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Lithium-ion Battery Fires: Full Charge vs. Low Charge 

StacheD Training
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In this intriguing video, I delve into the fascinating world of lithium-ion batteries and explore the critical concept of "State of Charge" (SOC). Join me as I uncover the mysteries behind how the amount of charge in a lithium-ion battery directly influences the intensity of its failures.
Lithium-ion batteries have revolutionized the way we power our devices and vehicles, but understanding their behavior is crucial to ensuring safety and efficiency. I'll discuss the relationship between SOC and battery failures, revealing why higher charge levels can lead to more energetic and potentially hazardous malfunctions.

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20 июл 2023

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Комментарии : 74   
@toothless01
@toothless01 8 месяцев назад
That’s exactly why I store my lipo batteries in a metal fire box with a storage charge on them and I cycle them once a month. Most of mine are 2 - 3 cell lipos for RC vehicles. Great information,thank you.
@sigataros
@sigataros 2 месяца назад
pretty sure li-ion batteries do not need to be cycled, older chemistries like nicd and nimh need to be cycled to stay maintained from shelf life, self discharge and crystal growth, but li-ion batteries don't have any memory effect or significant self discharge to need cycling except if they aren't used for years on end, 1 cycle every year should be plenty, also if you keep all your batteries in one box, then you will loose all of them if one of them shorts and it will likely be more dangerous
@nielsdaemen
@nielsdaemen Месяц назад
Why cycle them once a month? I left a lipo at storage voltage for 3 years and it only went down by 0.04 V The self discharge is negligible
@phillyphil1513
@phillyphil1513 Год назад
great illustration Cap-D 👍this is the kind of "granular information" the public needs on Lion battery safety that we're NOT getting. i've been studying/following Lion fires for now for 16 years and i have YET to hear any experts address this particular issue (which in hindsight would seem rather obvious to do).
@BradGryphonn
@BradGryphonn 8 месяцев назад
Okay, this is the third video in a row that I've watched of yours, right after John Cadogan recommended your channel. I subscribed on the first but now fear I'm going to dive deep into the Lithium battery rabbit-hole and end up down-trading my 12-volt LiPOs to AGMs again ... or not. However, I have gained a far deeper respect for caring for and maintaining all my LiPOs, from 18650s to the 129A/H 12-volts. One saving grace is that I have a V6 petrol shitbox Ford Courier, so an EV fire won't ever happen for me...unless some Tesla driver in hands-free mode t-bones me.
@sigataros
@sigataros 2 месяца назад
you assume all lithium batteries are the same, but in most car battery sized lithium batteries, the common chemistry is lifepo4 which is durable, safe and does the job better than lead acid with no downsides
@harrymoto6951
@harrymoto6951 6 месяцев назад
Great content, clear, even obvious. You know it's good material when you immediately wonder why you haven't seen it before. Thanks, liked, subscribed!👍✌
@StacheDTraining
@StacheDTraining 6 месяцев назад
Glad you enjoyed it!
@jamesrader3329
@jamesrader3329 2 дня назад
Been enjoying the videos you've been doing on these EV's. Great info.
@davedownunder8057
@davedownunder8057 8 месяцев назад
Another new viewer from John cadogan
@TheCosmic64
@TheCosmic64 8 месяцев назад
Ive been studying and learning a-lot from your videos….Great info on how these batteries work …
@Dkrpan59
@Dkrpan59 22 дня назад
Thank you very much
@LasheXX
@LasheXX Год назад
Informative video,thanks.
@sergiuu280
@sergiuu280 Год назад
great videos .
@simonbroddle754
@simonbroddle754 8 месяцев назад
Great video's thank you. I don't have an EV but I do use Lithium battery banks like Jackery for example. While much smaller I believe these may present a similar risk and how would their explosive characteristics alter from an EV? Many thanks,
@VinniePepperoni
@VinniePepperoni 2 месяца назад
As a home owner and life long handyman, I’m considering making a dedicated portable vented metal firebox to keep all my power tool batteries inside this device for peace of mind, not sure on leaving it outside the home but the desert heat might not be good for them but man these things are terrifying. Ive tested old cell phone batteries myself with a puncture and boy what a rocket engine it was. I dont feel comfy with any of these batteries within 30ft of my home
@pablogarciaalvarez6222
@pablogarciaalvarez6222 5 месяцев назад
Great video! What was the SOC percentage of the low charged battery ? Many thanks
@StacheDTraining
@StacheDTraining 5 месяцев назад
Most standards requires batteries to be under 30% SOC for shipping. One thing to note. The SOC that your device shows, likely is not the SOC of the battery.
@CFRoach
@CFRoach 7 месяцев назад
I've have a rhetorical question and a actual question: Why are you allowed to park and charge an electric car in an attached garage when according to a German study they are four times more likely to burst into flames as opposed to a gas powered vehicle and why do American studies contradict the German findings. We all pay a couple hundred dollars more for water heaters now that have an enclosed combustion chamber so they do not to ignite Gasoline fumes in garages because people were dying every year. This is my first time watching any of your videos and I'm assuming you're a firefighter based on your knowledge of fires and your mustache. Besides only parking and charging electric vehicles outside of an attached garage, can you think of a solution to charge and store these vehicles In an attached garage without danger to human life?
@maxheadman59
@maxheadman59 3 месяца назад
The American studies you're looking at are probably secretly funded and published by 3rd parties are working in the interests of American auto manufacturers to skew public perception of electric vehicles. I wouldn't place much weight on statistics and supposed studies published out of the US, especially consider that Europe has been a number of common American foods, ingredients and food production methods citing health risks. We are not a healthy nor honest country.
@beanapprentice1687
@beanapprentice1687 2 месяца назад
Well, that German study is dead wrong. It has been proven that EVs are 10x _less_ likely to catch fire compared to gas powered vehicles.
@certeric33
@certeric33 7 месяцев назад
Is it OK that I can use some of your videos about EV fires for training in our department.
@goonies_never_say_die
@goonies_never_say_die Год назад
It would be good to understand why and how the state of charge affects the failure or ignition. For instance, is the pressure higher within the cells and do the concentrations of flammable gases vary proportional to the state of charge?
@StacheDTraining
@StacheDTraining Год назад
It's at a higher energy level. Very similar to the example using air pressure. It's not pressure, but rearranging electrons to be in a less stable position.
@pietpompiepompiepiet940
@pietpompiepompiepiet940 11 месяцев назад
​@@StacheDTrainingthanks for video, i always leave all lithium products at empty or flat charge state at home when I travel but this video explained alot. NiHm batteries are they safer
@averyalexander2303
@averyalexander2303 11 месяцев назад
@@pietpompiepompiepiet940 Be careful with leaving them totally discharged, that can cause damage to the battery over time. Also, over discharging a lithium ion battery, which shouldn't be possible thanks to the BMS, can also cause instability. Your best bet is to store your batteries somewhere cool and dry and inside a closed box specifically designed for battery charging and storage to contain the fire/explosion just in case something goes wrong. And the further away from combustible materials you can keep the storage box, the better off you will be.
@pietpompiepompiepiet940
@pietpompiepompiepiet940 11 месяцев назад
@@averyalexander2303 thanks for advise
@andyowens5494
@andyowens5494 7 месяцев назад
@@StacheDTrainingIts not so much "rearranging the electrons" (that would be a capacitor), but changing the chemical composition in the battery - its "chemical potential energy". In the charged state the chemicals are more likely to decompose rapidly, releasing that energy as they revert to the lower energy state composition. They normally do that in a controlled fashion through the electrolyte, but stick a nail through it, and the electrical energy release is sufficient to start the process in an uncontrolled manner AND MORE; rather than liquid state chemical changes, the excess heat triggers new chemical reactions, like releasing hydrogen and oxygen )not a good mix in the presence of electrical sparks or other intense heat sources).
@ffjsb
@ffjsb Год назад
Good video, but does the SIZE of the battery also have an effect?? A Tesla battery and an RC car battery at thirty per cent each would still be significantly different no??
@StacheDTraining
@StacheDTraining Год назад
The size would as well. The more energy a cell can store, the more energy that can be released.
@juliogonzo2718
@juliogonzo2718 11 месяцев назад
Generally different battery chemistry types as well. Rc car batteries are Lipo batteries generally, which imo are much more fragile and susceptible to damage. If you had the same weight of cylindrical cells as Lipo pouches in an array, I would be more nervous of the Lipo
@StacheDTraining
@StacheDTraining 11 месяцев назад
@@juliogonzo2718 exactly, there are many pieces to the puzzle.
@brpawankumariyengar4227
@brpawankumariyengar4227 7 месяцев назад
OMG …. What about phones and laptops we use ??? They are also charged to 100% ….. Should we avoid that ?
@StacheDTraining
@StacheDTraining 7 месяцев назад
A cell phone has about 14Wh of power. An EV has 50,000 - 100,000Wh of power. It's like comparing grabbing a down power line vs. sticking your tongue on a 9v battery.
@jbhann
@jbhann 2 месяца назад
@@StacheDTraining…depends on the environment. For example, say a person is on a sailboat and has a battery ignite on the cabin cushions while the person is outside tending to the lines. Guessing it wouldn’t take but less than a minute before that cabin is engulfed in flames. Or people who their devices next to their beds while sleeping, and something sets the battery off.
@KatieT-di6ze
@KatieT-di6ze 2 месяца назад
Does this mean if the battery is at 0% there would be no chance of thermal runaway?
@beanapprentice1687
@beanapprentice1687 2 месяца назад
Correct, because thermal runaway is caused by the battery being internally shorted and sending high amounts of current through itself. If there is no charge left in the battery, it cannot create current. However, a dead lithium-ion battery still contains flammable electrolyte which can be ignited by an external heat source, but it can be put out of water is used to remove the heat.
@robertdolan5154
@robertdolan5154 8 месяцев назад
Ps the electric car/ hybrid car need A special license plate on front and rear. So Firefighters KNOW WHAT TYPE OF CAR THEY ARE WORKING ON. ITS THERE LIFE THAT IS AT RISK 😢
@illiahapak501
@illiahapak501 7 месяцев назад
That's right, some countries already introduced special license plates for EVs, usually there are of green color.
@Inkling777
@Inkling777 5 месяцев назад
Agreed. Perhaps it could be modeled on the hazardous waste markers for semis. Those need to change. This could be a permanent attachment at a specific location.
@unclej3910
@unclej3910 5 месяцев назад
Thanks for the video. My question is why do the EVangelists claim that ICE vehicles catch on fire 90% more frequently than EV’s, and that the fires are more intense than an EV fire?
@beanapprentice1687
@beanapprentice1687 2 месяца назад
No EV advocate claims that gas car fires are more intense than EV fires. But it has been proven that EVs catch fire 10x less often than gas cars. You just need to compare the amount of fires per million kilometers for gas cars to the amount of fires per million kilometers for electric cars, and you’ll see the number is far higher for gas cars.
@xnetc9
@xnetc9 2 месяца назад
I am going to keep my phone at 30% max charge from now on.
@yosealdo1
@yosealdo1 Год назад
The question is : how to drain the energy from batteries which already on fire and going to explode, in order to minimize the impact ??
@ffjsb
@ffjsb Год назад
You're pretty much screwed at that point. You can only drain power so fast, and where are you going to drain it to?? It's not like letting the air out of a tire.
@StacheDTraining
@StacheDTraining Год назад
If the cell is on fire, energy is already being drained. I'll do a video in the future on draining stranded energy in damaged cells.
@beanapprentice1687
@beanapprentice1687 2 месяца назад
⁠@@ffjsb we could mandate that all EVs are equipped with a series of power resistors that quickly drain the functioning battery modules when a fire is detected in any malfunctioning module. But that would add extra cost to already costly vehicles.
@ffjsb
@ffjsb 2 месяца назад
@@beanapprentice1687 That's not what resistors do... And the concept is impractical anyway.
@beanapprentice1687
@beanapprentice1687 2 месяца назад
@@ffjsb of course that’s what resistors do. A resistor is a conductive device that allows current to flow through it, dissipating energy as heat in the process.
@G1ZQCArtwork
@G1ZQCArtwork 10 месяцев назад
I fully agree, but it is Battery not Baddery!
@StacheDTraining
@StacheDTraining 10 месяцев назад
But things get really bad when they fail.
@G1ZQCArtwork
@G1ZQCArtwork 10 месяцев назад
Haha...@@StacheDTraining
@G1ZQCArtwork
@G1ZQCArtwork 10 месяцев назад
Sorry but my Surname is Potter, and some from other countries either call me Podder or Porter, neither of which I respond to.@@StacheDTraining
@malcolmwhite6588
@malcolmwhite6588 6 месяцев назад
@@G1ZQCArtwork In the oil and gas industry where I work if you were that precious about The dialect concerning the pronunciation of your name we would just call you princess and we will give you shit until you responded!😂😮
@G1ZQCArtwork
@G1ZQCArtwork 6 месяцев назад
Once a fool, always a fool, do you always insult people this way.?@@malcolmwhite6588
@stevedangerous1
@stevedangerous1 8 месяцев назад
I run, on the fuel of Satan....year 2000 Td5 Defender....it hasnt burned down yet! HYDROGEN...YAY!
@-Gunnarsson-
@-Gunnarsson- 27 дней назад
And EU think its a good idea everbody should own an EV. If it spontaneously combust on the highway. You loose the power steering/brakes and most likely your life.. A full tank of gas is more stable than an army of lithium cells 😂
@D.Bunker
@D.Bunker 5 месяцев назад
*So, what you are saying is that Lithium-ion Batteries are COMPLETELY USELESS !!! No one would EVER buy a product that ONLY works "safely" on a 20% charge !!!*
@beanapprentice1687
@beanapprentice1687 2 месяца назад
Lithium-ion batteries are _far_ from completely useless. Almost every single mobile phone, laptop, wireless earbud, power bank, e-reader, and much else, has a lithium ion battery in it. How can you conclude that lithium ion batteries are useless, given this information?
@KvShashank
@KvShashank Месяц назад
So the electronic device that you are watching the video on which uses a lithium battery is completely useless?
@walldoo99
@walldoo99 7 месяцев назад
Ask the occupant? I wouldn't ask them anything till they stopped being the occupant. I'd tell them to get out of the car, it's on fire.
@mikedickinson9730
@mikedickinson9730 8 месяцев назад
I can’t stand the whole electric car fad. It’s just that, a fad. No one is saving the environment with electric vehicles. It will be interesting to see what happens when 50% of the vehicles on the road are electric. A lot more hazards in my opinion.
@happyrecluse2849
@happyrecluse2849 7 месяцев назад
When you start to dig into the ev thing s I have I fail to understand how anyone would think there is any value to the enviorment deal. Checkout Replacing batteries, warranty, insurance, charging viability as residential applications, plus, and etc. Truly think this is a fad and lots need to be debugged going forward. Which for most would be an expensive journey. Course if you have duffel bags stuffed with cash laying around and wish to become a self imposed guinea pig, have at her..
@beanapprentice1687
@beanapprentice1687 2 месяца назад
⁠@@happyrecluse2849 replacing batteries? That almost never happens, but when one such incident does happen, the mass media is sure to report it hundreds of times over so that the readers are tricked into thinking that it’s a regular occurrence. But when an engine in a gas car fails and needs replacing, you almost never hear about it with much drama.
@beanapprentice1687
@beanapprentice1687 2 месяца назад
Yea, it’s definitely a fad… that explains why exponentially more and more electric cars have been purchased over the last 20 years.
@findloveandkindness8614
@findloveandkindness8614 Месяц назад
$KULR -> problem solved
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