in wife's freezer. She did find it there and had to inquire, of course. Then using a relatively cheap transfer hose you need to purchase, invert the 20lb and while the small cylinder is very cold, it will fill up pretty fast. In your situation, I wonder why you have not thought of suspesion-weighing the filling cylinder, from a scale / dial weight gauge. Just put the cylinder in a plastic bag, I suppose if the bag is strong enough and you put it at negligible height above soft surface (in case bag bursts), you might as well fill the plastic bag with cold water! NEVER HEARD of see-thru tank - thanks!
thats how i fill my out of date lpg tank when shop refused to filled it i used a blow torch to heat tank up slowly,just use common sense and will be ok being doing this for 40 years still alive,safety is my number 1 priority
Does this also work with Argon? I Have a 5 litre for tig welding on location and a 20 litre for in the workshop. the filling of the bottles is nearly as expensive for the two. Would be nice to be able to fill up the 5 litre one with the 20 litre one.
No. You can simply transfer the gas between tanks as we do all the time, but unless you have a liquid/vapor phase present at the temperatures you are working with, the effect that temperature will play in the movement of argon is negligible.
Applied thermodynamics! I used to use this trick to charge Freon into my car air conditioner (back when it was legal to do so). Charging liquid was dangerous to the compressor, if I just used a pan of hot water to immerse the Freon can I could charge gas and still be done quickly. That always scared my neighbor, but hot water was not enough to explode a Freon can. I did NOT resort to fire, I see you didn't either.
I would not mess around trying to heat one tank and cool another because, I do not know what I'm doing with trying to transfer gas from one tank to another. I get my tank filled at the commercial location where they have a multiple 1000 or more propane tank for transfer and they pump it into my little propane tank. Thanks for the video it was interesting.
forklift cylinders use a liquid out on the service valve. you can get them in aluminum. Most DOT cylinders have a tare weight stamped on the collar which makes it easy to determine how much liquid you have in the tank. typical bbq cylinders are called 20 lbs cylinders. propane liquid weighs 4.2 lbs per gallon. Propane cylinders are filled to 85% of their capacity, this is for expansion. 85% of 5 gallons =4.25 gallons x 4.2=17.85 lbs of propane when 20 lb cylinder is full minus the weight of the empty tank. to check how many gallons of liquid propane is in any cylinder find it's tare weight on the collar. It'll say something like 5.6 TARE. This means the cylinder weighs 5.6 lbs. when totally empty. lets say your cylinder weighs 16 lbs. subtract 5.6 (tare weight) from the scale reading of 16 lbs=10.4 divide this by 4.25 lbs per gallon of propane=2.45 gallons of propane left in your 20 lb. bbq cylinder. BTW propane is NOT considered a high pressure gas, such as compressed oxygen, argon etc. Tank pressures on any propane vessel no matter its size will only be around 90 psi on a mild summer day and around 110-120 psi if the tank has been sitting outside even in the sun. Propane liguid expands when it warms up. How do I know this? I worked i the propane industry for 15 years. Don't paint your propane tanks flat black or any dark color, there's a reason they're all white or silver.
While I've never tried this, I've worked in the LPG (propane) industry for a few years. 1. For calculating volume, I believe it weighs 0.5kg per litre, but double check that. It's lighter than water, so don't assume 1kg = 1L! 2. Never fill above 80% capacity (as mentioned in the video), and ideally use another gas container that has a calibrated relief valve for safety. Overfilling these things is easy to do, and can have horrific results (pressure increases in the destination container when the water is turned off and temperature inevitably increases). NB: Just a thought - maybe turning the source container upside down would help accelerate the process? As that way you have liquid pouring directly out of the valve instead of vapour. Some countries have valves to prevent that, the US may be one of them but I'm not sure as I don't live there.
Many of the newer tanks in the US also have these anti siphon float valves. Another advantage of the slower vapor transfer method is that it acts as a purification step, leaving debris, water and low volatility oils behind.
Use refrigerant recovery machine to transfer propane. Propane is just like any other refrigerants, actually, there are some medical equipment that use a blend of propane and some other gases as refrigerant.
Don't know if you care at this point. But two things: 1.) You can get liquid service from a forklift cylinder. 2.) You can get propane a LOT cheaper by the gallon. Tractor Supply and Costco both will sell for not even half of what you quoted.
My dad converted an old pickup to propane in the early 90's. We had a fueling station you could just drive into to tank up. He would drive for months on a 150 gallon tank for like 50 bucks. It was like 35 cents a gallon. Why did it increase in price so rapidly compared to other fuels?
It didn't, the exchange programs are a great way to rip people off. I used to work for Tractor Supply and they sell propane marked up a few cents a gallon and they fill whatever you bring that's legal. I would suggest getting cylinders filled rather than exchanging them simply because of the cost.
Yep. It's a riff on the bottled water scam basically. I've never done an exchange thing. I've always just gone to the local propane place, and filled it up. They have trucks that go to people's house's too, and fill up the big tanks people have outside their homes. Ain't no natural gas lines out in the boonies, ya'll.
Small cylinders are expensive per kilo, but the bigger ones are a lot cheaper. I just use 9kg cylinders, as they are a convenient size to handle, and made a transfer tube out of 2 of the flex hoses used to connect them to manifolds. A simple adaptor from the 9kg bullnose to the small cylinder thread ( off the shelf at the gas supply place as well) and just turn the big cylinder on it's side to get faster fill, then turn upright for the last half kilo or so of gas to clear the liquid out of the pipes. Helps here that the LPG price is regulated on the big cylinders, but not on the small ones, so instead of paying almost the price of the 9kg for a 3kg refill I get 2 out of the big one, and then use the rest as usual. Could also use 14 or 19kg cylinders, but they are inconvenient to move. As well the price rose rapidly because of demand, LPG used to be a low use item, most refineries would use it as process heat internally, selling off a little at a loss for gas, or flaring it off. Then they started using it as feedstock for plastic production, and demand rose rapidly, so the price for the gas rose, and refineries started making money off it, plus people moved away from heavy fuel oil heaters to gas heaters.
Lol... you had me fooled for a bit when you pulled the blowtorch. This is a pretty good method, actually. Gentle temperature gradients removed from actual flames are very good for a number of processes. That said, This liquid propane system needs a moisture trap. Liquid propane isn't used more often specifically because of the trouble in keeping moisture and humidity out of those systems and the troubles that they can cause. A propane gas system freezes the water into place at the top of the liquid/gas interface, but the pressure gradient between gas and liquid stops the moisture from forming a solid plug. A riser tube, such as is used in most liquid delivery systems, does not have this advantage. If a riser tube freezes, a solid plug can be a serious problem. This is actually why NASA has stopped using liquid propane in many systems. If you're using a liquid propane system, you have to account for the differences in the "Dryness" of the propane because commercial suppliers catering to residential consumers, do not account for this difference. In fact, doing so would cut into their underlying profit margin because it would be an extra step in processing and storing said propane. Using an adsorbent, like silica gel, is a pretty cheap and easy means of compensating for the lack of "Dryness" in the commercial source. The only issue with doing so is an exposure time required for most adsorbents to remove a percentage of water from the propane, but increasing the length of tubing filled with adsorbent should be sufficient. Also... note: absorbent =/= adsorbent. two distinct things... just so i'm clear on that....
I do transfers all the time, I just turn the full cylinder upside down and it transfers liquid, just vent the filling tank via its bleed valve. No water or heating
After 18 years with the same supplier, I switched to AmeriGas. Got a nice new shiney 250 gallon tank and hopefully what will be less expensive propane. The price of propane has become a somewhat expensive locally. Digging out my transfer apparatus, too. Even the small Coleman bottles have been running about $5 each, they can be refilled for much less.
Thank you so much for your very very nifty knowledge! I love sharing your videos with my teenagers. I'm wondering if I could get a downloaded copy of your brain? (JK). I second what many others have said, in complete agreement with them, your channel is highly underrated. You obviously have worked incredibly hard at acquiring and mastering STEM -- well done! 🙌🙌😄
For the seals on the joiners, is there any preference between NBR and Neoprene? And what is the best Shore hardness of both types? I know Neoprene is often used in refrigeration, but NBR is also rated for LPG use.
In India they have propane tanks that have a exit hole on top, so you can join two tanks one on top of the other upside down and they have a 10 inch pipe you put between them. So the propane will transfer from the top tank to the bottom tank, without any heating or pumping. This way poor people can share Propane between neighbors.
lol, I think you got everybody's attention when you fired up that map gas tank pretending like you were really going to use it. Yep, jokes on us.. Thxs for sharing!
You said the propane tank was designed to boil the liquid off rather than supply the liquid , isn't it just relying on vapour pressure sitting above liquid to output the gas with a high pick up ? If the tank is turned upside down would the propane tank still emit gas and be operational ?
Several of the hardware stores 'round here (flatlands of NH) refill 20lb tanks for ~$11 (vs. $19.95 for the big box store exchange stuff), and the guys I know don't check anything, if they know you. And, yes, if you can get a forklift tank cheap, those usually have the dual exit for liquid or gas.
Since your video about hybrid jet I'm thinking about fueling it with some form of oil (filtered used vegetable oil etc). I know it will not be as easy as with propane, but what do you think about that?
We're going to try several fuels with the new jet including isopropyl alcohol, gasoline and diesel. If the diesel works then the oil should have a chance.
I refill the small camping bottles from commercial cylinders, with the little adapter they sell at Harbor Freight, never had any issue with the anti-siphon device. Maybe I'm just lucky.
@@kengamble8595 Do you freeze the green canisters or just invert the source tank? I've seen where they say you need to freeze the green tank to be able to get them to full. Likely similar to the temperature difference required to make it transfer he was talking about. It looks like it would be much easier to do the 100 degree water bath than find space for 5-10 green canisters. Then, the biggest thing would be calculating the 80% full weight.
I really enjoy watching your videos. Quick correction, you are trans filling into a 20# CO2 tank, not a 10#, as mentioned at the tail end of your video. Keep sharing your experiments.
I’ve worked with LP for over 20 years and evacuated many tanks in my career. Just invert the tank and for transfer without a pressure differential, lift the source tank over the tank you’re filling. We build “Gravity fill stations” that work this way. Of course it should be noted that it’s illegal to fill a cylinder with a product that it’s not rated to hold. Plus DOT cylinders are only good for 12 years after manufacture date and must be requalified after. Be safe out there, guys.
would the hot water bath also work as a good method for refilling the coleman canisters and getting an easy full fill without having to put the green coleman canisters into the freezer to try to create the temperature difference that many say is required to fill the green canisters better but still isn't quite perfect?
Need a siphon? uhh, no. I transfer liquid out of a 20# OPD tank all the time. just flip it upside down. you only need a couple degreess of delta T between containers to push a whole tank easily. I also have CO2 tanks and transfill from them into paintball tanks, etc... same thing. doesn't take much.
Is there a reason not to use forklift liquid withdrawal LP tanks? Fittings are readily available as are tanks which are normally stainless and quite rugged. Does an inverted BBQ cylinder not produce sufficient flow? If so the 40lb LP cylinders do not have OPD valves and flow many more CFM (welders commonly use those and the 100lb LP cylinders for cutting torch fuel) and like any cylinder are simple to invert for specialty use for example on a modified hand truck.
That is an option if you have convenient access to those cylinders. Flow rate isn't important, but many of these 20 lb cylinders incorporate an inversion check valve, and this thermal method overcomes that.
i actually thought you were serious about using the map blow torch,,silly me,,must have been your great acting skills with the serious look and voice,i was like wait is he serious?
Ok so that CO2 tank is not designed for propane in that the relief is a burst disk where as a the propane tank has a spring relief that will shut off once it relieves in an over pressure situation. The burst disk goes and it dump the whole contents. Probably a bit more dangerous. They actually make a liquid withdrawal tank if you need to use liquid.
lol, I was sitting there and like halfway through I was like wait, didnt I just watch cody do this. I actually think its cool to come from different source because not only do you get people like us getting a little quiz to prove you knew it, but also you get a confirmation that this works with multiple things, multiple ways.
Well, he was outside and frankly in terms of halon the point is it's no longer in mass production, that was the dangerous bit. Old extinguishers and sprays are lying around leaking halon all the time but we've pretty much stopped production of any new halon that would find its way into the atmosphere. The danger there was the possibility of explosion (which would probably just punch a hole in one of the tubes or valves and not the tank itself) He's done MUCH more dangerous stuff than that (like handling supercritical CO2 in a vial which he sealed himself)
so it is impractical to try to heat a 500 gallon supply tank, ambient temp are in the mid 60's F. Water temp for cooling are near 50. I'll be trying to fill a 60 gallon rv mounted tank via the acme fill connector. I don't have easy access to vapor but do have easy access to liquid, will this method work w/o other equipment?
You can transfer even with a 10 degree differential ( it may be easier at night), but it will be very slow if you do it like I did, as a vapor. Liquid transfer will be much faster, but you'll loose the phase transition purification advantage.
No. Most modern propane tanks have an anti-siphon float valve that stops all flow, liquid and gas, when the tank is inverted. One exception is the propane tank used on vehicles such as fork lifts.
@@TechIngredients Interesting. I just watched a video of a guy inverting a 20 lb tank to illegally fill disposable 1 lb tanks. It seemed to work fine. Maybe it was the magic of RU-vid. From what I know on the float, it floats UP on an upright tank to stop the overfilling of the tank. When the tank is inverted, the float would float up, which would be down if the tank was upright and allow propane liquid out. I guess you could use a 100 lb tank which is not subject to the government mandated valves.
Propane has a vapor pressure of 227.8 psi at 120° F and 85 psi at 55°F without the ethyl mercaptan odorant. It's used as a refrigerant in many cold vending machines. I'm not sure what effect, if any the mercaptan has on the pressure temperature relationship. Also the exchange tanks are only filled to 15 lbs of propane.
Hello, i have a burning question: wat if you put the propane tank upsidedown then you should get to transfer liquid propane, right? I am no expert! Greetings,, Kitty.
Many, although not all of these smaller tanks are constructed with "anti-siphon" valves that stop all flow when inverted. These tanks are becoming more prevalent.
