I once worked with a Mr Morden. I couldn’t resist always greeting him with “Ahhhhh Mr Morden”.. He eventually asked me why I did it. I explained about Londo, and Babylon 5 in general. He then watched the whole series, and told me he laughed when it came to that scene.. It’s my favourite in the whole Babylon 5 story arc.. 🙂
Did you force your voice to imitate Peter Jurasik accent? 😁 It is indeed a dream of every B5 fan to meet a Mr Morden, provided he does not work for any space Mordor company 💀
Londo Mollari is one of the greatest sci-fi characters of all time. And I'd have to split the credit for that 50-50 between creator/writer J. Michael Straczynksi and actor Peter Jurasik. A schemer, an opportunist, a hedonist ... but above all else: a patriot. Very compelling stuff.
He and G'Kar played by the late Andreas Katsulas were really a great combination and the evolution of their characters was bringing the series forward. Not as we see in many other shows where the characters always follow the same pattern week after week except when you get to the final episode where they suddenly evolve.
I love when Londo tells Vir that he has a gift for him & it's Morden's head on a pike in the courtyard, Vir goes out & waves at his head. Vir has got major nads of steel.
"So what are you going to do Molari, blow up the island?" It was this scene that reminded me of a truism in the Babylon 5 universe. Never play poker with a Centauri.
@@Darqshadow Much much worse than a simple evisceration. Vivisection starts with hammering a blade the length of the sternum and spreading the rib cage. Then organs are removed one by one from the least important to the heart. Arteries are sealed to prevent premature death from blood loss. The lungs are left in until the end so the victim can still scream. Oh and all of this happens while the victim is fully conscious and without anything to dull the pain.
Londo has the saddest plot arc in the series. He starts off as a deplorable monster, but when he meets real monsters, he flinches, and tries to stop what is already too late to stop. After finally making amends, he learns the harsh truth, that the Drakh are controlling the Centauri emperors with parasites. Londo has to willingly accept this fate or watch Centauri burn. It's so sad when he tells Sheridan that they are friends, and to remember that, no matter what happens. He knows what will happen, and that he will bear the hatred of trillions before he dies.
I agree with this with one exception. Londo started as a joke. He was comedy relief. Then he went on to become the most tragic character of the whole series. All he wanted to do is help his people and wound up almost destroying them.
@@jeffhyche9839 "All he wanted to do is help his people and wound up almost destroying them." Not true in my opinion. At the beginning he wanted power and he did what he could to obtain it. There wasnt any ulterior motiv to it. That was what drew the shadows to him in the first place. That changed step by step when he started to realize, what price he and others had to pay for his association with the shadows. And once he was fully aware of that, there was no turning back for him anymore.
Londo could have taken a far different path. It probably wouldn't have changed anything but he probably would have born a far different fate. Also Londo had a little voice on his shoulder telling him all the things he was doing wrong and offering him better choices. That voice's name was Vir. So yeah, Londo really has no excuse. That being said he DID technically do all 3 things Emperor Turhan's wife told him to do to avoid eternal damnation so maybe he did alter his fate, at least in a small tiny way?
It is strange the Drakh along with the other Shadow servants don't join forces. It was the Shadows fighting in the previous wars against the other First Ones.
@@DanielAppleton-lr9eq Yes, but Londo always put his people and his world first. If Morden had taken the ships and left that would've been the end of it. He likely knew that he wouldn't. But he had to try.
@@zephyr8072 Morden was *way, WAY* overconfident, & he made a TRULY AWFUL, unfortunate blunder - Underestimating Londo. Londo had ceased being a joke ambassador assigned to B5 *as a joke* . He was a truly dangerous man when he had proper motivation.
Possibly one of the best scenes of the whole show, with Peter Jurasik's wonderful portrayal of Londo Mollari. B5 remains a severely underrated show IMHO. The character story arcs were among the best in sci-fi.
@ZakhadWOW (1) Atmosphere absorbs signals which limits range. (2) Because the planet is curved, the Shadow ships cannot see beyond the horizon… which is only 3-6 miles if the attacking Centauri ships fly low. This tactic is used by jets & missiles to hide from radar. (3) Morden was obviously frightened seeing the First Ones who are all-powerful suddenly get destroyed. I would not expect coherency from him .
I do have to wonder about Mordin’s visceral reaction to the bombing. He’s not just some puppet or willing collaborator, he acted as if his people, as in his own species, were the ones getting blown up. Not only that, but it looked like he was in actual pain, if only limited. I wonder just how deeply he had become tied to the shadows.
I dont think that at that point there was much, if anything, left of the original person, save for the memories. Iirc the shadows basically molded his mind as they needed it for him to become the perfect puppet, when the captured the transport he was on.
Jeanne Cavelos' technomage trilogy has it where he has an implant or something that keeps him in contact with the Shadows and, presumably, the abrupt cutting of the connection is what struck him.
I got the impression that like the middleman, Morden was a true believer in the shadows philosophy... unlike Anna... He was hurt maybe because of loss of connection, but it was more that he'd overplayed his hand... he was so convinced of his own superiority and power... Sheridan was a fulcrum point, a legitimate threat, but Londo was always a weakling he could manipulate... Don't make the mistake of assuming you need a psychic link to an outer evil to do horrific things...
@@catacomber8 it really holds up because even though the special effects are dated it doesn't effect your enjoyment of the show because yeah it's a sci-fi show but the messages it putting out into the world is amazing no matter the genre.
Morden was a servant. Even if he'd wanted to, he couldn't have ordered those ships to leave. Londo was always going to have to use the nukes. Londo knew that. I think this whole scene wasn't really to get the Shadows to leave peacefully, which was never on the table. I think it was for the benefit of the guards and other Centauri. He wanted them to see him trying to be reasonable and Morden 'forcing' him to blow up the island.
By blowing up the Shadow ships, Londo would also kill his people who volunteered to stay behind to keep the Shadows from suspecting a plot. Londo wasn't giving the Shadows one last chance. He was giving his volunteers one last chance.
@@DanielAppleton-lr9eq No I think he survived as he cooperated from the beginning. Sheradin's wife was not killed, but implanted in a ship as an unwilling bio-processor, but removed when they learned who she was connected to.
All these years later, I just now noticed that the island looks a lot like Sicily and is called Selene, on a planet with a very roman/italian styled civilization.
You can tell that even though Londo knows what Morden did to Adira he would let the bastard go if it removed the Shadows/threat from Centuri Prime and spared them from the Vorlons. But you can also tell he's happy when Morden decides to play it the hard way.
Really? I didn't think he would let Morden go either way. The reason he said he would have preferred it if Morden cooperated was that blowing up the island also killed all the innocent Centauris who stayed behind to make it look like the island wasn't abandoned.
@@flamingspinach Nah. I don't think the Shadows would have allowed Morden to die. They do seem to value loyalty. If it meant the Shadows left peacefully, Londo would let Morden go. But I think he knew they weren't going to go for that.
@@flamingspinach Londo always loved his nation above all else, he wouldn't have put them at risk just for his revenge. But you can bet the moment Centauri Prime wasn't at stake, Morden would've learned just how hard it is to evade the leader of the Centauri.
I notice that detail as well. They were briefed well beforehand. Also not how he 2 on either side of Londo were the only ones carrying the big rifles. The guards on the hall side of the door had standard rifles, the guards escorting Mordin had pistols, but the guards next to Londo had the big rifles. Hmmmmm....
Sadly even if Morden and the Shadows did die, the Drakh made sure to get revenge on Londo. Londo still got the last laugh after years of being their puppet by engineering their downfall, but the mess cost even more lives.
"And speaking of you're associates....we must make sure we can talk privately." The guards slowly back away "Do not move." Gunfire. The guards move back into position, including the one's outside as if this stuff happens all the time. "I'll have to paint that over I suppose." This entire episode was a gem, I had been waiting for Morden to get his comeuppance for four seasons.
Londo Mollari has possibly the greatest character arc of everyone on that show ... and that's saying something. This scene was definitely his greatest moment, and one that we were all waiting for. Also ... shout out to the Centauri who "knew what was being asked of them". Gangsta!
To be fair Londo gave him a choice to leave, and not many people will do that. If you see someone offering a choice to get out alive, then take it. Otherwise be careful, many people have sides that no one can figure out right until the end.
Even now this fantastic series stands the test of time: and why not? Marvelous scripts performed marvellously by actors at the top of their trade. I have seen some brilliant sci fi series over the years, but this is my favourite. The icing on the cake in this series was Vir waving at Morden's head - just as he had promised.
I like to think that although Morden was a servant of the Shadows, his understanding of humans and humanoids effectively made him the boss of the specific unit he was part of.
My wife and I have been re-watching BABYLON 5 from the beginning the past couple of weeks, and we just got to this scene last night. This is my favorite Londo scene in the entire series, and it's a tremendous credit to both creator/writer Joe Straczynski and the actors, Ed Wasser and Peter Jurasik. It's amazing how well it all holds up even after nearly three decades! My only question: Assuming that the Shadows can only keep themselves cloaked while alive, why didn't we see their corpses on the floor after Londo's soldiers blasted hem?
I think like the vorlon, they've evolved to a certain point as first ones where they're not entirely physical. Look what humanity eventually became when they got their own encounter suits when the sun went nova.
Honestly the only issue I have with this scene is how easily the Shadows guarding Morden are killed as we were shown how hard it was to kill a Vorlan just one or two episodes ago and yet this one goes down in a matter of seconds after getting shot for a few seconds. But I'm willing to over look this BECAUSE THIS SCENE IS JUST AWESOME!!! :D
@@mobulis not to mention, vorlons are the protoss, the shadows are the zerg, a single shadow is not that hard to defeat (well, not easy, but individually they are not on the same level.)
JMS said that even the Minbari all-powerfull cruisers could be relativy easily destroyed at close range by the average earth warship during the minbari war if they got to fire a full barrage at them at close range.. the problem was managing to actually fire (and hit) at them as they were stealth ... but a full barrage of any warship at close range would kill anything if allowed to. Same goes with the shadows.. a full sustained PPG (or whatever the centauri use) barrage on an unarmored target the size of barelly a human would kill anything. The Shadows relied on stealth and being out of sight..not on being unvincible shielded tanks
A Vorlon could be harder to kill just because of the difference in species physicality: killing a mouse would be a lot easier than killing an elephant for example. He also mentioned waaaaayyy back in the usenet days that Sheridan's PPG was able to wound the Shadow he shot in Justin's chambers. He also clarified recently on twitter that Shadows don't actually wear encounter suits; what you see is them in the flesh, more or less. That said I'm not so sure the shadow shot here was actually killed. No body, unless its light-phasing abilities persist after death. Or it just kinda popped and left some debris we don't see as an audience, though Londo seems to be looking at something (but maybe he's just talking about weapons fire scorch marks or something.)
it is apparently the case that these "rifle" the guards used were far far more powerful than ordinary ones. But also remember that the SHadow encounter shells relied on phasing/cloaking to avoid being targeted at all.. When someone knows where to target they dont have anywhere near the toughness of the Vorlon suit. Also any particular defenses they normally used in a fight were not active, since they assumed he was just being summoned for a conference, not an assassination. Shields down, as it were 😁 The shadows as ancient as they are encountered the worst possible wild card here, and it's all thanks to Morden offing Adira.
I'm always amazed by this scene. The display of confidence and power in Londo does not disappoint. Now, years after watching the series, I think there are holes in the script. - How did the Shadows not identify Londo's plan? - Shadows are telepaths like Vorlons are. Didn't they think to read the thoughts of the Centauri involved in the plan? Didn't you think to read Londo's thoughts? Didn't they anticipate the betrayal? - Several telepaths comment in the series that they can hear the thoughts of people nearby passively. Shadows, who are much more powerful telepaths than the average population, should "hear" about the plan in advance. - How did the Shadows not perceive the plan from the point of view of those on the island?
not sure, but great power often comes with great hubris. i think the shadows didnt take the younger races too seriously and didnt feel threatened by them. i think they where so confident that it didnt cross their mind that someone could best them. and to be honest: londo is a master of powerplay and intrigues with years of experience in that in the royal politics. the centauri have telepaths around too and i think he had developed ways to get around such problems.
IIRC the Shadows were NOT telepaths, the Vorlons were. The Shadows had a vulnerability to telepathic attack, that's why the Vorlons edited the genome of younger races to create telepaths among them.
Simple answer. At no point is it implied that the Shadows were even slightly telepathic. Actually we can assume the opposite, since they are openly threatened and even stopped in their tracks by telepaths. That's why the Vorlons created them in the first place.
The most bad ass scene in the entire show, Lando had some of the best, including the saddest when he dies and the Drakh symbiote forces him to kill G'kar.
I got to say, the Centauri are badasses. For all their decadence, they are willing to face death without hesitation. Staying on an island, knowing that they are going to die to ensure their enemy is destroyed is impressive.
Badass. Londo's probably going to live to regret this moment, but it sure is satisfying (don't tell me what happens; I'm watching Babylon 5 for the first time).
By now, I expect you know the answer. Only one character who Mr Morden ever asked "what do you want" and who told him, ever got exactly what he said that he wanted. Guess which one? (Spoiler) It was Vir.
It took squads of soldiers to kill Kash, just one Vorlon. And here they killed two shadows in just seconds. Shows how much more advanced the Centauri are than Earth.
The vorlons were individually much more powerful but as Kosh said, ‘there are so few of us’. They used bio ships and technology to amplify their numbers whereas the Shadows used others to do their work.
@@neilclark2245 No, it is implied the two Shadows died. They were caught off guard and hit with stronger weapons. Shadows were just too numerous to fight in comparison to the Vorlons.
I think it was that the Vorlons had become a form of energy which, although powerful, meant that they could no longer reproduce. The Shadows had kept their physical forms so they were less powerful, but could still produce more of themselves, all-be-it at a slower rate than the Younger Races.
@@ethenallen1388 I viewed the forms the Shadows had, was their version of an encounter suit. They were also energy beings just numerous in number and weaker and somehow once born, had to be put in their encounter suit to develop. It didn't make sense to me, the Shadows who were older, than the Vorlons stayed as physical forms. I theorized they were able to reproduce by using their biotech, then place the egg/ energy into the mantis looking suit. The drawback for being able to reproduce, was they were weaker.
Hopefully, I too can one day be a planetary dictator, and trick out my Pretorian Guard with gold plated Tommy Guns. (I seriously love the Centari Guard Rifle with the handguard. Just about the only ever Sci-fi blaster that actually looks like a product of a different culture and not just a Chonky version of the Colonial Marine rifle)
After seeing how Vir reacted to Cartaggia's death a few episodes before I'd be very surprised if Londo had said a word of his plan about the Island of Selini to Vir.
My only beef with the scene is the idea that the doors would only need to be "painted over". Those were basically PPG miniguns, powerful enough to disintegrate Shadows (though it's far to say that they were likely taken by surprise). Otherwise, perfect.
I THINK (I haven't read the novel/tie in about the Icarus landing on Za'ha;'dum) but apparently that medallion is some sort of memento of Morden's wife and child, who were apparently 'lost' in a jumpgate accident (it supposedly kept their life essence trapped). The Shadows gave Morden the offer of freeing them/releasing them to death, IF he threw in with them. So it has a sort of emotional value to him==but I might be wrong.
the book about Z'hadum actually explains that pendant as a special love stone of some psychic/musical nature, and it was something tied to his now dead wife. Basically in his moment of shock and grief and fear he sort of went fetal position by clutching at it
The only things that confused me about this scene: 1) How did Londo figure out that Morden had 2 Shadow agents with him? 2) How did he figure out what kind of weapons could kill a Shadow?
in a earlier episode Vir tell Mr. Morden that he wishes to see his head up on a pike and to look up at him and wave. Next up: Mr. Morden's head on a pike. Vir : Would normally be repulsed by this. But the war significantly changed Vir. when he started with ambassador Londo Mollari, he was a young optimistic, innocent, naïve individual who was kind of the underdog. As the series went on. Vir he grew into a stronger wiser, even sneaky individual.