This is the RU-vid home for the Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire podcast. We analyze the symbolism of ancient folktales in ASOIAF and compare them to the main characters in the story, finding parallels and echoes which reveal the broader tapestry of past and future events and archetypes which George R. R. Martin has created. As a result, we have discovered the cause of the Long Night and the truth of Azor Ahai and Lightbringer, which is not what we have been lead to believe. George is a master of symbolism and metaphor, and is well-steeped in world mythology. His books are part of the larger literary tradition of esoteric, symbolic writing, and as a result, analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire benefits tremendously when viewed inside that larger context... and that's what we do here. We do strict interpretations of the text, eschewing wild speculation to instead focus on the precise language and reoccurring symbolic motifs in the work. Merch coming soon 🔥
I think delving this deep into the details and mysteries of a story that the author has abandoned and shows no effort or desire to finish is just setting up even more people for heartbreak and disappointment. You're just drawing more potential fans into an incomplete world. None of the questions you raise are ever gonna be answered. Martin has moved on, it's time the rest of us do too. Trust me no one hates to admit this more than me.
Damn reading the forsaken chapter from WoW reminds you so fast why these books are so enthralling and why people are so worked up about the release of that book and why it's so heartbreakingly depressing that we will never get to read how the story ends.
Commenting as I watch, so not sure if this gets mentioned, but Radagon marrying Renalla to bring the Carians under the Golden Order is very reminiscent of Daeron II marrying Myriah Martell to bring the Dornish under the Targaryens
If the tall men of Leng are related to the children of the forest and migrated to Westeros, maybe it means that Nissa Nissa/Night’s Queen was a Stark, descended from the Lengii and had car like eyes, making her a tiger woman. Or is suppose, even if not Lengii, if she was just a child of the forest, she could still have cat eyes. But being Lengii gives it a double tiger reference.
The whole azor ahai, prince, prophecy thing is a comment from GRR Martin on fantasy/sci fi tropes. I believe it's a nod to Dune as well. Paul Atreides was never the "Mahdi" because it was all mumbo jumbo. In the same vein, no one is any of these, because it's all superstition. Yes, even in a world with magic and dragons, you have the conspiracy theorist doom prophets...
20:27 there's a thing that can happen with twins where if a woman has sex with two different people in the same time frame that both those sperm can reach the egg it's highly unlikely but can happen. We have text proof that aeyres wishes the Lord's right to the first night was still legal and after that tywin leaves court. (When they're first married) So what if what really happened was aeryes did practice the Lord's right and tywin consummated the marriage and Jamie is twins and cersei is areyes? Idk I've just thought that would be neat.
18:00 I know this is 3 years later but if the new art for ASOIAF is to be believed we see Ned bringing Dawn back to Starfall and there is a weirwood and Ashara is not pregnant 👀👀 so that basically triple confirms R+L=J
@@DavidLightbringer Well, we don't know where the North of Westeros ends: Westeros could very well go past the arctic and down the other side of the planet. We don't have parallels and meridians on these maps. Where is the equator? Do we know if the two Northern continents (Westeros and Essos) are all there is in the Northern hemisphere? How much are we seeing of this world? Is the Sunset Sea West of Westeros also to the East of Essos? Or is there another landmass there?Or maybe Sothoryos goes simply down to the antarctic and that is the reason why Jaenara stopped exploring.
3:16:52 sorry, but I while I can't agree with Shae- I don't consider it kinslaying to kill your abuser- and after they try to kill you or have you killed in this society it's fair game. I don't think that makes you a good person exactly - but Tywin absolutely deserved to be killed by the kid he abused from the moment said kid drew breath. You chose to create that life and then betrayed that child over and over again until that child snapped and killed you. Beat dogs bite back and I don't blame them either. That's not kinslaying, it's karmic justice.
@@DavidLightbringer Oh yeah, shae should not have been murdered period. Tyrion is smart enough to realize that she had no say in anything. But at that moment I think Tyrion turned her into an object to project his trauma around his father and sex onto. THAT to me is what makes him the most evil in that moment. He saw a victim like himself and made her a thing. It's the moment he stepped out of that ring and into the Ring with Tywin as a monster. I don't think Tyrion should have murdered Tywin, because Tyrion didn't deserve that final trauma from his father. But on Tywin's end, death like that was poetic justice.
i still prefer the theory that Dondarrion's squire is Lyanna and Rhaegar's(she probably is the one that named him) son and that Jon is Brandon and Ashara's son
Conan the barbarian is the only story you are ever watch But you don’t know Even in league of legends Rylas Morrelos? Cmon don’t tell me you don’t know… The deep ones? The deep ones are from Conan. A song of ice in fire just isn’t hyperborea But it is like music Someone originally wrote the first song After that song another human learn But then they died but someone else was live that knew, but they didn’t know the original human that wrote the song and it changed. The Bible And then a song of ice and fire The Bible then Conan The Torah then the Bible It’s all like Idk the word for it but it’s like a wall or how people write their name on yearbook or on T-shirt But nobody notice because the tshirt is kind of surreal and has existed for so long, and humans keep dying and then relearning Ugh Idk the word for it
I have thought before and will say again, probably only half the symbolism we find was done on purpose. I am a writer who uses what George describes as Gardening style, and a lot of connections end up being either subconscious, or serendipitous coincidences. Often, we look back at what we have written and get really excited about the thing we included we didn't even notice. That being said, fantasy writing is an art, and therefore interpretive. Much of the symbolism and the connections were added intentionally, and human minds continuing those connections wherever we find them is really cool. All to say we probably find more connections than were intentionally added, and that's still really cool and a testament to George's writing.
EVERYTHING is political. If you don't realize that, you are out of touch. And clearly GRRM is a pacifist. It's 2024 & we're still listening to that Orange menace because SOME people refuse to realize that everything is political
10:45 I find it cool that the targaryens bond with dragons is the same as the Stark's bond with the direwolves I'm rereading a game of thrones and they make a note that Brand gets better when they open the window and he can hear the howling of his wolf. And all throughout fire and blood. You see Targaryen babies health increase when they are around their dragons. Just another ice and fire link I guess.
These kind of streams are my favorite! Great to see girlnettles back too! Thank you for all the content and hard work to bring us some joy every week :)
Dunks protectiveness of egg always reminds me of me and my little brother- except he's gonna be a Dunk sized man himself and I'm 5 foot 4. Still, if I thought you tossed my bro down a well a knife wouldn't save you either lmao Ever since he was a little kid him being in distress has triggered some feral instincts let me tell you.
Baphomet is an expression of the same divine hermaphrodite archetype as Mercurias from Alchemy, which the Rebis is the attempted recreation of within the mythological metaphor of alchemical recipes, just representing different occult traditions
57:15 "who could turn down the iron throne? Who could turn down ultimate power?" 🙋🙋 I know! Ser Duncan the smalll turns down his rightful claim to the iron throne for Jenny Of OldStones. Idk if thats a parallel or botm but it always stuck out in my mind
Aemon is one of my fav characters hes jes one of those that has ties to so much important lore throughout asoiaf and dunc and egg. *Tangent* Im gonna be honest i want all the dunc and egg stories before even winds. They are my favorite part of the series and im a firm believer of my own theory GRRM once said "asoiaf is a story where the main character died years before the story even starts" Ive always thought that ser Duncan. His life eas so important if you believe he saved rhaegars mom. Idk theres not a lot of proof but i have a heavy bias because i stan ser Duncan 😂
so nissa nissa didnt die to forge lightbringer? im confused. if azor ahai sacrificed nissa nissa to invade the weirwood net how could have forged lightbringer?
the part of renly being killed by a shadow baby to save men reminds me too much of tywin when in the show he says that he did it to end the war and what is the difference between killing a dozen men at dinner instead of 10000 men in battle which is more honorable?
David has it ever occurred to you that your mind and the way you can do symbolism that you should stop doing this and write your own story the way you weave a web... we who listen ...kind need you to make your own world to follow. Like shit or get off the pot bro. Don't be a pussy write a book and we will buy it.
ETA: 8:34 ok no toss the judas parallel new idea. Ok not really i still like the judas idea- but also DAVOS AS CLYMNESTRA. In the Illiad Agamemnon pisses of the goddess Artemis and she basically makes it so they cant sail. His bright idea is to sacrifice his virgin daughter Ipheginea. So he kills his daughter, against his wife's wishes obviously (that being Clymnestra) and sails off to war. 12 years later, he comes home with a concubine (Poor Cassandra, casualty of being in the wrong olace at the wrong time) Who Clymnestra promply launches the decade long murder plot shes been hatching for revenge- and axe murders the fuck out of Agamemnon and Cassandra both. (Some brilliant art of that as well btw, if this ever makes it into a stream) Now i dont think if Stannis burned shiteen and sailed to war i dont think Selyse would greet his return with a literal axe to grind. But Davos? If anything turned him against Stannis it would be killing his daughter- but i dont think hed be a traitor, at least not in a sneaky way, but in a "fight me you raggedy bitch" kind of way. 7:41 this interpretation also reminds me of Jesus Christ Superstar actually. That interpretation of Judas has a lot of nuance to his "betrayal" even calling into question if he was a betrayer, or setup to be a betrayer and thus actually the one who got saddled with the blame. Which also leads me back to an idea ive had brewing for a while about the azor ahai dynamic and how it almost seems like the guy wasnt 100% evil so much as he played the FAFO game and lost on world ending magnitudes. Like, I wonder if he made a deal not fully understanding Nissa Nissa was on the line, and to what extent- it would add another tragic (and very GrrM) layer to the tale if the original long night was a story of "accidentally turning your wife into a lich queen and having to do some sort of eternal battle in the magic realmto keep her at bay and atone for your sins shit."
Thank you so much!!! I’ve just found your videos and all your talk about Danny’s character arc on the show and “stabbing women is bad” makes my rage at this show for the past five years feel validated.
I think Stannis is similar to Henry VII, too. Yorks were the rulers of England and Henry showed up unexpected. Starks ruled the North and Stannis showed up enexpected. Some of the physical descriptions match: gaunt cheeks and tall. Faithful to his wife and had 1 child before marrying Elisabeth. Intelligent and efficient but unpopular. Not sure that will mean he is going to marry Sansa though. Then again Ned and Robert did want to join their houses.
What a great idea for a livestream! Cressens death will always induce such dread in me, but the way George wrote Kevans death-POV is nauseatingly terrifying lol
Could Euron's ship the silence be madre from weirwood that has being feed so much blood from sacrifices that looks red, like probably would look a weirwood tree if would be feed a massive amount of blood
I just noticed, but Robb calls for Greywind when he dies and Jon whispers for Ghost. I wonder if a warg thinks of his animal when they die because they are getting sucked into them? Or like the souls are attaching to each other? Was Orel the same? Thank you David, Nettles and Miki for a great stream! P.S. You all look great in costume and I love the thought and dedication.
