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Live Breakdown - S2E5 House of the Dragon - the AfterMath 

David Lightbringer
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Breaking down the entire episode, with unspoiled enthusiasm, plenty of polls for the live chat, and all your questions answered - with ‪@girlnettles‬ and ‪@herowithathousandvoices‬ a.k.a. Sean MacArthur!
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21 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 461   
@snekthatmaybeadragon
@snekthatmaybeadragon Месяц назад
Cole's reaction to dragon warfare reminded me of how the European battlefield changed with the introduction of cannons in the Middle Ages.. the shift in the scale of destruction that could be wrought so swiftly. A dragon is the living embodiment of that devastation in the field.
@julieloucalcote1368
@julieloucalcote1368 Месяц назад
Coles shellshocked for sure.
@MCrvngraddip2013
@MCrvngraddip2013 Месяц назад
Great point. And then in WW1 when Mustard gas was used.
@wafflingmean4477
@wafflingmean4477 Месяц назад
Yeah it reminded me of how WW1 changed things so much and people at the beginning of the war genuinely didn't know the level of destruction modern (for the time) technology could unleash. Some armies tried to use cavalry in WW1. Against machine guns. Really shows that they just had no idea what they were up against.
@canadianravenbrook
@canadianravenbrook Месяц назад
This!
@GrayArea
@GrayArea Месяц назад
Awwwww Nettles!!!! Thank you so much❤❤❤ Thanks y’all!
@DavidLightbringer
@DavidLightbringer Месяц назад
haha trying to sell them shirts ❤️🐐
@obviouslyPSM
@obviouslyPSM Месяц назад
Great to see ya here Gray. Nice to see the merch gettin some shine ✨ 🐉
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
Tee hee hee I couldn’t resist
@andrejmarin1907
@andrejmarin1907 Месяц назад
Aegon should have just clocked in for his kingly duties, done the bare minimum, and then clocked out. Afterward, he could spend his days hanging out with Sunfire.
@andrewf6111
@andrewf6111 Месяц назад
Yeahhh, but how many sons are clones of their fathers, through adolescence? Lol, we could only hope.
@juneack5848
@juneack5848 Месяц назад
How do you know there will be an afterwards?
@canadianravenbrook
@canadianravenbrook Месяц назад
Yeah 😢
@mariesueme8807
@mariesueme8807 Месяц назад
I think sleeeping on the weirwood bed gives you dreams and makes you sleep walk, but the Leaf tea makes you hallucinate while awake.
@alyswesthill3562
@alyswesthill3562 Месяц назад
"It's just meat," Hugh's line when looking at Meleys's head, is so so so important.
@eldric.stoneskin
@eldric.stoneskin Месяц назад
Interesting that both Daemon and Jamie dream of their mothers in Weirwood dreams, seems to be a strong connection between the Weirwoods and Mothers The Weirwoods even symbolise mothers cradling both Bran and Bloodraven in the main series too More of that Womb and Tomb symbolism
@canadianravenbrook
@canadianravenbrook Месяц назад
Loving this. Full circle. Very Game of Thrones / King Lear.
@jorahtheexplorer3262
@jorahtheexplorer3262 Месяц назад
Daemon's major advantage in not being seen as a horrible person is 100% because he's played by Charisma personified Matt Smith.
@92sentrell
@92sentrell Месяц назад
Unpopular opinion but I don't like Daemon at all I don't find him charismatic at all. Which is funny because I find Matt Smith very charming and charismatic 😅
@julieloucalcote1368
@julieloucalcote1368 Месяц назад
Yes! I love Matt and that has transferred to Daemon.
@emilypennington6354
@emilypennington6354 Месяц назад
I adore Matt Smith as Daemon ❤
@twistedelegance_
@twistedelegance_ Месяц назад
Tbh I think they somehow managed to make all them look like hobgoblins, even though the actors are very attractive in real life. I don't like any of them.
@92sentrell
@92sentrell Месяц назад
@@twistedelegance_ ikr it must be the wigs 😆
@buffysummers7887
@buffysummers7887 Месяц назад
Daemon & Viserys consistently choosing (different but longstanding) behavioral patterns because they feel abandoned by the death of their mother FINALLY CONFIRMED.
@bloodyneptune
@bloodyneptune Месяц назад
Also, can you imagine the raven shes going to get from the guy she sent to check on Daemon "Uuuh, he's talking to soup..."
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
Ahahahahahahaaha
@jessjess23brooks89
@jessjess23brooks89 Месяц назад
😂😆 omg I would love a scene from Broom's pov where its just Daemon wandering around and drooling for hours. "Our side is super fucked."
@taytayqueen7024
@taytayqueen7024 Месяц назад
I know it’s a bit much but the image of Meleys running daemon away terrified is reallly funny to me 😂😂😂
@notribadsvault
@notribadsvault Месяц назад
I think part of Daemon’s ark is going to be him realizing that Otto was right about him making a bad king. That look on his face when being confronted by the River lords gave me that impression
@cardboard2night
@cardboard2night Месяц назад
Oh no, not the consequences of his actions! He was having so much fun reaping, but now he has to saw! 😂 Also, Blackwoods displaying Targarien's sigil while doing war crimes 😬 they were so proud like "yeah! look what we did! fuck Brackens! queen approves" 😎
@jonhauge-evaldsson783
@jonhauge-evaldsson783 Месяц назад
There is a character development possibility! That could be why he does what he does in the books! A final redemption!
@jessjess23brooks89
@jessjess23brooks89 Месяц назад
Yes! I think he realizes he can only hold onto power with Rhaenyra's help and visa versa. They are paralleling that Rhaenyra is not so good at this war bit and Daemon is absolute dogshit at diplomacy.
@shreyasubramaniam4942
@shreyasubramaniam4942 Месяц назад
I live for Nettles's takes, she calls out everything that caught my attention from the watch, and she has the exact same thinking as I do. Simon's looks in Alys's direction seemed more like "what are you looking at Daemon?" to me, but he dare not question Daemon about it.
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
Yuuuppp 🐉 Alys could be castles away using a glass candle. Or she could be underground touching a tree. But this episode made me think that she’s definitely not in Harrenhal.
@shreyasubramaniam4942
@shreyasubramaniam4942 Месяц назад
​@@girlnettles Yes, nobody interacts with her. Nobody seems to even notice her presence or look in her direction except this one time that Simon does. I replayed it and noticed that Simon is actually following Daemon's gaze when he looked in Alys's direction. And only when she is right next to Simon. You would think when someone enters a room and sees two people, they would take notice of both but Simon doesn't. He talks to Daemon without so much as acknowledging Alys's presence.
@WildeMermaid
@WildeMermaid Месяц назад
Agree
@in_vas_por8810
@in_vas_por8810 Месяц назад
Although I did think about this, Simon looks directly at her, so that would be kind of lame misdirection if shes just not there at all. I was actually wondering if she had some sort of glamour on, so it's like Daemon is talking to some unknown servant woman.
@RockChick63174
@RockChick63174 Месяц назад
​@@in_vas_por8810I never saw him look directly at her. They don't acknowledge her at all.
@achohelelwhy
@achohelelwhy Месяц назад
Sean had a good point about Aegon's box (litter). You can't bring him in showing what happened to him, it'll cause panic or inspire insurrection. They have to bring him in still guarded, from the gates to the Red Keep. The people are starving, so there's a chance they'd attempt to raid the litter, thinking it could be food shipment. Parading Meleys' head was a distraction to get Aegon back into the Red Keep.
@herowithathousandvoices
@herowithathousandvoices Месяц назад
I hadn't thought of Meleys's head as a distraction but that's a good point.
@SB-yp8vp
@SB-yp8vp Месяц назад
Surprised there was no mention of the disrespect given to the dragons in this episode. We started with Maelys’ head being paraded in the streets. Then the Brackens straight up turning their backs on Caraxes like they didn’t give a FU… then the Freys looking at Vermax like meh… Jeyne Arryn showed little respect for them even though in her case it may have been justified. But man Dragons got no respect this episode.
@DavidLightbringer
@DavidLightbringer Месяц назад
oh great call that's a keen observation
@AlecArtComics
@AlecArtComics Месяц назад
I’ve noticed that more and more. A lot of people are very willing to disrespect the fire breathing monster riders… waaayyy too easily…
@WildeMermaid
@WildeMermaid Месяц назад
Exactly! I don't care if it is smaller than Vhagar... it is still a fire breathing dragon! I could never.
@jaythebookfiend1541
@jaythebookfiend1541 23 дня назад
Yeah, Ulf(? or Hugh?)'s shocky, "It's just meat," line made the delicacy of dragon diefication chillingly clear. Starve a people long enough, they'll pull anything they can reach--titans, taboos, tragedies--to their mouths to quell the hunger pangs.
@MichelMawon4982
@MichelMawon4982 Месяц назад
This Daemon ambition isn’t paid off. It’s a wrong direction.
@1siddynickhead
@1siddynickhead Месяц назад
So happy to have Girl Nettles back!! ❤❤❤
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
💋🐉
@MichelMawon4982
@MichelMawon4982 Месяц назад
You haven’t mentioned it, but did anyone notice that he got a taste of ruling when the people came to complain and he had no patience for it?
@Felicity_Reid_
@Felicity_Reid_ Месяц назад
Replay Crew! I feel like the problems David is pointing out with dialogue, character motivation and development is due to the writer's strike. George mentioned that when the strike started that the script was finished, but that doesn't mean that it was fine tuned as it normally would be. But HBO went ahead with filming without having the writers on call or even on set as they normally would. So things like cohesion between episodes, as well as actor contributions are not present.
@TheBlackconsigliere
@TheBlackconsigliere Месяц назад
David’s Daemon roast was spot on. All of a sudden you want the crown and you’re gonna win it with Simon strong and the Brackens? 😐
@roguepixel4753
@roguepixel4753 Месяц назад
It's so dumb
@ryuhayabusa3302
@ryuhayabusa3302 Месяц назад
Blame the writers.
@TheBlackconsigliere
@TheBlackconsigliere Месяц назад
@@roguepixel4753 odd to say the least.
@TheBlackconsigliere
@TheBlackconsigliere Месяц назад
To be fair fire and blood tells much of what happened. It not much of why it happened.
@RockChick63174
@RockChick63174 Месяц назад
It's about the location. 🙄
@mochrimek
@mochrimek Месяц назад
My heart broke for Aegon when he whispered, “Mummy”. 😢
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
Me tooo
@taytayqueen7024
@taytayqueen7024 Месяц назад
I like that Jace and Baela don’t kiss or that’s not the focus. They feel like the only true companionship based relationship, based on respect and love. Jace goes out of his way to defend Baela. It really feels like they have a love that isn’t completely based on young lusty fire. Im sure the lust is there, but Jace and Baela are a true parallel to Daemon & Rhaenyra. Love Jace and baela.
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
Two fire breathing dragon riders, have no fire? But I get your point. With Baela and Jace we are seeing different type of Gen Z dragons who can exercise restraint. And that’s a nice juxtaposition to Rhaenyra and Daemon
@buffysummers7887
@buffysummers7887 Месяц назад
yes! I love that! Comradeship
@doctorajaguar
@doctorajaguar Месяц назад
I love them too!!
@barryhercules7588
@barryhercules7588 Месяц назад
Aka Bae and Baela
@chrissiek8706
@chrissiek8706 Месяц назад
I feel like they like each other, but more like actual cousins
@irishpotatothief531
@irishpotatothief531 Месяц назад
Just a lil Frey defense: not every Frey is Walder, Ryman, or Lothar. The Freys in this story dont betray or backstab, at least not according to F&B. They pick a side and stick to it. Just because they run a toll bridge doesnt mean they are historically and constantly evil, and just because the Red Wedding happened doesnt mean the entire house at that point is evil. For every Lothar, you have an Olyvar
@lanam.9235
@lanam.9235 Месяц назад
This episode was all over the place. It’s like the characters are written by a different person at the beginning of each episode. You never who you’re going to get or what their personality is going to be like. It’s a surprise!
@DavidLightbringer
@DavidLightbringer Месяц назад
glad it's not just me then
@bonghitsandheavyriffs
@bonghitsandheavyriffs Месяц назад
​@@DavidLightbringer its definitely not.. theres a lot of inconsistencies with how these characters are written to where its actually jarring
@discobroccoli198
@discobroccoli198 Месяц назад
Huh? I didn’t get that at all.
@RockChick63174
@RockChick63174 Месяц назад
​@discobroccoli198 yeah, I didn't either.
@smpk9667
@smpk9667 Месяц назад
The short seasons really hurt the show. This episode really should have been 2 episode, first the aftermath of RR, and second a Riverlands episode with the Blackwood Bracken raids shown. The short Harrenhal scene with the riverlords was good, but would have been sold better if the horror of the raids was shown. Its weird how MAX isnt embracing this fully, greed ruins art sadly.
@ccpIz
@ccpIz Месяц назад
2:36:16 onwards felt like a group therapy session. This critique was much needed
@herowithathousandvoices
@herowithathousandvoices Месяц назад
It all started with my mother...
@CaylaCommonFolk
@CaylaCommonFolk Месяц назад
2:11:32 YES. Thank you. Dave noticed the same thing as me. It almost feels like whiplash sometimes between episodes. The characters just keep doing 180s
@E_Stormborn
@E_Stormborn Месяц назад
My favorite scene was the way all the men's voices became faint and muffled as Alicent sat nervously at the small council, almost as if she realized the mistakes she's made .. she's still overlooked and playing into the men's hands.
@shreyakar9220
@shreyakar9220 Месяц назад
Alicent has no idea how easy she had with aegon.
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
Boom 💥 there it is!
@samiai8905
@samiai8905 Месяц назад
Right! He was literally running to her for advice. The grass is always greener on the other side and Alicent just let it get scorched to kingdom come
@jordanborj8137
@jordanborj8137 Месяц назад
Theres probably some dragonbond stuff with Sunfyre and Aegon both being catatonic. Cole presumed Sunfyre dying and the grandmaester couldn't say if Aegon would ever awake so parallels there. I can't remember how it goes in the book but it could be cool if they recover around the same time to show their bond.
@anorbet2514
@anorbet2514 Месяц назад
I am uncertain where they are going with the Daemond/Harrenhal parts, but I really like everything they show me from the Harrenhal storyline. The way I read it so far is that Daemond is getting confronted with his own doubts, insecurities, and the consequences of his actions. When he has to deal with the lords of the Riverlands in the night the scene felt very dreamy. Like Daemon is trying so hard to play the part of the Targaryen dragonlord, yet it's almost like he is sleepwalking. Just acting the part he believes he should play. Pulled back by echoes of his wife asking him “are you talking care of our daughters?” The show in part seems to be about people trapped within social roles, or within their own trauma, and how that makes them take actions without really understanding the real harm caused by their decisions. Daemon seems like he his both halfheartedly trying to make himself king, while also being confused and conflicted about what he has done and is doing now.
@anorbet2514
@anorbet2514 Месяц назад
I've been thinking. My feelings regarding the dream sequences is that they feel like nightmares. He is dreaming of having a beautiful young Targaryen queen that worships him as a worthy king. Yet the woman is revealed to be his mother, his hands are covered with blood, and he has a surprised and scared look on his face as he wakes up. (That is how I read it at least). Daemon has believed in Targaryen supremacy and the stories glorifying his dynasty. And he has always felt (like Aemond) that he would have been the best and most competent king. However his dream turns into a nightmare. He does not yet understand that trying to make himself king would be a horror that would consume both him and his children. And that it would leave his hands covered with the blood of his family. I might even stretch it to imply that the blood of the dragon is not so much a blessing (as he believes) but a curse. At this point I fully believe that this will end with Daemon waking up to the reality of the world, shaken up from his delusions and unexamined desires, and that he will somehow sacrifice himself to prevent a greater evil.
@cosmicriptid
@cosmicriptid Месяц назад
Rhaenyra sending Velaryon fishing boats to smuggle food into King's Landing in her name would win her so many points with the small folk.
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
Right????
@anorbet2514
@anorbet2514 Месяц назад
I really enjoyed this episode. The part that made me laugh the loudest was when Alicent said to Cole about Aemond “you know what he is, what he has SOMEHOW become.” Yeah SOMEHOW, just sort of happened that he became a bad guy, nothing to do with you Alicent :P
@WildeMermaid
@WildeMermaid Месяц назад
Exactly! 😅 like she had no part in it at all...
@jessjess23brooks89
@jessjess23brooks89 Месяц назад
Homegirl has a huge problem with verbalizing accountability.
@amourtabb7859
@amourtabb7859 Месяц назад
Maybe im crazy but the vibe i got from daemon and the blackwood talking about "there are other ways to get what we want". Something about the vibe i thought they were talking about a seduction of some kind and i was so confused😂
@GehennaDreams13
@GehennaDreams13 Месяц назад
Daemon was like 3 years old when she died.
@leiana_yt
@leiana_yt Месяц назад
I wish I had participated in the Livestream bc I was cheering & championing MANY of the points you made about the writing!! Ever since "Septa Rhaenyra" episode, I have to take my time: rewatch the episode, contextualize it based on previous episodes or S1, watch the BTS stuff, read articles/interviews from cast/writers/showrunners, even GRRMs NotABlog, etc just to form my thoughts bc I genuinely don't know what this show is going for anymore 😅 I will be blunt (as always lol) I DON'T have faith in the writing team. I like the show overall, but I have to view it generically & divorce it from any kind of F&B Canon bc otherwise I just get annoyed at all the ways this could be better. I feel strongly that being critical is essential for media. It can't just be "consume product." If the showrunners &/or writers make wild, incoherent leaps or inconsistencies, it needs to be called out. We can love & enjoy a piece of media/entertainment AND STILL have valid criticisms. I personally LOVE Daemon's character in the book (& somewhat in the show, this season is making it difficult) & Im always down to have civil discussions w/ppl who DON'T like him/just view him as a villain. Not to change their minds or anything, but just have more nuance. & I appreciate that even tho you (David) dont like Daemon's character, you can still see the pettiness of his characters' writing. Bc I do agree, who they showed Daemon as in S1 is wayyy closer to what he is -- minus that moment of him personally killing Rhea Royce; absolutely underhanded & not needed, IMO. I was wary of S2 bc there was alot of chatter about "deconstructing" Daemon's character; "putting him in his place" & Im sorry, considering how outright some of the writers have been about disliking/hating Daemon & all he represents, I dont trust these same ppl to write something interesting, compelling or even consistent... & that got proven correct, esp in this episode w/him sexing his mother...WTF? & WHY? What does that even tell us about his internal psyche? What does it have to do w/ anything?? To me, it was just meant to degrade his character further 🙄 & I'll probably need a whole new comment for Rhaenyra & her character writing 😤 but I'll just leave it to: • Writers are clearly angling: Women = good, men = bad. They dont want to sully any of the female (main) characters. & you're right, it's obtuse & low-hanging fruit & it's getting to be BORING story-wise. • Rhaenyra, specifically, as Ive said before, theyre handling w/kid gloves bc they dont want Dany 2.0 on their hands. But it is diluting her character down, defanging her & she is SO MUCH MORE dynamic than that! Ive been advocating for a stronger, more vicious (not necessarily violent) Rhaenyra. Young Rhaenyra had sass, had backbone! As you point out, book Rhae fed Vaemond to Syrax. Where is THAT Rhaenyra?! & it's such a shame bc Emma is absolutely capable of giving us that character. Lastly, not Rhaenyra related, but yeah, what a MISSED OPPORTUNITY with that random expo dump line of Rhaena almost dying trying to claim a dragon (I think she might've tried for Seasmoke). They drop that one line, which is way more interesting story-wise & for character development, couldn't be bothered to show that... But spend a whole segment on Daemon munching on his mother "vision" 🙃 get out of here show.
@CindyA715
@CindyA715 Месяц назад
Absolutely agree, pretty much 100%, and thank you for mentioning the “deconstructing” you said it SO well. Thank you, thank you!
@manyeyedcrow9391
@manyeyedcrow9391 Месяц назад
I am not sure where they are going with the Daemon dreams, at first I thought it was going to help him come to terms with his internal conflicts, but it seemed to take a turn toward reinforcing the worst parts of his character in this one.
@DavidLightbringer
@DavidLightbringer Месяц назад
yeah and I'm still not sure what sense that makes
@jamescerone
@jamescerone Месяц назад
@@DavidLightbringerit’s not shaking his morality, it’s just pissing him off. Daemon is a narcissist, he’s practically incapable of admitting he’s wrong
@jls2508
@jls2508 Месяц назад
​@@DavidLightbringerI have a theory that Alys is working with Larys to cause dissension in the Black ranks. Given the later Aemond-Harrenhall storyline and the current speculation on the Larys-Alys connection, it would make sense that Alys is emboldening Daemon's inner conflict with the dreams while also making his state of mind less stable via druggy potions, which could make him (even) more erratic and prone to impulsive action. Both the guilt and the entitlement could ultimately contribute to this end, since it seems that he's progressively being pushed from the "look at your deeds, you bastard" to the "it was worth it because you're the one true king" perspective.
@jessjess23brooks89
@jessjess23brooks89 Месяц назад
​@@jls2508That's what I think. This all feels very purposely sabotagey. I like the idea that she tested him first and when he was resistent to change, she went full force with Larys's plan. But in a bit of Daemon's defense, how else would a person act if they wake up mid-conversation other than with instinct? And Daemon's instincts without reflection are horrible. This is something he even seems to understand about himself.
@squisherking
@squisherking Месяц назад
Cant believe im saying this but i kind of miss Otto😬
@DavidLightbringer
@DavidLightbringer Месяц назад
big time
@CindyA715
@CindyA715 Месяц назад
Hate him, seriously hate him, but boy he was *stellar in that 3rd episode!!👍🏻👏🏻
@TheBlackconsigliere
@TheBlackconsigliere Месяц назад
The actor who plays Alicent ate and left no crumbs this week. Sean is right here.
@summerdaze390
@summerdaze390 Месяц назад
Jace and Baela grew up together in part and knew each other from a very young age. Targ incest is normalized, but only in about half of the cases have we seen the unions be ones of passion, not duty. Jace and Baela may be fond of each other as friends and kin, but their partnership may not be a wholly romantic one yet, if at all. Might explain the fondness but lack of bedroom activities or kissing.
@lc4822
@lc4822 Месяц назад
Rhaenyra in the book was not a greater force for action like you say, I think by some (most?) accounts she was absent from councils in grief for this part of the story
@DavidLightbringer
@DavidLightbringer Месяц назад
that's just wrong. go back and reread my friend. She was talking about bring me the heads of Aemond and Aegon and then we'll negotiate with whomever is left
@jeffreym8503
@jeffreym8503 Месяц назад
At the beginning of the war rheanera was very much I will have my throne or their heads but after the death of Luke she was m.i.a until the aftermath of the battle of the gullet!..in a way you both are right sort of lol
@thelateescapist8266
@thelateescapist8266 Месяц назад
The loyalty of cheese's dog continues to break my heart.
@HeyJudeDontBeSad
@HeyJudeDontBeSad Месяц назад
Right! I love that damn dog!
@MistyWarden
@MistyWarden Месяц назад
Cheese’s dog 🤝 Fry’s dog
@MrNoble1997
@MrNoble1997 Месяц назад
​@MistyWarden why would you do that to me 😭😭😭😭😭
@maxgr540
@maxgr540 Месяц назад
the dog was waiting to shit on Cheese's corpse
@cosmicriptid
@cosmicriptid Месяц назад
Helaena calling out Aemond was so badass. I don't know if he fully regretted it, but he was severely spooked that Helaena saw through him.
@DavidLightbringer
@DavidLightbringer Месяц назад
I wanted more!!
@leslieshE
@leslieshE Месяц назад
So bad what they did with Daemon, when last episode I felt they were really trying to show the true man behind that angry, mean personality. Last episode they showed us what he was jealous about was that Viserys trusted/cared for/loved Rhaenyra more than him, it wasn't just about the throne, but now apparently it was for the throne after all. They almost make Daemon and Aemond the same character in some aspects........
@DavidLightbringer
@DavidLightbringer Месяц назад
agree on everything you said
@jacky1032
@jacky1032 Месяц назад
Do you think that Daemon would care what Viserys has to say if Viserys was not the King? Do you think that Daemon would love Rhaenyra if she was some random cousin and not the heir to the throne?
@leslieshE
@leslieshE Месяц назад
@@jacky1032 Thing is, Daemon would be a different person if he wasn't brother to a king and husband to a queen. For all we know he'd be more sympathetic towards others, not having to prove himself and his worth all the time.
@jacky1032
@jacky1032 Месяц назад
@@leslieshE i wanted to say that if they had a older brother then Daemon would care for that brother and ignore Viserys. Daemon has 2 daughters which he ignores because they are not powerful. He was always all about power,he only cared about those members of his family which are powerful.
@roguepixel4753
@roguepixel4753 Месяц назад
​@@jacky1032The fact that they wrote Daemon like this is also bad. Making him all about power is one dimensional and boring.
@canadianravenbrook
@canadianravenbrook Месяц назад
Daemon's mommy dreams were interesting
@leiana_yt
@leiana_yt Месяц назад
2:42:06 I push back on that. Jaime's character ISN'T about "redemption" -- it's about RECONTEXTUALIZATION. Jaime wouldn't change a thing he's done in the past, he'd do it all over again. However, he HAS grown more of a moral compass & has more consciousness via interactions with Catelyn, Brienne & also learning to truly see ppl for who they are (Cersei, being the big one). I get what you were going for, but it's just not the same between Jaime & Daemon & whatever the writers seem to be doing in HOTD.
@herowithathousandvoices
@herowithathousandvoices Месяц назад
I agree, that's why I was a bit skittish with the wording. There's no redemption for what he's done, but he can always start doing better. Recontextualization is a nice way to put it.
@Conorp77
@Conorp77 Месяц назад
I'm very much enjoying the show, but there are some things to say. George's latest blog posts held a quote which with fresh light, can only be directed at the shows writers. "Ignore canon, and the world you've created comes apart like tissue paper." Some changes have been irksome, but less egregious; Aemond attacking Aegon, Aegon being stripped of his armour etc, but it does seem like the consistency of the world is worsening. Episode 1x9 was such a misfire with the Green Council, Rhaenys in the Dragonpit, that it's still haunting the rest of the story. It absolutely ruined Rhaenys' characterisation, and this quote from Condal about Meleys being a dragon 'beloved by the common people' really puts the cherry on top.
@garthgreenlung420
@garthgreenlung420 Месяц назад
Rhaenyra is so boring this season, 0 fire 0 anger over the death of her son even though that’s literally the cliff-hanger they left us on at the end of season 1. The whole show so far seems to be the men going to war and the women trying to prevent it. It’s just lazy writing at this point.
@Addam_
@Addam_ Месяц назад
To be fair most people are resistant to and want to fight against normal therapy. I'm not surprised Daemon would "regress" before getting better. I hope he's improve going forward to the finale.
@cardboard2night
@cardboard2night Месяц назад
- Mom, can we have therapy? - No, son, we have therapy at home. Therapy at home, in Westeros: some wood's witch feeding you ancient tree paste and tea ☕ and she judges your life choices 😐
@bloodyneptune
@bloodyneptune Месяц назад
What Aemond _somehow_ became, Alicent?
@FanOfTheMyths
@FanOfTheMyths Месяц назад
The vibes I got from Daemon is that his feelings about going to claim the throne for himself are coming from the dreams and being at Harrenhall altogether. At first, he didn't want to eat what they were offering him, then he just drinks a tea from a random lady he just met. He dreams that he's fucked his mom (soooo gross, BUT it's actually said in the World book that Valerians DID do that, which somehow makes it worse for me) and she tells him he was born to wear a crown. So, now, he's saying he wants the crown for himself. He shpuld be gathering an army and marching to war, but he can't seem to leave Harrenhall. Like it has him in its grasp. Aso for why he'd get those dreams, it's very possible that Alys is controlling those dreams. But it's also possible she's just witnessing them, or just making it so that he's extra susceptible to the mind-poisoning affects of the place. Or, maybe she's trying to call on memories, feelings, and figures in his life that she feels would give him good council. But it's either backfiring on Daemon, or he's trying REALLy hard to fight against the affects. Personally, if I was getting the impression someone was fucking with my mind and I didn't have my faculties about myself enough to figure out the details or how to stop it, I'd just do the opposite of what the vibes are telling me to do. Overall, I just think that what Daemon is doing right now it's fully DAEMON. I wonder what he will be like when he finally fully breaks free of the place. And how Aemon will respond to it. Also, I gotta say, Rhaenyra wasn't ever that good at politics. If she were, she wouldn't have allowed a Blackwood to kill a Braken right in front of her or insulted people while trying to find a husband. If she were, she would have tried harder to get Laenor to give her children, or at least picked one of his cousins to fuck so they came out looking Velaryon. She would have fought to be the one who stays at Kingslanding to help her father rule instead of letting Alicent gain so much power. She learned how to be a ruler from her father, and he was a bad example. That's who she's trying to emulate now. Both Greens and Blacks are bad rulers. The Greens are grasping and willing to go to war to steal a throne. But the Blacks feel entitled to the throne and just expect it to come without making the effort to play politics. To marry into different houses, to visit every castle in a progression and make friends of all these Lords they wanted to make their allies. That's a major way that Aegon and Jaehaerys and Alysanne made friends and showed their power to the world. And it's how Ned gained the loyalty and love his people and lords, according to Jon. But Rhaenyra just assumed that lords like the Barathoens would just join when she asked them to. Much like Lord Barathoen said when Luke came to get him to join with their side. She had years to make friends with Alicent, too. She clearly failed. They are good at being dragonriders, but not that good at being politicians. How would she know she's supposed to butter up the Lords on her council? Her father never did that and showed her how to do that. Who WOULD do that? Otto. And she's not about to go immitating Otto. It's why I loved Alyn Oakenfist the most in the books. He didn't have a dragon, and learned to use politics as his weapon. He was still new to it, but he was out there buttering people up. Convicing people of how to do things with politics, instead of the threat of dragons. Because that's what it is. Daemon practically screamed it in this episode with his initial failure with the Brakens. He only threatened - and did so with the Blackwoods next to him. What he should have done is come alone or with friendlier faces. Used sweet words like Jaehaerys did with (whichever first name) Baratheon. He spoke kindly, then showed his dragon when asked if he wanted hostages. Walk softly and carrying a big stick. Daemon? He did like Rhaena did. He threatened to hit them with the stick, like Rhaena screamed in people's faces that she would burn their cities to the ground. Daemon was the same in the first episode of season one. He cut off hands and dicks and heads, instead of any number of things that would have been more effective governing. I agree - the writing is off. But it's about how well they are pulling things off. But them being bad politicians? I think that was supposed to be clear from the very beginning. Maybe they made the characters too likeable, too relatable, that at times it was hard to see the mistakes for what they were. I agree - consistancy in writing would REALLY help them sell what they are trying to sell 😑🙄
@canadianravenbrook
@canadianravenbrook Месяц назад
Oh God did you just explain how and why Hotd doesn't quite measure up to GOT without maybe meaning to for me? 😂😅
@canadianravenbrook
@canadianravenbrook Месяц назад
Yep. This. This whole comment!!
@thelateescapist8266
@thelateescapist8266 Месяц назад
"... Oh and someone cut down the f*cking ratcatchers." Is my favorite line of the episode. To end his first council meeting as regent, by repudiating his brother's greatest folly seemingly as an afterthought, is the perfect punctuation of Aemond's casual assertiveness. In other words "I run shit now. And I don't intend on playing stupid games or winning stupid prizes."
@IndomitableAde
@IndomitableAde Месяц назад
As soon as the episode brought us to King's Landing, my first thought was, "Damn, we still got the ratcatchers up? That's nasty," so I was VERY glad when Aemond ordered them cut down.
@jamesknott5255
@jamesknott5255 Месяц назад
Meleys’s head being paraded through Kings Landing did NOT have the reaction Krispy Kream Cole expected 😂
@canadianravenbrook
@canadianravenbrook Месяц назад
I agree that Rhaenyra's character depicted here is a bit hard to get into at times.. I was thinking it just this episode. It's a little bothersome. It's almost like the writers aren't in agreement about her.
@wafflingmean4477
@wafflingmean4477 Месяц назад
I like that you mention Blood and Cheese would have had no chance even if they found Aemond. And when watching the episode, I got the impression that Blood, Cheese and Daemon were all aware of this, and they all read that off each other too. And THAT is when Cheese said "What if we can't find him?" As soon as Cheese asked that, I got the impression that Cheese had no intention of looking for Aemond. Jaeherys was always the real target. At least for Cheese and Daemon didn't care either way.
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
I think I agree with that 🤔
@Jacob-fz5ho
@Jacob-fz5ho Месяц назад
viserys didn't have good temperance for rule, every time a dutiful conversation about the weeds of rule arose he grew ire and said "can't you see I'm at my daughter's wedding/hunt/family dinner/etc. leave me alone". He didn't read the job description, those events are where politics are done.
@Skye_Writer
@Skye_Writer Месяц назад
The wife of a king IS known as the Queen Consort, officially. A consort signifies husband or wife of a monarch, like Camilla is married to King Charles, so she is the Queen Consort. Once she is crowned in the coronation ceremony, they usually drop the word "consort" and just refer to the wife of a king as "the queen" because it's understood that the king always outranks the queen. Prince Phillip never became King Phillip of England for exactly this reason. Elizabeth was the heir, so when she became Queen Elizabeth II, he became the prince consort, which is the typical title for the husband of a reigning queen. Since neither Phillip nor Elizabeth cared for the word "consort" because it was old-fashioned, they dropped it in favor of just styling him, Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh. Some monarchies _do_ use the title of "king consort" for the role. Queen Victoria wanted to make her husband Albert "king consort" but the British government refused to introduce a bill allowing ii since Albert was a foreigner. So, Daemon's ACTUAL title should be prince consort, as indicated by the way Ser Symon addressed him when he first came to Harrenhal, with the word "consort" added to show he's moved up from just being a prince of the realm. When he demanded to be called "Your Grace" which is reserved for the reigning monarch, Ser Symon began calling him the "king consort" to indicate that he _isn't_ the reigning monarch, but rather that he is married to the monarch. Daemon's insistence on dropping "consort" from his title is his way of declaring that he outranks his wife.
@TheToby121
@TheToby121 Месяц назад
the obvious symbolism for daemon is that he is a mother you know what
@doctorajaguar
@doctorajaguar Месяц назад
😂😂
@elliesunderland248
@elliesunderland248 Месяц назад
I needed that "they're fucking up" Daemon-rant at the end. Thanks so much 🙏Absolutely right what you are all saying. And I have lost hope that they will mend it. Would need excellent writing skills now to redeem him. And more episodes. The roller coaster metaphor nails it. It is sad that the two characters I was rooting for the most in season one are kinda gone now and that the writers don't show why.
@bloodyneptune
@bloodyneptune Месяц назад
A really _menacing_ sponge bath, though
@MoooMooMoo
@MoooMooMoo Месяц назад
Thank you so much for hosting these streams!
@canadianravenbrook
@canadianravenbrook Месяц назад
Thanks for hosting these after shows for us!
@donvalladares6930
@donvalladares6930 Месяц назад
i love u David so refreshing hearing you talk all of u on the panel
@cariocaemfuria3946
@cariocaemfuria3946 Месяц назад
Thanks for the great content! I think I know what's in the tea Alys is giving Daemon: it's bad script leaf.
@stewqrtrankin3303
@stewqrtrankin3303 Месяц назад
Fun fact the name Rankin as in mine and Gale Rankin, Alys Rivers actor in HoD means kin of Randolf it's an ancient Scottish name dating back to 1 AD to auld Dougal of Scone and said to be as Scottish as Scottish can be. They were also the hereditary pipers to the McClean Clan for over 500 years.
@jamesh7469
@jamesh7469 Месяц назад
Sean was fantastic. Loved having him, great addition
@theHeroWithaThousandVoices
@theHeroWithaThousandVoices Месяц назад
Thanks! Always happy to be here!
@amandaofhouserobinson6707
@amandaofhouserobinson6707 Месяц назад
Nettles is so right. Daemon now thinks he is above rhynaera.
@RockChick63174
@RockChick63174 Месяц назад
Didn't he always?
@dirtyduck10
@dirtyduck10 Месяц назад
What a great ep felt like old thrones, the houses the production the pacing, yea it was slower but you can feel the build up at least I did
@ScottishWelshie
@ScottishWelshie Месяц назад
Alicent is terrified of Aemond.
@jessjess23brooks89
@jessjess23brooks89 Месяц назад
I'm terrified of Aemond and I don't even live in their world.
@canadianravenbrook
@canadianravenbrook Месяц назад
Not Nettles sending Nanny V to an old folk's home 😂😅
@Kceam
@Kceam Месяц назад
Eh I still liked the episode. Having read the book however I would have liked them to use their limited time for other things than what they have decided
@motorcitymangababe
@motorcitymangababe Месяц назад
O think daemon's weird deeam was the core of his begrudgment of Viserys - the core wound if you will. He envies his brother's time with their mother. Logically, thats not much. Viz was like, 3, and daemon was like 1. But that wound probably formed in childhood when that time period was everything. And since that can't be solved, it just taints everything else that involves him and Viserys. ETA: I also am becoming more solid in my belief that harrenhall is haunting it's occupants. It explains not just the dreams, but daemons outright WEIRD behavior. Out of character. Alys may be helping - but the place is whats causing it.
@mariesueme8807
@mariesueme8807 Месяц назад
It's so funny how Daemon thinks he'd be a great King but every decision he takes is so bad for the blacks. Like he has spent his life doing whatever and being protected by Viserys. Even Jaehaerys, Rhaenyra took the blame for that, it hurt Her not him directly. Now he's having to grapple with how burning bridges and being a tyrant doesn't work on the long run. Now that Viserys is not smoothing over his crazy stunts it's his responsibility.
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
I like this!
@roguepixel4753
@roguepixel4753 Месяц назад
Yeah. No light & dark. Hated & loved. Both good & bad for Rhaenyra's cause as was written by George. Show Daemon is one note
@CindyA715
@CindyA715 Месяц назад
@@roguepixel4753 thank you!
@taytayqueen7024
@taytayqueen7024 Месяц назад
Shawn saying the positive was that Daemon was generous took me out 😂😂😂😂😂😂
@herowithathousandvoices
@herowithathousandvoices Месяц назад
I had to dig deep for that one.
@ben_jamin197
@ben_jamin197 Месяц назад
I really hate that I can't catch and react to this show on a Sunday evening live in the UK (for time reasons), but re-watching this livestream after the episode on Monday is a real boon.
@taytayqueen7024
@taytayqueen7024 Месяц назад
I think they can’t win when it comes to pacing. A huge section complain about how it’s too slow and isn’t just major plot points, and the other is people who want to see more and that causes the show to be slower.
@DavidLightbringer
@DavidLightbringer Месяц назад
no, including more information does not mean the pacing has to be slower. pacing is a product of how each scene is written
@taytayqueen7024
@taytayqueen7024 Месяц назад
@@DavidLightbringer I’m okay with most of it except I agree they’ve failed Rhaenyras character this season.
@GehennaDreams13
@GehennaDreams13 Месяц назад
Very good take Dave. I appreciate the take on Aemond should be Daemon’s apprentice. They should be sticking together and teaching each other.
@bjrnbrynemo9059
@bjrnbrynemo9059 Месяц назад
7:20 Matt Smith probably reacted similar to reading that scene as Daemon reacted to that letter from his brother right before he killed the Crabfeeder.
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
Tee hee hee
@ladyhotep5189
@ladyhotep5189 Месяц назад
The character playing Baela was on 💯 this episode. Her lines with Corlys omg....great stuff. Her lines with Jace and Raenyra, also amazing. Have we ever seen Jace and Baela be intimate? Even a little peck? I can't remember. This whole storyline with Daemon is getting stale. I was excited to see my man go to war and I get this bs. Were the writers not expecting the audience to fall in love with Daemonits like they put him on time out and showing us this bs to dislike him. I know there's a storyline in the books. Most of us aren't feeling it on screen tho.
@Daniella040
@Daniella040 Месяц назад
OH LORD this team!! David, Sean and Nettles!!🔥 And House Dayne represent!!💜
@theHeroWithaThousandVoices
@theHeroWithaThousandVoices Месяц назад
Hell yeah! My last name is McArthur I better rep the Arthur Dayne house!
@Daniella040
@Daniella040 Месяц назад
@@theHeroWithaThousandVoices Best house 💜
@getrichrich8246
@getrichrich8246 Месяц назад
Jaece living out his step sis fantasy
@wafflingmean4477
@wafflingmean4477 Месяц назад
If Alicent ever asks how her sons ended up the way they are, it's going to be comparable to Skyrim guards going "I'm going to find whoever did this" when you the player are standing over the body with a bloody weapon in your hands lol.
@jessjess23brooks89
@jessjess23brooks89 Месяц назад
This is doubly humorous since Alicent has basically been turned into an NPC this episode.
@leiana_yt
@leiana_yt Месяц назад
1:15:55 In the Green Small Council mtg, they mention that the smallfolk are afraid, they're fleeing & spreading talk of unrest/fear in KL. Aemond says they need to stop the word from spreading, they shouldn't be allowed to leave, lock the gates. But it's also all the things y'all noted, too.
@buffysummers7887
@buffysummers7887 Месяц назад
"so butterfly, then cormorant" shout out to Sean 😆
@theHeroWithaThousandVoices
@theHeroWithaThousandVoices Месяц назад
Shout right back!
@three-eyed_magpie
@three-eyed_magpie Месяц назад
Regarding the "Alyssa" dream - I was reminded of the post-sex scene with Mysaria in S01E01. Mysaria soothed and reassured Daemon, flattered him, kissed him on the forehead. It's possible that Daemon's dream was originally something like that - mundane, ordinary wish-fulfillment and ego-flattery- and the dream woman is not a real character. The blood on his hand and "my favorite son" line would be added by Alys.
@markreid5066
@markreid5066 Месяц назад
Hey David, love the channel, if you ever want to talk about the Frued/psychology behind scenes and characters I'd be happy to share my thoughts as an LMSW. Otherwise keep up the great work, love the talks and videos!
@cosmicriptid
@cosmicriptid Месяц назад
I was waiting for Jace to come up with the dragonseed idea and I loved it.
@Challenger_117
@Challenger_117 Месяц назад
I do think we are getting some of the starwars effect with the characters, even my husband mentioned that Rhaenyra seems different from past episodes. Somehow Rhaenyra and Daemon from season one didn't return ⁉️
@JennaMac24
@JennaMac24 Месяц назад
Regarding Daemon not knowing what his mom looks like, has anyone else noticed that portraits are not a thing in GRRM's world?
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
🤔 very interesting
@CindyA715
@CindyA715 Месяц назад
Well, instead we get a lot of tapestries, of people AND dragons …doing… things!… 🙈lol
@FdotStizzy
@FdotStizzy Месяц назад
2:35:50 100% the same for me as well dude! I am so glad that I am not the only one going through this.
@CaylaCommonFolk
@CaylaCommonFolk Месяц назад
Finally here for the rewatch! But it’s never too late. So cool to see Sean on your stream, he has great quips and ideas. This was a great episode and I’m so ready to hear all your thoughts.
@herowithathousandvoices
@herowithathousandvoices Месяц назад
Thanks! Always glad to be on the Lightbringer show!
@ashmaz400
@ashmaz400 Месяц назад
Thank you so much for saying the truth. Everyone is praising the show but they are not doing a great job with this
@RadPokeDad
@RadPokeDad Месяц назад
This season is so good! The performances have been unreal so far it’s like I’m watching some theater production! Haha anyways love the stream, yall are fun and have a great dynamic!
@CountrysideGeekery
@CountrysideGeekery Месяц назад
Ok I’m at the part where they talk about the dog. Am I the only one worried about where they’re going with him? I mean he’s a lone animal living on the streets of a city that is full of starving people. I swear we’re going to eventually have a scene showing he’s missing from whatever his usual spot is at the time, and it switch over to the community soup pot.
@claudiafuentes9923
@claudiafuentes9923 Месяц назад
God I hope not
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
They better not
@buffysummers7887
@buffysummers7887 Месяц назад
I've been thinking this is his fate too 😞
@OceanHedgehog
@OceanHedgehog Месяц назад
On the topic of Aegon's hospital box, they were trying to keep his injuries secret - later, Hugh and his wife hear that Aemond is regent and they're like, "where's the King?" And after Cole saw Aemond try to kill Aegon, there was no way he was going to let Aemond fly Aegon back to Kings Landing.
@ramixaleandros5893
@ramixaleandros5893 Месяц назад
Love the intro music and background. Great stream as always, nice having Nettles back. Hopefully Rhaenyra stops waffling and takes action, good or bad. I did like Jace and Baela stepping up this ep, could have been great monarchs. Securing the Freys may seem like a loss but as we saw in AGOT you need that bridge for the Northemen. Still hoping Nettles will be in the show, love her character and the parallels to Dany. As a die hard Dany fan, I'd love for more videos about her or Bran after HOTD S2. Long shot but heyy you have done some great iceberg streams about them. A few streams ago i said it was WW paste but I think you're right, it was WW leaves. WW tea. Maybe non greenseer/wargs can't take the paste (and live) plus easier to disguise.
@CameronkAK
@CameronkAK Месяц назад
Have they killed off Sunfire or are they just setting the scene for everyone to think he’s dead?
@DavidLightbringer
@DavidLightbringer Месяц назад
probably the second one
@GehennaDreams13
@GehennaDreams13 Месяц назад
I loved Daemon season 1 because he was the family loving dragon loving Targaryen. I could forgive the dark grey parts when most of it I understood. Now it feels like he’s doing this like teen tantrum “well if you’re going to accuse me of it, I’m going to go do it now.”
@FdotStizzy
@FdotStizzy Месяц назад
Totally agree with you about the writing of daemon’s and Rhaenyra’s character.
@emlynperson3976
@emlynperson3976 Месяц назад
you brought up dragon glas as a joke but considering harenhal was burned by a dragon might the towers not act like glas candles ?
@girlnettles
@girlnettles Месяц назад
🤔 mayhaps
@ryanhatfield25
@ryanhatfield25 Месяц назад
Should we expect a How I Met My Mother t shirt?
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