Many years ago, the only way you could get a drink in Wales on a Sunday was on a train - pubs couldn’t open. So there were booze trains running on a Sunday serving drinks - very popular they were too.
Wow, thanks for sharing that Huw! Riding around the beautiful Welsh countryside in a booze train sounds like the perfect way to spend a Sunday to me! :-)
I was in Wales when they had a vote on Sunday opening, it was done by counties so some were allowed to open. Where I was I went to the pub on a Sunday (I was in a dry area) to ask if the landlord would serve me a packet of cigarettes. Come in, said Bryn, and there were more people in the pub than I would see on a regular evening.
Reminds me of the situation in the Six Counties not too long ago. The Province being what it is, you had areas with Catholic controlled councils and ones with Protestant controlled ones. The Protestants used to be strict Sabbatarians, so no pubs open on Sundays. The Catholic areas however, did allow Sunday opening. My Father, who was a publican at the time, told me that on Sundays, he would open the doors of his pub and a bunch of thirsty Protestant tongues would gratefully trundle through the door.
As a train buff, I loved this. Also, you have a marvelously civilized audience, so many commenters have added interesting information and shared personal experiences. I am very impressed.
The Pubs here in Ireland (before covid) used to close on Xmas day and Good Friday, Thus good Friday was called a black day, that law went two years ago. However you could always get a drink on the Cork to Dublin train, and many OAP's used their free travel pass just to do that. Often travelled on the double decker from Bexleyheath to Blackheath going to school. I believe it was introduced to carry more people without having to extend the stations to ad extra carriages. It didn't really work out as the board and un-board times meant longer wait times in the stations. enjoying these series!
The only underground rail in Dublin isn't a passenger train, it was owned and run by the Guinness brewery to move barrels around the vast site and to the nearby canals and railway stations. Now you know where our priorities are.
As usual excellent research and explanation. Quirky is one way to describe these endeavours. Insane would be another adjective! Look forward to part 2!
The commuter train going from San Francisco down the Peninsula to the burbs used to have a bar car. I remember having a drink on it on my way home many many years ago!
Wonderful Stuff, Rob! The Traveling Taverns immediately put me in mind of the "Titfield Thunderbolt" and the lush Stanley Holloway character giving immediate support for an early tipple!
The Vista car (no. 15) also ran on the Northern Line. As a small boy at the time, I was always excited when it was at Edgware Station and always insisted to mum that we board it rather than any of the remaining traditional carriages!
Another great video Rob, always well researched and informative. I knew about many of these railways, but the Vista Cars, the Pub Train and the two-tier carriages on the Southern region were new to me. My favourite was the Pub Train and I would have purchased a season ticket for it. I was unaware of the 1911 Empire Exhibition which shows that, even then, this country knew how to squander public money on worthless vanity projects. I wonder what happened to all of those reconstructed grand buildings... I suspect they were demolished soon after.
This turned up randomly in my RU-vid recommends today, and I'm very glad it did. Fascinating history delivered very well, succinctly and eloquently with a very pleasant voiceover. You deserve more views!
Thank you so much Johan, I can’t express how much your kind words mean to me. It’s support from wonderful people like you that’s encouraging me to develop this channel. Thank you again my friend, and stay well.
I used to travel on the Northern Line to go to school from Edgware to Hendon Central between 1961 and 1968 and very occasionally there would be a Vistacar as part of the train.My friend and I would race along the platform so we could enjoy the novelty of riding in it.Post Office railway from Whitechapel to Paddington-anyone else note the similarity of that route to Crossrail (if it ever opens!)? Great video -more please of this sort of thing.
Thank you so much for your kind comments Brian. And thank you also for sharing those great memories! Since making this video, I discovered the Vista ran on the Northern line; I had no idea before, so it's wonderful to hear your own personal experience of it! Sounds like it was great fun to ride. And yes, excellent point about Crossrail ;-) Thanks again Brian and stay well- I'm just putting the finishing touches to part two so please stay tuned!
Yes I recall seeing the Vistacar on the High Barnet section of the Northern Line in the 1960s. Didn't know what it was called until now, I just thought it was an experiment.
Morning! Whether it's my incompetence but I must have been missed some videos as I see this is from two years ago, but Hey! I loved it and certainly the pub train - and I am chuffed by the pleasure I will get by searching for your 'back catalogue' as our American cousins would say'! Lol. Thanks for yesterday's message to which I couldn't reply until I watched this. I said I was a technophobe. Whatever, on with series, which covers yet more a look at London's long history made easy viewing by you expertise and friendly presentation for which I thank you very much. Rob
Another very well presented video. Some really fun and interesting ones there. I guess some things need to be trialled to see how they may or may not work, and of course going from the late 1800s to the mid 20th Century there was a lot of changing life styles and conditions of life given poverty, over crowding in some places, 2 wars etc. I am looking forward to the top 10 a lot now. Oh, I am with you on the postal system, seems such a waste, could of been used for many other things given Londons road systems.
Thanks for this Rob . . . Despite being a railway enthusiast for several decades, some of these were new to me ! . . . Never heard of the Vistacarriage before !
Late arrival to these videos but loving them. On the subject of booze, I can remember pubs on the platform at Sloane Square and Liverpool Street (this would have been early 1980s).
I wish they’d persevered with the double decker trains! And the motor trains, where you can drive your car onto them. Another great video. Thank you Rob!
They found that in practice it took too long for people to get on and off, as nearly twice the number of passengers were using the same number of doors. On a busy railway, where mere seconds made all the difference, this was important.
The Tube Vista car, also known as the sunshine roof car, was an 'A' end driving motor car no 10306 , built in 1949, and was a part of the 1938 stock family. It ended up on the Northern Line and lasted until the 1938/49 stock was withdrawn, in the 80’s.. I rode it a few times between 1974 and 79. .
@@Robslondon bit more info. The car was a modified 1949 car intended as a “prototype” for a proposed 1952 stock. The 1952 stock never got built. Apparently the idea of the high windows in the body was rejected as it lead to significant extra construction costs.. The next stock, 1957/59/62 was an updated copy of the 1938/49 stock.
Brilliant, glad I discovered your channel, as for the Double Decker train I used to occasionally travel on it when going to school from Eltham (Well Hall) to Waterloo and of course always had to travel upstairs...
Ah memories ! Alas Eltham Well Hall is no more. How convenient to have the railway station on top of the bus station. I remember lovely hot coal fires in the waiting room there
The map you use at the start of the section on the PO Railway, (which I filmed on in 1994 whilst it was still in operation shifting letters and parcels) includes the then under construction line we now know as the Jubilee Line, but is called the Fleet on that map. What a wonderful proposed name we lost, conveying as it did the feeling of rapid transportation as well as referencing one of London's 'lost' rivers. Sadly, monarchists on the GLC, as London's council was then called, thought that to name the line after what is now a sewer, was a bad idea and since it was around the time of the Queen's jubilee, a 'better' name had to be found. I must say we have recently missed another opportunity to have an historic non-royalist London name, as we are now saddled with The Elizabeth Line for our new capital traversing line. An interesting video btw.
Have we had a new line that wasn't named after a monarch since the London Passenger Transport Board took over operations? They came up with "Northern Line", as a new name for an existing line which is the most southerly but not the most northerly line, and that is not named after a monarch. But for an actual new line, I can't think of any.
I agree wholeheartedly. The project which delivered what is now the QE Line, had a very long gestation period (about 30 years )and it was called Crossrail because it crosses London from East to West. Only in the last couple of years of the project, did idiots decide to re-name it. At least it is not named after Charles.
Very well researched and presented! I like the IDEA of the pubs on wheels, but in practice I find I prefer booking a table seat in 1st class and ordering drinks to my seat.
I had a ride on the post office underground railway around 1990/91 when I worked on national newspapers. All the papers had travel advertising reps and we had a club called the Bullfrogs. We would have monthly get togethers and trips out. I had no idea the line existed but we went to Mount Pleasant and had a ride to one of the stations. Now it has opened as a tourist attraction I can recommend it as a fascinating part of London history.
I noticed in the “Pickle Herring Stairs” section you said that fares were 1p and 2p, did you perhaps mean 1 penny (1d) and twopence (2d)? Excellent video though. Oh, I think it was Blue Peter that ran a piece on the Post Office line many many years ago when I was ever so young :)
Thanks; yes you’re right about the prices- I’m not very good at pre-decimal! I believe Blue Peter did feature the Post Office Railway. ‘Magpie’ did too; that’s where these clips are from. Thanks again; stay well.
You’re welcome. I was still living in England when decimalization came in, so I was pretty good at it, a tanner being 2 1/2p, a shilling 5p, a florin 10p and ten bob became 50p, it was all quite easy for a young lad, not so sure I could do it now though :)
I noticed that too, a sign of my age, 1p or 2p (pronounced pee post decimalisation) would have been called 1 penny and 2 pence or tuppence and written down as 1d or 2d. Perhaps of interest the London omnibus company had the mint re-introduce the silver groat 4d in 1836 so the conductor didn't have to carry as much change.
@@Robslondon Cheers Rob. Sadly all of the original Dublin tram lines were torn out by the 1950s so never got to experience it but have seen many photos. Now we have 2 tramlines and Lucan is on the long finger to get a new line at some point in the future.
@@Robslondon You put a huge effort into script and editing and it shows. I really hope that your channel goes big, you deserve it. Fantastic content, and so very original.
Hey Rob. Another great fun video. Loved the Vista Cars. If they had the ‘pub train’ on the circle line I’d be on there all day 🤪 Looking forward to part 2. Best wishes Dave 👍
Hi Rob I noticed that the old brick building connected to the Tower Subway had the name of The London Hydraulic Power Company built into it. I wonder if you’ve done a video covering this interesting London enterprise. I vaguely remember it finally being switched off in the 1970s. Thanks as always.
Nothing too alarming yet. In fact I might call some "a nice try", others quite innovative but perhaps ahead of their time, while the rest I would call quaint. I have fond memories of dining cars on trains (in Cape Town) and I miss them. Looking forward to Part Two.
The closest to the Vista Cars that the Underground has ever had is the 1992 Tube Stock on the Central Line. These have the same large windows which wrap some way around the roof and run right up to the doors. The nearest to the Padded Cells are the 2009 Tube Stock on the Victoria Line with their comparatively small windows. Given that the Central Line is the tube line that has the largest amount of above ground running, whilst the Victoria is entirely underground, it's not a big surprise that they went for these designs.
I stumbled across this by accident. Lots of things I hadn't come across. Great research and listing of sources. I look forward to more discoveries. Keep up the great work!
The main reason for the Post office Railway no longer being used is that most of the sorting&delivery offices on the line have closed/been relocated, so not much use for it anymore!
Yep them 5 stations in south London (best part imho), no one cared about the E London station in King William St as they supported strange football teams over in them for'n lands and wore funny clothes that looked like a thousand people had gobbed all over 'em and said funny things like "Cor Blimey guv'nor" and "Lawks a lordy" and did terrible Dick Van Dyke impressions all over the place :P
I saw, I think, in a 1949 Railway Magazine, a photo of a C&SL 'padded cell' windowless car still surviving in a garden. I guess that, forgotten, it just rotted away.
Oh no.... I wonder what happened to it? The only example I know of, as I'm sure most do, is the excellently preserved carriage held by the London Transport Museum.
The Tavern Cars were designed by OVS Bullied the CME of the SR. A bold step but abused by folk who bought a coffee and took the entire journey from Haywards Heath to London drinking it. Mr B also designed the DD trains. Earlier in his career Mr B designed new sleeping car sets for the East Coast and as one's shoulders are wider than one's feet, his design resembled a coffin - which Mr Gresley did not really appreciate. A brilliant engineer and one of my heros whose mantra "Function produces form and form follows function" was not always shared by the person on the platform. But he tried !
The promotional literature for the tavern cars shows a few people having a pint or a glass of wine. I always thought the reality would have been different on a rush hour commuter train.
RU-vidr The Secret Vault recently went from Tower Hill to Tooley St and back before he got nicked in the Tower Hill exit. BTW the scrubber wasn't for aesthetics but to scrub the caked on soot on the tunnel roof which could be ignited by sparks from the engine and causing a fire to drop down onto the trains/track and causing damage. Falling soot too could enter into the coaches and dirtying the passengers so they were pretty hot on getting at the soot before the introduction of soot catcher equipment fitted to chimneys.
Excellent video, also interesting to see that the map you show at 14:17 shows what will become the Jubilee Line as the Fleet Line (I hadn’t realised public maps had shown the proposed name)
@@Robslondon I think it was in 1988 that the law changed meaning that pubs no longer had to close for two or three hours in the afternoon, longer on Sundays. I'm old enough to remember the change! Sundays they used to only open noon till 2pm and then again 7pm till 10.30pm. A good day to go on a train ride that had a buffet car!
@@Robslondon I would have been 33 in 1988 so remember how the licensing hours used to be very clearly. There used to be boats that regularly left Tower Pier to travel down the Thames to Margate via Southend and back on day trips. They were like a smaller version of a cross channel ferry. The attraction was that as soon as they were on the move the bars used to stay open all day so they were very popular especially with blokes on darts clubs or firms outings and the like. Two of the boats I remember were the Royal Sovereign and The Daffodil. I went on a couple of trips with my dad and his mates and their sons in the sixties. Us lads would have been too young to drink then, but a boat trip with a meal of fish and chips on board and a few funfair rides thrown in too was an exciting day out! My dad was on one of these trips with mates when England won the World Cup in 1966 so only heard the game on the radio. Not sure when these day trips were discontinued, but they might make for an interesting video.
You intimated that the two 4-DD units were 8 coaches long. This they cannot have been: the 4 indicating 4-coach units. They did work in mutliple, however, as a single 8-coach train.
Acton also had the quite busy dairy railway think it was Express Dairies with their little shunters pulling in milk tankers from southern and western England. United Dairies had platform 1 at Vauxhall for the milk trains, where spigots on the platform would connect to the tankers and pump gallons of milk down in a very short time and this went on 24/7. Milk trains often became impromptu out of hours passenger services where a guard for a bit of coin would allow those in urgent need of travel could muck down in the brake van and the guard would pull the brake on enough to slow the train down at the desired station enough errant passenger could hop off. Crystal Palace High Level was originally a vacuum atmosphere train which didn't work very well as the leather flanges had to be kept wet and dried out very easily thus the train would lose its travel, it was a popular line for Crystal Palace's motor race track that lingered into the 60's and is still there as footpaths but sadly Bromley council the gits have resisted calls to reinstate it as a cycling, motorcycling and small car racetrack again.
Being someone from a performing background I was keen to see the one in the theatre ? I've watched both of these and it doesn't exist despite saying it was in one of these
