Loghain Mac Tir Admits His Guilt and Betrayal of the Wardens - Dragon Age Inquisition 

I'm surprised it was SOLAS who disapproved.

@@nitzan3782 well he just doesn't like them so yea

@@forger1825 But he loves knowledge!

@@nitzan3782 Bu tat this poin tew don't really know him

Well sera is easily triggered just say she's an elf or anything about elves and watch her become a twitter user

David Gaider’s, yes. His “THE STOLEN THRONE” adds so much great backstory. … I still hate Loghain, of course. Cannot get over the betrayal. ;)

Hidden Masterpieces*

That's why I usually let him live in my world states unless I really want Alistair on the throne (which isn't most of the time honestly). I have nothing against Alistair personally but he has a very childish and idealistic view of the Wardens when he thinks making Loghain a Grey Warden cheapens the order. Let's not forget that the order has accepted many thieves and criminals (Daveth and Duncan himself to name a few). Besides, the whole motto of the Grey Wardens is that ''the end justifies the means'' which is basically Avernus experiments and DAI blood magic in a nutshell... Overall, I just have to agree with Riordan, making Loghain a Grey Warden is a logical sensible choice aswell as a good redemption/punishment for him (I also really like his dialogue in Awakening).

@@requiem5151 I don't think Alistair thinks Loghain would cheapen the order because he's not honorable enough but because he actively tried to kill all the wardens in Ferelden. That said, I still agree with the fact that Riordan's propositon would be the best thing to do under those circumstances. By the way, you can still have Loghain join the order and Alistair as king if you harden him in his side quest. He will say that since nobody gives a shit about him (Loghain, Anora, Riordan and the Warden) he will just become king and take the matter in his own hands. I had a playthrough where I actually romanced him as a female city elf and ended up breaking up because of this. It was kinda tragic but it was also kinda cool, made everything feel more realistic

@@requiem5151 you can have loghain alive and alistair ruling at the same time

I KNOW, RIGHT? I was like, I have to post this, PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW.

He tends to not live long enough for this game in my PTs.

​@@JnEricsonx You should give him a try tho, I find him more interesting than either Stroud or Alistair. It's also a good punishment aswell as a logical choice to add more people to the Wardens (I agree with Riordan). Besides, you can always choose him over Hawke in the Fade and don't feel bad about it.

@@coffeeminx746 Thank you! 🙏 Time to play Dragon Age again. 😅

Me neither, but in my defense, i always kill him. I guess the real choice is whether or not you want to let Loghain atone for his betrayal, or kill him him as punishment. Both valid choices.

I think canon Hawke is a blood mage… I mean, he is in the original advertisement. 🤣

At least I like to think my hawke for blood magic she intend only using people against their will or sacrifice, but she is fine with her blood. Second she is with chanty military order so she thinks it is better to fake hate for blood magic

Amen!

Let me guess...his b*tch daughter right?

Honestly marrying Alistair and Anora, and taking Loghian to fight the Archdemon has always been my favourite outcome. The thought of Loghain seeking penance for what hes done rather than enacting vengeance is, to me, both more interesting and satisfying. This also lets me leave him to die in Hawke's place in the fade, which completes a pretty complex character arc for him.

I don't Anora got three strikes from me, it's her actions that condems her father.

@@Kraziel797 The sins of the daughter are the sins of the dad eh?

This is SO TRUE. :)

Threnn believes an abject lie. The size of the Darkspawn horde was irrelevant - Loghain was ALWAYS going to desert Cailan and the Wardens. I dont know why Bioware wrote dialogue pretending this isnt the case. Especially if you played a Cousland and imported that save. The ONLY reason Arl Howe acted and massacred the Couslands is because he already knew of the chaos Loghain was about to unleash and than as his stooge hed get away with it. Biowares attempts to add "complexity" to a thoroughly evil and petty character are a joke. Loghain was a worm and that was the entire appeal in taking him in to the Wardens: giving the player the chance to put the Wardens tolerance to the test and recruit someone so awful. Threnn and others like her, including Solas and his fade bs were wrong.

@@jmlaw8888 In Solas's defense, he was in Uthenera throughout the Fifth Blight, and only heard the hearsay impressions left in the Fade.

​@@jmlaw8888 I believe that it's also implied in the Broken Circle quest that Uldred may have been "in cahoots" with Loghain long before the events of DA:O.

I love the World State website for DAI, that was SUCH a great idea. I’m able to try choices that I would never be able to go through with during the game.

@@coffeeminx746I agree. 😊

They would never have won that fight wtf, even if the tower of Ishal hadn't been overrun.

So Loghain sends his forces in and then what The hoard keeps coming and can't be stopped until the Archdemon shows up which it wouldn't for near on a year and tell me how long do you think they could hold out? Certainly not long enough for reinforcements So all the Ferelden wardens, the king and Loghain's forces fight until they die anyway, leaving Anora vunreble to Orlais because believe it or not the Orliesan's have a long history of using the blight to expand their territory The remaining Ferelden leadership wouldn't be weakened by civil conflict but the overall fate of Ferelden would be far more shaky given its entirely expected for multiple countries to fall to the blight It's hard to say if it would have been worse in the long run and there are other crimes for which Loghain can be judged but ostagar was a screw up from the mind of a man child who wanted to be a hero like his father without really understanding what that means

Personally I don't think he'd ever admit that and besides t be fair to Loghain in that instance w eonl ysee bits and pieces of that fight not the whole picture. Granted he was wrong to abandon his king but as he quite rightly pointed out at the Landsmeet he had more lives to think about than just Cailan. I generally kill him at the Landsmeet too but I can see why he chose to act this way. It' smore the crimes he committed after Ostagar that for me he needed punishment for. Things like sending assasins afte rthe wardens poisoning Eamon interfering with Chantry business when the ywere trying to arrest Jowan stuff like that really.

First of all, regardless of whether they could win the fight, they could have at least helped their comrades retreat rather than leaving them al to die. Second, regardless, Loghain did not leave that fight for any tactical reason. He did it because he wanted Cailan to die. He would do ANYTHING to prevent Orlais troops from coming into Ferelden. That was his only motivation. And, that is what I want him to admit.

@@josephford2226 actually first of all let's get out of the way that tactics do matter and if it really was exclusively to kill Calian there are less messy ways to do that without massive loss of life The kings forces were overwhelmed and there was no helping them retreat, it was do the plan or not and if you'll recall Loghain was very vocally against that plan and like I've mentioned the Orliesan's have used blights to invade The empress was trying to get Calin to leave Anora for her and it was(debatably)working so it's not unreasonable to think she might resort to old tricks and beyond that Ferelden was occupied by Orlais for over 80 years and free for less than thirty 30, who would honestly look at someone with Loghain's position and say he's no reason to feel that way? Now here's where things get a bit wonky because DA:O is very inconsistent with its timeline of events because on the one hand Calian ignored Loghain's advice to wait for Eamon's forces but the events that kicked of redcliff had to already be starting(so the game requires Eamon to both be in contact with Calian and already be posined)there's evidence that the king argued against Eamon who was suggesting he leave Anora and evidence that he was actively thinking about getting with Celine(on top of that it's very open to interpretation how much is Howe acting alone in Loghain's name but that's neither here nor there for the actual battle) And if you want Loghain to admit he doesn't care about Calian then let him live and take him to ostagar, he wants Calian to be forgotten and his feelings on the king as an individual don't make the above less true, in fact he promised Maric not to prioritise the life of the king over the greater number(that Maric was referring to himself is besides the point) and this was a promise made after a very disastrous battle so there is in a twisted sense an underlying adherence to that promise Like I said its a whole mess getting into everything else especially because of the games inconsistencies but his actions at ostagar being the right and only call taken in isolation, 100% all of Loghain's men shouldn't have to die digging Calian out of a ditch he crawled into despite being advised not to

I AGREE!

I agree! While retreating might have been a wise choice considering the fire was lit too late and the battle was already going horribly, blaming the Wardens and literally hunting down the survivors was absolutely not necessary. Sure, admitting the retreat would have enraged the people, but a good strategist who has no honor has no right to rule over others. Besides his hatred towards Orlais, while understandable, completely blinded him. Not to mention he allied himself with Howe and sold citizens into slavery. That alone should be enough to despise the man. I appreciate the character, of course, but hate the man. The only good thing that came from his treachery was meeting Zevran, the love of my Warden's life.

Not to mention he made plans to kill his own daughter just to frame Arl Eamon. The big kicker, the game punishes you for killing him.

@@darksorceressharuko ROFL I never thought of that!!

@@kamantariq2513 No, Alistair will reject you and leave your party if you spare Loghain and you’ll never see him again. UNTIL DA2 when he will APPEAR IN THE HANGED MAN as a drunkard who mumbles about how he could have been a king and no one believes him. 😿

⁠@@coffeeminx746this is incorrect. Alistair can either leave or become king if Loghain lives.

@@Dan-tb7vn Really?? He always leaves in my experience. How do you get him to stay?

​@@coffeeminx746if you make him hardened through dialogue he agrees to become king by himself but then he slays Loghain anyway. So you have to "mellow" him to marry his half sister Anora and then you can spare loghain but he leaves the party of course.

@@mrmasky9783 Cool! 😎 Thanks!

Loghain himself says you’re wrong. But cool story, bro.

He kind of did betray the wardens... not at Ostagar, mind you (that is a topic i ain't touching with a ten foot pole), but afterwards. The wardens are all that you said, even Duncan is shady as fuck... but the last two wardens are so green around the edges that neither is inducted in the order enough to make them an integral part of the machinations, plus, both are from Ferelden territory. Naming them public enemy number one and dismissing any clout grey wardens had with the public was his betrayal. it sparked the civil war, forced him to name himself reagent (essentially calling his daughter a useless ruler in the eyes of the nobility) and every other shit choice he's made. Becoming a warden opened his eyes at exactly how much he'd nearly fucked up on the matter.

You're wrong. It's pretty cut and dry in DAO he had plotted the entire thing, lmao. Now, *why* he did it may be more nuanced--but he 100% did so.

Did you just willfully ignore him declaring the wardens responsible for what happened at the Battle of Ostagar? How about the side quests in Origins that reveal Loghain hired mercenaries and assassins (not just the crows) to hunt down and kill any wardens who survived Ostagar and may be hiding in Ferelden? His betrayal of the Wardens at least is pretty cut and dry.

He didn't seem particularly broken up over it during the Ostagar cutscene in the battle when he pulled his troops out. Listen, I love Loghain as a character. But there's no way his trauma excuses the Ostagar battle, blaming it on the Wardens and dare I even mention the whole slave-trading stuff in the alienage? That wasn't Howe. That was Loghain. The slavers specifically mention they spoke to Loghain. Trauma or not, he was responsible for so many people at Ostagar. He's the brilliant strategist around there. The entire strategy talk is him bashing all the ideas that even suggest getting help from any outside source. Heck, even his daughter who loves him very much admits that he's going too far and needed to be stopped. Now, I doubt he was particularly villainous while planning this. He probably convinced himself that it was the right thing to do. That doesn't mean that it was. His admitting at the Landsmeet and in this video that he was wrong says plenty about it. Even he says he's wrong. Ser Cauthrien (I think she was one of his soldiers in DAO?) also admits he's changed if you convince her before the landsmeet.