Read Circe by Madeline Miller. It’s beautiful. Also, read A Thousand Ships and The Silence of the Girls. All these stories, (excluding Circe) are retelling of the Trojan War from the perspective of women. I can’t recommend them highly enough
The whole book is about Patroclus admiring his Achilles. But I fell in love with Patroclus more. What a beautifully written book. Such talent is so admirable and is a blessing to this world. I'm excited to read Circe next. 💗
Yes!! I find myself repeating it in my mind in my day to day. Patroclus steps into my awareness and says “this, and this and this!” about the beauty before me, as was his complete awe of the beauty of Achilles. And then I’m in tears of grief and gratitude and awe. This story…
I DIED!!! So glad I found this talk because she's answered both of my questions I asked on Goodreads: why she decided to make Patroclus and Achilles the same age as equals and if she's ever experienced grief over fictional characters. Both answers blew me away! I did not expect the ease with which she found references that A & P were not in a pedorastic relationship! And also I really didn't expect she'd had such a huge emotional involvement herself (comes as no surprise when you consider the TEN years invested in the novel and her general love of classics since 5), causing her to grieve their deaths! I grieved them too and for a few days I was just depressed and couldn't move on!! So grateful for this book and these talks!
One of the greatest romance merged with classics novel I've read! I absolutely adored every chapter and every event in this novel was just as momentous as the previous and I have a few chapters left to finish but I know the ending and I just know I'll burst into tears. The Song of Achilles is a novel that stays with the origins of Homer's Iliad but twists it with Patroclus' and Achilles' relationship so nicely and it's just such a lovely novel!
As a lover of Ulysses by James Joyce, my favorite book, I did not think I would ever read something as compelling: The Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller is such a book. I walked around for days struck by its beauty. Sentences stopped me and I cried before reading the next paragraph. So many centuries critics have missed the central story of the Iliad: Achilles loved Patroclus. Our blindness is spectacular. Thank you Madeline for your courage and poetry to tell this story.
i find it hard to read and understand greek mythology. but i am beyond grateful to have read song of achilles. it left a hole inside my heart, it was so beautifully written. i understood it easily and followed through the story even though i have very limited knowledge of the mythology. i finished the book yesterday, and i think i will still be thinking of it forever. there is much more i want to say to this book, i just can’t seem to put it into words. it is one of the best books i’ve ever read. the feeling it left me, still remains. you are a wonder miss madeline miller. i am now reading circe! ❤️
I love the song of Achilles. From the way it was told to the creative story gap, smoothen out until the last chapter. The story and sadness echoes at the back of my head even as i went through two books after it. The ‘what ifs’ made me research a few bits about illiad and its characters. I knew i had to read Circe. Thank you MM. yours are magic.
Late to the party , I just finished the book yesterday . I cannot believe how much I got attached to the characters , the writing is so good . Only the best books leave you this bittersweet feeling, It’s weird how much words can affect our lives ! I’m so grateful to this amazing author ! 🧡
Me too. I finished it three days ago and it was one of the most beautiful experiences ever. The Story of Achilles is life changing and my heart still aches thinking about them. "Green eyes smiling into mine", physical pain.
Just a spanish comment passing by. Se ha vuelto mi libro favorito, me alegra no haber recordado mucho de la iliada porque asi me impacto y dolió aun mas la muerte de ambos, llore desde su muerte hasta la ultima pagina del libro e incluso media hora despues volví a llorar, lo ame.
Yo agradezco leer TSOA antes que la Iliada, el impacto fue mayor puesto que no tenía idea alguna de la historia. Definitivamente el libro es una joya✨, sin duda alguna mi favorito 🤧💖
I finished the book yesterday, and when this queen read that beautiful passage I started crying all over again and now I can barely see through the tears 🙃 This book both enriched and destroyed me!
I wish there was a audio book read by her. I am reading the book right now and I will not let that be taken from me by an audio book. but I looked for some for the future and only found 2 versions, both read rather emotionless. Her reading in this speech is just amazing! She wrote it so she knows how he feels and how his feelings should be read and I wish I could listen to the whole book read out by her 💛
the way she herself also grieved after finishing the book… it’s so amazing.. but traumatizing too 👍 im just sad i might never love or be loved like patroclus and achilles :(
Even months after finishing this masterpiece, I find myself on the verge of tears watching this, its such a moving, thoughtful and thought provoking novel and Madeline Miller has given me the gift of grief and love enough 💕
My daughter bought me Circe and The Song of Achilles, I read Circe first, put off TSOA, but when I started it I couldn’t put it down, I didn’t want it to end, kept hoping for a different ending! I have passed it on to a friend, and I miss it so much!
Finalmente qualcuno che riconosce il rapporto omosessuale tra Achille e Patroclo. Dopo quello scempio che hanno compiuto in 'Troy' (sarebbero cugini?) qualcuno che sa descrivere, scrivere bene su questa bellissima storia, che vale la pena di essere affrontata ed ammirata. Bravissima, Madeline! :D
Thanks for this interesting talk. Small point at 3.53 Madeline Miller says that Patroclus is 'always' described as 'gentle' in the Iliad. Not quite. In Book 16 he goes on a rampage on the battlefield during which, on my tally, he kills at least 54 Trojans. These include Thestor, whom Patroclus spears through the jaw to hook him out of his chariot like catching a fish, and Sarpedon, whom Patroclus spears through the chest and accidentally pulls Sarpedon's lungs out of his body when Patroclus pulls out his spear. Patroclus also tries to storm the walls of Troy itself, when as the Trojan leader Hector says 'I suppose you thought you would destroy my city and enslave the women of Troy and take them in your ships.' None of that is kind or gentle. But to an Ancient Greek there was nothing incompatible with being kind to his own people, including even, up to a point, his family's slaves, yet ferocious and merciless to his enemies. On the matter of homosexuality, in the literature of later centuries, some forms of (mostly male) homosexual love seem to have been celebrated quite openly in places like Athens and Thebes. However, Homer's poems, probably the oldest surviving Greek literature, I do not think mention homosexuality at all. We simply don't know what the attitude to it was then. So far as their sexuality is mentioned, Achilles and Patroclus are both portrayed as attracted to women, probabky, at least under the circumstances of wartime, more sexually than romantically. In Iliad Book 9, Achilles and Patroclus, while sharing a large hut, are each have a captured female slave sleep beside them at night. One of Achilles' other pretty slave girls is temporarily promoted to spend the night with him when Agamemnon takes his favourite Briseis away. Also in Book 9, when Agamemnon promises a fantastic list of rewards if Achilles returns to battle, these include, if they capture Troy, twenty Trojan women 'the most beautiful you can find'. This suggests that Agamemnon sees Achilles as heterosexual, or he might have offered handsome male Trojan youths rather than attractive captured women. No one considers the women's wishes in any of this, of course, but that is a different point. This does not preclude the possibility that Achilles and Patroclus were bisexual. Indeed, in later times, in Athens, when homosexual male affairs were, in some forms, widely accepted, a man was still expected to marry a woman and sire children with her to carry on the family blood line. At least by that date, people were speculating as to whether Achilles and Patroclus in the Iliad were lovers. However, it does not necessarily mean anything to ask 'What was the real relationship between them' as they are legendary figures like Robin Hood or King Arthur. We don't know for certain if they ever existed. If they did, they may not have been like the legends about them that survived to be recorded in later times.
It's such an overhyped book. The writing was okayish but that's it. The one dimensional characters, their flat personalities, and no real reason to act the way they do (-why exactly is Achilles so much in love with Petroclus? What other than physical beauty does P see in A since the man is totally one dimensional?). It was massive disappointment after all the hype and marketing. 🤦🤦
I never quite get why ppl say a book or other media is hyped or not 😅 but I can try to answers ur questions! 1. One dimensional characters: I suppose it’s easier for ppl to have an easier time relating to a character who does not change too much. Another thing might be that bc they’re one dimensional, it’s sort of like one character represents 1 thing/idea/emotion, so it’s also easier to relate to everyone! 2. Flat personalities: I AGREE 👏 but if here it’s kind of the same as the previous point 3. Reasons to act: well, this goes into philosophy and stuff: do we always need a reason?? Do we need a reason to hate a rock, or love a pebble? 4. Why is Achilles in love with Patroclus? Same as last point, does there need to be a specific reason? Also, it’s from Pat’s POV, so we can’t really know what any other characters think. My best guess is bc P was the one who stood out, basically “the different/unique/quirky kid” trope 5. What does P see in A aside from physical beauty? This can be easily answered with the first excerpt the author (yes I forgot her name😅) reads. Essentially, Patroclus comes to love Achilles because A doesn’t rlly care abt the bad or negative aspects that P sees in himself (and that his father would belittle him for). Patroclus is a kid who had it tough and then A comes and basically spend most, if not all, of their time together. So it’s not surprising they would be BFFs and, later on, lovers. TL;DR: we all have different tastes. Perhaps this book was just not ur cup of tea 🤷
Lover of the Iliad and all other ancient literature but this book was disappointing. Mostly factually correct but the character of Patroclus was completely altered, and its not as lyrical as people make out. Death of Hector was greatly glossed over in not much detail. Some good bits, mostly before the war at Troy begins but during Achilles and Patroclus' childhood
Okayy, Well, as a lover of this book and story as a whole, I have to respectfully disagree. In the Pan-Hellenic culture, Patroclus does kill Sarpedon and since your reference comes directly from The Iliad (it can't be from The Song Of Achilles because Zeus is never directly introduced into the story), I'm going to assume that you would also agree with the fact Patroclus is a very mysterious character in The Iliad, with only brief descriptions such as the ones you used ("strong and gentle"). I think Madeline Miller did a perfect job portraying both his strength (when he kills the boy that leads to his exile and before he dies, he is seen actively killing Trojans with spears) and his gentleness, which can be seen when he "nudges" Achilles when it came to claiming women he knew would otherwise have been mistreated...Also, look at his relationship with Briseis and you will clearly see his gentleness. So, in her defence, she was only giving the reader an adaption of what is widely believed to have happened, as opposed to creating a whole new story from scratch. Don't you dare come for Patroclus or Madeline ever again xoxo
