We are given the opportunity in BG3 to play either a so-called Lolth Sworn Drow or a Seldarine Drow but what does that mean historically and what could it mean in the game? This video explores this topic. Thumbnail By: / satirn0
I appreciate that if you choose “Lolth-Sworn Drow” for Race and then choose Cleric for Class that you don’t get the choice of being a Cleric of anything other than Lolth. I totally expected that would be the type of thing that they’d take a shortcut around rather than enforcing that choice. Very nice 👏
Okay, so it literally means Lolth sworn. I wanted to play as an evil male drow Who escaped the underdark, and became a cleric of Bane. It seems I'll have to select the other kind of Drow.
@@philipboardman1357 Loth enslaves the Drow and the own civilization of Drow enforces the law and will of Lolth so no good Drow in the city and all praise Lolth the sub race of Drow thats not Lolth Sworn is just what you described, a Drow who escaped Lolth and yes you can do what you want and that subrace will also acknowledge that you left lolth behind
@@shinobishaw7542 My second play is a Priest of Lloth, plan to have Shadowhert go dark in this one, had her go light first play. You know Lloth and Shar are a lot close to each other. Going to be a tag team to take down the Absolute and such in the name of there gods. Though all evil like, allready killed all the tieflings and druids.
I wanted to do a Lolth Sworn Drow w/ Durge. Which explains the characters backstory about being Evil previously, but eventually find redemption through Eilistraee. But idk if the game will let me be that expansive.
@@tristanwilson1186From what I heard, they both share some Drow dialogue, but otherwise Seldarine convos boil down to “Well im not THAT kind of Drow”, and Lolth sworn is basically just praising the spider queen or being excessively evil. They’re unfortunately not that expansive but Seldarine might work for you instead. I’m planning on being a Durge Seldarine Drow in my second playthrough
@errorx_x1063 nah, she'd fight you in her spider form and Pentwater you with one of her legs before you'd ever get close enough to even try to stab her. She's an evil goddess, after all.
Something most of you know but I’m throwing it out anyway: the book series about Drizzt Do’Urden (by R.A. Salvatore) is amazing if you’re fascinated by the drow’s culture. Most of the first book takes place in their capital in the Underdark, Menzoberanzan, and given the main character is a defecting “Lolth-sworn” drow, you learn a fuckton about their societal structure & all that. In a weird way, they feel like a parallel to North Korea to me- They have one main god/ruler that everyone fears & is forced to praise. They are isolated from the rest of the world. It’s hard to tell how many people are actually in love with their leader, and it feels more like everyone has just been scared to death by the cruel methods used to keep the people in line. Tangent; apologies. But I’d highly recommend this series to anyone who is as fascinated by the Drow as I am. Loved this video, and praise Lolth. But also fuck Lolth; I’d stab her in a heartbeat. Oddly enough she’s probably respect that.
My only complete playthrough that included the Grymforge so far has been as a Seldarine Drow. As far as I could tell, most of the NPCs were not making a distinction between Lolth Sworn, and Seldarine, but I continue to be impressed with the unique interactions that Larian has included for the various Races. Another good video on the Lore, which enhances the experience of a game that coninues to improve patch by patch, and impress.
I have noticed two interactions. If you interact with the spiders in the goblin camp and you follow Lolth, you can get special dialogue and there is another time when you can explain to someone (and I forgot who, forgive me) that you are not Lolth Sworn.
I have also had the spider interaction but I think most of the dialogue attitudes specific to lolth sworn drow are more you using your heritage to intimidate, deceive or belittle. Very few npc can even tell the difference half-drow and the regular to my knowledge. I wish they would add some interaction with the spider matriarch because I remember some documents in the cave of someone studying the spiders and wanting to become one of them. I died many times before confirming there's no dialogue there. Only death.
One thing about the seldarine drow that worship illustra (however you spell it) is that a major goal of theirs is to convert the Lolth sworn drow. They are known to be waging a holy war of sorts against lolth and try to use subterfuge to convert the drow under her control. Would be a cool interaction between the 2 types of drow in Bg3
A well made video, but I would like to add another historic fact. The crown wars weren't caused by the dark elves but by the sun elves. The sun elves attacked the Kingdom of Miyeritar the stronghold of Eilistraee and casted a spell that annihilated the entire population of Miyeritar. Because of this act of cruelty many dark elves started seeking Lolth's aid in combating the sun elf invaders.
Thanks for this. I chose Seldarine Drow as the race for my custom character (and I'm not nearly as savvy as you), and your video has vindicated nearly all of the race-related choices I've made since then. Always a good feeling.
I personally find the Dark Elves lore, their society, Lolth and Eilistraee fascinating. Would love to see it somehow shown in a small video in bg3. No doubt that would help guys new to D&D to understand all this.
The book series about Drizzt Do’Urden (by R.A. Salvatore) is amazing if you’re fascinated by the drow’s culture. Most of the first book takes place in their capital in the Underdark, Menzoberanzan, and given the main character is a defecting “Lolth-sworn” drow, you learn a fuckton about their societal structure & all that. In a weird way, they feel like a parallel to North Korea to me- They have one main god/ruler that everyone fears & is forced to praise. They are isolated from the rest of the world. It’s hard to tell how many people are actually in love with their leader, and it feels more like everyone has just been scared to death by the cruel methods used to keep the people in line. Tangent; apologies. But I’d highly recommend this series to anyone who is as fascinated by the Drow as I am.
In-game tooltips state that Seldarine Drow are not beholden or sworn to Lolth and live in the Underdark under one of many shattered city-states that may or may not be warring against each other, and still prone to being as nice as the Underdark allows them to, which is not very much. Apparently it isn't simply a Lolth vs Eilistraee conflict, there are stragglers and those who are not involved in the holy wars at all, and the Underdark is much more expanse than we seem to believe.
Among the various characters in Faerun you can't but help adore Elistraee, she's just too good to fall in love with how she's written, though sadly she's biased to females 😭(there goes any paladin build I wanted)
Not sure about the video game mechanics (haven't played early access), but in the D&D lore some of her priests are male. With that in mind she should also be fine for paladins.
The Lady does allow all genders as priests as of 5e and I was certain that Paladins had no restrictions on that count. But that is just what I heard prior to the new Drow cannon.
@@transient_moonlight But only since her rebirth during the Second Sundering. before she had been murdered all her priest were female. A male could become priest but would inevitably become female too.
Cool video I always thought drow were inherently cursed by the gods, which rubbed me the wrong way, as converted/escaped drow still had sunlight sensitivity and things, but if it was a messy desperate effort by other mortals, it makes more sense that all dark elves have these traits, and tells a cooler story
What a great video! I have decided I want to play a Drow because I like the fact that there are such visceral reactions to them! The hard part is what type of Drow? Your video did a great job explaining the difference between the choices. It is still a difficult choice. 😮
This feels like the way a Star Wars “Legends” video does. That is… given the way that the story feels like it has been since retconned through R.A. Salvatore’s latest two novels “Starlight Enclave” and “Glacier’s Edge” (…and I guess parts of the preceding “Generations” trilogy also). That said… the whole who-betrayed-who-when aspect of Drow history was hard for me to keep track of. The idea of the Udadrow seeking the cavern in the Underdark as shelter from the wars of conquest on the surface and slowly being corrupted over time by the faez’ress and Lolth’s words…. is simpler and more appearing I think.
TSR - Wizards of the Coast had some amazing Forgotten Realms novels that delved into the Drow. Paperback novels. Might be available as E-Books. Try the Dritz DuUrden and Menzoberizan (Underdark) series. Amazing novels.
. Fine work, Sir. Fine work indeed. I will endeavor to share your name and works as i make my rounds amongst the sages and scribes of The Sea of Falling Stars. I hope you and yours remain safe and well during these trying times of Plague, War, and Madness.
My knowledge of the deep lore is weak at best, and I didn't have early access to BG3. All I'd like to add is that I'm playing a Seldarine Drow and while still early in Act I, I've already encountered a few Seldarine dialogue choices and reactions that are quite specific.
It's crazy I read the legend of drizzt series and icewind dale series when I was like 15 and now I'm listening to the audiobook. This whole time I didn't know it was a part of the D&D world and bg3 has basically the world of drizzt in it. kind of wild how much I can dive into that world
My biggest gripe, so far, with a Lolth Sworn Cleric, is that there seems to be no way to get a Scourge (Snake-headed Whip). A Lolth Cleric should have a Scourge, with heads on it equal to her station. Maybe this is only in Menzobarranzan's society but it would still be cool to obtain one while you're in the Underdark. I really hope they do more with the Underdark and let you go into Drow Houses and Society a little more. Still hoping to see any mention in BG3 of the Companions of the Hall or Jarlaxle, Artemis Entreri OR Athrogate.
Neither, Eilistraee the dark maiden is technically a member of neither pantheon, she is opposed to Lolth and only an ally of the Seldarine, my drow worships her so, technically neither.
to answer the question you out in the title: I will play as my regular 5e D&D character: a female Selûne worshipping Seldarine Drow monk of the Order of the Sun Soul.
Big same. I keep wishing there was some sort of in-between that made easy sense for a drow that wasn't as bad as lolth but also wasn't what frankly comes off as one of the gods most strongly aligned to good.
Lolth is maybe the most evil god in the Forgotten Realms next to Shar. You're painting yourself into a real corner of how you can RP a character like that as you always have to be evil and can't be pragmatically neutral. Like helping some in need just because you know it will benefit you in the long run.
I've played pragmatically neutral Lolth-sworn drow in my first PT. Helped people but then "hey ass, I don't care about you gratitude, valuables, now". Started 4th PT, again, as a Lolth-sworn drow, but she's also durge. Now that'll be some bloody adventure. Take a look at Minthara, for example. She's Lolth-sworn too, but she has abandoned Lolth and if you help her she then shits on gods and says she wants to do whatever she wants for herself, not for gods. So can any Lolth-sworn I guess, if they're lucky enough to reach the surface.
@@Tauriz_ You can't be Lolth-sworn and abandon Lolth at the same time. I have a feeling you have no knowledge of how religion works at all. It's like you can't say you're a Ford driver only when it was 30 years ago you owned a Ford and now only drive Chevrolet. Or you can't say you're MAGA and then vote for Biden.
@@dribrom dude, the character sheet... Tell that to the devs. Minthara has abandoned Lolth and still her character sheet says she is a Lolth-sworn. While it's obvious she's not, it's easier to say Lolth-sworn as a reference to the red-eyed ruthless drows, nothing more, nothing less. Stop assuming someone doesn't know something based on a single comment.
@@dribrom well, I was talking about the game, not about what it's based on. Being a DND fan is cool and all, but if the game says it's possible within its setting - I'll accept that. I'm not pretending to be an expert in DND, in fact, I haven't even played it once, mostly because it's not popular in my country, so I just know what's in the game and a little from DND wiki that I read cuz it was interesting in some parts.
Vhaeraun, and Selvetarm, are not seladrine gods. Even Eilistraee is considered banished from the seladrine for her unwitting part in Lolth’s attempted regicide and coup.
So I was thinking of me in bg3 as a lolth sworn that with time in the surface with friends would stop worshipping lolth, is it possible? Would be a traitor to lolth so to speak
This wasn’t for the game but for dnd specifically. I actually chose a drow character for my first dnd game I have played. A part of my backstory I made for him was that he is surface born but his mother was not. So I guess the term is that she was a Lolth drow, at least, raised so, and her child is not. Her child is the one I play but he is an adult at the point in his life I play. So this information is very good for me and has helped me figure out more about his own experience and cultural heritage. Thanks for the video. It’s added a good perspective for me.
@@thodan467 I did specifically make the mother a follower of Eilistraee. Her past is, otherwise, mysterious to her oldest child, my character. She doesn’t like to talk about it. However she did tell him about a few things that are underdark related and teach him undercommon. Least that is what I have designed so far.
I have a rather similar charater, though he was raised by both his parents, an underdark born priestess of Eilistraee and a noble born Moon Elven man who accidently enlisted the help of a group of Eillistraee's clergy in dealing with a demon that was hunting him (let's just say this charater's moon elven grandfather would fit in rather well if you changed his race and chucked him in with a bunch of lolth-sworn drow aside from the fact that he's a man who holds a not entirely insignificant amount of power). Jar has been taught Undercommon and has a more detailed understanding of typical drow society than most Moon Elven nobility to be sure. His family is currently stuck in a blackmail stalemate between threats of revealing the demon contracts and marrying a drow things, but that's more because Jar's father is planning to try and deal with his father but needs to gather allies/wait until his son is a proper adult (Jar's 98 so it's only a couple years away) Jar ended up with the party because a quest related to his coming of age went array. The scary part is he's been tasked with being the moral backbone of a part of the party when we had to split up and the poor boy looks more like a drow than a Moon elf by far. Also fun given the party sometimes just calls him 'The Moon Elf' (underdark campaign and there is another drow around) so we earn some very confused looks that way.
I'm completely new to Baldur's Gate, but I'm interested in playing the game when it fully releases on Mac. I was thinking of playing a very religious good Seldarine Drow but I don't know the lore at all. So in my like one day of "researching" I figured I would play a Cleric and worship a deity, but I don't know who to go with. Based on this video Eilistraee seems to make the most sense. But I was also wondering if Corellon would make any sense as the creator of the elves?
Tbh, i'd chose some deity like Tymora instead if i will be able to. Lolth is a monster, Seldarine managed to not notice that most powerful of their kingdoms were corrupted by demons during Crown Wars and then followerd of Seldarine exiled all dark elves into Underdark including mieritari who had nothing to do with illitiiri cruelities, if i am not mistaken. So i don't think that theoretical good-aligned or pragmatic neutral drow would find neither worthy of worshiping.
Seldarine drow in baldurs gate may be the first time many have been introduced to direct lore about these elves. They have never had a significant novel written about them, and without that, the cool factor, for this kind of drow goes out the window... Whats the point of playing the dark mysterious drow without the dark lolth background and connection to menzoberranzan. Anyone familiar with those R.A Salvatore books know those are the true drow. And that these drow are just an attempt to let players play drow without the stigma.... but its just that stigma, that made Drizzt Do'Urden cool.
I usually play as elf in crpg and planned to play as high elf in BG3 but recently i decided that i will play as seldarine drow - sexy goddess dancing naked in the moonlight is what won me over. Also, Drizzt was never cool.
@@Godunow100 Then you never read the Drizzt books, if you just going by the general concept of either side its like debating who is better goku or superman without ever reading any of there comics or watching their shows. The authors is why Drow exist in the first place and Drizzt is the reason Drow became so popular. Then some game designer came in and said lets make drow but different and not evil... I KNOW! HEDONISM. that will bring in the ignorant players to support it.
@@scetchmonkey007I read the dark elf trilogy and the legacy of drow series i early 2000's. Then I turned 16 and stopped wasting time on mediocre fantasy literature.
@@Godunow100 Your going to have to follow that up by saying what is better fantasy literature. I'm sure there is an Army of R.A. Salvatore fans out there ready to linch you just by making that comment. So... do you have an author you'd place above R.A. Salvatore? Or are you just spotting nonsense out your arse like any old rando on the internet? Truly your not suggesting that the game designers that wrote the new drow lore are better authors than Salvatore?
I'm currently around 20 hours into my first playthrough of Baldur's Gate 3. My character is a Lolth-Sworn Drow GOOlock. I've never been overly interested in Drows and kind of treated them as the "evil elves". Especially since that's how they're mostly portrayed in Baldur's Gate 2. Since I wanted my character to be kind-of evil or at least chaotic neutral, I went for what's in my opinion the most fitting race-class combination - Lolth-Sworn Drow and Goolock. What I didn't realise though is how broad of a term being evil even is. SPOILERS AHEAD. So far I met a couple bad guys - Ethell, Minthara (and all the other Goblin leaders), Raphael (only the initial cutscene) and I must say that they're all just a couple of weirdos. Obviously, I didn't even expect the game to have straightforward good and bad sides, but is there really any reason a truly "evil" character would ever ally themselves with, let's say, Ethell? Any dnd player would know that dealing with Hags is a terrible idea, as they're prone to manipulation and betrayal. I decided that for RP purposes the smartest decision would be to simply kill her. Same thing with the Goblin Leaders. As a loyal Lolth devotee, allying with those heretics and their Absolute would make no sense. Now everyone treats me like a god damn hero though.
There isn't any meaningful choices in the terms of BG3 for Lolth or Seldarine, just a few dialog lines that don't actually affect anything. BG3 only loosely follows lore and the rules for the sake of appealing to a broad market and being easier to play/develop for.
Drow became popular as dark elves, and that is their main appeal. Powerful, evil, weird. Any other kind of drow takes away from that while also depending on it.
Lolth`s story remided me of Medusa`s one а bit. Medusa as many other "evil" females in myths usually describes as monsters without considering their inner motives and humanity which is the result of patriarchal biases in society and victim blaming culture. But there's a perspective in which Medusa was raped and then turned into monster and then killed by himbo "hero" very brutally, so her story is actually tragic. I feel like Lolth could be similar, the way elves punished all drow not caring for the good ones, further marginalize the whole race, feel very entitled and not very "good". Like those stories about mighty "heroes" who are actually privileged ignorant shits. Lolth could be a good lady who experienced some shit and wanted to get out or punished them, or maybe wanted to make some elves rebel against that or something, but everyone treated her like a monster and her anger consumed her and after the curse puted uppon her she like finnaly didnt give a shit anymore and became the one to be feared. That could make her story so much more tragic and deeper then "she just was evil"
Loth sworn what type of question is that? why be a drow if your not gonna be ewiiiiil~~~ plus the entire point of a drow is being sworn to loth i really never liked the other option sounds like a cheap homebrew for people who are scare of RP a drow but want to look like one, honest i don't see the point of the other at all there is so much value and culture and story onto the drow already and just changing to "not all drows are bad~~" kinda deal is really lame
@@Kunkali nobody cares about the good drows, those are for people who are scare of Races having their own lore culture and unique twist if your gonna be a Drow you gotta follow Loth, go play a normal elf if you wanna do a Good Elf it's almost as bad as the trend of making Orc's smart and Lawful good, just remove all the fun of the race and it becomes a Green Human Skin *shrugs* people this days~
