I will show you how I quickly and easily tram my milling machine using a few tricks up my sleeve, and then prove how well it works by checking the accuracy using a test indicator.
I know this is an old video but I wanted to take the time to tell you that it's still providing useful information for folks and to say thanks. I just tried your tramming alternative procedure and it worked better than I can do with a Last Word on a bar in the spindle. I used a precision shaft chucked in a collet and because I couldn't afford a cylindrical square I bought a couple of 2-4-6 blocks (affordable, and I can use them for other things) and stood one of them upright to judge against with a bright flashlight held behind. I moved the block so that a surface not interrupted by the holes in the block was against the shaft and it was done in a matter of 5 minutes. That's a great time saving tip for those of us who don't work to tenths precision.
Keith, great machine trades 101 education video for the new guys just getting to know their mills. I’m sure a lot of veterans will also have their eyes opened by the power & precision that their eyes along with some well-placed light as compared to a precision surface can have. After all, the main purpose of that precision machinist square you had there is to check for squareness of a part to easily within .0002” to .0005” simply by comparing the light enhanced gap along the square blade and the part. In my early days as a tool maker I built metal stamping dies & the method used to do the final locating of the pierce punches concentric with the hole in the die block involved only light & sight. By equalizing the beam of light shining around the circumference of the punch your eye (and brain) can position the punch within .0001”, (also referred to as a “tenth” in tool maker slang) of concentricity with the hole. Again Good stuff, Jim Cunningham
Keith, the more you show the Wells Index mill, the more I like it. Looks like a well-designed machine. For those who haven't seen them, both John (Doubleboost) and Tom (Oxtools) have shown use of large Diesel engine wrist pins as cylinder squares, and they appear to be a less expensive alternative cylinder square...especially if you know a diesel mechanic with access to used parts. Not magnetic, but stable enough by use of gravity. Thanks for the demo! -- Mike
Hi Keith. I was dreading retramming my mill. I copied your technique using a 12" engineers square and a precision ground 25mm dia steel bar I use when calibrating my lathe. One finished, I clamped an indicator to the mill spindle, and I ran the pointer up and down the edge of the square. I was delighted to confirm I was within 0.002" over 12". From start to finish, the process took less than 15 minutes. The last time I trammed in the mill by swinging an indicator held in the spindle, to took half a morning! Thanks for a great tutorial. Stuart
Keith, More great information! I have watched about as many tramming videos as there are milling machines! Your method by far makes the most sense and is the easiest. Thanks for your instruction. Regards, Dave
Good Video. This is what I will be doing in class today, for the first time. Thanks, Keith, for all that you do to give back to your most awesome profession (and Hobby)!
Hi Keith, I would have never thought of squaring up the mill that way , tried your method using a precision square and got it within a 2 thousandths watching the light between the quill and square's bevel edge. So easy. Thanks a million.
5 Star HD Tutorial. What a wonderful man teacher The Best I've watch. Amazingly mellow gentle and a master of teaching clearly WOW I'm hoping you have a ton of more tutorials as I've Subscribed Thank You. I want to learn how to use all the machinists hand tools machines by watching from home so as to learn really know what to do, for milling, lathes, grinding, cutting, drilling, boring, threading, tapping, dies etc. You are my New Hero Role Model Sir. So happy here watching you teach me here. I'm extremely appreciative here. Tears in my eyes cause you are so genuine kind, just love it, Been Searching for a man like you. The world is a better place cause of you Master Teacher.
Thank you so much Keith!!! As with the other Machinists here on RU-vid, I learn a little something new every video you make. Just wanted to say thanks for all your efforts!
I do love the Index Milling machines. Thank you once again for the tips on adjusting the gibs, as I can do a nice heavy cut without chatter on my 555 index machine.
Thanks Keith. I was really surprised at how visible the error was with the cylinder square. That is certainly a faster process than only using an indicator.
I think the cylinder allows you a very close initial alignment because the two aligning cylinders allow adjustment of both axis on initial setup due to the cylinder geometry. Because the meeting surfaces are both cylindrical, their contact points if not parallel with each other on both axis, will show gap out of the gate, not so with the square. IT is absolute for two cylinders to connect if both axis planes are parallel with each other. Absolutely great stuff ! I never really gave the cylindrical set up any thought. Thanks madman, always great info. You ARE the man!
I trammed my Bridgeport after I had to dismantle it for transportation (while it was apart I o/hauled the head and table) I tried the DTIs first of all but, as you say you can chase your own tail. Just saw your method of getting it within a few thou by using eyesight and a good square. I I used that, then checked it with a DTI and two parallels..... 0.0005" on the clock with a swing of about 6" first try! Thanks, saved me a lot of hair pulling.
Hi Keith, One more trick to put under my belt, for fast everyday set-up beats the dial, and, can get us close fast if we have to get it dialed in. Thanks for sharing, great practical teaching, Pierre
I used to do the ‘nod’ on a Bridgeport with a dial indicator and found that although it was a bit tricky the first time I soon got used to it. Generally however I found that it was easier to leave the head square and tilt the work.
I liked your presentation Keith. Well done. I have to do the same job tomorrow after moving the mill. I don't own a cylindrical square but DTI method works for me. ;-) Colin
Great video - It seems to me that using a .001 feeler gage with the cylinder square for adjustment purposes would make it really easy to correct the out of alignment feature. Keep the videos coming.
you seem to be a good easy going fella i used 2-4-6 blocks to set mine up without indicating my bridgeport in for many years and worked great to speed things up -and i like that wells i never used one of them but seems to be a fine machine i miss the old days i been running od grinders and goerkle gringing machines the last 20 years i actually sharpen those blades you were talking about now days lol.
We use a precision ground tram ring to set the head, although blocks are good as well. Slightly stoning the surface of the table is recommended to eliminate any nicks which would raise up the ring/blocks.
Id have to agree on the pivot point for the head on a BP. I have a BP that gets used for small jobs but theres just somthing about the machine I dont like. That said the BP gets a hell of a lot of use. I also have a Gate turret mill that I would have to say is just a better machine to use and in a lot of ways I couldnt tell you why its better. Good video thank you.
Kieth,the old timers taught me ,to make a ring about as wide as the table say 8" . And say 2 1/2 wide on flat.I other words a fat wide ring 1/2 inch thich. Make this on the lathe ,finishing it between centers, IN THE SAME TURNING. LIGHTLY CUTING BOTH SIDES down to the center. When done three jaw chuck on the od and bore away the small untrue portion in the middle. Thus you end up with a PERFECTLY FLAT circle plate. You then lightly clean your mill table with a file lay the ring on the table ,then chase your tail using a regular bigger indicator than the last word. You have to tap the head side to side bare handed with your hands,no rubber hammer either,you can still dent it! Do this untill the mill head is On ZERO. IT HAS TO BE PERFECTLY ZERO. if not when you fly cut you will have a concave surface.ITS A PAIN,I can be done.Try 2 indicators at once set at 90 degrees and you will chase two tails."They" make a tool with 2 indicators side by side, dont know who but its pricey!My ring is at the foot of the mill in the oil pool by the knee jack screw.How do we exchange emails privatly?
Best way I always did it was to use a co-ax indicator in the spindle set with its straight feeler rotating on a mini surface plate placed flat on the clean and scraped X/Y table with back gear engaged and at the spindle's lowest speed...Then just adjust the both the nod AND tilt (pitch and yaw) worm gears until you see no movement in the indicator whatsoever...
Hey Keith great video....I do not have a cylinder square but myself and other users can use a hi quality machinist square to do this also....I also would agree that the most popular machines bridgeport southbend etc.. are not usually the most ergonomically user friendly machines...I also go for the underdog! :)
Excellent example of good enough being relevant to the kind of work needing to be done. The Wells Index is a beautifully designed machine and very rugged looking! :o] O,
Thanks for the info. My Father left me a Brown and Sharp Mill. I am about as green a Machinest as they get! But I do fool around on the tools he left me.Made a set of rifle base,s ? I am shore the head is not dead square. Now I know how to check it.Thank you!
You just cost me money.................happy to spend it...........new cylinder square............THANK YOU SO MUCH................David (from Downunder)
With the nod adjustment being in a different position doesn't really matter because on a bridgeport the sideways rotation is on the front which is 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other, nice machine all the same.
Thanks for another great video Keith. What's your view on locking dowel pins? My Elliott Super 16 has nod and tilt dowel pins that lock the head in place when it is set true. I have done a sweep at 12 inches in tilt and 5 inches in nod and it is true to less than a thousandth. Is there any reason some machines come without them? Set up is easy, simply get close, slip pin in and tighten nuts. Can be done in less than one minute. Vernier scale for tilt and nod are calibrated to zero with pins in. Have you noticed how a lot of machines have quite crude indications that are,at best, only a rough indication of angle? Having an accurate angle indication makes life easier and faster with the knowledge you don't need extra checks to ensure you are absolutely spot on.
+Andrew Wilson I have never used a machine with locking dowel pins as you describe. I think that they should be fine, unless your machine starts to wear and things move from the factory settings.
Hello, Keith been a Machinist for 39yrs I still hate Tramming a head no matter how many times I do it a soon as you tighten the head bolts it moves a thou or two I like to have everything Zero . and that's on a Bridgeport in my home shop I have a Burke Millrite MV mill that's a little different it does not tilt back or nod only side to side but the thing is it has no adjustment screws for the head like a Bridgeport . you have to leave the head bolts snug and tap it with a soft mallet to adjust it . also if you adjust the head on an angle you must hold it and loosen the bolts or it will swing out of your hands
+1995dresser Tramming can be a pain. Tightening things moves it a bit, and what I have to do is anticipate how much it will move and tighten it into tram - a delicate balancing act. At least my Wells-Index is well designed and fairly easy to adjust.
when using the dial indicator on the 123 blocks, wouldnt any little nicks and bumps in the table have a huge effect on the measurement? i mean those tables arent exactly new...
A table would typically be cleaned and lightly stoned before placing vises on it or tramming in the head using 123 blocks. The stones don't remove material like if you were sharpening a knife. You are just feeling for high spots caused by knicks, and can tell when they are gone then you stop stoning.
I can get my Jet 9x49 pretty close but when I put a fly-cutter in and take a light cut on aluminum I don't get a perfectly even cross hatch pattern. First its too far one way then to far the other. Frustrating.
d koshman I am sure that it could be done. It needs to be very accurate and very smooth so it would probably be best to use a grinder to get the finish you want, but if somebody really wanted to make one, it could indeed be done!
Just a couple of things... 2. Now that you've zeroed the 'nod', why don't you zero the angle scale to zero so that it's actually correct ? 1. This is not a technique I'd use on my milling machine.
