Thanks for the video. I learn a lot from you and soon I am going to compete. I will say one thing and that is 10 shots isn't really a large enough group. 30 to 40 shots is better if you actually want statistically valid results. I know, nobody wants to hear that but reality is what it is. As an engineer and scientist who worked with ballistic missiles for many many years, I have a good mathematical foundation in this arena. I do all my testing with 36 shot groups. expensive? Yes. Time consuming? Yes. Valid, Yes.
ps. i dont worry about the flyers, because with that many shots it tends to average out the human error and most importantly all I want to know is what is the 95% circular error probability. Flyers gonna fly, best way to handle it is mathematically.
I've moved to larger groups as well...50 shot for rimfire lot testing....cause I need to know how much the flyers open up the dispersion......cause even cci blazer shoots ten shots pretty small.......it's those flyers that piss me off..... Centerfire I've generally gone with ten shot groups......but might start doing 25...
These groups seem very similar but I would argue that if you measured the absolute distance of each shot from the center of the group, that B17 with the nose ring group stands head and shoulders above the rest.
Hi John. After this will you follow up with a video on bullet pointing? I saw your short video on pointing, but I would appreciate an in depth one including equipment, how to and how to determine which pointer is appropriate. Thanks!
I hate to be over critical, but you said that none of these were sorted because you wanted it to be a fair test. I would argue that it would be a much more fair test if they were all sorted. If they aren't sorted, you could be seeing dispersion as a result of not sorting but interpreting it as something else. If they were all sorted, the only variable is the point and nosering. That may yield different results. I know this is just one test and that I'm being a bit nit-picky, but it's worth considering.
Gotta say John, statistically no reliable difference between these groups. Maybe take your best guess at just one modified method and run that against raw unsorted? That would be about the only way you could see if there was really any contrast between the raw baseline and all the extra work/cost. That means risking at least two or more strings to get enough samples, but since the sorting, work, and tooling are not cheap, I would think it is worth the risk to test.
Yes but concentricity of the bullet is more important than the BC. Some competition bullets have less 5 microns runout, so you can also destroy the accuracy by pointing your projectiles. So it's a balance between what you gain and what you loose.
Do you jam or jump the 180’s ? I started soft jamming just to try it a few months ago ( about .012 in from touch) holy cow. 400 rds later and have not had to move it. I shoot 500 yd club matches right now and the last 3 months brought home 2 golds and a silver. Tied the winner on points Saturday but he had me on x’s 597-31X to his 597-35 My first 4 cold bore sighters on relay one were X’s . Tons of fun. Anyway, some secret sauce there I was reluctant to share. Haha. Forgot to mention, I use the 17 insert. Even at just 500 yds . I feel like pointing them makes a difference.
I had thought about getting the nose ring tool because David Tubbs has said that using it on his 6mm 115 DTACS would aid in expansion and you could use them for hunting, but not sure if it’s worth taking the chance and having to track a deer and not find it!
Chase Stroud is a winning ELR shooter who took a Serria Match King, cut a 40 thou deep ring in it with Tubb's cutter. He said the whole tip where it was cut would collapse back into the core on impact and explode like a grenade. Sounds like fun.
I find your process and shooting skills amazing John! Something I've always wondered; when heading to a match what condition is the barrel: freshly cleaned or cleaned then fouled? For those of us who marvel at your precision any help is always appreciated. Thank you!
@@SimpleLife1971 oops sorry. If the match has unlimited sighters then I clean 100% but if it’s limited sighters I will clean a little or possibly clean them blow off before the match if possible.
John… do you see any gain in pointing bullets at 600 yards? That’s the maximum distance we can shoot at our club and since you shoot at both 600 and 1000, I wanted your opinion.
Honestly not really, at least in F Class. It's possible for something like Benchrest it is but I don't know for sure. At 1000 I can tell you it definitely help when done correctly.
I sort of find this testing confusing. I dont know anything about the nose ring, but as far as pointing goes, the need to oal sort is a must to get consistent pointing. Also length sorting in its self will group a more consistent bc. Also any of these things you are testing are not likely to show up @ 300 yards. It just seems weird to test unsorted oal seeds for what your testing. I can understand one group, but then the rest should be sorted and tested of the same length. Also your groups seem huge for fclass. Im not claiming anything, but Id expect better, even with unsorted/untouched seeds. I really hope this is just a precursor to a sorted video to show how much it can make a difference, but at the same time, it should already be painting better groups than it is.
I have been shooting the ELD-M 162’s. I have been able to get them to group well. Had no issues in the colder temps, but in the hotter summer temperatures I have had some separate and blow up on me. Haven’t shot the 180’s so no info for them.
