That's me in the corner. That's me in the spotlight. 🔥 / mikeburnfire Nonstop - Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License creativecommons...
“It’s the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit so it’s polytheistic right?” “Well, I grew up with Drunk Mommy and Sober Mommy who are *COMPLETELY* different but I still only had one mom” “Okay, point taken”
No joke I am an atheist and I never had real trouble with that question because I was rationalizing it before I became an aheist that It's like God is The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and "He" appears in whatever form he likes. Like..he's not "really" 3 entities, he just chooses an appearance and personality and that's how we view "Him" at each time. Yeah I was putting a lot of thought into it and trying to understand it, that's why later in life I became an atheist. xD
@@DominusTheOne Just to point out that's not how the Trinity works, least as far as can be understood about it. The Trinity of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit are three persons in one being, there is nothing that has more then one person in one being except for God which is why out understanding and rational for it breaks down, even the supernatural beings don't have such which makes it incomprehensible, God does not select an appearance and personality, but is all three at once, they are both inseparable and distinct, and in form serve separate roles actively, distinctly, and deliberately, they operate both independently and in accordance with each other perfectly. (without ever separating)
I have faith that the majority of you will keep the comments civil. No personal attacks or bigotry. I won't hesitate to delete offensive posts, or ban repeat offenders.
Agreed you shouldn't go after someone because of their religious beliefs after all was raised in a Christian family with atheist for most of my life and now I believe in my own thing which is literally just the black emptiness that exist outside of the universe but everyone is entitled to believe what they want
That's the same logic that says you'll go to hell for playing Doom. You know, the famously pro-demon game Doom. Which has absolutely no actions condemning demons or devils in it.
they send up smoke signals when they pick a new one as well, and ive heard they have a special chair where some poor bastard has to fondle the new guys balls to make sure he has em.
@@remnantofthefirstworld2930 Im fairly sure that one is a myth, but the legend is too funny not to spread. For bonus points, there has been more than one pope who tried to hand the position off to one of their sons they produced with a local prostitute. They also did try having a super pious pope once, but all the guy did was eat bread and water and talk about how holy it was to eat bread and water, the was possibly assassinated.
@@sirapple589 There is a very, very long list of dodgy popes, if you google 'popes gone bad' you will get a lot of articles. Pope Stephen VI had his predecessor dug up and put on trial, and apparently spent a bit of time yelling at the corpse for good measure. Pope Alexander VI had a lot of kids, I think he was one of the ones who tried to pass it one to one of them. Also said to have had orgies in the vatican. Honestly, its a long list.
Oh man, I remember in AP Biology in a public school being told that: "We probably didn't come from apes, so we are going to read some passages from the bible" And even then as a huge Baptist kid was thinking "Hmmmm..... this seems.... incorrect"
I would have lost my shit and done my best to get the teacher fired… correction: I actually did this when something similar happened. A teacher was telling us that homosexuality doesn’t exist, and that those people are just possessed. I got the whole class to walk out. We refused to go to school until the teacher was fired.
i mean technically speaking we didn't come from apes, we had a shared ancestor. I don't remember if it was homo habilis or before that the evolutionary split happened tho
I've never understood that phrase. What good is praying for them going to do if whatever happens to them is "part of God's plan"? Your prayers will make absolutely zero difference.
God is the only "God" Jesus Christ is the only son of a "God" born by divine conception as a Human and in Human form which is why he was able to take the sins of humanity. The Holy spirit is the total Summation of all 9 gifts God gave to EVERY man on the day of Pentecost when the apostles were covered in cloven tongues of fire and spoke in tongues in languages they themselves didn't understand.
Ah, Fort Poik, the root of all evil in Zach's life. That biology teacher's lesson is VERY important and should always be kept in mind. Critical thinking is important. Sunday service, had that near the end of my basic training, the last time I attended a full church service myself.
Man, I aspire to have this kind of friendship or conversation "It's actually two chromosomes that got fused together" "WHICH ONES?" "The 2nd and 3rd ones" "AMAZING" "HOW DO YOU KNOW?" "Inactive telomeres" "OH MY GOD" *both laugh*
@@gravargen943 SAO Abridged is better than SAO you mean. Every character has deeper personalities, motivations, etc. Every character is more likeable than base Kirito. Even the villain's reasoning for why he did everything is so much better in abridged, being simultaneously understandable, relatable, believable, and also *so damn funny*
I appreciate how candid and civil this conversation was. I am grateful that when I was young I was able to bring up questions and concerns about religion without being snubbed. In fact, I was encouraged to ask questions and find truth. Many people might disagree with my faith, and I can understand some of their concerns but I always appreciate it when people can discuss their beliefs openly and not hate each other for it.
I think that there are things the various denominations really need to improve. Prayer is good, but Christians should always remember that they are called to serve God and should be ready and willing to help a neighbor in need. St. Paul chastised an entire church because they would only go through the motions. If your neighbor is struck with a natural disaster then you do everything in your power to help, instead many Christians continue to refuse the tasks God gives them and warm the bench instead.
@@sentientbattleship1882 There's many who don't read or think about the passages, and often the most vocal and outraged are the least faithful of any group who are projecting their own vices and failures. The Bible is very explicit in how you shouldn't just give lip service, that's one of the largest things Christ himself teaches against. Hospitals as they're conceived of in the modern day actually come largely from the Christian practice of hospitality and the Order of Saint John, aka Knights Hospitallers/Knights of Malta/Knights of Rhodes. You are supposed to tend to the pilgrim, the neighbor, and the gentile alike. Love thy enemy. Though, do not surrender yourself or leave your home to be taken by those who do not come in good faith. After all, before she became repentful and turned to believe Christ turned away the woman who came to him for a miracle as she had been doing to all others, but when she earnestly asked of Jesus he swiftly gave his grace to her. The way the teacher in this video described being saved does not reflect the history or beliefs established in the Bible. Being saved is through forgiveness, it comes solely from without, from God. To receive forgiveness one must seek it and know he is by nature sinful, vile, detestable in the same way as the worst human. I really detest when people try to use being saved as a way to be morally superior as that is entirely the opposite of what the Bible teaches. Every Christian is just as impure as every other of man, from the most terrible monsters of the 20th century to the greatest Saint we are all quite immoral creatures who struggle greatly with sin. To think of a woman who is not your wife in the way of a spouse is to commit adultery, to covet is to commit robbery in the soul, there is no escape from it in the material world. There is no such thing as a truly good man for we are all stained by sin and we must be aware of that and control that and accept the Holy Spirit's help to be above it. Forgiveness comes through Jesus, and you must know him for otherwise he does not know you. Before Christ souls went to purgatory, a state suspended waiting to be saved, according to the Jewish belief that preceded him. The final judgement day comes at the end of the world when Jesus Christ descends from heaven to judge the living and the dead. Creationism in the anti-evolution sense is specific to the Evangelical branch that is a very recent version of Christianity. I can keep going on about how much of this is just... people who haven't really studied the Bible from different angles and thought about it only in the shallowest manner.
Man, think about how easily Mike could have grown up to be a raging homophobe if his dad hadn't acted the way he did. Like, it's just complete luck that his dad was a decent person who influenced Mike to not be a mindless parrot. God bless your dad, Mike.
@John Doe Disagreeing with the immutable soon becomes dehumanising others. "Don't ask, don't tell" was a good example of how dreadful quiet homophobia easily can be.
My issue with “thoughts and prayer” these days is that I’m sure it was originally supposed to be packaged with actual, tangible aid; I mean, unless you can’t physically or monetarily, IMO
Y E S, SOMEONE GETS IT, this is the same thing I think of when I hear people refusing medical aid because of their faith. GOD GAVE US THE ABILITY TO MAKE MEDICINES AND DO SURGERY.
Well praying to God is doing something as one is appealing to God for someone's struggle. And if you're a Christian and believe in God asking him for help seems to make a lot of sense. However Christians are also called to provide for the physical needs of others because though physical/emotional pain is temporary in the long run it still matters and the church would appear hypocrites if we didn't help people's physical needs and only talked about their spiritual needs. In practice my church and most others tend to either hold special collections or have special ministries that help with disaster relief or with people in the church losing their jobs etc. Well also having our prayer teams pray for them. In short Christians are supposed to do both in one capacity or another. Edit: the primary reason why we would give to others is love the whole not seemingly hypocrites is more for those who focus way too much on spiritual needs and need to be kind of woken up.
Personally I agree with what another comment said, that I fall into same belief as Joshua Graham "I pray for the safety of all good people who come to Zion, even Gentiles, but we can't expect God to do all the work." Prayer is good for the mind and soul, but we should still be expected to take up job of fixing our wrongs, not god
I think my “losing my religion” experience was when my dad became ill and passed away. He was 62, never smoked a day in his life and was a volunteer firefighter for 44 years. He developed a disease called Pulmonary Fibrosis. It pretty much suffocated him for 3 years and hospitalized him for his last 3 months. No amount of hopes and prayers did anything for him. He needed a double lung and liver transplant to survive, but when the found a donor, the organs were no good and would have killed him. He spent his last 72 hours unconscious with a tube down his throat to make him breathe in the hopes to find another donor. They never found one in time and had to pull the plug because after 72 hours he would never be able to live off of a breathing tube.
When I was very young, I nearly died in a fire. I was like ten months old, and my volunteer firefighter neighbor pulled me out of a burning house. I can't do anything for your dad, but please, if you're going to know anything, know this: I don't know who you are. I don't know where you live. I didn't know your father, but for 44 years, he put his life on the line to save people he didn't have to save, and it's possible one of those people was me. For that, I'll remember your story, and through that, I'll remember your father.
I'm atheist but the "I lost my religion when someone dear to me who was a good person die of cancer" is kinda bullshit ish, it tells that you were lied into religion or that you never cared enough to understand it. Because the bible never says "Your dears won't suffer as long as you worship me", most of the time it's the opposite. No offense. In my case I learned that I should be happy for them since they will reunite with their dear ones and live happy forever, I just became atheist when I considered how many religions are out there, how unlikely is the existence of a God and the fact that even if it does exists it would be hardly be remotely similar to the Christian one.
I lost my religion when my pastor had a secret polygamous relationship against his own teachings and then murdered his pregnant second partner. Craziest part is he wasn't arrested till nearly 2 years after the murder.
Many pastors take advantage of peoples belief in them as “prophets of God”. While many do good and practice Christianity in the right way. Many use they’re position to abuse people. Part of the reason I choose to practice on my own.
@@danielfigueredo5194 That's one of the main reasons why I have such disdain for Christianity, honestly, and why I DON'T have that same disdain for Christians. Organized religion is kinda fucked, and attracts a lot of rotten people. On the other hand, quietly practicing it with your family or, at most, your small community? If it gives you peace of mind and gives you a purpose, and if it DOESN'T work to make you unnecessarily nasty (i.e. homophobia), more power to you, I hope you have a wonderful experience with it.
I was told that certain attractions were actually possession by demons. Then when I was a teenager and had those exact attractions, I realised either being possessed by demons felt a lot like a standard Wednesday morning, or maybe that wasn't a thing.
I remember my "Losing my Religion" moment. My mother told me that she wanted to baptize me Catholic and when to the local church to have it done. Well, my father was one of those long-haired hippy types and the priest outright refused, citing my father. My mother asked if he really was going hold the sins of the father against me. And he said yes. So my mother went on to threaten him, saying "...if anything happens to my child, I'm going to hold you personally responsible" and was getting ready to leave. At that point, he caved and baptized me.
@Elijah Lawson I’m a Catholic and I assure you, this is not the norm, the vast majority of priests are not like this. And to the original poster, I would recognize don’t base life changing moments and personal doctrine on a single incident, that is a lesson for life.
I remember my first time clashing with religious authorities in my life. I was four or five years old and in a catholic kindergarten and was getting increasingly annoyed having to sing the same boring church songs every day and kept complaining and asking why we couldn't sing something fun for a change. So after enough whining and mutilating gods praise with the crudest lyrics my little child brain could come up with the nun finally gave in. "Okay, what would you like us to sing instead?" she asked. Now, chance would have it that I had visited my uncle a few weeks prior and had found a simple little music box that played a melody I really liked and when my father saw that, he taught me the lyrics to go with it, which I also really liked, even if I didn't really understand them. So, when I was asked to present my alternative music choice I was happy as a clam, I had a good song at the ready, and once everyone knew there was actually stuff that was fun to sing we surely would never have to sing praise-bes that were the acoustic pendant of a dead fishs stare again. So, I started singing: "So come brothers and sisters For the struggle carries on The Internationale Unites the world in song" Thats about as far as I got before I was dragged out of the room by an enraged nun who demanded I'd tell her where I had learned this song, and the answer "From my Dad" did nothing to calm her down. TL;DR: Got in trouble in catholic kindergarten for singing a communist anthem
I can just imagine like when she asked you about the song a movie camera is on her than pans to you and you have a russian hat on, a AK strapped to your shoulder and holding a bottle of vodka
"I'm pretty sure that happened at some point." You have no idea. The tension and outright violence between people vying for the title of pope is quite something. Look up pope fights, you'll be informed and amused. Also possibly disappointed in the church.
There was one Pope that held a trial for a dead Pope because the body, which was thrown into a river, was said to be performing miracles in the place that it washed up. He was sentenced to death for heretical witchcraft(iirc). Sam O'nella has a video on it.
As a Christian I would like to apologize. Most of the time people lose their region due to incompetent churches. Churches are good for many things if done right. During Katrina, my church did food drives, donations, and started the youth group on habitats for humanity which build houses for the homeless. They properly document where every penny they receive from donations and where it goes and display it prominently. They reached out when my dad was sick, they supported me through tough times and love everyone despite their beliefs or factors. I saw a blind me get brought to the stage from the congregation and allowed to say how much he appreciated us all. That is Christianity, Love, forgiveness, and tolerance. Anyone who says otherwise is false prophets. And if you're wondering about all the wired stuff about the bible, please understand that the bible is written by a bunch of people over hundreds of years. And translated like a dozen times. And a lot of the weird stuff from the old testaments got negated from Jesus's death and resurrection.
My theory the change of christianity came from the uprising of the kkk and the first colonizers spreading a hateful draconian version of christianity so what you embody is the true religion and what it was meant to be and what is popular now is the devil controlled crowds and greedy priests
@@matthewmcdonald1812 The KKK has been dismanatled for at least 50 years, yes the first settlers were puritanical but they sought to have the same power that the catholic church had on new lands they were not that different from europeans and yet american christendom seems to you like this huge boogeyman, this stinks of an political statement to blame the groups you dont like, christianity has suffered because society values have suffered, how the hell is a priest supposed to be incorruptable when he has been raised in a society which values profits, social status and little else, the problem isnt these boogeyman the problem is the society in which they exist.
@@lelagrangeeffectphysics4120 the kkk still exists and has leaders David duke is still alive and they did an interview with the grand wizard recently you cant be making this stuff up. Christianity is ultimately a good thing but the version most common is a version that excludes all who Jesus sought to rise such as homosexuals, trans, or even racially motivated segregation. Puritans were also a group of people who actively sought out others who they considered "against god" albeit not actually killing them but abusing them for straying away from their core beliefs. and yes its a boogeyman because people have made it that way the priests today are as likely to be reaching for your wallet as they are to be spreading the word of god. in regard existence of mega and super churches they are a prime example of how far modern Christianity has strayed from the bible and its beliefs take your sorry ass and read the bible and see what people cherry pick and exclude from the bible because here's an already common misconception, jesus never says to belittle or berate someone for their choices he says to let live and be the better man never stone or damn someone to hell, give up your dumbass illusion that today's corruption is something so little as me choosing a side and hating on a group because someone told me to. having experienced White, Asian, and Black churches and what they taught me especially how segregated and untrue to the bible the white church was but how racists gather under the cross for their own benefit for a future they wish to lead with an iron fist and I cant stand reading comments like yours where the history of the church is overwritten for no reason other than to make light of the church's failures, good Christians still exist but how much can a small group of people with little to no power show in the face of the treacherous hellscape that is modern day Christianity.
@@matthewmcdonald1812 The KKK is probably the most disfunction and disenfranchised organization I've seen at this point. What I've seen is there is a bunch of smaller sects just floating around everywhere which can be called KKK groups but they are at odds with each other[at least in Michigan]
if some one says "Don't ask question" they are untrustworthy because they either have no answer or they are liers if some one is religious i recommend for them to ask questions about things and find an answer so they are ready to answer other peoples questions and not dismiss people.
I’m glad I’m not the only one that’s considered “what if you whack the pope too hard with the pope checker???” And as a Christian person I hope people don’t give you guys crap for your beliefs. I know we get a bad rep for that, deservedly, when people don’t remember how we’re supposed to treat people. Thanks for the laugh!
As long as THEY don't call us stupid, I'm fine letting it sit. We'll know who was right when we're six feet under, so why fight about it and waste the time before then?
The religion/atheism internet wars were most intense during the 'aughts. Now it's mellowed out, and society has found a new political battleground to fight over - I think it's Social Justice that's the contentious hot topic right now.
I am lucky that the church I grew up in encouraged thoughtfulness in our faith instead of completely blind loyalty to doctrine. Things like evolution were discussed thoughtfully and impartially and I was never made to feel as if my faith was any lesser for believing in science over the writings of people who died over 2000 years ago. I know that if I had been met with denial and anger instead of discussion and debate I would have lost my faith a long time ago.
Same. Its makes much more sense to actually answer a question than to say heretic or start fighting with someone on a subject. If you don’t know the answer to someone’s science or Bible question just tell them you’ll do research and then come back and ANSWER their questions lol
@@noble_ace9470 AYEEEEE YEAH THIS IS WHATCHA DO When someone asks me about evolution, I provide "Maybe, maybe not, but I prefer not" and explain it as adaptation to the environment.
Amen. Mine is very similar. From what I've seen is that micro evolution (within a species having different subsections like different races of people) but macro evolution (chimp to human) isn't as much of a thing
We also have a rather odd viewpoint about being "religious" as a term. Being a part of a religion and being religious are very different things. The Pharisees were very religious and followed it to a t, but they did it for themselves and to show "how religious they were" or whatever. A lot of them, at least from what i've read, werent great people, but they were religious. and at least from what ive interpereted, Jesus really wasnt, or not nearly to the same degree. His teachings were more about the connection with your neighbor and your connection with god, and if you had those, most everything else would fall into place.
Yeah same. I don't know why, but the video title made me think "So does this guy have other rants like this implies?" Yup. If I'm ever on Louisiana, I will be sure to avoid Ft. Polk.
Guys I'm the same I'm so glad I found these. Hearing the story about the anger management in fort Polk and I couldn't breathe from laughing. Boys keep it up !
It saddens me to hear of what you guys went through and learned, especially since I'm a Christian. I really hated that you guys were just given cookie cutter answers or outright ignored, cause I do believe there are good answers to what you asked. If you ever have any interest or wanted to just ask questions to a Christian that will take you seriously, feel free to message me. Love your guys content, keep it up and God bless you.
Exactly, I mean there's been probably thousands of books and treatises on nigh every problem (save for personal ones) they mentioned. Yet many religion teachers seem less unable to read into such things, but unwilling. And it hurts not just the Church, but all christians as a whole.
I went to a Catholic high school, and we were taught (briefly) about evolution. Our science teacher wasn't Catholic, but still had to follow the rules, so she was able to teach us the basics, tell us to do some of our own research outside of class, and that was pretty much it. I think we only spent a few days on the subject, definitely no more than a week.
@@Tired-Merc you arent taught basic knowledge and what you are taught is either incorrect or talked about like you only need to know it cause the "heretics" put it on the test. But they do teach math correctly
@@Tired-Merc i study in a catholic school and they teach us science all the time the teachers are not restricted to the believes of the church. However i have 2 teachers in a bible lesson saying the word of God "teaching" us values but they themselves don't follow them just a couple of hypocrites.
I swear the fact that you can put Jedi on your dogtags is goddamn hilarious to me and will never get old. I've seen pictures of some people who got Pastafarian on their tags. Personally I'd want Dudeism on mine.
Nice! I actually am a registered Dudeist priest. Haven’t ever used it, but it fun that if your county recognizes it as valid, you can legally marry people.
"We put the 'fun' back into fundamentalism." That immediately made me think "That had to be a line on The Simpsons at some point." And, of course, it was: Episode 79, on the sign for Springfield Christian School: "We put the 'fun' in fundamentalist dogma." Not exactly the same, but close enough.
Here's how I've heard the father the son and holy ghost be explained as one god. The Father (as in the creator of all things) The Son (The manifestation of his will on earth) and The Holy Ghost (His vigilance and omnipotence). That's how it was explained to me and how I understand it.
Christian traditions/churches that believe in the Holy Trinity are termed Tri-Monotheistic; thats the technical answer Zack was looking for. Catholicism holds this to be a mystery of faith; essentially, “There is only 1 God and the Creator/Father, Jesus, and Holy Spirit are God but these claims are seemingly contradictory. Since we know these claims are undeniably true (via divine revelation, Jesus, Bible, etc.), our reasoning that there is a contradiction must be at fault.”
It ain't the most difficult problem to resolve, with Moksha and such providing a decent template (or the idea that existence itself is the true manifestation of divinity). Nevertheless it's the point which seems to cause the biggest rifts, whilst me as a agnostic am just sitting here wondering how people can speak with such conviction about the characteristics of a supposedly omnipotent being. God apparently knows and controls all, but is suddenly unable to inhabit three different beings? Like DID is something humans struggle with, so for God it ought to be easy.
having gone to a Jewish private school myself I feel so bad since we would have entire classes of torqh study where our Rabbi would throw away the entire lesson plan for the day since one student would ask a question and we would discuss it for the entire time. I even changed an entire slide and added an opinion to my Rabbi's slideshow that he still uses to this day. I weep for your religious school experience.
That’s something that I feel christians don’t understand about Jews. Doing philosophy is a big part of how we worship. I’m still salty about the time I was called an Atheist by a Christian for criticising Soloman’s heavily monarchistic philsophical system.
When I was learning evolution I remember my teacher word for word saying. 'I don't care what your religion is or what your beliefs are but this is my job and it's just something that you need to be taught.' But that same teacher did eat dog food out of a can to prove a point.
Hearing this is so weird. I'm orthodox and every Christianity teacher we had was always eager to explain *any* question regarding Christianity. And I legit mean any. I've never encountered the "no you're wrong, get out of the classroom" thing.
I was actually surprised as well to hear that too, i grew up Sunni islam and my teachers talked about how god created people and evolution and all that. There was never an anti-evolution thing because they discussed it when questioned about it.
I've had RE (religious education) teachers that have went to the point of assault against me, a particular time i can remember was when i was in my highschool year 9 (not sure what grade that would be) but were all given the bible's the old testament and the new one and the teacher was essentially a zealot so every kid was a drone for him answering with things like "god is great and the bible is the only book that man needs" till he got to me. I remember him asking what i thought about them and i simply replied with that they were good history books because it showed the political climate, what the housing situation was, what the culinary, situation was, the kind of currency used etc; he proceeded to press me on the religion of it all and cause at that time i was major into boxing and judo I knew I could fight ( and often would go looking for them back then) so i wasn't scared to speak my mind to him or anyone else so i called it all fairy nonsense to which he proceeded to try and assault me with a book and i proceeded to defend myself by knocking his two front teeth out and restraining him got kicked out of the school but made sure everyone knew why. I still see him today and he still gives me dirty looks but i laugh it off cause i know he never got the teeth fixed.
@@brendanmatrix6208 The "fairy nonsense" part might have been pushing a bit hard on the knife. I'd have said I had my doubts instead; if he initiates an attack then, you can say you had been hoping for a debate and be covered in case of retribution. Still, attacking you isn't okay and I appreciate why it was necessary to fight back.
I don't know why a lot of theses stories sounds like something that was snuffed from a Monty Python film that was rejected cause it was waytoo funny, theses campfire stories. Gets my funny feelings going!
The entirety of Ft. Polk sounds like a Monty Python skit. The sheer incompetence of the people just from the stories Zack has told is on par with retail management and it's both hilarious and depressing
@@sorinsilverheart3200 The thing retail and the military have in common is they're both bureaucracies, so they both naturally breed incompetence at the top level.
Lmao I remember my recruiter telling me I was gonna be religious in basic, and I thought “Is it that bad?”. Until I was in basic and realized it was because that was the only peace I’d get until the next Sunday.
My first time becoming somewhat disenfranchised with religion was somewhat similar to Zach's. I've always been a curious person and when I was little I'd always ask questions. I got legitimately kicked out of a Catholic Scripture class when I was five because I was asking too many questions that the teacher couldn't answer. These days I chalk that experience up to the teacher just being really shit, because hey, if you can't answer a five year old's questions you probably shouldn't be teaching.
I love hearing different viewpoints on religion. I'm kinda the opposite of the typical "Atheist growing up in a strict Religious Household" in that I was raised in an atheist household where religion was kinda looked down upon. I think that's why I gravitated towards religion more. At the end of the day, we're all products of our upbringing whether we realize or not. Many people who are born into a religion end up leaving because they were basically forced into it rather than choosing it. I don't know if anyone else grew up like I did, but it'd be cool to know. I think that people let a few bad religious people shape their perspective of a whole religion. First and foremost, people are people, and people can be dicks sometimes. People have flaws and bad days and differing opinions. For example with Christianity or Islam, you have billions of followers. It's literally impossible for all of those followers to be good people. Anyone can claim to follow a religion. Now whether they really do or not? Different question.
In the Old Testament they would tie a rope around the high priest's leg in case he died from unconfessed sins in the most Holy part of the tabernacle. They'd listen for a thud and pull the body out if it happened. The hammer's tame next to that.
At my Sunday School, I was always used as the example of a sinner to the other children. I was also the only one that always questioned things and said "Nah, I'm not doing that" when asked to do important religious things
Yea their is this weird amount of conformity, but religion was not founded on conformity it was literally the opposite. You should praise children for exploring their religion, guide them and answer their questions and concerns. Let them find religion on their own because if they do their faith will be infinitely stronger because through all adversity they still found a faith rather then people who were indoctrinated and cower at the slightest amount of question or challenges to their beliefs.
You had some horrible teachers. Using you as an example of a "sinner" is very ironic considering they themselves are sinners, as is every human being, and in fact by pointing at you as an example they are committing a sin, judging you for no other reason than "you don't listen to them". I hate nothing more than when people use my faith as a cover for their shitty behavior, and a justification for their pride. Makes my blood boil, and it turns people away from the faith.
No, both the catholic and eastern orthodox churches believe in the trinity. The schism was more over the authority of the pope and the worship of icons.
@@tomcrago9631 www.oca.org/questions/teaching/the-trinity "Thus we have always and everywhere God the Father, the Son of God who comes as Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. In the Orthodox Church we confess that these three are not three competitive gods, divided, and separated from each other. On the contrary we believe that the Father, who is the Source of all that exists, always has His Son and His Spirit who are not creatures, Who were not made like everything and everyone else, but Who exist eternally with Him; from, in and by His very own divine being."
@@tomcrago9631 No. Also, what the Toaster of death said is also wrong. The schism happened over difference in the Greek Rite, and the Latin Rite, as well as the Catholics adding in the Symbol(?), basically the prayer with the basic tenets, that the Holy spirit also comes from the Son, which wasn't by any Ecumenical council, but rather the pope being too big for his Breeches. Also, that was the BIG schism, there were smaller schisms before that. Also, I am Orthodox, just to give context of what view I have, and the Catholics are basically heretics, and the pope claims power over Dogma that he doesn't have, never had, and never will have. That is at least my view. Of course a lot of the actual reason for the schism was about the Jurisdictions that the pope was trying to claim, that traditionally had belonged to the Patriarch of Constantinople.
The trinity is something thats very confusing and honestly not a huge deal in general. Like not understanding it won’t stop you from going to heaven or anything
@@librarianseth5572 Hey, if you locked me in a room and told me my only two options were to either watch something I hàted or read a math or science textbook, my response is always going to be "Welp, time for a study session."
Honestly, what made me an atheist was my experience in the education system, I was bullied heavily, by supposed Christians and Muslims, had the teachers turn their backs on me, apparently good, faithful religious people who left a defenceless child to have their mental and physical state destroyed by their peers and that's when I lost my faith, the people who were supposedly meant to be peaceful and caring were monstrous brutes that took pleasure in hurting others, and after getting into history, I found thousands of versions of this throughout history and questioned how in god's fucking name can people do this and claim to be good people because of their religion That's how I lost my faith, and it will never come back, the damage has been done.
I used to wholeheartedly believe in God, and I also believe in science. I used to rationalize the stories in the Bible with science, and when I shared my views, I was told to be silent. I stayed silent about what I believed in, and my mother mistook it for nonbelief, so she had missionaries come almost daily. They were so persistent, even texting me while I was IN CLASS. I am now an ath**st but I still have a lot of respect for religions.
I have faith in Christ. Religion is made by man and is imperfect. I too believe science and faith are compatible and should not be shunned. Thank you for being tolerant despite your past. ❤️
@@falloutboy9993 that's the best answer. i think putting a man in a situation where he has to explain and understand god is like puting an elementary kid to explain nuclear physics, they may understand at some point a part of it but never the whole deal, and even that small part may be wrong
Ended up losing my faith when my dad, who at this point wasnt doing good mentally was being taken advantage of by the local churches. It got so bad to the point when he eventually was not near those churches anymore he fell into a deep depression for about a month literally didnt leave his chair and when he finally got up he was essentially a zealot on a warpath claiming he'd purge the town in the name of the rightous lord. This eventually came to it's peak when he took his truck and my little brother while I was at college and slamming his truck into several police vehicles and being arrested. Thankfully it seems the jailtime is helping at least somewhat as he's been able to get help
Bro I feel you, most of what I know about my faith, and the reason I am still Catholic is because I did a shit ton of researching all of my questions. The Church, and many protestants, do a shit job of teaching the faith.
@@thethirdsicily4802 yeah tell me about it. There is a lot of answers and interesting theology that never get exposed if you don't look for them. If all you got is "Jesus loves you" and "Go to Mass every Sunday" without a proper explanation why anyways - then I absolute understand why someone just goes away.
@@thethirdsicily4802 Unfortunately brother, not every priest is as well trained and educated as the Jesuits (a.k.a. the Catholic storm troopers of theological debates). It is, however, always comforting to see that questions we ask ourselves were asked before and debated over the centuries.
@@VindicAlpha that is true, while the Society of Jesus has fallen from its original place as the masters of theological debate, I’m just glad that we have the things they debated about
You lose your faith because of others actions? Do you have so little faith that you cannot handle other human beings making mistakes? I’ve heard of this before and I’ll tell you here, realize that religion is a hammer and the believer is the one who wields the hammer, when the believer uses the hammer for wrong what do you do? Blame the hammer? What if a drunk driver crashed and kills someone, do you blame the car or the driver? Not all Christians are the same nor are all Christians perfect, but why? Because Christians are still humans and just like there’s some humans who aren’t the best, there’s also some Christians who aren’t the best. Some Christians would’ve loved to answer questions, have debates, and here other people’s beliefs without attacking them for it. I suggest you base your beliefs on what you believe and not the beliefs or actions of others. If you had other reasons ok, but this shouldn’t be a reason.
Honestly, I love hearing you two talk about these kind of topics, because they're not polarizing or trying to push an agenda, but instead just express how you guys feel. I love the work both of you do and hope you can keep it up at time ticks on.
I really appreciated this. I admit that as a Christian (albeit a slightly smaller church, especially compared to something like Catholicism or some of the larger Protestantism denominations) my entire, relatively inexperienced life, I kinda hesitated to click on this video, but I appreciated the tact and honesty shown. I honestly can't blame either of you for leaving your churches. I especially liked the whole "do your own research" point that was brought up, as I also did that myself and saw others do that in their lives with ultimately good results. Hope you guys take care and keep up the good work with the videos.
To be fair, I think the point of monotheistic trinitarianism is that it doesn't make sense to us. God is supposed to be an infinite primordial entity from beyond time and space and any attempt to accurately describe this being in human terms is likely not going to make sense. Also, your Bible teachers absolutely sucked at their jobs if those are the answers they gave you to your honest questions. I grew up in a Christian environment too and I had a completely different experience. My teachers actually engaged me in friendly discussions whenever I had a question like that.
I have two formative religious stories that always stuck with me. One, when I was 13, there was a girl who I really really liked, who I found out later was atheist. I countered that with "But that means you'll go to hell!", and she was obviously completely unphased by it. As someone who's greatest fear for a long time was hell, that really stuck with me and she was the first person that made me start truly losing my religion. Another time in high school, there was some sort of event going on that left me, one other student, and my gym/health class teacher in the room together just kinda waiting on the clock. At some point we started discussing religion, and the teacher started talking about how his view of God is not that he is some sort of divine entity, but rather just way the universe moves so to speak. I.E. instead of a person in control, he sees God as whatever forces are driving this world forward, more or less. I for the life of me could not reconcile the idea of someone subscribing to a Christian type of religion, but interpreting it in such a way as to be completely counter to the fundamental ideas of God being the ultimate power in control, but rather everything is chaos but is happening for a reason. I was atheist by then so I wasn't offended, so much as just absolutely fascinated by the way he interpreted things, and that's always stuck with me. Anyway if you read all this, thanks for listening to my TED talk
Oh yeah my faith was not at all strong. I grew up basically being made afraid of hell, but I never had much faith outside of saying I did to not go to hell. I just find that story a little funny these days I guess.
I grew up religious and saw a decent bit of this logic. I went atheist for a bit but eventually came back under a different sect. It's funny, lot of people I meet, its religious people who made people go off the path more than the faith itself.
Lost my religion in Confirmation at the age of 12. Came out as bisexual at age 14. Came out as trans at age 16. Went back to my original church at age 20, having transitioned. Didn't pray, just observed the goings-on. I'd gone with my mother. After service, two of the kids I'd previously known during Confirmation insulted me for wearing a Pride shirt. They called me f*ggot a few times, I countered with "Oh, sorry I'm sexier and cooler and generally better than you." Pastor heard this. Pastor comes over to me after the kids have left (the conversation was kind of funny, because they started saying "Adam and Eve not Madam and Eve" and I proceeded to quote the legal decision that legalized being gay in the United States and the statute that criminalized discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation in that particular area). I'm thinking, 'Oh, great.' Dude gives me a high-five and goes "You handled that perfectly." Turns out he'd been talking with my mom, who had told him about my transitioning, and intended to talk to me but was beaten to it by the two morons. (Apparently, next week's sermon was about tolerance and acceptance.) That pastor was one of the few people that taught me religion isn't bad, it's just weaponized by bad people too often.
For me, there were a lot of little things that eventually led me to the realization that I never actually believed to begin with. I was just going through the motions because it was what was expected of me at the time. There was one major incident that just disillusioned me with the church in general, or maybe just the one I was going to. I live in Florida, the area I'm in has a lot of Haitians and Jamaicans. After the earthquake that happened in Haiti, the pastor was giving a sermon, telling people to pray for Haiti, and then he starts talking about how the earthquake was "Their own fault, God's punishment for practicing witchcraft and Voodoo," and my first thought was basically, what kind of bullshit is that? And I remember turning around, because the congregation here was again, mainly Haitians and Jamaicans, and I see most of them just nodding along like, Yep, that makes sense, and I had no fucking idea what was going on. That was about when I stopped going to that church, which pissed of my grandmother something fierce, but I didn't care.
That's pretty similar to a thing that happened to me at my church. I like you just kinda went through the motions and didn't really think about it that much until I was like 13 or so. There were things here and there that left me with questions about my faith but the absolute breaking point was when I was around 16 and it was the Sunday after the Pulse nightclub shooting in Florida and me and my Grandma were setting up stuff like the bread and juice you'd pass around (it's been a minute so I can't really remember what it's called) and an elder started chatting with my grandma and just offhandedly said "that shooting was a message from God to the gays". The fuck.
@@thedullfork damn, don't think that would ever happen here. Probably get more depressed and sad comments in sadness or horror over the shooting, could see the priest shame someone for saying something so nasty
@@jakelee7083 Oh that's not the only reason I left. Like I said, there really wasn't a time in my life where I was really into going to church, I just went because that was expected of me. That comment from the elder was the final straw, yeah, but I was already kinda one foot out the door for a number of other reasons.
It's kind of heartwarming how Mike's parents seem to have some actual social awareness. My own father has said things like that I "shouldn't associate with gays because nobody will respect me," among various other xenophobic comments that I've either never believed from the start or at the very least always found questionable even as a very small child.
Interestingly, Zach's reasoning for leaving religion is the exact reason I stayed with mine (Islam). Where instead of not allowing discussion and punishing it, we were encouraged to do so to learn more and they answered a lot in detail. Tough questions too. Often immediately showing the source from the religious texts.
My bible study teacher had a pretty valid argument to the polytheistic or monotheistic topic. She told me to think of how my dad is a father, a husband, and an assistant principal. My dad has three titles but he isn’t three different people.
I swear, all of this was my experience with religion (Islam) years before I came out as trans and bisexual. I questioned everything and the dogmatic ideals that are forced upon you to conform to the Word or be labeled a heretic is why irked me. And then when I did come to terms with the former, I had already stopped believing because I had a run with people who condemned me for being Bi, let alone thr trans part,which made me super sad that something that I felt was out of my control was why people shunned me. But at least I'm much happier now. If you believe or don't, just know it's okay to be you unapologetically and with no regrets.
The problem with Christianity today is these questions they have a very common and had they been handled with love and by someone who REALLY studied the Bible there’s a strong chance they could still be Christians today. It’s really sad and as a Christian who has spent years studying and conversing with people I apologize for anyone who has reflected badly on my faith
Man, I'm sad to hear about all these bad religious experiences I really like my church, but it seems to be pretty unusual - open to questions, never had a shithole pastor, understands and trusts modern science hand-in-hand with religion, not pushy with donations, and though the denomination is technically homophobic and transphobic, individual pastors and people (like mine!) have become much more accepting and loving.
I cant tell you what started my similar journey, just that I always thought church was boring and I was the curious asshole kind of child whos always thinking and asking questions. I remember reading parts of the Bibble and thinking "Ok that sounds nice, why arent we doing that? Why is there so much conflict and suffering in the world?" I can tell you the what the last straw was though: 10 years ago my Grandma died, unlike a lot of people I was a lot closer to her than most people are with their grandparents. She was basically my de facto mom until I was about 5 because both my parents had to work and couldnt stay home to watch over me. We saw her all the time, a constant part of my life for years. She was basically the postcard of a good Catholic: When she got divorced *in the 1950s* and later took a newer, better, less pile of shit husband, she didnt remarry within the church until her original spouse died. Always observed Lent, went to church every Sunday, and despite being that deep into it herself she really wasnt the evangelical type either. A living Saint. But she was old, and had diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, cataracts, glaucoma, Alzheimer's, basically if it wasnt cancer she probably had it. And it wasnt a nice ending, no, this death took 5 years to stick. 5 years of walking on eggshells with her health, 5 years of watching her get worse and knowing current medical technology cant stop it, 5 years of watching the Matriarch of a whole family forget everyone she knew. *Technically* you could say she passed away as she was sleeping, but only because she fell and that last injury was enough to push her into the grave. Her funeral was the last time I ever went to mass. I've been in churches since then for weddings but thats easy to fake, no ones gonna ask you in the audience about God during someone elses wedding.
The Church teaches we live in a fallen world. Things fall away and entropy tends to affect everything. I often think about this too, why would God want this? Is the whole Universe stretching out and becoming cold and may die eventually, is that all because of human sin creating a fallen world? But it was like that before humans? Creation, existence itself, is absurd to us. Its impossible to fully understand it all. But besides all this it is beautiful, and it's amazing. It is pain and love and fear and trembling to be. But it's a holy experience to be human and I choose to have faith in a reason for it, a plan. God bless you and your grandmother, hope you are doing well now.
