Lore Theory : Did Bajor outlaw Starfleet Vessels? 

I’d say they’re about as close to a protectorate as you can get.

Perhaps Starfleet voluntarily refrained from keeping a large number of ships there to avoid provoking the Cardassians, who would inevitably see that as the Federation conquering their former territory. That would explain keeping permanently stationed ships to an absolute bare minimum (first runabouts, then the Defiant when the Dominion was discovered) until the very episodes when Cardassia joined the Dominion and provocation thus ceased to be a concern. Very simple and fits the facts as presented.

Federation space was pretty big. Plus the rebuilding of a new fleet was still in development

I think the reason for Starfleet not having a Large Presence at Bajor was that Starfleet was spread very thin. Remember, the first couple of Seasons of DS9 overlaps with TNG. Now we know there was a Hostile Quasi War with the Klingons in DS9. Starfleet had to fight that and keep a presence along the Romulan, Tholian, and other minor powers borders in the Alpha Quadrant. Given loses from the Borg Attacks and the Passive nature of the Federation, Not sure they could keep a Large Task Force at DS9. I am willing to bet that Starfleet figured that with DS9 in orbit and it's awesome firepower could hold out on most attacks. It did survived 2 full blown assaults, 1 Klingon and 1 Dominion. When the Klingons attacked, Starfleet dispatched a fleet to reinforce DS9 and with the Dominion, the Fleet was sent on an attack on the Dominion. These two events makes me believe that the Federation/Starfleet was spread thin. they placed fleets in areas that could defend as much territory as possible and not concentrated at a Border Station.

DS9 is a bit like that farm in Walking Dead S2: it's frustrating because you know how unprepared they are for an attack and yet they act blissfully unaware.

Yes....i think they did. SImple, they where a "neutral" ( with very big " ) system. With major connections between major races. To allow 1 faction to station troops there would be favoring 1/choosing side. Yes ds9 was there, but more then it and the small defiant would have been seen as building up forces.

Am I the only one that has Gary Owens’ voice in my head every time you say “SPACE JESUS”?

Bajor secretly covets Gelato Machines... Federation Gelato Machines.

There could also be a bureaucratic and logistical component. As long as Starfleet's position there was uncertain, making it into a more significant base would be hard to justify.

I don't buy the line the Bajorans didn't want Starfleet ships. It was Starfleet who has a long history of leaving things undefended. How many times was The Enterprise the only ship in range to save Earth?

Typically a starbase had a few ships assigned to its sector. They wouldn't constantly hang around the station, but go off and do missions.

Lore I was thinking about the atheistic nature of TNG and came up with an idea. In TOS (and TAS, I know it's canonicity is in question) but in them Kirk encounters the greek gods, the mayan gods and literally Satan, like literally Lucifer. I was thinking that perhaps the cause of religion being non-existent in TNG compared to TOS is purely that people stopped believing due to finding out that many of their gods were just aliens

It's an obsidian order plot by Gul Du Tru... (Ahem) Spell check fail... Or Starfleet needs mothballs more than fleet numbers.

I chuckle every time you call Sisko "space Jesus" I'm pretty sure he's more of a Moses

it couldn’t be simpler, in the early days the producers just didn’t want to cough up the money for the special effects to put ships on the tv screen. it all comes down to the money honey.

The Bajoran government didnt want a star fleet ship station there because one they didnt want to piss off cardassians. And didnt want to give the cardassians excuse to re invade feeling threaten from the klingon who are Starfleet allies and then Starfleet on the other. The cardassians would have felt squeezed

Star fleet hubris, they kept the tugs there for any small craft and any large craft/ fleets wouldn’t dare attack with the weapon system they were eventually going to get installed

I always assumed it was Starfllet being absolutist about the Prime Directive. Managing a space station the Bajorans could not build or maintain was one thing. They intended it as a warning to the Cardassians and to facilitate trade and exploration in the sector. But stationing a fleet at DS9, beyond the runabouts and eventually the Defiant, probably made the admirals skin crawl. Bajor wasn't a member of the UFP after all. I think they changed their minds only when the Dominion looked unbeatable and they needed a force to hold the mouth of the wormhole. Starfleet ships certainly docked at DS9 so they weren't banned from the region.

I've said it before (in another comments section) but i think, although unsaid in the series, that the minimal/zero fleet presence at DS9 was because of Bajoran politics. The federation may have helped end the Cardassian occupation through diplomatic pressure but many bajorans who fought for decades didn't want to see one foreign oppressor replaced with another. The federation, likely agreed (hoping that Bajor would join the federation, or at least become a strong ally) and so lightly defended the satation with a couple of runabouts with the remainder of the stations defences being supplied by the Bajoran Militia (a militia which, if bajor became part of the federation, would transition into the Bajoran system fleet - so good practice) - although this could also be due to the federation fleet still recovering from the Borg attack, and the federation council deciding that there were more pressing concerns for (their much reduced) fleet deployment around the Romulan border (after their involvement with the Klingon civil war was uncovered) as after all a new treaty had been drawn up with the Cardassians "ending" their border skirmishes therefore meaning that stafleet didn't need a large fleet presence around the Cardassian border. With the Cardassian support for the Circle revealed (throwing the organisation of the Bajoran militia into some disseray), the Jem'hadar attack on New Bajor and the destruction of the USS Odyssey Sisko (space Jesus) was able to slip one new ship into the stations defences (as well as strengthening the stations armemants) - but more than that as although a well armed station at the wormhole would make military sense Bajor also knew that DS9 also opparated at its port-of call for any and all species (federation alligned or not) travelling to and from the gamma quadrent, so a reduced fleet presence was prefered as it made DS9 a less impossing destination for merchants and traders, and those traders likely paid the bajoran govverment a cut of their proffits as, even though DS9 was opperated by star fleet it opparated in Bajoran juristiction (hence why Quark could run his bar and make profit off of it). Also, before the Klingon attack Bajor had made a new alliance with the changing Cardassian government which (temporarily) ended political hostilities between the two (so why have a fleet to defend you from your new allies? especially allies in the middle of political unrest and allies under attack by maquie terrorists?). The Klingon attack on DS9 also proved that DS9 could hold out by itself until federation re-enforcements showed up so a permanent deployment was not necessary. The Dominion alliance with Cardassia on the other hand, threw all the previously well built justifications out the window. Cardassia was no longer Bajors ally (their government now being run by Dukat, a war criminal and despot as far as Bajor was concerned) and Cardassia had declared that all the territories which had once belonged to Cardassia would be cardassian again including DS9 (and by extension Bajor). The Dominion presence ended the cold-war period between the Alpha & gamma quadrent powers, so commerce and trade through the worm hole would be much reduced (unless you were the Ferengi), so the financial reasons for keeping a fleet away from the station were now gone, but most important of all the Dominion attack on the Federation, Klingon and Romulan forces gathered at DS9 would have destroyed Bajor as well with their sun going super nova. This was no longer a "federation" problem and Bajor could no longer turn a blind eye to the war, and even though Bajorans are good gurila fighters their fleets were still antiquated (refitted enough to take on a few cardassian ships from DS9 season 1 maybe, but not strong enough to take on a fleet upgraded with Dominion tech). So under those circumstances the Bajoran government would have agreed to let not only a federation fleet be present at DS9, but also a Klingon military presence because when an enemy force tries to destroy your solar system with a supernova you don't quibble over matter such as "hmmmm but what about those who don't want them here".

I think the federation just has a mind set, ship stationed a single location are underused no matter have vital the location. Better they be exploring or at least paroling a day or 2 warp away and cover more ground. The Defiant is the somewhat expect at it is the station, might do to it being classified as a warship first. Even when Earth is treat by the Borg first cube the fleet facing it seem hastily assembled by what ever ships are near by. And the old saying in show and movies "we are the closest (only) ship in range", seems to indicate Starfleet is normally spread thin, having a thin wide net and rely of station to hold out with reinforcements can be assembled.

When The Federation acts like a Brown (Water) Space Navy.... because reasons?

In star trek online the fleet is massive. Ships are literally everywhere. DS9 has like 30-40 ships there all the time. Earth basically has a battle fleet ready to go and just about everywhere you go ships are there

I was always more inclined it was Starfleet that was more reluctant to send ships out to DS9, we find out that in the first Cardassian attack that the closest starship available was the Enterprise at being a day away, as the series goes on we do see the Defiant added and even the later seasons opening implies a Galaxy class is regularly docked there with the Klingon and later Dominion wars, but that was only after attacks on the station becoming regular, implying that Starfleet just didn’t want to waste the resources considering it was just another outpostt with a convenient worm hole(that sparked more independent movement than Starfleet) on an otherwise hostile but weak border.

The main reason was a low effects budget and that, at first, they had no idea that DS9 would turn into a war series. Luckily after Behr became showrunner and CGI became affordable that changed. All in-universe reasons can be invented and justified, and can make for interesting debate.

I suspect the initial reason Starfleet didn't station ships at DS9 was because of the Maquis. Starfleet was already smarting from the end result of the Cardassian War. The treaty that came out of that was frankly bad (I don't have any problem believing that, diplomacy has screwed the pooch too many times in real life) and the resulting Maquis conflict entirely to be expected, and I suspect a LOT of lower ranked Starfleet officers were going to be sympathetic if not outright helpful to the Maquis. It was probably one of the reasons Sisko was chosen to command DS9 - his tendency towards rule following and inflexibility towards such attitudes, as well as his not being involved in the Cardassian War, would make any pipeline between Starfleet and Maquis short lived at best (as indeed it was). Once that policy was in place? It always takes much more effort to break a policy than to create it. Starfleet took a step towards that with the Defiant, but no one was willing to stick their necks out and actively challenge it until the entire policy had become ridiculous.

The Klingons are there under protest. Gowron is sent strongly worded memos and such

In the early story arcs of DS9 the federation is looked upon with suspicion...The Bajorans having just won their freedom from The Cardassian Occupation largely looked at the Federation as another occupying force, in some ways as the lesser of two evils like trading Cardassian overlords for Starfleet ones.... however it should be noted by maintaining a Starfleet presence on the station, it made it very difficult if not impossible for the Cardassians to re engage hostilities....because any attack against the station or Bajor would provoke a (Federation) response.... There was actually an entire story arc about this in an earlier season...”The Circle,” I think... The most logical reason for the lack of a Federation presence early on was simply Politics as usual, which actually meshed really well with the story. And yes, as the story progressed you began to see a steady Federation presence within Bajoran Space, both exploratory and military. Even Klingon and to an extent Romulan fleets were routinely in Bajoran space. And of course the real major shifts in opening up Bajoran space happen after the Dominion Occupation. When Sisko prompts the provisional government to side with the Dominion it really was a shock to the system....like “Space Jesus wants us to make a deal with the Devil,” kind of shock. After that Bajoran space really opens up.

Starfleet did not have the resources to place starships there initially. It seems that Bajoran space is a long ways from Federation space. Something Bashir mentions in the first episode, he refers to DS9 as being out in the frontier. Also, looking at TNG during the same time period, Star Fleet did not want to provoke any other power in the sector as they could not sustain and armed conflict. Reference TNG episode "Wounded" S4E12

I think you're somewhat right and somewhat wrong, but in the end it comes down to the same thing: Lazy Writers. Everyone forgets that Deep Space Nine was an ORBITAL station; the only reason it didn't remain so was the discovery of the Wormhole and the actions of Miles "Well, Maybe If I" O'Brien. I think when the deal was inked, the Provisional Government very much wanted the trade and security that a Federation Waystation would provide (down to the coming and going of Starfleet vessels) and an orbital trading hub that the other major and minor powers were unlikely to try to pick a fight with or exert influence over, but a flotilla of ANYONE'S ships just hanging around in orbit wasn't a popular idea with most any Bajorian anywhere...especially after generations of Cardassian occupation...and so Deep Space Nine was agreed to be a waystation for ships, not a deployment. Then, after Sisko and O'Brien moved the station to the mouth of the Wormhole, everyone just kind of forgot to renegotiate the deal; the Bajorians were still skittish, and both Bajor and Starfleet wanted the station to represent a major trade hub with the Gamma Quadrant...the appearance of which would be damaged by a fleet of Totally Not Warships just hanging around all day.

Space is vast, and how do you "boldly go" if you're attached to a station in a relatively backwater sector? Once the Dominion and Cardassians were sorted out, the Federation had bigger fish to fry, like the Borg, the Romulans, Tholians, and other potential space nasties.

maybe the reason why they didn't keep a fleet here is because the station could not support a large number of star-fleet ships before upgrades?

From what information we are given, the agreement is that Bajor was busy rebuilding and thus didn't have enough people to maintain and run the station and deal with all of the fallout of half a century of occupation at the same time. After years of border wars, Starfleet decided that having a base in that area was necessary. So they decided to make it a joint facility. Bajor would provide the physical station and Starfleet would provide people that Bajor couldn't. Both parties would be allowed to use the station as required. It would still formally be in Bajoran space "Hence a requirement for hearing regarding the extradition of Dax, as well as Kira attempting to deport collaborators", but the station's joint crew was handling stuff like customs and flight control "hence why the station crew routinely inspected vessels and the bridge provided flight control". But they were still required to comply with Bajoran environmental regulations "As we saw when Odo told Ezri that he couldn't dump her order due to environmental regulations". At the same time, prior to the war with the Klingons, we know the Federation and Klingons had stuff like common marriages between the two "Alexander's mother was a child of one of these as was Lt. Torres" and people living in eachother's territory "Which the Doctor's holoprogram showed", so it's a pretty safe bet that Federation and Klingon people were allowed to work in eachother's territory. The whole thing with the Skriia basically confirmed that the station was a separate customs area from Bajor for humanitarian stuff, since the Bajorans kept them off Bajor but were ok with them being on the station. Based on the station apparently having its own customs area and Starfleet being allowed to provide people that Bajor couldn't, it's likely that Sisko did have the authority to get the Klingons to secure the station. I don't think there was a Bajoran rule banning Starfleet vessels for a very simple and rock solid reason: There were all kinds of other vessels in Bajoran space due to all the trade coming through, so it probably wasn't a restricted port, and Starfleet was contractually obligated to be there; and also, they knew that the Cardassians saw the Federation as a real threat and wanted the Cardassians out of their territory.

probably some agreement in the peace treaty, bajor and its space had to be officially neutral, like a free independent state instead of traded territory to save face, they might not want to be seen handing it over to the fed as a loss but by being merciful to the bajorans so they look good, appear strong to the ppl of cardassia and they're pretty strict on security, im sure they didn't want any fleets or task forces there seeing as its relatively close to their space but the federation grew a spine when it came to actual cardassian space hardware

Considering even Earth seems to have few ships around it at any given time in earlier series and times, I think it is simply a matter of available ships at the time. Only once the war gets into full swing do we see them start pumping out ships enmasse and thus have enough to regularly garrison DS9. Combine that with DS9 being very close to both Klingon and Cardassian space, you probably don't want to amass ships right on their borders to dis-stabilize the area pre-war. And then there is the final matter that a garrison isn't that useful as it seems ships are in the area and can be called in if needed. Having them sitting around the station when they could be patrolling instead is rather pointless. Of course the real reason is that having a ready fleet of ships available would have made a lot of stories impossible and also increased the budget to constantly show.

Actually Star Trek Deep Space Nine does do a fairly well gloss over of Federation, Cardassian and Bajor relations. In The Next Generation it is indicated that Star Fleet had traded the Marquis territory to free Bajor from Cardassian rule. Then Deep Space Nine cleared things up showing that the terms of the agreement seems to be that Tarik Nor an old style mining station operations would be handled over to Star Fleet. How ever Bajor wanted a stronger Starfleet Presence. How ever Either elements in Bajor wanting a free independent isolated Bajor because of fears of another Occupation. That or the Cardassian government was afraid of Starfleet preparing to invade Cardassian space put a term in the agreement that Starfleet couldn't station a fleet there. By the time a fleet was needed at Deep Space Nine most of the fleet was probably busy on other assignments hence the massive over haul of the station and use of Klingon Ships and personnel. Because it is indicated that Starfleet agreement with Bajor was that Starfleet could only station Federation command personnel. Then repeatedly it is indicated that Starfleet territory is vast and Starfleet does not have the ships to spare for every battle and has to pull from stored decommissioned ships with refit weapon systems and shields. Also it is shown in multiple episodes that Starfleet rile was to exclusively help Bajor to rebuild and then to withdraw from Bajor and hand Deep Space Nine over to bajor. After that point Bajor would join Starfleet.

Starfleet is pretty busy exploring the galaxy. I doubt they have the starships to just station them in one place for years.

You know… I never thought of it this way but this almost looks like the Federation passively fighting allowing Starfleet to become more militant. Think of it this way, your peacekeeping and science fleet is steadily becoming more militant and it’s making everyone uncomfortable, including much (but not all...) of starfleet. Suddenly, thr political situation in a region shifts drastically, you gain planets, you lose planets and there’s a freed system signaling it wants to join for protection, which means more of starfleet has to become a military. For a golden age politician, you might as well tell him to commit political suicide by making a Federation wide announcement that their pacifistic way of life was now over due to some back water world. Or... they drag their feet on the whole thing and argue they don’t want to escalate tensions.

Your theory does make sense and I'm sure there IRL examples that could be used to support your ideas such as when the British first took control of Hong Kong? I might be wrong about that example as I don't know the history of Hong Kong but there you go.

Because technically it’s a Bajoran station and stationing an armada around it usually makes people nervous. Bit like Belgium in WW1. It made them nervous the thought a massive German army marching through their territory.

I think the reason no Starfleet vessels were permanently stationed is because of lack of ships to do such a thing n instead used a "standby" strategy. Ships will be nearby, but doing other missions, research, diplomacy whatever the case may be and only send ships to their aid when called. Also another reason is that the station was upgraded to more or less a battle station to hold off any would be aggressor until reinforcements arrived from nearby ships.

Think DS9 is like Ramstein here in Germany, inside Starfleet can do what it wants, even invite foreign forces, outside its somekind different and every ship still has to ask for permission to enter bajoran space. Think the even more interessting event is, when Kira (just formal) asks Sisko to hand the station back to Bajor just before the Dominion attacks and he refuses. THIS sounds like an act of war to me but with this occupation everyone is fine :/

Given sisko is as you put it space Jesus and later on we see him use his position as both station Commander and the emissary to “convince” the bajoran government to sign the non aggression pact I think that at first they may have been against it or Starfleet didn’t have the ships. After all their fleet sucked pre 359 and pre dominion war. But as Sisko gets more comfortable as his role as emissary he starts swinging it around, such as convincing the bajorans to allow a Klingon presence on the station.

The reason was probably that the Cardassians HAD just abandoned the station then probably had to beg to allow the DEFIANT to be docked at DS-9 two years later at the start of the Dominion Cold War...I don't think Shaakar would just sit there and be silent about a Federation warship be in the Bajoran star system without input.....

I think behind the scenes it was the same writing mistake which led to the constant "the Enterprise is the only ship near Earth!" events. But I can't make that into a lore compatible thing in universe.

perhaps the reason the feds didn't station a fleet was twofold: a) to go easy on the bajorans, too many ships may seem like an occupation force, don't want bajor to think that - want them to be happy about the feds and join them, not give them the impression they swapped on conqueror for another. b) avoiding an adversarial stance against the cardassians. while some would say a show of force is the best way to deal with cardies and keep them in check (i would probly agree), feds are peaceful (and hubristic) and will not take any provocative action, even against belligerents like the cardies.

I have a thought: what if Starfleet _really isn't_ a military fleet? What if, in fact, it isn't a military fleet because there _are_ military fleets in the Federation, military fleets that we never see because they belong to _members_ (e.g. the Andorians, while Tellarites presumably focus on transport, and Vulcans presumably focus on longer-running science) of the -United Nations- United Federation of Planets instead of to the UFP itself? So, there isn't a military fleet at Bajor because there isn't and probably never has been a _Federation_ fleet, just a fleet of mobile quasi-counties with their own pre-existing duties and self-defense capabilities? Getting a defense fleet at Bajor doesn't simply involve moving pre-existing assets: it involves getting representatives who've already got their thumb on a ship to let off for a bit, and/or getting member states that have a military fleet to loan out some ships, neither of which are minor issues. The Klingons, in contrast, probably build their primary combatant ships as combat ships first, and anything else second. They don't have such inflexible fleet assignments in the first place, and even those are combat-focussed. That's my thought.

DS9 might never had been taken if there had been a joint Starfleet Klingon defense fleet in the Bajoran System.

The Bajorans allowing Klingon and Federation ships into their space is due to politics behind the scenes. Before the Dominion War and Changling threat, the Federation was very hands-off, they had the attitude, here is the credit card use as much as you want. Things change when there is trouble, the big kids strong-arm the small kids into going along with what they want, in many episodes after this, once the Klingons are there there is no getting rid of them.

DS9 had three Federation ships there from the beginning... the runabouts. Mind that while they were small, they were still armed and much more combat capable ships than anything that Bajor had. I think that the decision to not have more ships there was due solely to Federation priorities and that initially Bajor wasn't considered to be contentious enough to warrant a permanent task force there. The belief at Starfleet being that the Cardasians were the only real threat and that they wouldn't be willing to attack Bajor/DS9 and provoke a war with the Federation. After the Wormhole's presence became known, Starfleet likely still felt the same way... Cardasia wasn't willing to start a war over the Bajor sector ( so long as they were permitted free access to the wormhole and Gamma Quadrant).

I think part of the problem is that people think Starfleet is larger than it actually is. And there's probably a regulation on how many ships can be stationed at any given location or sector, no matter the threat. For instance, Starfleet knew that the Borg were a threat. They had been preparing for it. And yet they were only able to muster up 39 ships at Wolf 359. And that's to defend Earth, not some backwater planet, from the biggest threat the Federation has ever seen. Plus, having a fleet of any size, even a couple of ships, would have been perceived as a threat by the Cardassians. There's also the fact that the Federation is not made up the same way as the Klingons, Romulans or Cardassians. Each world within Federation territory, has it's own defense fleet, to some degree, as they are still sovereign worlds. The Federation is made up more like the European Union, than the United States.

But once the Dominion and Klingon fleets emerge you saw more starfleet ships stop by, a fleet to take out the first Dominion ships on there way to cardassia would have saved a lot of grief

I'm wondering if Bajors deal with UFP on DS9 was similar to the deal Panama had with the US on the Panama Canal, that the station will eventually completely fall into Bajoran jurisdiction after a time period of US ownership and operation. And them not allowing a larger Starfleet presence was perhaps a part of their deal to meet Federation criteria for admittance as a member state. Allowing a Klingon presence doesn't apply because "they aren't part of the UFoP". Also thinking about it, had Bajor allow for a larger Starfleet presence then signing up to be a member of the Dominion when they took over DS9 would have probably worked against Bajor. They had to stay neutral throughout the war considering theybare situated on the frontlines. Who knows really, I'm not even sure the writers can really explain it if we asked.

I can get behind certain political factions on Bajor not welcoming a large fleet presence given their experience with the Cardassians. I can also see Starfleet not positioning a fleet at Bajor until after Cardassia joined the Dominion to avoid provoking tensions with Cardassia following the border wars. How would Starfleet feel about a Romulan build up on the edge of the neutral zone? I imagine the Cardassians would feel the same about Starfleet buildup on the edge of the DMZ, just a short hop from Cardassia Prime.

Perhaps the lack of a fleet is more to do with federation politics than Bajoran ones. While Bajor is being helped by the federation it is not a member of it and it would not be surprising if the federation has a rule forbidding the permanent stationing of a fleet in non federation territory. This would explain why there did not seem to be any restrictions on the number of starships stopping at DS9 for short visits but no fleet stationed there. Also given that the issue with the Maquis was due to some federation colonies being given to Cardassia it stands to reason that there are still some federation colonies in that region and they would take precedence in terms of resources over a potential member state. Imagine a news report of Cardassia invading 7 federation colonies on the border but Bajor a non federation world was saved thanks to the fleet which could have been defending federation worlds being based at Bajor instead.

Starfleet: Congrats with getting free and all, but your in the big boy pen now and you might get hurt. Bajor: No u Starfleet: Well... okay. *The Dominion has joined the chat* Bajor: ... not this poop again...

I have always thought that the Dominion had always planned to occupy, so they could create a beachhead in the Alpha Quadrant close to the wormhole, which is why they wanted to wipe out the Cardassian intelligence Agency, and started a war between the Cardassian Union and the Klingons to weaken the Cardassians to make them so desperate that they would join the Dominion. The Dominion thought that the Cardassians were the only power in the Alpha Quadrant that would welcome Dominion rule (Cardassians love order) and wouldn't revolt. The Federation loves it's freedom, The Romulans aren't active, they're reactive, and the Klingons wouldn't want to lose it's culture, so the Cardassians were the only choice.

I would say the main reason theres no fleet at bajor is probaly the same reason theres no fleet at earth plot. lol we always have to have our heros be on their own when an attack happens but in all seriousness the lack of ships at bajor and earth has always bothered me it would be nice to have the in universe reasons be more clear

I agree with Starfleet not provoking the Cardassians as the reason to keep a fleet from Bajor....up until the Klingon conflict. But I don't understand why Starfleet repeated the mistakes of the Cardassian conflicts and didn't smash the KDF to dust. I think a Federation/Romulan/Cardassian alliance would have thwarted the Dominion invasion more successfully than any help from the Klingons.

I think starfleet didn't want to give the impression of an occupier

i know why no starfleet. BAD WRITING/BORG INVASION 1 & 2 ETC...

I always thought it’s because they didn’t want to look like a force build up on the cardassian border. Plus starfleet only has like five ships (this is a joke); so they couldn’t commit to having a fleet there. Plus factionalism in the Bajor am political scene meant they needed a threat to convince dissenters that they needed to be there.

I think the Federation was just hesitant to put more ships at DS9. I mean, the first real ship they got, the Defiant, didn't even work when it was sent. We know Starfleet was arrogant and I think they didn't want to make themselves appear as an actual military force, even though they technically are.

I’ve said it before bajor is perfect for a starfleet shipyard like coradon, and benengeller Your also forgoteing the colma terrorist tried to blow up the worm hole

I am not sure what you're really trying to say. I think Sisko's and Starfleet's reasoning is sound and reflects some realities that wasn't covered in detail on the show but strongly implied. When Sisko said the Federation cannot guarantee the safety of Bajor (and by extension DS9) when the Dominion War was about to start, believe him. How that war went early on is further proof. The episode statistical probabilities as well. Sisko had access to Starfleet briefings that you did not see! Granted, earlier on, sending a task force of 6 ships against the Klingon ship on the surface seems odd but could suggest that the Federation is spread thin in that area, even with Cardassia nearby

The politics could have worked the other way, in the sense of the federation not wanting to have a fleet based there as to not provoke the cardassian

Wrong. Odo is only replaced regarding Starfleet issues not as station Security Chief. The lack of Starfleet presence as said by some already is in no way to do with Bajor and entirely to do with the Cardassians. Starfleet took control of Terek Nor/DS9 in 2369. The final parts of the conflict in the Cardassian/Federation War had only ended 3 years prior and the treaty hadn't even been signed yet. Starfleet clearly didn't want to antagonize the Cardassians but wanted the Bajorans as members of the Federations, hence a presence in the Bajoran sector but not a military one in terms of ships.

I always wonder why didn't the Bajorian never built a fleet using old Starfleet ships like the Marquis. I am sure the Federation would have sold them some there older vessels that where mothball.

Sorry I was a very intense and well versed Star Trek fan at the time and DS9 not having federation starships around NEVER occurred to me as being an issue. The fleet was always spread thin and the only ship in the quadrant-sector is usually the Enterprise (see ST I, II, V ). If anything DS9 had fleets that were way too big. Wolf 359 destroyed 40 ships and this was portrayed as both a tragedy and a major hit to the fleet. And while TNG starfleet had the benefit of old models still being in service - there was only meant to be a dozen Galaxy's in service just like back in the Constitution class days (or like the modern navy's aircraft carriers)

Starfleet could of been just spread thin on out by bajor side. I wond how bajor would of feared if starfleet would of protected bajor in tue first place 60 years earier.

Maybe it was also a case of treaties that was part of the reason there was no fleet. In the case of Babylon 5 they also had no standing fleet for a long time mainly because the station was diplomatic and I neutral space. Even tho it was controlled by mainly humans no human fleet was there. Having one might have hurt the economics of the station as such an act would be considered aggressive by others races. Maybe this is the case for ds9. We know that the bajoran economy was very desperate and needed the station to draw in capital. If that was a major need then a standing fleet would be very off putting to others. However war time would void the need for such considerations. Just like in b5 a standing fleet would make since.

The producers didn’t want to pay for the special effects team to film with the star fleet models so they just reused footage from the way of the warrior for the Klingon fleet

Actually I had never considered that. That the Bajorans forbade the presence of Starfleet ships as a garrison. Huh. If so, they were absolute fools to not reverse that policy until much much later on.

The thing I love about DS9's political setting compared to other Trek franchises is that it's realistic, in the sense that it's messy and often illogical. If this were a planet in TNG or Voyager (or even TOS - I don't know about Discovery as I haven't watched it), there would be one unified political stance across the entire planet with every citizen toeing the party line... unless the storyline centred on a civil war or something, in which case there would be two tightly-defined extremist camps with no grey area in between. Meanwhile, look around you today - I live in the UK and we're heading towards Brexit, because the narrowest of majorities put an X in one box rather than another. Many of those people who voted pro-Brexit during the referendum have since changed their minds because they've seen what a complete mess it's turning out to be... it was a nice little fantasy for them to go back to the Good Old Days of the British Empire when we ruled half the planet and didn't have to account for the rest of Europe in our decision-making, but now the harsh economic realities of our modern situation are becoming apparent they're realising it was only a pipe-dream and would like to change their vote before the hard-line anti-Europeans destroy our country for the sake of misplaced and outdated national pride, please. And let's not even talk about the situation in the US. The point is, rhetoric and selective reporting and outright lies can cause people to vote for one thing, and when they see the consequences they sometimes think twice and change their mind. The pendulum of public opinion swings wildly, especially on vital political issues like the future of a nation - let alone an entire planet. There are arguments shown on both sides by the extremists on both the left and the right of the Bajoran political spectrum throughout the series, with both sides voicing valid concerns. The chances are we don't hear all the nuanced reasons for joining or rejecting the Federation throughout the series, either; only the loudest, most invested voices cut through the babble on either side, and - as we've seen recently on both sides of the Atlantic in our world - nobody has an objective view of the true solution because there's no way to divorce our logical faculties completely from our emotional fears. I don't see the Bajoran response to the Federation's presence at any given point in the series as inconsistent or "bad writing", I see it as a natural and true-to-life depiction of the constantly-swinging pendulum of public opinion through the grey areas between black and white extremes. Sometimes the politicians are blown to the left or the right as the citizenry change their minds back and forth according to what they perceive as "a necessary step towards integration" or "an intolerable burden upon our people", and if those politicians ignore those ever-changing opinions in favour of an objectively better solution for the planet as a whole they are replaced by someone who won't. Politics isn't a long-term prospect for a representative who does the right thing despite popular opinion, because they are (by definition) supposed to represent the will of the people... even when the people's will is to shoot themselves in their collective foot. So as I see it, the mercurial behaviour of the Bajoran Provisional Government isn't a question of flip-flopping from episode to episode because of story or writing inconsistency, but an accurate portrayal of day-to-day politics in a volatile political climate.

the reason the bajorans were ok with klingons on the station was because it was the emissaries order, and therefore the will of the prophets. arguing to remove them was effectively going against the prophets, aka: blasphemy.

It makes more since if the Federation didn't want one there for political reasons, as well as their natural aversion to war. Putting a three or four combat capable ships next to a planet that they were clearly courting for joining the Federation, that just got free from a brutal military occupation. I don't even think that Klingon are that tactless. And when the Klingon were, at most, hurrahing Bajoran ships, that last thing you do is put a serious fighting force on that other end of the border for them to attack.

Starfleet apathy. In a federation of hundreds/thousands of star systems. Bajor was a podunk little system without much to offer to the federation. The Enterprise D exploration was mostly within federation borders checking on world the may not have visited yet, or check in to see if a planet has meet Starfleet ideals yet. DS9 was given a commander who was on the last step in his career. When the dominion was a threat to the local powers they give the defiant. Which was not up to Starfleet standard. Only when the Dominion became a threat to the whole federation was when they started to pay attention.

Space Jesus lol

I is Q Continuum fault of humanity savagery trial with Picard debriefing of the farpoint mission!

Because a fleet would annihilate oncoming fleets, and ruin the drama.

think plot convenience

Write the novel for this background information... Or at least collaborate with a writer...

The Bajorans are annoying, The Federation should have enslaved them all after the Cardassians left...

Good job quitting those live streams. You're much better off doing these.

The UFP was a bunch of pansies before The Dominion was discovered.

No sir it didn't

Lore you are so wrong on this one but it comes from your misunderstanding of military alliances in the real world allowing you to ump to very naïve conclusions. There are many real world examples of a country joining an multinational organisation but not wanting certain military assets stationed on their territory for political reasons Bajor wanting an affiliation and possible membership of the Federation but not allowing military certain units is the same as NATO, where only 2 members UK and Turkey have ever allowed the permanent basing of Nuclear Weapons (Germany did allow temporary basing of Tactical weapons but no Strategic Nuclear forces) although both of these were withdrawn for political reasons in their territory. There is No Difference between the way Bajor is restricting the Federation military to the way Germany, France Italy Spain or over a dozen other NATO members restrict the placement of politically sensitive military units in thier backyard hell Australia won't even allow US or French Aircraft carriers to dock as they have nuclear reactors on board (and they are not the only ones most NATO Members will not allow US Carriers to dock due to the Nuclear reactors. Why do you think the US 6th Fleet that is the major NATO military asset in the Mediterranean is the only fleet without a carrier at its core instead having the Amphibious Command Ship USS Mount Whitney as its Flagship although a Carrier is allowed to be temporely part of the Fleet Usually designated Task Force 60 on the condition it doesn't dock anywhere thus restricting deployment time to onlya few weeks)

Bajor is ruled by a bunch of vapid religious fanatics who would rather be painters than politicians. So when they are forced to be politicians they literally do not know their own ass from a hole in the ground. Bajor yearned for a strong leader to tell them what to do. It was clear we were the superior species, but they just could not accept that. They wanted to be treated as equals when they most certainly were not. We did not choose to be the superior race Fate handed us that role. They were centuries behind the cardassians, not just techn.... oh my. But hey, that's my thoughts.

Are you Shane Dawson?