Simple brass preparation versus accuracy. How far should hunters go chasing precision and accuracy? I can't answer that question for anyone else but I can for myself.
This is an excellent video. I would go so far as to say that it is one of the best videos on the subject of case preparation in hand-loading cartridge ammunition that I've seen. Actually, I'll go even farther and say that it's the best one. One of the things that impressed me about this video is the discussion over the difference between the perceived ammo needs of sport hunters and target shooters. I used to be both a hunter and a competition shooter. And there was a time when I hunted extensively with a rifle built on a Model 1903 Springfield action, and used a full military dress Model 1903 Springfield in shooting competitions. But I didn't shoot the same ammo through each of them. I made hunting ammo for the hunting rifle and match ammo for the match rifle. And that match ammo was segregated even further by "slow fire" and "rapid fire" forms. The big difference between all of these .30-'06 handloads was in the case prep. I full-length re-sized my hunting ammo. My match ammo that went into the rifle via clip-loading for rapid fire strings was partial-length resized, while the slow-fire ammo was neck sized only. The trade-off was between ultimate precision and ultimate reliability in feeding from the magazine.
Thanks Jerrold. I know from experience how easy it is to get caught up in the search for precision and loose track of what really matters for hunting which is reliability. That extra 1/8" shaved off the group size doesn't matter in the field hunting but a stuck case sure will mess you up.
High accuracy rifle precision reminds me of NHRA drag racing. The lower the time you desire the bigger investment cost it is to get it.. and maybe its only a 5-10 percent performance gain , yet it costs a fortune in terms of money and time and sponsorship to even get in the door let alone win. Excellent video sir thank you for keeping reloading for hunting purposes realistic for us all. 😊😊
Scott, someone else said the same thing so I'll include that at the end of the video but it really is simple but slow. Just back off the full length sizer and keep slowly lowering it until you get to where you want to be.
I do anneal brass but only in order to prevent neck splitting. It’s primitive I use a torch and a socket chucked in a drill, I don’t have a fancy machine. I do bump size and have for years now. Got started on that to prevent case head separation on belted magnums. I have tried bushing dies, mandrels, and fancy micrometer seaters and although they have their place it doesn’t yield noticeably better accuracy in hunting type setups than a good old set of rcbs dies, so that’s all I use now. Good thing there’s a pile of choices and we can all be happy. Consistency creates accuracy but mental confidence plays a big role also. People laugh at me for saying that sometimes but I believe it’s true. If you believe something will fail it almost always does and vice versa.
Yeah I recently learned about NOT bumping the shoulder. 2 out of 20 carefully neck sized loads did not want to chamber today. I should have known better than to order those Lee two die sets. So I went to Midway today and ordered three different full length dies in different calibers. Now my 4 hole collets will all have a full set. Yes, I use the Lee factory crimp die too.
Tom I generally don't know how far to go on brass prep. But I try to trim to length, uniform case mouths with steel wool as opposed to chamfering tools (for accuracy), de-bur flash holes (most recent) and clean primer pockets. I recently learned about "donuts" and may have been having some problems with neck tension variation on bullets because of such. I don't really turn necks at all, so may have to discard such cases rather than buy more tools. You have much experience with donuts from resizing? I use mostly RCBS dies, about 50/50 with Lee.
I can’t help myself Tom, my ocd wants .5” to .75” group, I bump my shoulder, my two stock Winchester m70 thanks me for that. Great video, common sense down to earth sir.
Great video, finally someone that speaks common sense and add knowledge to accompany it. If your not a competition target guy...this is the deal and if you are a competition target guy, this works most of the time for anybody....cant wait for the next one
both videos were presented in a very easy to understand format of how you do these things. good stuff for sure. looking forward to the actual loading and testing.
Unless you're a match shooter, who's using the same brass multiple times per season there's zero need to worry about neck sizing. Even at that, it's very questionable. Also, I've actually purposely blocked the primer flash hole with media and it had no effect on the cartridge whatsoever. It either dislodged itself prior to firing while in the box or was simply blown out once the primer ignited.
Neck resizing problems come when u get that brass that has been shot on the end of a long run of shooting (5 or more shots in a row) the chamber at that point is larger because of the heat. Then after neck resizing one of those particular brass you’ll find that they will be tight going in or even jam. I use to neck resize all my varmint ammo. No more tho. Great educational videos from a hunter perspective like me.
Another fine video Tom (you're on quite a roll)! You're absolutely correct and everyone must answer the question of perceived needs vs real world requirements, for themselves! For me, I enjoy the reloading process very much and will tend to perform operations that will probably not meet the "can I shoot the difference?" test. While being involved in the competitive benchrest game, I did nearly everything and anything in the hopes of decreasing group size. Eventually I learned that no matter how many chickens or goats that I sacrificed during load preparation, I just couldn't shoot the difference. The one criteria I did end up using, if it didn't take too long to perform a specific operation and did not involve buying a high dollar tool, I would go ahead and perform the step. I apply the same rule to my hunting rifle reloading. In the end, these small operations do one thing and only one thing...filled me with just a tad more confidence when the next shot opportunity presents itself. Keep up the outstanding work and cheers from North Dakota!
Thanks for that Hank. I sort of dread doing these types of videos because I know most people want to hear the latest and greatest secret that will give them an edge in accuracy. And very few want to hear me say all of that just isn't needed for normal hunting, but it isn't. But someone asked to see my process so I felt obliged to show exactly what I'm doing and explain why.
It just depends on the rifle. Some rifles are harder on brass than others depending on head space and cartridge pressure. Plus how you size your brass will make a difference. I would say most are good for 4 loadings on a case. And after that you might see some splitting in the neck even if you don't have splitting of the case. If you bump the shoulder, anneal your brass, and don't use high pressure loadings then you should get significantly more loadings from a case. I hope that helps?
Thanks for the video Pt 2 Mr. River. I do wish you would have shown us newbies how you calibrate your die for full-length resizing, and how you calibrate it differently for a precise shoulder bump of X-thousandths of an inch. Also, how do you verify the amount of shoulder bump, do you use a shoulder bump gauge with a digital caliper to measure this shoulder bump-back of the case? Thanks again for sharing your knowledge, it is greatly appreciated. Take care and God bless.
Great practical discussion. I follow the bench rest and f class guys also. What they do matters for making small groups on paper, not so much for real life applications such as hunting. I see some guys that obsess so much about accuracy that they have hardly any time to actually get in the woods and hunt!
I was just saying to someone else that I would put more deer in the freezer if I just bought factory ammo and spent all of that time at the bench and range in the woods scouting instead. But it is fun trying different with loads and learning.
Great video, Tom! That's exactly how to use Hornady One Shot lube. It must be used liberally. If you use it sparingly, you will stick a case. I've only stuck 2 cases in 38 years, both with One Shot. I would have to disagree on sizing new brass. Most FL dies won't touch new brass in any meaningful way. If you run a new case all the way in, you're just needlessly working the neck. But some brass have dinged up case mouths and must at least be pushed over the expander ball. I use a Sinclair Expander Die for that. Can't wait for part 3, Tom!
Thanks and it's funny you should mention that. The necks on a couple of those Winchester cases were rough and they needed to be worked. I seriously though the case was tilted to the side and hitting the edge of the die or something when I went to run them through. We'll just say it was a sudden hard stop. But I will admit that is very rare.
I reload for hunting and for target shooting. I'm not a competitive rifle target shooter. Trap shooting is my competitive game. But I do like to shoot tight groups at the range. One MOA for hunting is just fine. If my hunting loads do a little better, well so be it. I do have a heavy barreled varmint/target rifle in .22-250. Anything over one half MOA is inadequate. On rare occasions, it will give one quarter MOA. (Okay, very rare!) Similarly for my varmint/target rifle in 6mm Remington. Interestingly, I did have one (and only one) quarter MOA group from my hunting .300 Win Mag. That was with 180 gr. Hornady InterLock flat base bullets and IMR 4831 powder. For some reason all the planets aligned on that day and I still have that target with a half inch group at 200 yards. I was so thrilled I had a couple of guys at the range with me sign the thing as witnesses.
I know that with new brass I generally run it through a full length die because out of a bag of brass over the last several years you would get dented and dinged up cases specially the case mouth’s and I always chamfered the mouths anyway so you weren’t pulling copper off your bullet when seating them
It's funny you should mention that. The thought the side of my die was hitting the rim of the case or something when I tried to run the first few through because the necks were so bent in. I've never had new brass come to such a sudden stop like that!
Great video, especially the trade offs of how much brass prep do you want to do. I find brass prep so tedious I can't hardly stand it. I frequently will trade some accuracy for convenience of Factory ammo, which shoots good enough - for hunting.
I understand completely and the biggest reason I reload is just because I enjoy experimenting and trying different things. But honestly I would put more deer in the freezer I just went and bought a box of ammo and spent all of that time at the reloading bench and range in the woods scouting instead.
Good video! I like the One Shot as well, always worked fine for me. I even spray a bit on pistol brass before running it thru my Dillon progressive loader, using carbide dies, makes it run easier and smoother, even lube isn't necessary using carbide dies. I just stand the .45 acp brass up in a loading block, and shoot a few puffs of One Shot over it. And, amen, winning is expensive. LOL
I use neck sizing for ammo that will be slow fired at range targets, and this is to extend case life. In the rifles of mine that I've compared the accuracy of neck sizing v. using a full length resizing die to move the shoulder back .002" - .003" I've had better accuracy with the full length die. YMMV.
Just out of curiosity Craig, are the rifles that gave you better accuracy push feed? I'm asking because I've heard full length or partial sizing helps concentricity but neck size doesn't and concentricity is more important with push feed rifles than control feeds?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving The two that immediately come to mind are both CRF. One is a modified P14 in .303 British, and the other a J. C. Higgins model 50, which is a FN made commercial 98 Mauser. My pet theory is that it comes down to does your die or your chamber make more concentric ammo, but this isn't really testable.
I meant to mention that, but no I do not. In the past it just wasn't worth it for me to anneal. 4 or 5 loadings from a 50 round bag of brass lasts me a really long time with hunting rifles plus I tend to shoot different rifles and then there is all of the brass that people have just given me. So I just don't go through much brass. And the one thing I never have enough of is time so I would just get new brass when needed. But with the state of things right now it might be time to start annealing?
Thanks for your reply I understand we're your coming from if you don't need to then it really would be a waist of time and if you have alot of brass like your talking about then there's no need either.and yea with they way things are going it may be a good idea to start.ive only been handloading alittle over two years and it just gives me peace of mind to anneal it may not be something that needs to be done but when I first started handloading I got 300 pieces of military brass and I've had to anneal about all of them because there were so hard but in the end I guess it all depends on what your needs are at that time.thanks again and God bless
I always start with full length sizing but then I'll bump the shoulder after that just to try and increase brass life. And I take a similar approach usually as far as accuracy and speed. I'm perfectly happy with anything under 1 inch and I generally want to be close to the high end on velocity especially if I'm setting up a rifle for longer ranges.
