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Make Manganese Dioxide Electrodes (for chlorate or HHO cells) 

NurdRage
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How to make Manganese Dioxide Electrodes that can be used for chlorate cells or HHO cells and a few other electrochemical processes requiring inert anodes in oxidizing solutions.
Make the electrode is fairly simple. First a titanium strip is sanded to give a clean surface and then etched with hydrochloric acid to activate it. Cobalt nitrate solution is applied in a thin layer and then heated to 300 Celsius to decompose (pyrolyze) the cobalt nitrate into cobalt oxide. the loosely adhering cobalt oxide is washed off and then new layers of cobalt oxide are applied. Usually between 3 to 10 layers.
Then manganese nitrate is applied and the process repeated to make manganese dioxide. Another 10 to 50 layers may be applied.
Optionally, a further layer of manganese nitrate by electrolysis may be applied by using the electrode as an anode in a solution of 90 grams manganese sulfate, 500mL water and 12mL concentrated sulfuric acid. Copper or titanium is used as the cathode and a current density of about 10ma per square centimeter is used. A short run time of a few minutes or so puts a thin layer of manganese dioxide on the surface that seems to reduce permanganate production, but does not eliminate it.
In the future i'll be working on a lead dioxide electrode.

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4 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 224   
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@coldsn In theory anything could work. but titanium is good because even if you missed a spot, get a scratch, or if there is some random flaking due to flexing or thermal expansion/contraction, the titanium won't corrode when it comes in contact with solution, it just passivates. A more reactive metal like copper or steel would start corroding, the corrosion then spreads underneath the layers and eventually the whole thing is destroyed. Tantalum and niobium work too, but titanium is easy to get
@yoshiwinsagain
@yoshiwinsagain 13 лет назад
this guy is a genius the one with steel wool and the potassium chlorate was epic!
@runkert
@runkert 14 лет назад
i love these videos, i love the feeling of actually understanding most of it. the best part is not understanding all of it. thanks for another brilliant vid guys!
@tjpld
@tjpld 12 лет назад
Haven't heard of anyone making a good PbO2 Anodes but still it is seen as the Holy Grail of Anodes for Perchlorate Cells since you can oxidize from KCL directly to KClO4.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@mV33rs Stainless steel (as it's called) only means stainless or "rust-free" under regular environmental conditions, rain, air, snow, salt, etc. But under the extremely harsh conditions of an eletrolytic cell (especially chlorate) it's destroyed rather quickly. Very few metals like platinum and titanium can take those kinds of conditions.
@techhax0rz
@techhax0rz 14 лет назад
THANK YOU, FINALLY A VIDEO THAT EXPLAINS WHAT I WANTED!~!!!
@Ar0999
@Ar0999 14 лет назад
Wow yours is the 1st video ive seen where all the captions represent what you are saying.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@TheMnO2 Very interesting! i'm intrigued by your use of vanadium. Thanks for sharing. you really should make a video on your process!
@deilax
@deilax 14 лет назад
I have to agree it does sound softer.
@iceman8o8o
@iceman8o8o 13 лет назад
I have no idea what he is talking about but it is still fun to watch
@getzkazer
@getzkazer 14 лет назад
Thanks NurdRage! I've made some Lead(II)-oxide electrodes out of titanium and lead(II)-nitrate solution. They're excellent for making chlorates, especially with some Potassium fluoride to form a protective-layer. Please make more videos like this cause they are really useful and worth to reproduce! Greetz
@andrianwijayono6658
@andrianwijayono6658 Год назад
wow.. it would be great if you upload it on you tube.. do you have any documentation about it?
@0neinch
@0neinch 14 лет назад
I didn't think that I was ever, EVER, going to see this video
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@capnquack the oxides are far too brittle to be hammered. It might work with a malleable metal like copper, but hammering oxides is like hammering rock, it just breaks it.
@ldanielrosa
@ldanielrosa 13 лет назад
Excellent vid, NR- I've watched it more times than most of the others. I look forward to seeing a follow up including but not limited to PbO2, other surface primers than cobalt. Mention was made of ruthenium, and of vanadium. I hope there is also something on bromate and iodate in an upcoming video.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@Gmc42082 I intend to eventually make MMO electrodes too. but yeah, this is not better than a commercial product. I just wanted to show a homemade way of creating a semi-viable electrode.
@mackinnon182
@mackinnon182 14 лет назад
you've made a lot of videos latly. well played, good quality as well this could be really useful thanks
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@AngryBF2Nerd no, it just has more to flake when you have 20 layers. the rate of flaking is still the same.
@lamamriaissa1165
@lamamriaissa1165 4 года назад
THUNKYOU VERY MUTCH YOUR SHOWS YOUR SUBJECTS ARE VREY INTRESTING
@polarkangaroo
@polarkangaroo 14 лет назад
Since you don't have a post on PbO2 anodes, i'll have to comment here- I thought of an idea for PbO2 anodes... It DOES have a couple of flaws, though, but seems simple enough otherwise: on a porous substrate, allow it to soak up a solution of Lead IV acetate. I'm not sure what the thermal decomposition product of it is- probably reduction of lead. But it is powdered PbO2- Just add water (and hope thermal expansion does not crack the ceramic). The other problem this is resistance. love your vids.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@mV33rs Titanium is best due to it's chemical inertness and mechanical strength. Other materials would dissolve if even a tiny bit of manganese dioxide was scratched off.
@lizard5678
@lizard5678 14 лет назад
awesome video.. as far as flaking goes, you either need a thin coating, nanocoating, that won't flake, or you need something that deposits as a loose crystalline needle structure, that can take some flexing, because it has a lot of voidspace, and won't crack.. znpo4 paint pretreatment baths that use titanium seeding, and grow massive crystals of znpo4 whose solubility at high temp is massively dependent on a 0.1 increase in pH somewhere between 3-4, is an example.. thick and adheres well
@nattsurfaren
@nattsurfaren 14 лет назад
This is so extremely cool and informative. I really like your videos nurdrage. About the lead. When I was younger I tried to make lead soldiers instead of using tin. When melting lead you get unhealthy fumes. So when I was about to get to sleep I started to shiver like craz and my body shi
@JavDSilva
@JavDSilva 13 лет назад
Nurd, i got lead sludges from my dad like 500grams , my plan is to melt it in a small furnace i have and cast em into round bars or flat bars (or maybe hammer the round bars to make ethem plat in the "inside of the cell part" and round in the electric contact part, will make everything outside, backyard. then in diluted sulfuric acid going to aply electricity to form on both electrodes a lead dioxide surface. then share results maybe a video or photos. also, your voice is awesome.
@nic0245
@nic0245 12 лет назад
titanium can be found on common aluminium cans found anywhere. the "ring pull" is titanium.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@KarriKoivusalo Those are usually on aluminum, unfortunately they would be destroyed pretty quick.
@MisterTHX1138
@MisterTHX1138 14 лет назад
you mentioned applying manganese dioxide electrolytically to a copper electrode. Is the initial cobalt layer required with copper?
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@Neilidity some oxides will work, some won't, i don't think the ones you listed will work. But Ru, Ir and Pb will
@sciencoking
@sciencoking 14 лет назад
the flaking problem might be caused by the cobalt oxide forming unevenly on the titanium. As you said, some of it flakes off as you wash it. When it flakes off, it may create some holes in the layer. Then the manganese oxide can´t stick to the plate very well, either.... So you might want to try to coat the titanium with the cobalt oxide by electroplating, too (if this is possible in any way). just my idea.
@ThePeterDislikeShow
@ThePeterDislikeShow 3 года назад
Can you get rid of the oxides on the titanium by running it as a cathode?
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@Serostern Doesn't matter if you have billions, gold electrodes still won't work. You'll need a platinum electrode.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@NOBOX7 Interesting! thanks for your observations, i'll ponder it a little more.
@Azeralas
@Azeralas 14 лет назад
I can't get enough! Love these vids
@colin351
@colin351 4 года назад
Hey Nurd, did you ever experiment with the lead dioxide electrode concept? I'm currently working on one myself and would look forward to you possibly covering the subject in a future video.
@chemistryofquestionablequa6252
@chemistryofquestionablequa6252 2 года назад
Check out the Mysteriusbhoice channel, he's pretty much perfected the PbO2 electrode plating process and he's a great guy and really helpful.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@aCagedApe Yes you can, i haven't tried it yet, perhaps in future, I don't know when i'll have time though.
@NOBOX7
@NOBOX7 14 лет назад
@NurdRage i have tried using nick welding rods as electrode and was able to get a blake oxide build up that conducts but not very well ,, i noticed a 20 amp drop in current on a 70 amp cell, this was done with sulfuric acid i think as the eleite ill have to chek my notes, it may help ur research
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@The0Burger0King that substance itself would probably be destroyed under oxidizing conditions. Lead dioxide would work, but then i would use a pure lead dioxide electrode instead :)
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@dragonridley yeah, my bad. Nonetheless, price doesn't change the fact that Ir works.
@SatansBaby1
@SatansBaby1 14 лет назад
You r THE BEST!!!! Sorry for the stupid comment :)
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@coldsn its a great idea and worth testing. I don't have the equipment to perform such tasks but if you could let me know your results. Eventually in the future i might get/build something that can do those things. its certainly an interesting idea.
@NOBOX7
@NOBOX7 13 лет назад
i wonder if rapping the anode in string would give the dope extra integrady ? i am going to try rapping a carbon anode in cloth very tightly but using a thin layer, i think that wen sum materials absorb the elite they are "exploded " from the inside by the evolusion of gases?
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@soyunclonyque absolutely, i'm researching what additives would be best, i'm not sure chelating is the way to go but i'm sure i do need to add something more to control the deposit and how it forms.
@wafflethug
@wafflethug 14 лет назад
I think you should try putting a knurl on the plate, The crushing of the material will create plenty of cracks and crevices for your plating to stick to. The surface of the titanium looks too shiny for what you're doing.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@dragonridley Doesn't change the fact that it works.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@j822bosh its a good idea, i haven't tried it yet, but certainly worth looking into.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@panzuman yes
@coldsn
@coldsn 14 лет назад
fair point, I forgot that aluminum hydroxide forms when aluminum is oxidized in a solution, not aluminum oxide.
@Khalastas
@Khalastas 14 лет назад
Your voice sounds softer today.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@TheMnO2 interesting, i'm pleased it's working for you.
@Bu22saw83
@Bu22saw83 14 лет назад
Very cool, I teach chemistry at a high school in Texas and we just did your creation of Manganse Sulfate in lab using the batteries, etc. I wonder if to avoid the flaking problem you need to prime the titanium better first, almost how paint has a primer on a wall, you might need to use another salt or something to give it the oppurtunity to bind at the molecular level. Just a thought!
@nattsurfaren
@nattsurfaren 14 лет назад
I guess you would be safe if you use gloves and ventilation but I don't know if the gloves needs to be really thick but to be safe I think so. No touching of the lead salts in any circumstance I would think.
@Ulfhednar-o9t
@Ulfhednar-o9t 14 лет назад
Hello Nurdrage I have found that it is easier to make perchlorates by simple oxidizing chlorates with strong oxidizers, like ammonium dichromate and making a heat decomposition. Remaining unreacted chlorate can be removed by another heat decomposition using sodium bisulfite. I mention this so there is no need to mess around with the toxic lead and lead dioxide, for people wich would need these electrodes for the prodcution of chlorates and perchlorates.
@max.zuidlaren
@max.zuidlaren 11 лет назад
probably, yeah, he uses it for its mechanical strength, not for its chemistry. (Plz correct me if i'm wrong)
@Neilidity
@Neilidity 14 лет назад
Thanks muchly for this, very interesting. I wonder, do you think other oxides like those of say V, Cr, Fe, or Ni would also be worth a shot for a coating? I also am wondering if including some kind of silicate (say, sodium silicate) in the metal nitrate solution may lead to co-deposition of SiO2 leading to a mechanically tougher coating without adversely affecting its redox properties? Lead sounds like a good idea to me - good luck with that.
@paulwheat1623
@paulwheat1623 14 лет назад
I enjoy your vids!!!
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@Ar0999 That's because i make them myself by hand.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@nattsurfaren yeah, thus why i need to determine a safe way of doing this. Preferably one where i don't get poisoned.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@panzuman 4 layers
@vevenaneathna
@vevenaneathna 14 лет назад
nurd rage ftw good video man
@omsingharjit
@omsingharjit 3 года назад
4:40 same question can cobalt be replaced with other cheap chemical ?
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@coldsn aluminum corrodes too
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@dragonridley Since when was the issue about price? I thought the issue was if the oxides you mentioned worked (V, Cr, Fe, Ni).
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@TheMnO2 interesting, i'll keep it in mind.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@blakewade01 There are better materials than cobalt oxide, but cobalt is the easiest one to get. Sold at pottery supply stores by the pound.
@myth-termoth1621
@myth-termoth1621 2 года назад
Isnt it much easier to use a lead dioxide anode ? A lump of lead oxidised in the same way as lead acid electrodes were first made ? I cant imagine lead dioxide being disintegrated by much.
@j822bosh
@j822bosh 14 лет назад
Is it possible to apply black nickel oxide in between cobalt oxide layers? Trivalent nickel oxide is conductive and nickle oxides are available from pottery suppliers. The coating of inert electrodes is strikingly simular to the semiconductor research. Consider doping materials for your cobalt oxide interface to modify its structure.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@freakin1random yeah, i'm thinking adhesion is an issue, i'm still working on the problem.
@JustToaster
@JustToaster 14 лет назад
Nice video, keep it up!
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@Lodoss1986 I already showed in a previous video that uncoated titanium cannot be used due to passivation
@endimion17
@endimion17 13 лет назад
Have you tried to use bare titanium for electrolysis of brine? As I've read, titanium anodes were used in chloralkali process, but I'm not sure were they bare or had a coating. You can actually buy titanium mmo anodes, where mmo is reffered to ruthenium and titanium oxides.
@VerbenaIDK
@VerbenaIDK Год назад
This is very useful, thank you! Also, with the electrolytic manganese dioxide flaking, maybe you could mix some other metal to form oxides that adhere better to the substrate and the MnO2 itself? maybe tin could work?
@Exotic_Chem_Lab
@Exotic_Chem_Lab 8 месяцев назад
Yes antimony or cerium Doped Tin dioxide SnO2
@DjKillerboss
@DjKillerboss 12 лет назад
Hey, i found something out, if u hold the conzentration of H2SO4 under about 5g/L u get better Electrodes. nutralize the building H2SO4 with MnO2--> better electroplating on the substrate u want to plate..
@nattsurfaren
@nattsurfaren 14 лет назад
Sorry I pressed submit before I was finished. Ok I shivered like crazy and I freezed. I had to phone to a hospital to contact the poisoning information experts. They said if it got worse I had to visit the hospital. Thankfully this stopped after a while but I got really scared.
@Jehosafath
@Jehosafath 14 лет назад
Hi nurdrage. Good video I want to ask you something, Where can I buy titanium? what kind of stores can I find it? sir. I hope your soon answer.
@hydrox24
@hydrox24 14 лет назад
Awesome! but the violet colour turns up blue on the camera
@omsingharjit
@omsingharjit 3 года назад
Can i replace cobalt nitrate with Manganese Nitrate ?
@Sheynan55
@Sheynan55 14 лет назад
thx! great video!
@geeljireoomaar6140
@geeljireoomaar6140 Год назад
Thanks Nurd. What kind of electrode are you making? Anode or Cathode
@Youcantbeseriousa123
@Youcantbeseriousa123 14 лет назад
You rock!
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@sciencoking If you can find a way to electroplate cobalt oxide (using home-lab setup) let me know. :)
@coldsn
@coldsn 14 лет назад
What about aluminum? Ideally, HCl should eat right through the passivated layer to activate it, though I suppose with passivation time in the range of tens of milliseconds, it would be difficult to process quickly enough... (what about gradually replacing HCl with the plating solution?)
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@Serostern absolutely not
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@scbaldwin13 I think i'll let my videos speak for my education and my ability, i think that's far more telling then what piece of paper i have hanging on my wall ;)
@DembaiVT
@DembaiVT 14 лет назад
Interesting. Have you tried hammering to make the flakes stick better? I know it's weird, but when my old chem teacher electroplated his keys for us, he showed us how he keeps it from flaking by hitting it with a hammer (just the top flat part of the key, obviously). It was with copper, which I know, obviously, has the ability to be flattened, and I don't know the properties of what you were using, but maybe that might help?
@SemesaSnG
@SemesaSnG 11 лет назад
Is this applicable to tungsten based compounds? I have a few kg's of fairly fine pure tungsten powder, Setting it alight gives me WO3(tested) then treatment with ammonia solution should give me ammonia paratungstate(untested) which(according to wikipedia) decomposes at 600*C to WO3. I'm unsure as to whether this will give a suitable surface covering of WO3 for use as an electrode though, any input would be appreciated!
@The0Burger0King
@The0Burger0King 14 лет назад
Maybe you can coat the electrode in some kind of conductive substance that will keep if from flaking. (If that's possible)
@JaycubL
@JaycubL 14 лет назад
@miesrah12 If you mean actual poop, you can make methane and nitate salts from it.
@DjKillerboss
@DjKillerboss 12 лет назад
@Narutopuneet you can coat PbO2 directly or MnO2 directly.. much more possible.. why don't u make it flat with a press or a hammer? than u can coat it with cobalt nitrate..
@polarkangaroo
@polarkangaroo 14 лет назад
I know you can't try everything that readers suggest. I'm wondering, though, if there may be a better electrolytic deposition of MnO2 by cathodic reduction of permanganate. The only problem on a Ti substrate would be the interface. I have toyed around with cathodic deposition of Fe3O4, from soluble iron III (sulfate) & Iron VI. Any suitable interface may work. This might improve the quality of the coating (speculating) because there may be less TiO2, which may improve adhesion properties.
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@miesrah12 because platinum extremely chemically resistant, safe to use, electrically conductive, doesn't passivate as badly as titanium and decays very slowly,
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@Shakeandbake4321 lead decays much faster
@onadejibabatunde8983
@onadejibabatunde8983 Год назад
Please can stainless steel be coated in the same manner????
@LancerFIN
@LancerFIN 14 лет назад
No. That's his real voice or atleast that's what he has said few times in earlier videos
@asmathyder
@asmathyder 14 лет назад
nice video!! can i use silver for this purpose?? plz tell me
@NurdRage
@NurdRage 14 лет назад
@odysseus9672 i tried it with ultra-pure lab grade stuff, same problem.
@GMCLabs
@GMCLabs 14 лет назад
mmo coated Ti mesh works better and is cheap and durable,i found one for 20 bucks on ebay and it was huge ! 6.5"x30"
@JavDSilva
@JavDSilva 14 лет назад
what about melting and molding a bar of lead, then axidize it to superficial lead dioxide , just sugesting
@micuenta97
@micuenta97 11 лет назад
where is the potassium chlorate?
@wb5rue
@wb5rue 14 лет назад
Have you thought of Bismuth instead of lead for your electrode?
@vivekkumarsingh4226
@vivekkumarsingh4226 9 лет назад
will you please make a video on how to make lead dioxide electrode. I am trying to make it but I always fail I don't know why .
@vivekkumarsingh4226
@vivekkumarsingh4226 7 лет назад
Higor Guedes for making lead dioxide electrode u need lead nitrate.. Copper nitrate... Nitric acid and a surfactant like cetyl trimethyl ammonium bromide
@vivekkumarsingh4226
@vivekkumarsingh4226 7 лет назад
Higor Guedes or u can rotate a graphite rod dipped in the solution containing lead and copper nitrate along with heating the solution up to 50-60C
@vivekkumarsingh4226
@vivekkumarsingh4226 7 лет назад
Making Graphite as anode and copper as cathode
@vivekkumarsingh4226
@vivekkumarsingh4226 7 лет назад
Higor Guedes its the same thing.... Basically u need a soluble copper and lead salts other than halides
@vivekkumarsingh4226
@vivekkumarsingh4226 7 лет назад
Higor Guedes no u wont get lead metal because of the presence of copper acetate. Copper will prevent deposition of lead at cathod by itself getting reduced
@jamesdienow
@jamesdienow 14 лет назад
i dont understand any of this but chemistrry owns
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