Potassium Chlorate Synthesis Two Ways 

It did feel like a comically large cathode lol, actually surprised everything turned out as well as it did all things considered. As you said the chlorate is pretty stable so once its produced it kinda just hangs around (unless you further oxidize it to perchlorate), and so even with a stupidly low efficiency you should eventually get a good amount. I'm guessing the mechanism of passive pH control is that the hydroxide is removed as an insoluble precipitate? Thats clever, I'd have never thought of that. One question I have since you clearly seem to have more experience with electrolysis: I was considering using dithionite or something similar to reduce the chromate when this was finished so this would all be less toxic to handle. Now I know that would reduce hypochlorite as well, and I know it likely couldn't reduce perchlorate, but with chlorate somewhere in the middle in terms of oxidizing potential do you think it would also be destroyed by this process?

@@integral_chemistry I honestly have no idea, I’ve never used chromium compounds in my electrolysis cells because I’ve got a toddler running around and I don’t want any trace contamination in the house that he might come in contact with. It’s the same reason I haven’t made PbO2 electrodes yet until I can get a shed or something for a proper lab space. The way the passive ph control works is the hydroxide is deposited on the cathode in basically the same way it would be with chromium hydroxide but it’s considerably thicker and quite visible, the chloride or sulfate ions then help balance the ph. At least that’s how I interpreted it, I first came across it in videos by the mysteriusbhoice channel. If I were dealing with a cell liquor with dichromate in it I’d probably just recycle it into the next run, but you should be able to crystallize your chlorate out (you’d use something like persulfate if you were making perchlorates with a lead dioxide electrode) then any way you can reduce the dichromate to the hydroxide or any lower oxidation state would likely precipitate out as well as being considerably less toxic. Though like I said, I’d probably just put it aside and use it as the base solution for my next run with more NaCl added.

​@@integral_chemistry Dithionite redox potential at pH=7 is -0.66 V, chlorate potential at pH=6.8 is 0.81 V. By the book dithionite could reduce chlorate too, but both processes have many intermediates and are strongly dependent on pH. I'd say adding dithionite drop by drop while mixing could theoretically reduce hypochlorite first without affecting chlorate yield much but it would still leave a mixture of different chlorine/sulfur compounds.

Thank you! I'm glad you think so. What I really need is to figure out how to do time lapse, because some of the most satisfying Crystallizations take hours. Even this short one ended up being a 10GB file

It always shocks me how beautiful it is. Yet to find a Recrystallization I like more (urea looks cool, but the resulting crystals are a buzzkill to dry completely)

@@integral_chemistry did you film that through a polarizing filter or do the crystals have those colors with the naked eye?

I just got back into teaching and I think this is going to be my go-to recrystallization demo (it used to be potassium nitrate)

@@integral_chemistry Potassium nitrate crystals are AWESOME. I super-saturate KNO3 on the hot plate, then transfer it to a mason jar and put it under a mild vacuum to cool. The resulting crystal growth is incredible. There are few crystals as beautiful and satisfying to grow than KNO3.

Probably 90% of the chemicals I use are either bought at the hardware store, Walmart or made from stuff I bought there. The other 10% were bought online.

It is crazy how the vast majority of everything I use comes from regular stores. I've gotta go to walmart today, and I have a separate shopping list for "science stuff" (methanol, isopropyl, lead/tin sinkers, sulfuric acid/hydroxide drain cleaner, etc.)

I do think it's funny that alkaline earth chlorates and perchlorate would be legal, as anyone determined to do anything nefarious wouldn't be discouraged by the extremely easy conversion to the alkali salt.. I wish perchlorate was easier to get, and I do love your idea using the potassium carbonate (no idea why I didn't do it that way). Your method does give me an idea though! I've been trying to work out how to get pure sodium chlorate (without chloride contamination) as a starting point for perchlorate. That said I'd think barium chloride and sodium carbonate could be a good path forward

Much like how locks only keep our honest people, EU rules only keep out those with 0 chemistry knowledge. What's even more odd, at least in my country not even all alkali salts are covered. Only sodium and potassium salts of chlorate and perchlorate are banned by name. Lithium perchlorate for example is still freely purchasable, AFAIK.

​@@TunkkisSame here in the EU. 😏

​@@integral_chemistry I guess you meant barium chlorate, didn't you? Using barium chloride will end up in sodium chloride - makes no sense when your target product is chlorate.

@@experimental_chemistry Oh yeah I meant adding barium chloride to precipitate barium chlorate, then isolation and addition of sodium carbonate to precipitate the barium carbonate and isolate the resulting sodium chlorate

It really is pretty! And I do plan on doing a vid on perchlorate, but my issue is that you need chlorate as a starting material. Potassium chlorate/perchlorate is kinda too insoluble for a good yield (so far) and sodium chlorate is basically impossible to separate from sodium chloride. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually though!

@@integral_chemistryLooking forward too it as an amateur chemist your videos are very helpful!

Wow yeah weird coincidence. Definitely recommend the pool shock method unless you already own a bunch of electrolysis equipment

Thanks man! And honestly I'd go with the calcium hypochlorite, it's far more stable and a lot less scary, cheaper, and easier to work with than the sodium version.

@@integral_chemistry Very nice reasonable answer! That's what I also thought about but wasn't very sure😆. Thanks again for your time Really appreciate it :D

Me thinks your a very sick person ! Want to be friends! ?

I believe I saw someone suggest magnesium chloride. Idea there is that magnesium hydroxide is insoluble and would settle out instead of allowing hydroxide concentration in solution to keep building up. I do fully intend to try it but so far I haven't gotten around to it. Calcium hydroxide could maybe work too, but its more soluble and it requires a higher pH to form in the first place.

Good question actually! The issue is that the potassium chlorate is so insoluble I worried it would precipitate on the electrodes or crystallize out and reduce efficiency

@@integral_chemistry If there is enough room in the bottom of the electrolysis cell ( under the electrodes ), wouldn’t any precipitate that forms on the electrodes, fall off and collect on the bottom of the electrolysis cell?

But so hygroscopic...

LMAO that's awesome! I'm thinking of something similar for my perchlorate cell (with the Periodic recovery of product). Issue is every anode I try using for perchlorate gets absolutely destroyed.. I should probably bite the bullet and make a MMO anode

@@integral_chemistryi just orderd an mmo on titanium mesh 20x 30cm was abut 150usd or so

still working on perchlorate, but once its finished that would be a cool idea!

@@integral_chemistry a video where you compare reaction on those saccharides

Honestly you can use most anything for the cathode, it's really the anode that needs to be made of something more chemically durable

@@integral_chemistry thank you

lol uhhhh haribo?

@@integral_chemistry You should send CoA request to Haribo...

LMAO it is obnoxious. Tbh it was smaller relative to the beaker and carbon rods in my mind's eye (I have terrible visual memory 😅)

@@integral_chemistry I'm just being sarcastic (Bostonian default)... was a perfect opportunity 🤣

yeaaah it was a bit huge, definitely not the most efficient setup possible

I've tried that method. It works, even with the 'bonfire ash grade' potassium carbonate I used. Carbon dioxide bubbles out of solution as the chlorine reacts with the carbonate, forming potassium hypochlorite. You then heat the potassium hypochlorite solution to 70 degrees C for a few hours to encourage disproportionation to chlorate and chloride. Still, the electrolytic route is more efficient.

it really is the most beautiful crystal @@garycard1456

Perchlorates are also unstable, I wouldn't recommend "playing" with any oxidizer. You can use basically anything for a cathode as it won't degrade, and while yes lead dioxide is the holy grail of anodes, they are extremely difficult to buy and very dangerous to make. Current and voltage actually don't matter much, current DENSITY is the most important factor which is dependent on the surface area of the anode. The time you need to run it is also dependent on volume and concentration of electrolyte, and methylene blue is more useful for checking the transition of chlorate to perchlorate. Sounds like you're just regurgitating a specific procedure from another video you saw.