Years ago a guy came in the shop with a part for an excavator that needed welded and machined. My boss told him it would be about $300. And he could have it in a week. The guy freaked out and said it was too much and he’d buy a new part for that. He came back in later that week and said he’d like to go ahead with the repair but he needed by the next Monday. Imagine his reaction when my boss told him it’d be $1000 if we needed to overnight the material and work thru the weekend. That was 1996 money
You have to pay upfront, if you want to be taken seriously. Bring cash, and take the first offer. If the work is perfect, ask how they came out. Don't be afraid to add more, if it didn't go well for them. People take work, not knowing the time/cost scale of shipping. $100 shipped "when it gets there" might be $1500 "as fast as we can", and you still have to deal with the shipper. A good reputation is worth a good dollar.
Honest dollar for an honest days' work. Never underquote in any industry. I'm not talking about pushing prices up either. But if you cheapen your work, you cheapen any industry and the skills involved in that work. Freebies are different, but never charge less than what it's going to cost you plus the correct industry rate for your hours.
I needed a 6” long shaft 2” diamachined down 1/8 off... called 5 shops all said no we don’t do things like that.. found one small shop.. said yeah.. show up at 10 am with 4 large coffee and box of doughnuts... it took the guy 10 minuts...
LoL yeah, I have a small hobby shop and am learning about machine work and black smithing. I recently bought a mini lathe, hoping to learn something about that skill. I've spent at least as much on upgrade parts and tooling for the machine as I did buying the thing. Before that, I purchased an oxyacetylene setup. Between the bottles, materials for making a dolly, and the torch kit itself, I've spent $1,100 and that doesn't include consumables. Same with every other thing in my shop. All that expense and we haven't even touched material cost. If I made a part for an acquaintance, and we said that my time wasn't worth much, the part is still going to be expensive due to material, tool, and machine cost. Then you add in how urgently the person needs it, and you've suddenly discovered capitalism. I just payed $200 for a machinist to scotch brite my lathe spindle, and I was happy to pay it because I couldn't do it myself. Anyway, getting something made isn't like going to walmart.
@@mikeznel6048LoL supply and demand is a critical tenet of capitalism. You might even say that without it, capitalism wouldn't work. Kind of like a motorcycle with only one wheel.
@@-8_8- Yes it is. He's talking about how people often don't realize how much things cost or why they cost as much as they do in relation to machined parts. I'm talking about the same thing in relation to the cost of everything.
It will never collapse the way you are thinking. *Because* there is literally an upcoming robot that can do your job, my job, and his job better; and all without payroll taxes, overtime pay, *the pollution caused by your working* , and especially workers rights for the owners to worry about. All their do is give a small UBI so the consumer market doesn’t collapse, and bingo record profits for those with money already. Just like today, but we don’t need to employ Malaysian children, and Chinese political prisoners, for our clothes and trinkets. There was the same “upcoming collapse” idea when child labour laws were created, when (*outside of prison*) slavery was mostly abolished, and lastly when companies started exporting good paying jobs. Some communities were sacrificed, but the vast majority were still happier for the cheaper prices.
Thank you for making these videos, even if I did already know this it’s great positive reinforcement! I hadn’t thought about it that way and it’s true, especially in Alaska… I’m from a small town in Quebec, these people walk in and are looking for help, it’s definitely a service!
I made a small gear sector on a lathe once for a good customer. Cut the teeth with a form tool I hand ground, hand cranked the carriage like a shaper. Did it for a case of beer, it was a really good customer!
This can also apply to standard parts, I recently paid an extra $1500 on top of the $200.00 regular price for a pneumatic cylinder for overnight delivery. It was a standard offering for a made to order cylinder. And yes, I ordered a spare.
Have had many talks like that with potential customers.. . " ABC is cheaper".. " when can they deliver it?" " 2 weeks" " and I can deliver it tomorrow... how much a day do you lose in those 2 weeks?" also had one customer, complained that labour rebuilding a gearbox was more than parts.. so next time I charged him 500 dollars for a 3/8 rod for an input shaft they'd bent and 30 dollars labour.
Agreed. Precise work isn’t an easy task and one off parts take a long time to make. Why take on a lot of responsibility for something that will only pay you less than what you’d make working at a drive thru
Yep. I've always worked at custom low volume machine designs and the major cost on each one is labour. If you need a custom part, you need a custom part.
Thats the part about bidding jobs most "business men" don't get, can we do it, yes, but how long and whats it going to take just to get started... Anyway, I'm pondering starting a little machine shop, and the fix it/make a crazy idea reality jobs are what I'm interested in, but I know the cost is going to be insane for customers, and if they know that, then we can do business, if not, I'm ok with not making the part... (my logging was a hobby that ended up paying all my bills lol, was a machinist for 25 years)
Yup. Been looking for a gear for a case tractor for months and the machine shops all tell us it will be too costly. Even if it cost $1500 or more for the small gear it would be worth it to get it back up and going. Never assume that it is too costly.
@@HOWEES it’s a 20 tooth gear that to all of my searching has resulted in it not being available. We tig welded the tooth back and ground it down but I’m not sure if it will hold up or not.
@@matthewsones5287 If it fails will it kill other parts by it's death? If it's not too hard to change & won't likely kill other parts probably worth trying. Helical teeth? splines on hub? diameter? width? picture?
You clarified for sure, but in my comment I believe I was saying barring all the information you just listed, it sounded like gouging. The lack of context in the other video made it seem like you were saying "they need it and can afford it, charge them as much as possible"
@@dr7media210 I guess it is just taking advantage of someone's specific situation then? Feels like you are splitting hairs. If I ran an auto parts store and spent 30 minutes getting to know a customer, got an idea of their income, an idea of how important the part I was selling was to them, how hard it has been for them to find, and only after all that gave them a price, I think it is pretty much ethically the same as price gouging. I know now this is fundamentally different than what is described in the video because he clarified he meant that the price came from the information he gleaned about the needs of the task rather than information about the person's financial situation. Throwing what may be an outrageous bid out there because that's what is worth for you to make it rather than what you know the customer is willing to pay is ethical. The reverse is unethical, though I guess is technically good business. The thought that anyone would defend such a practice just rankles is all.
@@SleepFaster18 - "What it's worth for me to make it" is very nebulous. If you and I each ran a Lawn Care service, my goal is to make 200k a year, your goal is 100k - and i charged more - am I unethical? What if my goal is 500k? Is THAT unethical?
We got taken over recently. The new beancounters decided that to save some money, anything that I requisitioned would be redirected to Cicero. Result, I was lucky to get anything in less than a week. Some urgent stuff was taking weeks. I was making ridiculous stuff like screws as I could no longer get them in a suitable timeframe to fix a million dollar machine. I eventually persuaded them to let me get stuff next morning from McMaster again.
There is going to be a huge price difference between errr ok il have a go, you bring me the specs you buy the materials il make it to your spec (payment up front) and if it's no good it's on you, il call you when its ready... compared to sure il come out make the measurements generate the Gerber's, source the correct materials and it will be ready Tuesday 😂
So people didn't realize you were talking about different quality standards. I didn't either truckem take that money. If your the only person that can make it chargethem a million .
It's not quality standards either. It takes time to order the material, it takes time to make a drawing, it takes time to set up a machine, and mill vice jaws to hold the material. And THEN you can make one side of the part. Then you have to make more jaws for the second side of the part, and third, and 4th. Maybe you don't need jaws, but you're still going to be setting up tooling and locating the feature you want to cut. And then you have to clean up. So that one part has to pay for all of that. Not to mention, he's going to order a 12 foot bar of exotic material to use 6 inches. So that price per part is quite high. When someone comes in with a good print, using material that's on your rack, and wants 400 of them, then you set up each side once for the 400. So you spend a lot less time setting up, and a lot more time in production, which makes each part exponentially cheaper.
That's not how it works. Usually you put in a bid against other shops. They pick one based on price, or repeat business, or reputation. There's usually not a negotiation. A lot of times when there is, it's the customer saying, ok, but what about when I come back for 50, and then for 500? That you might negotiate.
I got a $100 haircut. I had a wedding, something happened, I needed a barber ASAP. So I took a long shot. I got an immediate response, a great job, and a standard bill. $30 for the cut on her day off. I tipped the other $70, because it would have cost me that much at my local place, who could not provide the service on my timeline. I also drove a couple counties over to get the job done. I knew the quality of the work, long before I considered asking. I will never go to anyone else, because of that day. She was ashamed to charge that much, but firgured it was worth $20 to go in and open the shop. Never sell yourself short if you can do the work, go do it, and charge what it is worth to you. That is how you get life long customers, and the best word of mouth advertising. I tell people "I know a guy, it will cost you" If they blink, I forget how to get ahold of the person. I have never had back feedback from either side of the equation. Typically someone cooks, whether at the shop, the house, or on site. There will be good work and good food. Damn good pay too.
A quote is simply an offer. I've gladly paid for quick or specialty service when my project was time sensitive. I did a job on the lathe to repair the "spools" on a hydraulic selector valve used on a backhoe, I spent an hour on the job and I charged $20. It saved my customer $700. I felt good helping the man out and I enjoyed the project. I wouldn't repeat it for $20, the first job I did for me, my satisfaction and pleasure. And I helped someone out.
I work in a specialized industry, and people (managers) frequently forget that there are very few choices for suppliers of ready-made equipment. Walmart doesn't stock this stuff. The cost & leadtimes are often large numbers. So it's pay someone to figure it out, or pay me to figure it out while all my other work piles up... We frequently pay someone else.
Worked on a Cincinnati vertical mill. Removed the gear tree out of right feed control, and turned the teeth off a couple of the gears. Bored out the replacement gears, interference fit. Pinned and welded. A roll around was next to the Cincinnati and feed was on, and the handle was hitting, and mill was rocking, side to side, I guess I got there in time. It didn't turn over.
Raise your prices to what’s solidly fair to you. You MAY lose some customers, but you won’t miss those. You may find that you start picking up some customers who appreciate that you take the time to do things right.
lot of folks see the machinery and think it takes no time or skill.... the machine does it!.....not a clue about setup and compensating for a worn machine.when they learn what the job entails and time required...they say thats too much $...I say go somewhere else if you want charity...
The only issue I had was with gauging the person's urgency. A price should be set based primarily on the information on your end. This is how long it'll take, this is the cost of the materials, this is what I value my time and skills, rush orders cost this at the moment, better precision is more expensive. All good info to vary price on. Changing the price after asking the customer "how important is this to you?"or even something like "how many working machines do you have while this one is down without this part" is not ethical.
@@SleepFaster18 good point, I actually need you to power wash my house. I expect you to use one of your vacation days show up and wash it. The job pays $100. I’ll see you next week OK. that’s actually not how it works dude. The business owner sets the price the customer decides to approve the work or decline it. if too many jobs get declined you need to assess your pricing strategy or go out of business.
Honest dollar for an honest days' work. Never underquote in any industry. I'm not talking about pushing prices up either. But if you cheapen your work, you cheapen any industry and the skills involved in that work. Freebies are different, but never charge less than what it's going to cost you plus the correct industry rate for your hours.
Forget industry rate, you're paying your crew. Prices are set around the time it takes your crew to make that part.aybe you charge more for the time because the people up the road pay shit. You will find people to pay your crew for precision performance the cheap shop can't handle.
Here is the damn deal, We live in a free market, There isnt such a thing as gouging a customer. If some dipshit accepts your offer when they could have gone somewhere else, that is on the customer. We as machinists offer our time effort and energies to solve problems for people, the field of machinists is getting smaller by the decade.
Price gouging happens at huge corporations because they refuse to take a loss they earned last quarter or year. A small shop gets by year to year, much like it's workers get by month to month........................
Reminds me of the parable of the ship mechanic.... it might of only taken me 5 min to tap on it with a hammer, but it took 56yrs to know where to tap. It'll still be $5k.🙂
Gears are one thing that would really benefit from standardisation. There is a rather limited availability of helical stock gears. Solution, bend over and pay a Howie etc to make custom gear, or work out what off the shelf gears could be adapted.
I made aircraft tooling for a bit. Sometimes they would nudge me and tell me I needed to up my price. Some customers pockets are deeper than you can comprehend.
Yeah, people have no idea what it takes to make a prototype, and no idea why making a million of something is cheaper than making 3. Per part of course.
Two bills I sent out for a couple of small jobs were never paid. Those minor loses were great investments. Those a$$h0les look away when I see them. I couldn’t be happier.
