@@Everythingblackpowder If you could get a good deal on a solar panel, maybe it'd be worth the expense to offset some of the energy costs of this little kiln over time. I mean, I like nuclear best, but that's a lot harder and more expensive to set up at home.
"A Handbook of the Manufacture and Proof of Gunpowder as carried on at the Royal Gunpowder Factory, Waltham Abbey" (Capt FM Smith, RA) 1870, goes into some detail regarding the charcoal they used and how it was made. Variables they would consider include: The type of tree. The age at which it is cut down. The season in which it is cut down. The size to which it is cut for drying. The stacking method whilst drying. The length of time it is left to dry. The removal of knots, bark and foreign material. The size to which it is cut for burning. The length of the burn. The temperature of the burn. The length of time the resulting charcoal stands before being ground. The size to which the resulting charcoal is ground. All of these (and similar for all aspects of the powder making process) were highly regulated to ensure excellent quality, reliable and consistent gunpowder. These skills have, of course, now been largely lost!
Well, blackpowder is still pretty straightforward, so I think that rebuilding this knowledge won't be hard at all, old works like those give helpful pointers still.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Whilst black power itself is pretty straightforward, making consistent, reliable black powder on a commercial basis (as they did in the 19th Century) is not easy to achieve. Believe me, people spent their lives perfecting it. It's an art as much as it is a science! Most of the stuff you see today isn't a patch on the original.
Interesting enough, black powder development didn't stop in 1870. There was great deal of research in BP improvement as rifle calibers decreased, which demanded increasing velocity. 1891 Mosin-Nagant was initially designed for black powder and heavy lead bullet. The French came up with improved BP called "Lesmoc" at about the same time. But a few years later smokeless became practical, and that ended the BP era.
@anatolygrishin4234 The Mosin/Nagant was actually the 1st battle rifle designed for smokeless. Several, including the British Enfield, spanned the transition.
Alright. Now, you are getting down to brass tacks. I believe there is more to the type of carbon used in Black powder as you have already demonstrated in previous videos. Firstly, what role do all three components play in ignition. What role does carbon play. Take the Cottonelle and balsa wood carbon, which has proven to be the best, and attempt to determine why they work so well. This might lead to something even better.
MEEE! TOOO! and I have time to look. my last test is my first test, to leave zero residue at ambient atmosphere with no AMP Smell?? turning my fouling residue into a wet nitric acid rich rusting soup. this batch is AS Dry as a popcorn phart at 65% humidity 6 days outside. 3:2:5 clean and dry at batching. now I will test on raw carbon steel.
" *type of carbon* " Well, there are three isotopes and two allotropes (not counting fullerenes). He's using graphite and C12. I mean, you can't use the word "scientific" in the title and not expect those kinds of comments. That's my excuse, at least... ;-) BTW - Apparently, I am fun at parties.
This is great! I believe the point of controlled charring is to make charcoal that is undercooked to a certain degree. Charcoal made at lower temperatures for a limited time has chocolate to brown color, and it ignites at lower temp compared to fully charred stuff. I've read somewhere that at the pinnacle of black powder development, a certain grade of brown charcoal yielded the highest round velocities. To make brown charcoal, the process has to be terminated BEFORE smoking has ended. If it is taken to the no-smoke stage, I see no difference between controlled kiln and fireplace methods. In my experiments with convection baking oven I found that temperatures as low as 400F are enough to fully carbonize wood. Stopping the process at various time points allows obtaining various degrees of intermediate charring. Another variable to control is puck's specific gravity. In Russia there were two grades of hunting black powder: standard "regular" and higher grade "choice". "Choice" had lower specific gravity of 1.6 - 1.65 compared to 1.7 - 1.75 of "regular". A couple of technical suggestions. 1} Use thermostat so that you don't have to control temperature manually. 2) Light up the exhaust to flare pyrolysis gas and avoid smoke. Keep the good work!
There will still be a difference as the volatiles that need 600c+ to cook off will not have been lost when you control the temp like this. Those wonderful documents online collating all the data on black powders and pyrolysing show some interesting properties that he can now control.
@@1kreature If it isn't hot enough to vaporize and cook off the volatiles, does that mean they are still in the charcoal? And do you think it will provide a bit of extra oomph, or just increase fouling?
@@DH-xw6jp Studies on black powder has shown that the right volatiles left are important for ignition temperatures and "power". That is why this is so exciting! In general it does appear that too high cook-off results in hard to ignite powder while too low leads to fouling. The problem is we have already see hard to ignite powder with massive fouling so there is more to it.
@@1kreature that makes me appreciate what he is doing even more. If he can narrow down the "perfect" powder that is achievable at the home shop level. Oh boy.
Just love the authentic way you guys work stuff out, experiment, admit your mistakes, learn from them, try again. The subject matter is fascinating anyway. But your attitude and presentation make it compelling viewing.
This is fantastic. I love watching normal people science. You don't have a high tech lab, or a million dollar budget, but you have a knack for explaing and a desire to teach. This sort of thing and experimental archeology (which this might fit) are some of my favorite content. (Still holding out for mushroom propellant)
Fellas, I first off want to say that I love your videos! They've been a big inspiration to me to get back into the pyrotechnic arts, which I hadn't touched since I was an amateur rocketeer as a teen. It had never occurred to me back then that the powder I made for my engines would work just as well in a muzzleloader until I saw your videos on doing just that. I followed your guide on pucking and granulating and tried it out with my dad, who only ever used Pyrodex. Big fun. These days, I use a cheap Amazon metal melting furnace for making charcoal. I just cut a piece of 2 inch steel pipe to the length of its crucible, welded a piece of plate to the bottom, and screw on a cap that I tapped for a compression fitting so I can run a smoke tube out the top of the furnace. It has a temperature controller that you can set and it will hold that particular temperature. You can buy same kind of controller as a module and add to it your kiln to get the same convenience and precise temperature control. Keep up the good work! I'm looking forward to seeing how the cottonwood and bamboo perform!
Thanks for turning me on to the furnaces Amazon sells. I won't be using one to make charcoal, but have been wondering how I'm going to smelt and recast the broken bronze rudder mounts for an old wooden boat I'm restoring. Now I have the answer.
Another great video. Always lots of interesting information and experimentation. It will be interesting to see if this can achieve "Cottonelle" level performance.
My wife has a ceramic kiln. It takes 6+ hours to get up to temp. Your kiln is working well. Takes twice as long to cool down since your rig is well insulated. I like your experiments. They are answering questions I have had for a long time. Thanks.
You know you can light that smoke and it will burn like a ptopane torch until the organic vapors burn off thern the flame will go out. Then the chsrcoal is ready. Thanks for the video.
Nice. Your testing will be much more reliable. One small improvement would be to buy a PID controller kit with a type K thermocouple and solid state relay. They're fairly cheap and easy to set up. By the way you could have made this whole thing out of ceramic wool. For your temp range even off the shelf rockwool would work (I've seen people make aluminium casting furnaces with the stuff). Would have been much easier and cheaper to work with. Would still make for a decent lid.
I was going to say a PID would be great for this, I think I still have my parts list if you are interested. How many amps did the heater draw? The way I built my PID is only good for about 15 amps.
@@Aviator747a I've been thinking about an electric cooker with PID to make charcoal. I already have a PID system built from my lead pot and powder coat oven, so to me it made sense. I was thinking of just wrapping the paint can with a heater, then wrapping rock wool around everything. Just need to stand the heater off the paint can to prevent a short. I haven't been looking for heaters yet, but the weather s getting nicer, so time to think about this. Hoping I can get away with about 800 watts of heat, need to do more research.
I admire your dedication to improving the process of making black powder and your attention to being consistent and minimizing variables. You are the very definition of a scientist.
It's great to see you working out challenges one at a time. With the phenomenal successes you've had already, it will be interesting to see what progress you can make with the fine, fine tuning.
Dang, I thought drilling a 2nd hole in the paint can lid and putting a lead thermometer in it and leaving it the whole time to monitor temperature and adjust gas grill accordingly was a breakthrough & cool: outdone again!!! Looked like a fun project, w a cool name and worked as designed. Well done once again!
@@Everythingblackpowder He's got a good point though, a second hole for the pyrometer would let you flare off your pyrolysis gas without fouling the thermocouple lead. OR... direct it onto the side of a square metal can full of cold water. That'll condense any vapor component and give you an idea how "dirty" the base component was by the size and type of stain/goo it leaves behind.
Well I guess the next logical step in this charcoal journey is to figure out the best temp and time to cook at. Thanks as always for the interesting videos.
This channel has consistently provided the best info around on this subject,that alone makes it stand alone,but the quality of the comments have added so much to my powder production,thankyou so much.have still found thumb dia red popular,aged for 3 to 4 years ,at a low temp,still kind of brownish……not fully charred. makes the fastest and cleanest powder.this is a recipe from Workshop Reciepts. Circa 1864… best regards from nz
Entertaining and educational. Should not be this fun to watch. Keep up the pursuit of the best and people will want you to start a business of manufacturing it to sell
I own a heat treating company and build our high temp ovens. It was very smart to cage the bricks. As those bricks heat up and cool thy will crack. But if thy are constrained thy wont fall apart. If you have any questions about this let me know. I digitally control all my ovens with pid controllers. It’s a very easy set up and generally cheeper then a big varac
Derrick spinning that variac knob like Marty McFly in the opening to Back to the Future. Even sounds the same....results the same too.... Rock n Roll from KY
A month ago I wrote in a comment:.....Use a controlled carbonation temperature. And here it is.....😎..Great work boys. (The furnace could have been made from a small stainless steel beer keg. Filled with ceramic wool. Easy to carry and indestructible)
Welcome to the club. You can expect 20%-45% volatile content by weight. I've not run this species in my lab so I don't know what you'll get. I suspect about 30% volatile content. You'll attain lower ignition temps, lower combustion temps and the higher volatile content offsets your fixed carbon and by way of this, offset the inert ash content which translates to more fuel by weight and less fouling. There's more chemistry involved too. A lot more. Like Ph.D worthy studies that one can venture into both in the charcoal and the powder made from it.
As always, it was interesting. I am really interested in how the cottonwood works. It was supposed to be the carbon source of choice (and necessity) of the Confederate States in the Civil War. As you know it is also available in quantity here in the Southwest.
You guys do a great job at trying out new and inventive ways to make an old staple and I LOVE it! You give out great info, make good videos, and are not afraid to fail. Good on ya and great job!
You should look into a PID and SSR to control the kiln/furnace. The PID turns the SSR (solid state relay) on and off to precisely control temperature. There is alot of info on setting them up with wiring diagrams online. You just have to make sure the SSR is rated for the amps of the heating element.
The smoke coming out is probably flammable. Lighting it with a match might get rid of it, just make sure there’s no way for fire to spread or for carbon monoxide to build up.
Ok, close to what I want to see. This is what I want. The best TP, all the same batch. Real control of temperature, I suggest you insulate the box(fiberglass with foil wrap) and put in heat sinks (large steel bars in corners work well). Heat it up and run batches at a fixed temp in 15 minute intervals. I would particularly like to see it pre smoke stopping. Then mill and strain to a set size. Please?
Where my Grandparents used to live in the Adirondack Mountains here in NY, it's now a ghost town, when they lived there they mined titanium dioxide, but back in the 1840's they mined iron ore, and besides the huge blast furnace there were charcoal kilns, really big ones. I've always been fascinated with those things and how they put out the charcoal.
Might be worth integrating a PID controller instead of the variac to keep the temperature more consistent. Johnny's Reloading Bench had a design intended for lead melting pots that could probably be fairly easily adapted.
I'm excited to see how the cotton wood does. I actually got out my lyman flintlock out and got 8 rounds off before the ball got stuck. I hope I can make powder that can do better than the goex I was using.
Awesome kiln! I wouldn't have bothered with the variac. Just hook it up to a cheap on-off thermal controller and set required temp then let it do it's thing. You can even get em with time control so you can have it shut down after it is done cooking.
EBP: Wow! I are impressed! Seriously. Yer going 'all out' here to make the best 'muzzle loader propellent' and it is very interesting. Really looking forward to seeing the bamboo as if it works well that is an easy 'never ending' source.
Great video, as always. In my experience, the smoke during the pyrolisis can be avoided by lighting on fire the fumes, because they are quite flammable. They are composed usually of carbon monoxide (poison!), hydrogen and traces of methane.
That is written in my german books about explosives, chapter " Schwarzpulver" = Black powder..."the charcoal has to be brown instead black in order to have better performance ". Interesting!
I don't know how well it worked, but some guy on the net was making charcoal in a paint can on a hot plate. It would probably be higher quality if the can was insulated.
I think basswood will make a good carbon source. Definitely give that a try. It's a light wood, not as light as balsa but lighter than pine. It's actually close to the light grain of the pine but way softer that the dark grain of pine. I'd gladly send you some if you have a PO box I can send it too. I use it for whittling 👍
WOW...again, lots of good usable information....great to watch and I am confident that you are going to nail this process also! Keep up this awesome testing!!
I'm following you on this. So far I've had to buy some 4" pvc + fittings, a v belt and one pulley, 40 1/2" balls (need more and bigger!😅). I'm in the process of milling ingredients and experimenting with the process. I have some experience with temperature and have many "artifacts" laying around as a result. I knew I'd find a use for it someday!
Between ya'll and couple videos showing people building kit black powder rifle I got flintlock Hatfield 45 cal flintlock haven't shot it yet and haven't shot bp since early teens least this is a start ty guys God bless
I can't wait to watch It. I love every one of your videos. You inspired me to buy a Kibler mountain rifle In 45 I loved it so much.I ordered a 36 caliber barrel and a 32 caliber barrel for it.Also thanks again.
Charcoal isn’t just carbon. It’s cellulose that has been heated to get rid of the water and the volatiles. It’s mostly carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. It’s also quite porous on a microscopic scale. Charcoal is better for antique muzzleloading propellant for the same reason that charcoal is a better fuel for your barbecue than graphite, which requires temperatures of 1000-2000C to burn.
"I'm targeting" JUST THIS! "hi!" cellulose, low all others. On the "micro" "I'm safely ball milling" the snott out with the sulfur at the same time. "I think" you are correct?
You can power it up with a SSR based temperature controller and a k-typed thermocouple. It will be much easier to operate. Looking forward to see outcome of this test.
it would be interesting to compare velocities using the same material for charcoal using old method vs new method. The amount of control you have now SHOULD result in a cleaner burn using the same carbon source material.
At some point the only way to improve the performance is going to be to find a catalyst, and there are some out there. The classic one for pyrotechnics is antimony trisulfide, but you probably like your liver and kidneys the way they are... nasty stuff. But taking the 'backyard garage' thinking approach to this, there's a similarity I see in some of these to a different process, oil driers. Oil drier is a compound you add to a drying oil... a wood finish, to make it polymerize faster and harder than it normally would. It's catalyzing oxidation. What do you need to do in more rapid fashion with gunpowder? Catalyze oxidation. And what have I heard is one thing used long, long ago in both processes to improve oxidation? Lead oxide. You'd get it naturally from milling BP with lead balls, where the wood finishers would just mix in some litharge (white lead oxide). Since that's no bueno these days since leaded coatings were shown to be more than just tasty to unwatched kids, there have been alternatives developed. And before I write a dissertation on metal catalysts, I'll drop back to the backyard approach... just get a little can of "Japan Drier" from the hardware store and leave a little out until it dries and leaves it's contents behind, and mix in a little of that towards the end of processing. Tiny batches first of course, no guarantees there isn't a self-starting exothermic reaction waiting to happen thanks to sulfur's presence.
I like where this is going. Try running some rolls of cottonelle through the kiln at different temps and times to establish a performance baseline to compare all the rest? Be a bit of time and labor but worthwhile.
The real variable is: "What is in the charcoal other than carbon?" Whatever it is, does it help or does it hurt? You might have a chance to augment your powder's power considerably. Good 1st step.
I think it might be a good idea to torch off the pyrolysis gases or cool them down and collect the flammable liquid for other use. I guess there are no buildup from tar in the bottom, even though the jar is top vented? It could be worth monitoring if you try stuff like pinewood. My take would have been to control the temp in the usual place, just shielding it off a little better and controlling the temp using a small fan. Good stuff. Thanks.
When you said scientific, I thought that you were going to have your charcoal analyzed to see what impurities may be present/ absent that are affecting the performance. Would be an interesting thesis for a graduate student at Michigan/ Michigan State.
Nice job! Controllability, repeatability, and perseverance. Sounds like you may need to apply for an FEL and make Willard McBain’s antique MLP put Swiss out of business😁 Also, with the current administration it shouldn’t have been hard to find the right guys to build your brick kiln😉
I don't know if you get waste motor oil very often but perhaps you could make a pyrolisizer that is heated by it. You could still control the temp too. Also, i would like to see you try Palo Verde wood for charcoal since we have a lot of that in AZ. Your videos are awesome BTW
you can make a hole in the earth or in the sand, make a wood fire in the hole, and once the embers are burning, put the pot in and cover everything, leave it overnight it will be more economical you can also cook food like this
Nice, been considering something similar. You could get another few bricks and lay them on top after you put on the metal and might speed up some more. ;)
