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I think Morj hit it on the head towards the end. If Luffy finds out he is the chosen one, Luffy will simply still do whatever he wants, breaking that destiny because he is the freest man
I can imagine Luffy being told he’s the “chosen one” then he rejects it but still subconsciously does what the “chosen one” was supposed to do with his own twist to it
Thats what exactly it is lol its both free will and destiny luffy controls his destiny but the prophecy sees the future of someone getting it right and ane just mentioning it centuries prior of the right timeline where the prophecy works
That's the obvious answer because being "chosen one" inherently implies destined to fight the world govt and evil forces in the world. So what's Luffy gonna do to defy it? NOT be the good guy and do the opposite? No. He will do the clearly right thing anyway like anybody else would. There's literally no running away from the end result.
@@lancevance6346 But the thing is we dont know what being JoyBoy means. We have very limiting information about the history of this world and what we have is so vague that its impossible to paint a clear image without taking huge leaps of faith. Hence we dont know the what it means to be the chosen one. All we know is that Luffy isnt going to anything he doesnt want and nobody can force him to do it.
In my culture, you can be meant to/very good at something, but fail because you chose to be lazy or not act on it. If Luffy had chilled out a bit and decided not to train for two years, would he have still been able to do what he's doing now? Fate is a helping hand, not your babysitter. Have you ever heard of the saying "god helps those who help themselves"? Luffy is a soul that embodies freedom more than anyone else, so he's the only one that will take the actions he will take, because everyone else is obviously not Luffy. It's more of a matter of character than strength, emphasized by the use of Conqueror's Haki in the series. We're also constantly being shown other pirates that have failed their calling as well. To say that all of Luffy's accomplishments until now were luck would be insulting.
that fate you speak about isn't fate at all - is just a view on meritocracy. We're talking about fate in the philosophical manner. Fate is indeed supposed to be a babysitter, anything different than that is just different than what philosophy commonly calls fate. Now in One Piece Fate might not be 100% deterministic like philosophy and that would be different, since it's a fantasy world. Any way, there's a lot of things that can affect it. Fate might be something the characters themselves talk about and doesn't exist, Luffy will be called the chosen one and then he will say "I'm not that, I'm Luffy not joy boy, screw you" and there's that. Just because characters are saying things and attaching all these - let's call it - labels on Luffy doesn't mean he will live by then. Luffy lives by the rules he set to himself. Now, if this is fate and luffy was meant to be and do and say everything he did say that's one thing, if he's doing what he wants and people says "naw that's just fate bro" that's other thing. It depends on how Luffy reacts, in my opinion. Characters can and should have different opinions than the author. Oda might be just laying all these facts to us just to inflate our heads with "luffy is the chosen one, of course since he's the protagonist" just to go and make Luffy flip the finger at us and say he ain't that. And then all the talk about Luffy being the chosen one will die out slowly, or make a huge part from here as a misconception from World Government. After all they fear fate and the prophecy that something is bringing the end of the era where they currently rule.
@UCpp6APV_TRkgHUfmSI4hcpw If I'm so fundamentally wrong about it, please enlighten me. You can't just call me wrong and not offer your opinion in the matter. Well, you can AND did, but that's kinda boring. I did no metaphor if you're talking about my view about the meritocracy thing. Maybe I chose a weird word for it - yes - but that doesn't make my entire argument false either. Or if you're talking about the babysitter thing - well - I was just trying to use the OP own words. The thing is, Fate IS deterministic, that's my entire point. At least it is in a philosophical way. That's Morj was talking about it too. Any view that differs from this one isn't Fate as Philosophy views it and then it isn't a philosophical discussion either. That's the point.
For me is simple and I don't get why so many people struggles with this... simply read carefully Gold Rogers Words and you will understand the meaning of "Destiny" in this series. “Inherited Will, The Destiny of the Age, and The Dreams of the People. As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of Freedom, these things will never cease to be!" - Gol D. Roger” It is so clear that someone's destiny is only fulfilled if you "PURSUE FREEDOM" with all your strength ..... and we have been said like a hundreds of times..that the pirate king vision of luffy is to be the "freest men of the entire world"....Soooo.. Yep, Luffy is the Chossen one, but juts because he has the strongest will .. ..otherwise.. we'll be reading anything else..
But everyone still gonna burn and roast Luffy alive, because you know.... He's now a generic Shonen protagonist, with no redeeming quality, doomed to fail like Naruto 🥺
By that logic, isn't it more so that Luffy Chose himself as the One by dreaming it and seeing it through? The Destiny of the Age pretty much just sets it so there will be opportunities for people to raise to crazy occasions and pull things the way they see through with their own actions, a la Blackbeard in Marineford
@@justbny9278 agreed, chosen one is similar to aang where by birth he was destined to be the avatar. To become the pirate king luffy inherited this dream from shanks as he saw what a pirate can be.
@@lucaswibisono1316- you mean besides inspiring people to take action in their lives m, treat everyone as a equal and letting them decide on what they want to be.
This has always been set up imo as one of the final thematic fights. I mean, Luffy believes in his freedom, while Blackbeard and crew trusts in their fate. It's bound to clash at some point.
It would be nice if we discovered, trough his flashbacks, that Kaido was always viewed as the chosen one, the one with the destiny to do big things, and so a great anxiety grew on him because he believed in all that, but ultametly had to hace that he is not. On the other hand, altough a lot of people may think the same about Luffy, he doesn’t care. So the contrast between these 2 aproaches to the “burden” of being the chosen one may be a theme in the resolution of Kaido vs Luffy.
There have also been other "chosen ones" like Roger, Ace, Shanks who failed to fulfill their purpose. Luffy just happens to be the right guy at the right time, which is not unreasonable given the world had to wait hundreds of years for someone like him to show up.
that makes sense - you could argue that if Kaido would make a move against the celestial dragons or whatever the prophecy of Joyboy pertains, he could probably succeed. but because he was told that he's not the chosen one he never gave it a shot and instead manufactured weapons for the End war that was prophecised. Luffy may hear that he IS the chosen one and reject it in favor of doing his Pirate king adventure to conclusion, not putting any stock in what others deem to be worthy.
Oda is setting Luffy up to be this "Chosen one" so that Luffy can decide eventually to not be. Luffy's smile when he was about to die, the way Roger died, the way Whitebeard died, that's where this story is going. Always remember that this story was always a journey, not a destination!
Great Video. I only disagree with 1 thing. Luffy having a special DF does not effect the story at all. Because for devil fruits to awaken you have to master them. Its not like his gum gum attacks will go away. But for the devild fruit to be unlocked someone like luffy needs to come along. Someone who is genious enough in its ussage to unlock it. Thats why its a myth. Hardy anyone could do it in the past.
It does because the appealing thing about luffy was that he didn't get amazing powers on a silver plate....but now he's born with the strongest haki and probably have the strongest fruit
@@cvox607 It doesnt. The reality is, Luffy was still just a teenage, wih Rubber abilities for a big part of the story. Luffy did not know about haki, let alone how to use it. We knew Luffy was special from the start, btw: some of you just pushed this agenda of a ordinary boy reaching the top, despite the fact no ordinary person does that, theres always something special involved, which is what differenciates everyone;
@@miguelccorreia4576 people didn't come with this idea out of nowhere ..oda always emphasize on how luffy ability is nothing special and that it's effective thanks to his creativity..... there's no agenda here it's in the text..if he started turning into monkey king god now all of the sudden now it spits all over that...deny it all you want but that's the truth of it Not a single person before whowho chapter thought about luffy fruit as amazing...now people are acting like they knew all the time it was special....stop the bs We knew luffy was special no shit....no one thought he was averege joe...but there's special and there joy boy sun god Nika reincarnation that the world revolve around him with also a legendary fruit....it makes luffy into a Gary stue...it makes everyone beside luffy irrelevant ( like how the hell can kid compete for example ) and it's all in all a cliche and washed out trop that for some reason japanese old men like kishi and oda think it's the coolest thing ever
@@cvox607 Luffy still survive most of its yearly fights thanks to said creativity; The spoilers from chapter 1043, which what Morj talked about in the video, did not take away any development nor struggle from the yearly story; Even if you say theres no agenda and that people knew about the fact Luffy was never ordinary, you still argue under the basis of the idea of an "ordinary guy magically reaching the top"; And btw, no ones saying that the Gomu Gomu no Mi was meant to be special from the start, im arguing about Luffy, and the idea that he was a normal dude; Before you ask me to stop the bull, learn how to read; As for the last point, its not stated that this is a reincarnation thing, thats an assumption; Inhereted will and destiny doesnt mean that a character must be the reincarnation of something. And, the world revolves and the main character in pretty much every narrative; The straw hats only exist to support the main character, that has always been the case; Dont get me wrong, the devil fruit being actually something of a legend is a bit cheezy, we are on the same page. But Luffy has never been an ordinary guy.
While I don't think it is going to be a traditional chosen one story and I never wanted Luffy to be the chosen one. The best and funniest part about it happening is now I can laugh at fellow One Piece fans for mocking Naruto and Bleach for having chosen one stories.
Same. Just because it foreshadowed doesn't mean it's good. Oda has been dropping hints about Luffy having legendary df, but only after 1000 chapters. We know Luffy is special from his actions since pre-ts, but now we are at a point only Luffy is every possible legend's incarnation. One thing with Naruto was his character arc was completed after Pain arc. And anyone have a chance in becoming hokage. In One Piece, title of Pirate King is special bcz nobody has achieved it. But, it feels like it is a title only Luffy can achieve no matter who else works hard. Still, I love One Piece. But, fans should drop the hypocrisy. Fate and free-will can't co-exist or the author should expand on it himself.
Luffy talked with Joyboy in some weird dimension. Joyboy told him about his sons Ashura and Indra and how Luffy is reincarnation of Ashura while Zoro is reincarnation of Indra. Luffy and Zoro wake up with new powers and tell Kaido they'll stop him. This is why Naruto sucks ...after pain arc Naruto sucks .it was destined to fail !!
People were too attached to the underdog aspect of Naruto. Probably why they cried about the “chosen one” thing. I never really cared. Won’t care too much in OP either. It’s all about execution
I dont know why people think that luffy and his devil fruit arent two separate things. Other person with his devil fruit would not accomplish what he does through will alone. Only Luffy could do what Luffy does.
THIS! 100% this! I’m sure Luffy isn’t the only person in history to ever get the Gumo Gumo no mi! But Luffy is the only one who is Luffy! He awakened the fruit not because he was destined to, but because of who he is
I'm happy with the idea of the world expecting someone who will bring the dawn (probably a D) and then Luffy is just that person because of the way he is. I don't think anything in Wano has changed that. Until we get some specificts about Luffy's birth conected with a profecy, it's all still very vague. It would have to be something like "a boy borned in this circunstances or the descendant oh this person" and that ONLY apllies to Luffy.
No amount of detail even ruins anything. The profecy is likely written somehow by a previous holder of the Toki Toki power. So it's not a prediction or magic or fate but rather time travel shit. Which comes with it's own issues. Who can influence the present in a way that will change the seen future etc.
@@Sekooma That just can't be the case. It's been made clear that the Toki Toki doesn't allow to travel backwards so if someone came into the future he would've died there and the fruit would have reincarnated at the same point in the timeline. Pls don't use the awakening argument to just try to justify a theorie that contradicts the rules established by the manga
@@mikedcometa5808 It's a sound argument though. If I'm wrong and it's not time travel, what's the alternative? Could be like a madam Shyarly kinda situation but that's just another form of future vision.
@@Sekooma I think the Shyarly alternative has better chances of being true and yeah it doesn't really change the specifics but I'm not sure how else to spin it
Luffy is a character who is doing whatever the hell he wants, whenever he deems fit. He doesnt care about whether he is good or bad in the eyes of the public. He only cares about his crew and his dream. He did not help Nami because he knows the backstory of Cocoyashi, he helped Nami because she is fun to be with, useful for his dream and consider her as a friend (selfless yet selfish). He shares the same beliefs and principles with Roger, but he never met him. He only knows Roger as father of Ace. Regarding Joyboy, Luffy is nowhere related to him, but we can see the parallels. Inheriting will means inhering their beliefs and dreams, just like Hiluluk and Chopper, Sanji and Zeff, etc. Inheriting will DOES NOT mean that they will inherit the POWER of their predecessor, which is why a lot of people can have problems with Luffy being chosen one or being Joyboy having the same powers.
@@tiktokasylum5186 yeah it is hypocritical and it can be a problem of Luffy's character if Oda will go this route. However, let's way for the execution of Oda as we trusted him long enough in this series.
The chosen one idea I hope Luffy is becoming is something i want similar to the Dark Souls 1 chosen one. Wherein there never was a chosen one, it could have been anyone. It just so happened that Luffy fulfills the criteria because of his personality and so people are lead to believe he is the chosen one. But in reality it could have been anyone with that level and sense of freedom
@@iamnotinvolved1309 are you into DS1 lore? The idea of a "chosen undead" is something the Gods created because they are desperately finding anyone even the undead to become strong enough to link the fire. The player was never a chosen one, but rather someone who stuck through the game to make it all the way to the end. Meaning, it was all a coincidence. It could have been anyone, it just so happened to be the player character (unless you dropped the game before the ending, then that means you were one of the hollowed instead).
@@username-ql8ox Wow that's actually a really interesting approach. I've never dived too deeply into DS1 lore even tho I've beaten the game a few times, many years ago now lol.
@@iamnotinvolved1309 it fits nicely in One Piece as well, since there is no actual "prophecy" or anyone who can see the actual future. That means anybody claiming "it's the work of destiny" is bs. All they can say is "perhaps this is the guy Roger is waiting for" or "one day a man will come to bring down the heavens". It could be anyone with that particular characteristic. We just so happen to know it will be Luffy since he's the protag, but i have the feeling that he wont even care about such "prophecies". Even the term "the next Joyboy" is something more akin to a criteria rather than an actual prophecy, so this is also inline with this
I like the idea that the completion of Joyboy's will is inevitable because time is infinite and eventually someone will be able to find the One Piece and free the world. We are following the one who will do that not because Luffy was chosen from birth but because he is the final straw that will break the camel's back. We had Joyboy, Rocks, Kaido and Ace, among probably many others who tried/were thought to be able to achieve this. They were all harbingers of Joyboy's will and so is Luffy. It just happens to be that finally someone with Joyboy's will emerged at the right moment. In a way there has been generations of Joyboy but finally this is the time in which the world is ready to be freed. It's almost as if the world of One piece is destined for something but everyone in it is free to get there however they want to.
Monkey D. Luffy is the chosiest of the chosen ones! He received the hat of the great joyboy from the great yonko who was the apprentice of the pirate king. He ate the rarest devil fruit who belonged to joyboy himself. His grandpa is the hero of the marines who defeated the previous pirate king "Rocks D. Xebec". He's the son of the most wanted man on earth "Monkey D. Dragon". He has a D. on his name, being descendent of a mysterious and ancient people. The reincarnation of Roger itself. The king of sea creatures and the God Nika! Destined to greatness MONKEY D. LUFFY!!!!
Yeah, watching this right after reading the spoilers is pretty intense. Imma keep the comment section spoiler free though y'all feel free to check it out on Reddit.
Mr Morj, u are the best thing related to one piece on youtube. No content creator loves one piece more than u. The community is blessed to have u. While other peeps are cashing up on hype on this platform. U are breaking down the aspect of one piece we love the most "the story". Keep up the good work mate.
As long as it doesn't feel like he was born special and earned the chosen one title through amazing feats, pure character, and a tremendous amount of work and hardship, I think it would be acceptable then. It's about BECOMING the chosen one where the invitation to do so is open for all to try and not just being chosen from birth. To me, the chosen one cliche only works well if the threat of failure is still very real throughout it all.
Let's be honest though, the threat of failure has never been real. Luffy was always gonna be pirate king, he was always gonna beat the big bad at the end of the arc, he always does even when logically it makes zero sense he should be able to. You could argue the arc before he wasn't even able to truly defeat a first commander but in a few months he can beat strongest in the verse.
We all choose to do things everyday, partly because we have to, partly because we want to. Luffy wants freedom, he hates everyone who tells him what to do (Nami is an exception sometimes, or anyone else from his crew), but that doesn't mean he can't be a chosen one. Most of these are pretty humble. So that fits him. He did choose most of his crew members for different reasons. Strenght for Zorro, intelligence for Nami, creativity for Usopp, kindness for Sanji, weirdness for Chopper and Brook, trust for Jimbei. The two people he didn't want to take by himself were Robin and Franky. Robin invited herself and Franky grew on him through the Enies Lobby fight and he needed a shipwright- so yeah, why not? We have come to a point were also simply noone else makes sense as Joyboy/Nika than him.
Spoilers came out on monday this week and he got spoiled + all the hints even before that. This video makes sense as a response to the fandom talking about the possibility of luffy being a child of destiny.
"These are things that cannot be stopped: Inherited will, the destiny of an age and the dreams of its people. As long as people continue to pursue the meaning of freedom, these things will never cease to be!" ~Gol D. Roger, Chapter 100 As soon as I read that page, I already knew that this would be one of the main themes of the story, but for some reason it doesn't feel forced like with Naruto.
I think One Piece still skirts the issues of chosen one plots because everything surrounding the "destiny" or "prophecy" of JoyBoy isn't something handed to Luffy. He works hard to achieve his dream and the world is opposed to him, and the World Government's and the Yonko's fighting against him is what is creating the man who will take them down. The world had this coming, and I'm happy that the man this world made is such a lovable guy.
Luffy was born at a specific timeline along with his crew and the people he’s met so far. There is no such thing as accidents/coincidence; everyone is born with a purpose and it is up to them to fulfill it or not. In Luffy's case, his dream/ideals align to his purpose of freedom , unity and the new era. Every encounter was meant to mold his character and redirect him from straying away. The concept of Chosen One was not forced upon him, but rather his will to forge his path and behind all of his decisions were influenced by the people he was surrounded with. So even if luffy were to find out that he is the Chosen One, he will just have a better understanding of his role to play.
Maybe. But in my POV is still deeper than that. If luffy is like this because of his special devil fruit and of the inherited will of joyboy. Then his sense of freedom is not his own character.
I always felt that Luffy was set up to be the chosen one ever since I watched the louge town arc 19 years ago. I don't think it takes away anything from his accomplishments 1) He thought he would die at Louge town and accepted his fate with a smile and was saved. 2) in Enies Lobby arc he creatively used his devil fruit to get stronger to fight against CP9 and declared war on the world government to save Robin. 3) When Ace was captured and imprisoned in impel down, he broke into a prison that not many people have ever broken out of. 4) In Marine Ford it was said that what made Luffy special was not his power, but the fact that he can attract all kinds of people to help him (hancock, crocodile, allies in Dressrosa, etc.) 5) When Sanji left to protect Zeff and went to whole cake island, Luffy dropped everything to go and save him and even told Sanji he can't become the pirate king without him. Luffy worked hard to get to where he is now. He won't achieve his dream without his crew. Being Joy Boy does not take away from that because Luffy has always been special. I would argue that he went to save his friends because thats who he is. He either was always Joy Boy, which means he was the same charachter we loved since the beginning of the story or he just awakened to be joyboy through his journey (likely since seakings and zunisha didnt acknowledge him to be joyboy in earlier arcs) The other big mysteries that we need to know is how the Devil fruits work? Why do they reincarnate when a user dies? Does Blackbeard also have another type of "Joy Boy" side to him which allows him to access more than one Devil fruit and not sleep. If thats the case then we could say it was foreshadowed because there is already someone in the story like that. I think this story could get so much better.
6:14 this right here is my main concern. For the whole story he’s had an average devil fruit that people have made fun of but HIS ingenuity allowed him to become strong. Now it’s like well…none of that matters because he was just going to awaken with a random OP ability when he died anyway. All of his struggles and power ups mean nothing if that’s the case.
I would like to add that Naruto's "destiny" plotline is actually a lot more complicated than people have come to view it as. I think a lot of us maybe haven't read Naruto in awhile and are going just off memory, but he was also not neccisarally prophesied to be "the one," but rather, his actions made him "the one" out of multible people it could have been. And then the reincarnation stuff is a while nother subject that reinforces the idea that you can break your destiny
Luffy talked with Joyboy in some weird dimension. Joyboy told him about his sons Ashura and Indra and how Luffy is reincarnation of Ashura while Zoro is reincarnation of Indra. Luffy and Zoro wake up with new powers and tell Kaido they'll stop him..... this is why Naruto sucks!!
Precisely this. The majority of “hate” Naruto receives today is usually coming from those that haven’t seen it in years and may have only completed it once
@@unseenclips5149 Exactly. It's explicity made clear that Pain and Naruto were BOTH the child of prophey, but whichever person won their fight would be "the one" to bring great change; for good or for evil. And then Kishi doubled down and subverted the idea of being predestined by having Naruto be the reincarnate of Asura. Because that would mean he would be destined to war with Sasuke until death, but Naruto broke his destiny by mending the centuries-long feud. Not to mention that most reincarnates of the two weren't anything special; meaning that Naruto wasn't super powerful just because he was a reincarnate!
I find that most people hate the idea of Luffy being a chosen one because they think it takes away his free will and that is just so fucking stupid. Luffy since the very beginning was the chosen one in a meta sense and even as far back as east blue he was foreshadowed to be the man who changes the world. I feel like most of the hate for this idea stems from a hate of Naruto and other series that have used the chosen one trope but that's just me
of course Luffy is the man who's going to change the world, but thinking him being the CHoasen One dooesn't take away his freedom is the stupid thing imo... Luffy's whole character is about how simple minded and free he is, if he is destined to fulfill a task he is literally a slave to this greater force. Oda wont go this route, I'm sure... I think its as simple as a Joyboy is destined to appear eventually and Luffy is simply the character who will fill the shoes not because he's destined to, but because he wants to
@@soulkiller3391 kishimoto had to kill Neji in the war because everything he said to Naruto during their fight was true. Naruto is a good series but let’s not act like it’s some perfect masterpiece.
@Totally Anime It's a total clusterfuck from Kishimoto. BS reincarnation out of the blue just to prolong the story and weird power-ups. No wonder the manga fell off after that.
Even if Luffy has a different special fruit I don't think it would make him the chosen one. By nature of his personality he ate the fruit. He wasn't born with any special powers. As the Gorosei said, the fruit hasn't been awakened in centuries, he through his own efforts would be bringing out his fullest potential due to a mixture of fate and effort. Maybe it was predicted, but that doesn't mean that it was destine to happen or succeed. Through luck and determination Luffy has made it this far, he has been so close to complete failure and death many times and overcome those challenges without any predestine powers.
I like this take, Oda probably only heavily introduced the chosen one idea later on because he wanted to be confident in how he will resolve the theme of freedom. The ancient Kingdom that came up with these prophecies probably has some flaws (considering it got toppled in the end), this makes Luffy doubly in need to be free from the chosen one concept. Bege really put it best that the future can be seen, it would probably be true, but it can be changed. BB even acknowledged this earlier on back in Jaya which had a lot of foreshadowing for the theme of dreams and inherited will.
Lets look at it from this point of view: Luffy isnt the chosen one because He is the way He is. The way He is makes him the chosen one. Does this make Sense?
@@trilightning yes, his motivations are selfish but the results of his actions are selfless. Evidenced when he fought Crocodile because of Vivi and probably the old man (own desires), not because he wanted to save the people of Alabasta as a whole, but still beat Crocodile regardless and freed the whole country.
@@trilightningagree I think there's no chosen one, there's the Waited one, one piece world waits for someone to bring the Dawn, but this doesn't mean that the Joy boy is a person chosen since birth
"Later"... since chapter 1 was set the idea of destiny and chosen one...read Gol D. Roger Words. famous quote about destiny, inherit will, and freedom.
Inherited will, especially if it is indeed somehow tied to a devil fruit and its previous users, can square the circle of free will and "being chosen". Because then, his free will actually lead to him being "chosen" in the first place. Which in turn affected the way he acts.
I like the idea that the JoyBoy mandate is a thing of genealogical inheritance. This doesn't automate any of the D's as being JoyBoy, but from the D's, one will eventually arise to deliver. This means that destiny isn't inevitable, but has to be chosen by a person. This is probably why it's taken 800 years for JoyBoy to come back.
I want to point to the fact that Kaido said " you couldn't be joyboy either " it seems like those who knows want to be the joyboy, that means Luffy isn't distend to be joyboy but he's working up to get there, idk that sounded a lot cooler in my head. ps: trust in Oda.
Hard disagree at 1:00. People were mocking Naruto not because it was a chosen one story but because 1stly Naruto was portrayed as a nobody, a guy without talent and 2ndly, the story pushes the idea that a nobody can become great with training. Just to throw all of it out of the window after Pain death in Shippuden. Luffy was always seen as someone special. Since the 1st episode. A kid with DF in East blue (a DF on the weakest see), knows Shanks a great pirate (confirmed in Baratie after Mihawk met him), knows Yassop (Ussop's father member of Shanks' crew), saved by lightning and mysterious man at Logue town, smiled before nearly dying, rang the bell after centuries in Skypiea, son of Dragon and Garp's grandson at W7... The list is huge. There are so many facts laid down the line to hammer home the idea that Luffy is special. So Luffy being a chosen one now isn't that surprising at all, nor contrary to what we've been shown since the beginning.
Naruto was always special though, he had the strongest tailed beast in his body and was performing kage level feats at age 12. Shippuden didn't throw it all out you just didn't understand part 1s message. People like to hype up lees fight with gaara when he lost badly as hard work can only get you so far. The lesson with that fight is that even if you aren't the best or talented you can still do great things. Say what you will about narutos advantages but you are lying to yourself if you think he didn't work hard to get as strong as he is.
Wrong. Naruto was never portrayed as a nobody. He was perceived as a huge threat. The main theme of Naruto is not hard work overcomes all. That was a minor theme in arc. The overall theme of Naruto is confronting hatred. The difference between how Naruto internalized his trauma and how his opponents did to bring them to different paths on the same road. The nine tailed fox is literally the embodiment of hatred living in Naruto and he overcomes it. Every single arc and every single person Naruto faced in a major way was used to mirror this theme. The difference in how ppl confront hatred. He wasn't portrayed as a nobody. An entire village doesn't hate a nobody. He was portrayed as living evil and everyone around him fueled their hate of the nine tails at him. That's not a nobody sir. That's a somebody viewed in a negative light. For pretty much all of shippuden was build up of Naruto surpassing his limits and predecessors and the limits they couldn't achieve because everyone he turned to love him from day one believed if anyone could do anything it was Naruto. Hence his entire ninja way and why everyone who grows to know and love him believes in him fully. It was a well written example ppl just get hung up on one moment in story with rock Lee but it was never the main or even a major theme pass that point. Which is why I appreciate TotallyNotMarks take on that arc. He immediately realized the flaw n how ppl view the series because that was a small subtheme and ppl latch on to t because of a character they love so much Lee.
Spot on analysis. I'm definitely worried about Luffy somehow being the chosen one, or something extremely special not by his own ability, but because of something he was born with. But like you said, that would fly in the face of the entire series up to this point being about freedom to chose your own path. I'll just have to have faith in Oda till we get things cleared up
@@SonGoku-uv4pk I agree. I probably didn't word it right. It's okay if he has important/strong family. I mean more as in him being the chosen one or BORN to be Joyboy. If he becomes a Joyboy like figure due to his own efforts, then that's fine. But being a reincarnation or destined to become the savior feels like it goes against the stories messages on freedom. But Oda could also use that fact to reinforce the messages by having Luffy defy them in some way (not sure how since they seem to line up with him stopping the WG and bringing freedom to the world)
I've not been a big fan of morj's videos for some time because I felt he read a lot into the story for his line of argument and eventually could make anything sound plausible, but this video was really enjoyable, loved it. Especially since it's not really theorizing about the course of the story but just laying out what one piece is for him and the key messages of it.
I think it’s a combination. I think the ancient Kingdom lost the war after Joyboys death. They took his devil fruit and you needed 3 things to awaken jt. There were other gum-gum fruit users that didn’t have the will of D, so they couldn’t/didn’t awaken it. To add, there may have been another will of D user who got the fruit, but didn’t have the will to awaken it, much like I believe how Kiado’s fruit works. So, to be the next JoyBoy you have to have 3 things: 1. Will of D. 2. Gum Gum fruit 3. The Will to awaken it. 2/3 =\= awaken thus no….Sung God/JoyBoy.
A lot of people's problem with Naruto's execution of the chosen one is that the manga is against the very idea of talent and unchangeable fate until the moment that Naruto becomes the chosen one in every conceivable way. If Luffy ended up as the chosen one because of his choices, it wouldn't contradict anything One Piece has set up. On top of that, Oda had already set up and killed off the perfect stereotypical "chosen one" character. Ace had everything going for him up until the moment that even his fate couldn't save him, in this universe it's just an undefined route that anyone with the right traits can go down.
To be fair though, Naruto isn't really "against the very idea of talent and unchangeable fate". If Naruto wasn't talented, he wouldn't have been able to learn and utilize the Shadow Clone Jutsu within mere hours. Also, he certainly wouldn't have been able to master the Rasengan within the very narrow time frame that Tsunade set for him, if he wasn't talented. With regards to the unchangeable fate part, Naruto routinely does change his fate. Even at the end of the series, you can see this in action; his fate was decided by the Indra/Ashura karma, and he very clearly breaks free of that and brings an end to the cycle of hatred.
Naruto was never against the idea of talent. When the most talented fighter and the most hard working fighter fought, the hard worker lost. That was never the main theme about Naruto, it was mostly about overcoming hatred and pain. Re read the first chapter, there was much more focus on Naruto being hated and an outcast for being a jinjurichi than there is for him not being talented
There once was a man named Gold Roger, who was King of the Pirates. He had fame, power, and wealth beyond your wildest dreams. Before they hung him from the gallows, these were the final words he said: "My fortune is yours for the taking, but ONLY IF YOU WEAR THE STRAW HAT OF LEGEND, IF YOU ARE THE REINCARNATION OF AN IMMORTAL SPIRIT AND ATE THE RUBBER FRUIT. I left everything I own in One Piece FOR THIS SPECIFIC PERSON." Ever since, pirates from all over the world set sail for the Grand Line, searching for One Piece, the treasure that would make their dreams come true, BUT ONLY ONE OF THEM WAS DESTINED TO FIND IT SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING.
It's still unclear how this will all play out, but if Luffy is destined to be Joyboy I think that destiny probably comes more from the inherited will of the gomu gomu no mi than his birth.
The will of D disproves all this tbh cuz no matter what someone from that don would be Joy boy not anyone. Plus what did luffy even do to earn the voice of all things? Nothing he just got it
I'm of the opinion that Joyboy is an idea, an ideal type of person that can replicate and fulfill the Dreams of the real Joyboy (that was actually a person). I think Shanks is manipulating events so that Luffy becomes that person, as oppossed to Ace that might've been Joyboy as well (maybe Shanks stopped Kaido during Maniford because Kaido thought Ace was Joyboy? And Shanks wanted him to die so Luffy could be Joyboy?) I think Fire and Joyboy are closely connected, which might be why Kaido thought it was Ace. All of this seems to end up revolving around Luffy's Devil Fruit, and I'm pretty sure the One Piece and all the secrets of the Void Century, Joyboy, and the Ancient Kingdom revolve around Devil Fruits themselves.
The idea of destiny can only exist when its reached, there aren't types or kinds. Nothing changed from when it was a destiny to be fullfilled to when it became luffy's destiny.
All that's happened is likely that someone like Madame Shyarly, back in the Void Century, saw Luffy doing what they failed to do in their own time. It's hard to say for certain since the story of the Void Century is still largely unknown, but the concept of inherited will, aka passing the baton, in One Piece is far from new. What's important to note is that when someone "inherits the will" of another, they don't gain any power or anything, they just feel the same about a situation and will do what the person previous failed to. That's all Joyboy is and all being Joyboy means, inheriting the will of a civilization that has had their existence erased. Nika = Joyboy. The story of the Sun God Nika is the story of Joyboy, passed on through oral tradition. Over 800 years, the story has diluted from Joyboy - the man with the Nika-Nika no Mi, to the story of Nika the Sun God. I wouldn't even call it a "chosen one" plot or a plot of destiny because that trope is used to describe someone who succeeds simply because the writer wills it. If I'm right which is what seems logical to me at least, by this point, that means Luffy has succeeded on his own, just someone way in the past saw that he would and placed their belief in Luffy.
Less than a minute in and I feel like I have to say something... I am still disappointed by how Naruto, someone who was supposed to overcome adversity, through determination, as it was his "ninja way" (one of the key concepts of the narutoverse), was revealed to have been the prophesied hero... betraying a key part of the character. - the will of fire concept was, in my opinion, mishandled leading to moments of talk-no-jutsu which I occasionally found lackluster. My sympathy for Naruto ended after the revelations of the reincarnation process, his notable lineage and what seemed like a plot hole regarding the lack of care for the jinchuriki child of the fourth hokage, especially from Minato's sensei or student, who should have done something other than spying on him from a distance, considering their relation with his father. One piece, on the other hand, features the concept of inherited will, and is mostly associated with Luffy, linking him to key figures in history, since very early in the series (practically the very first chapter when considering what Shank saw in Luffy). The concept of Inherited Will, allows someone as capable as Oda to depict Luffy as someone who can finish "Joyboys" work (Joyboy seemingly a title). The revelation of Luffy being the next Joyboy, while unpopular, and if handled properly, could hardly be said to resemble the betrayal of a story's key concept like what occurred in Naruto. There is no guarantee that Luffy is 'destined' for greatness/success, as Naruto was, only that he is the latest to be given the opportunity to finish what had begun centuries ago. Anyone who actually knows these series, should know better than to say One Piece is heading the same route as Naruto.
This. At the first half, naruto were potrayed as failure, stubborn, no friends. His battle vs neji sums it up, that we expect that he will change that through sheer will & effort. While later, he is suddenly revealed to be son of a genius hokage, reincarnation of shinobi god, gaining sudden power boost, while previously get wrekt by madara & no chance of winning. Its all worse with madara's demise & final villain which comes out of nowhere. Thats my problem with naruto. The change is too sudden, slapped right in your face, leaves even hardcore fans disappointed. But let's see how oda deliver this. Luffy being the chosen one didn't leave that taste for me. he already can stand toe to toe against kaido even before this awakening. The world knew he is special, notorious criminal "Son of dragon", shanks already commented "maybe he is the man you seek, captain (roger)" early in the series, and the struggle & stake is always real so being the chosen one doesnt exempt him from major defeat (sabaody, impel down, marineford)
@@ft7730 Yes.... continuing with that point, it is well known that Luffy has the initial D (natural enemy of god or the cause of storms) and conqueror haki (apparently 1 in several million possess this). Although some context is new, Luffy has been known to have been quite special for a substantially long time. It still does not change the fact Luffy's power is largely derived from his work during the timeskip (gears and haki) - in comparison to Naruto who gained the majority of his power during after the timeskip, from either his lineage (Uzumaki life force resulting in opportunity to train in senjutsu, and later surviving biju extraction), prophecy (reincarnation process and resulting jutsu sixpath jutsus), and friendship with Kurama (the strange pseudo super saiyan form that no other biju provides). Unlike Chakra, in which power can be determined by lineage, Rayleigh taught Luffy that the "flower of haki would bloom in battle", emphasizing the work required to get stronger. regardless of the abilities Luffy's df will later display... as Doflamingo had said, it would only come those who pushed the df to its limit... stressing the effort required to accomplish such a feat. - It's not much of a guess to say that it is likely Luffy's DF awakening, but again, it would be the result of the work done by Luffy.
I've never seen a RU-vidr before who resembles me so perfectly as you do, even your body language and way of speaking is an almost exact copy of mine. Anyway, great intellectual analysis as always.
People also need to remember that destiny and fate are different things. Destiny is you choosing your own path, fate is predetermined and unchangeable. Luffy can be fated to be Joy Boy and bring the Dawn, but the choices he makes in being a prophecy child is his destiny
Dude you are saying the opposite. "Fate is often conceived as being divinely inspired. Fate is about the present, where every decision an individual has made has led them to their present scenario. However, Destiny is the future scenario, which cannot be determined by decisions an individual will make." - Google
@@ayushnath3768 gee, thanks Google for giving me something that isn't true. They are both about the present and future. Destiny is about choice, fate can't be changed
@@ayushnath3768 maybe you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet, and realize there is more than one source of information. The first link you see may be different from the second
Thank you so much for this breakdown, the idea that luffy was always a chosen one seems so crazy. I want to say its newer fans sometimes, but I'm not too sure.
This reminds me a little bit of the chosen one situation in The Realm of the Elderlings series. The mc is clearly stated to be the chosen one foretold in another character's prophecy but his goal as the chosen one isnt to fulfill fate but to subvert it. I think Luffy will be similar in that his chosen one specialness will be his freedom to choose his own fate and the fate of the one piece world.
It's extremely weird to See people freak out about this. This was introduced in the early chapters. And the fate aspect is just a tiny aspect of Luffy. Luffy could have chosen to abandon this whole chosen one fate entirely. And he made it as far as He has through his sheer dedication and his leadership talent. He even came close to dying at several spots throughout the journey. It was his ingenuity that made him use his DF to this ability. Without any of Luffys character the whole journey would have already ended.
Could you point me to the earliest chapters of luffy being foreshadowed as being a "chosen one". His great luck has been highlighted since way back in east blue, he's always been lucky and oda has gone out of his way to say it multiple times in the series, but i don't necessarily think that means he was being portrayed as a "chosen one". Genuinely curious not trying to throw shade or anything
@@kenan-b 1. Roger's quote. 2. Idk if that's an editor's note but it says, "A destiny has begun". 3. He pretty much been foreshadowed in all relevant island such as Skypeia/Jaya and Fishman.
I think if luffy got Joyboys will also through the same DF it wouldnt be a bad thing, it doesnt mean it isnt his own will as well. The series always talked about keeping ones will alive
You're actually reminding me of a post I wrote a few months ago on reddit - it was about how a lot of people act like having a chosen one narrative instantly means a story is bad. Like, once the character is revealed to be a chosen one, the story's shit. Which just doesn't make sense in the slightest. Even if it's not handled in an interesting way, even if it's bland, it's just one bad part of a story, it doesn't ruin the whole thing. Some people just aren't over Naruto and blame that one thing for Naruto getting bad when it's way more than that. This video feels like something every OP fan caught up with the story should watch, because it's preempting a whole lot of dumb things people will probably say if Luffy ends up being a chosen one.
Who says that just because Luffy might be the chosen one that means that he has to be The chosen one like they could do something like yeah he is the chosen one but he decides to go about doing it in his own way or and is the chosen one but it is up to him to decide if you want to do whatever you want he could salle the seas or relax and lay back and never left his island but he chose to want to be a free man he chose he wanted be a pirates and not just a pirate the King and by doing so his choosing to complete his Destiny if that makes sense
The main difference is Luffy was never prophesied as this savior figure that will save the OP world. He's the MC that speaks for his bearing of the plot in itself. However, Oda never framed Luffy as a "chosen one" rather the notion of Joyboy and saving the world was a hopeful wish from many that has started long before Luffy. He's just the one that most think will and can do it.
He was literally given Gol d rogers straw hat, dr kureha literally looked at his wanted poster and said the will of D still lives on, in the anime the scene went to luffy when white beard was talking about the person roger is waiting for
Luffy is joyboy whether you like it or not, I think some of y’all need to reread/rewatch one peice, it’s so easy to miss the foreshadowing but it’s definitely there
@@selahollison2874 But that's my point, the only reason anyone can say Luffy is Joyboy is because we as the audience obviously know this is Luffy's story. However, by the world of OP there is no objective destiny at play here. Luffy's doing all these things because it's him, there have been many people who've tried and failed for reasons, that's the point of inherited will, Luffy's just the closest and will be the one to pull it off most likely.
Katakuri predicted the future and luffy changed that predicted future. In the same way, Luffy changes the future for himself, yet he still fulfills the role of Joyboy. That's what I think at least
(Major AOT spoilers) I just realized how both Luffy and Eren are regarded as two of the greatest protagonists in anime/manga, and both are poised to destroy the world at the end of their story in the name of freedom, yet one portrayed as a paragon of morality and goodness while the other is a paragon of evil.
I disagree because problem is not about what Luffy achieved, he achieved much, but about what fruit he ate. What are the odds that he ate joyboy’s fruit who was related to a god? Sounds like destiny-ish to me. No wonder shanks was immediately “sir take the hat”
Hi Morj, do you think awakening is like swords of one piece? Maybe the devil fruit awakens when it deems the user worthy? Or once the user meets certain criteria/benchmarks?
