The test burn should go foof! You can't get your hand back quick enough. The best stuff has a thump in the sound. But I make antique muzzleloader propellant. Good video.
Thanks!!! I agree!!!, Yes, the goal of vid was to compare mill time in relation to burn speed. This is Far from my fast burning BP. More concept based as I was tired of milling half a day wondering if it was really worth it. Now I know. Can use my good supply of chemicals, and hopefully benefit for years to come.
No problem! Also, another thing..... If you are making BP for cannons, flintlocks, and muzzleloaders...... I've heard it's best little to no dextrin in. I have also heard that using Hardwood charcoal is best, because softwood charcoal makes the firearm VERY dirty.
If making for muzzleloaders and flintlocks, you are much better milling for LONG times. It may be worth the little extra power to mill a long time. Like 12+ hrs. You want it as powerful as possible. If making for fireworking....again, I'd rather mill it 4-7 hrs and throw in some booster. Booster is an option in fireworking, it is NOT an option w/muzzleloaders and cannons.
Very true. Id imagine their BP was not as powerful. With us, we can buy pure chemicals, weigh on scales and get perfect ratio batches. Another way to make BP is with a screen. Maybe Ill do a vid on it one of these days. you basically put a screen over a large bucket, push the chemicals through a fine screen and let it fall to the bottom of the bucket. Do this multiple times and it does a decent job mixing it. I have also heard of people using a Mortar and pestle to make it. Man, that would take forever.
"I'd imagine their BP wasn't as powerful"......LMFAO Their BP was FAR superior to the stuff you demonstrate here. What you've made is low quality fireworks grade BP at best.... no way I'd try using it for a muzzle loader. Head over to "Everything Black Powder" to see how to properly make real BP....
Well they knew that saltpeter would come I. Crystal form (that's as pure as a chemical gets) And they got the other 2 ingredients pretty pure too..they been making good bp for a long time..look up saltpetetmen
Since KNO 3, and sulfur are elements, then the only variable is the Charcoal. I believe it is the charcoal that makes the speed. I went into a bog today looking for Willow and Alders. Two of top woods used by mills. I read, can’t recall where but the Royal Navy specs specified Willow. I live in a town in Maine that made 25% of the Union powder . There were huge log piles in the River of Alders mainly, but Willows too. However, I don’t know as much as you, and your powder is fast. Thanks for the video!
No problem, thank you for the comment. You are correct, soft woods such as willow will burn much faster. You can also screen mix BP but...ball milling tends to make for a faster burning BP. Ball milling will mix (and even smash) the chemicals together and increase burn rate but..... it does seem that milling past 4-6hrs has no added benefit. Hard wood charcoal is easy to buy. With so many suppliers, hardwood charcoal is like $3-$4 per lb. With the softwoods it is more like $12-14. I am not sure why.?.?.? Seems like softwood would be in an abundance at any sawmill. Heck, the end of my table saw probably has 8lbs of softwood sawdust just sitting there. I would like to get some willow. Willow is fairly common where I am at as well. I just need to find someone cutting on the willow tree and snag a little. I have seen mentioned on another channel that Willow BP will burn much faster but it burns EXTREMELY DIRTY. That matters pretty much zero for fireworking but.....may matter with a cannon or muzzleloader. Most of the BP I make I use for fireworking but I do use some for my cannon. I also plan on trying to make some BP to use in my muzzleloader. I Just haven't gotten around to it yet. With that BP, I will most likely use Hardwood Charcoal, but only because the recommendation of that other youtuber. I cant remember the channel, but that other youtuber makes BP specifically for muzzleloaders/etc... so I trust his judgement when it comes to that. If/when i get some softwood charcoal, I will have to compare burn rate on the Hardwood vs Softwood. Ill bet there is a big difference. Also.... .one thing I have noticed is.... You really dont need to mill it very long. If you want it maybe 10% better, can mill for 16hrs. That being said, why mill for 12 additional hours just to make it a little bit better. That is my thought. It may matter for some applications (example being people who wants premium stuff to put in their muzzleloader but dont want to use a dirtier softwood.) With fireworking/etc... It really doesn't matter that much. I find that most anyone out there would say.... they will mill it 3-4hrs and if they want a little more power, they throw in a booster.
Depends on how picky you are about the end product. Purity of KNO3 and Sulfur matter if you're striving to make the best of the best powder. If you just want something that will work, purity is much less important. Wood type and how the charcoal is made(low and slow seems best) matters a lot. Depends on your application and end goals for the powder as to how far down the OCD rabbit hole you go. Making high quality BP for muzzleloaders, for example, is a whole different ballgame. Good luck 👍
DO NOT use hardwood charcoal for muzzle loading propellant.....it makes too slow of a powder. Softwood like pine has more sap and can burn dirtier, but Willow, Alder etc. burn cleaner, and faster, than hardwoods. Check out Jake's videos over at "Everything Black Powder".... he has done tons of research and dozens of tests.
I'll have to give it a try. I use a lot of hardwood, because it is readily available from suppliers at low cost. I make a good amount (BP), so I use mostly hardwood to keep cost low. I do like to have a small stash of premium stuff for specific things though. I plan on making some willow charcoal. Just need to get a few pieces of willow. It grows around where I'm at/just need to find a good branch.
I have some questions. I appreciate it if some excerpts answer it. 1. Granulation is good for lift charge?what about Ffffine powder does it fit for left charge. 2.mill blackpowder is important to make the ratio of burning faster. I have used coffee mixer. Does it the same like milled it? 3.Nano3 does is good for quick match fuse.
Im far from an expert, but happy to give you some my thoughts on the matter. I do larger graluated BP for my lift charge. I have used the extremely fine stuff, but most people will use the bigger stuff. I think one reason is.... you could maybe blow up the tube if you use the extremely fine stuff. That being said, i was using the fine stuff when I 1st started out/was new at this and i never blew a tube. As of now, I will typically use a very large coarse granulated BP. Milled BP is pretty much always going to be better than hand mixed BP. i would not put it in a coffee grinder as it could set it off. I will put the individual chemicals into the coffee grinder and grind it to make it more fine. That being said, I would not recommend putting multiple chemicals into the Coffee Grinder and blending it as it could set it off. Also, not all BP needs to be milled for a long time (or at all.) Sometimes you will want a slower burning BP such as when you coat a star with BP (prime the star.) If you prime a star with too fast a burning BP, it sometimes does not have enough time with the fire on the star to ignite the star. I will screen mix some BP and use it with my stars when i prime them. What I do to prime a star is.... Ill put a layer of Screen mixed BP over them (will roll it on them) and then i will do a layer of my fast burning BP. So, i do 2 layers of BP. As for Quick Match, you dont need Ball Milled BP. You could easily use screen mixed BP. I used Ball Milled BP with about 5% Dextrin when i make my Black Match, but that is not a must. You could use screen mixed BP.
You can get a harbor freight rock vibrator tub thing poke a sm. Hole in the 1100 put it on top it will vibrate in to the tub I'll be going for 1lb. Bach the big vibe. Tub might do 5 lb.
Also, do you press/roll the powder to increase its density such that the volume of the finished product, when compared to the same volume of a commercial product, has nearly identical mass (weight)?
Home made BP is typically higher volume to the same weight. You can press it into pucks, smash it into small pieces and get some higher density BP which is probably closer to Goex. Ill try it eventually, just don't have a puck mould to do this. I tried to make one but it didn't turn out. Eventually I'll try again to make it/I don't want to spend $100 for one as I think I can make one.
I can't remember how much it was. 2-4 grams....I think ..... Softwood does MUCH better. Hardwood is easy to find, and lower cost (through suppliers). I think 1lb hardwood charcoal is maybe $3. Softwoods can be more like $15. I'll probably make some willow in the near future. With fireworking, etc..... Most pyrotechnicians will just make a basic BP.....and if they want more power.....they put a booster into it. That being said......it is fun to spend a good amount of time to make some premium stuff. It's fun to watch.
Interesting process. One thing that I caught was that you added too much charcoal. You say, and the math says that you need 33.9 grams, but you say I'll just add 40 when I think you meant 34 grams. You read off of the scale and say 42, then take out a bit and say 39, that's 40. That's more like 17 or 18%. Powder seemed a little slow for as much care as you took with everything else.
With your screens, you need to drop the first number. Ex your 150, is a 50 your 1100 is a 100. I have the same set. When the BP becomes stuck to the bottom it is no longer being milled. Dex doesn't make it easier to work with. It helps make harder grains but also slows it down. You can achieve hard grains using 70/30 isopropyl alcohol and no dex what so ever if you screen slice and don't grind it through the screen.
Thanks for the advice!!! Yes, with the screens, it is confusing for me. They have Mesh, and they also have the.....squares per SQ inch in the screen. Makes it confusing. So .... A 150 is a 50 mesh, correct? That would be 50 squares in 1sq inch... Maybe the 150 is just the model #? IDK, I kinda hate the way they label them. Agree on the BP getting stuck at the bottom and it no longer benefiting from milling. Whenever I mill past 4 hrs, I will always stop it every couple hours, smack the bottom with a metal spoon, and shake it up a bunch to break it up, to avoid this. I noticed a while back it was getting stuck to the bottom. I noticed after 12 Hr milling, it was beating the crap out of the lead. My guess, BP stuck to the bottom, and once stuck, just lead on lead milling. So....like you said. No more benefit if BP is stuck to the bottom and milling in that state for another 8hrs. Ever since then, I will stop it every hour or 2 and break it up (smack the bottom and shake it.). Clumps it again and then puts the chunks of BP Into the lead. I have noticed that.....after that like 8hr mark ....the BP is very quick to stick to the bottom again. So....it's important to stop it, shake it, break it up every hour or so. That's what I do now, and what I did in the vid. So.... The 12hr mill should be a true 12hr mill since I'm getting the BP off the bottom. That being said, crazy how fast it sticks again to the bottom. For a long time I thought my issue was moisture in the powders. Took me a long time but realized that is just what happens once milling for longer periods of time. Agreed....dex will dilute and weaken the mix. My thought has always been it makes it easier to work with once granulated. Better at holding it's form in granulated shape and less likely to crumble back into powder form (get your fingers black) with minimal pressure (while working with it..) That being said, I have not done much BP w/out any dex so..... I'll have to play around with that and see (after granulation) if it still holds form well w/out dex. I also wonder if it will less to stick to the bottom in it's No Dex form. Last thing....when I granulate BP, I will typically just put it through a screen once, allow to dry, and separate the BP according to partical size. I'll end up with some FFA, some FFA, etc..... I found that after granulating the BP in this video.... I was getting slightly different partical sizes. So...... Maybe the 4 Hr milled stuff was a little smaller partical size than the 12hr milled BP. I was worried it would flaw my test. Since the really fine 7FA stuff just burns faster than the FFA....... I decided to screen it a 2nf time once hard so that the partical sizes between all the cups were the same. Less likely to get flawed results by giving one cup (let's say 2hr mill cup) smaller partical size than the 8hr cup and etc..... Anyhow, hope that makes sense. You make some very valid points and.....honestly changes the way I look at some of the things. One thing I want to better explore is.... How much dex (or if any) is really even needed. When I 1st started making BP, I was adding 10% dex. Nuts, I know but..... I didn't know what I was doing and was following other examples in RU-vid vids. I slowly tapered back the % dex, and seem to continue to taper it back. Maybe I ought to just eliminate it completely. Since starting making BP......ive Learned a TON and.......still learning a ton. Again, appreciate your constructive criticism and comments. I'm still learning and really do appreciate even the constructive criticism as it is critical for one to learn more. Thank you!!!
I'm not sure why they label the screen that way, it might be a part/model number. When I first got them I did the same as you did. The are rated by the wires in an inch. This also is the number of little squares per inch. If you don't over load your mill, it pointless to mill over 6 hours you will gain almost nothing. It started to clump at the bottom because of the particle size. As it get smaller it's easier for them to stick together. I never use dex to make granulated BP, it's very noticeable you lose a lot of the power. Just wet it with enough IPA to make it a clay/putty. Then cut it into smaller parts and roll them into balls. Then roll them out to about 1/16th of and inch and push/cat them with a 16mesh. And you'll get little cubes when they are half way dry use a 8 mesh to brake it up and let it fully dry. They will be rock hard. This will also decrease the amount of fines you will get. This will be around the ffa size grains
@@0xzie golden info, thanks! I'll give it a try. Funny how much you learn as you go. When I 1st started making BP, I was putting in 10% dex. I was just following what someone suggested. It took me a while to realize all I was doing was weakening the BP and wasting dex. I also made my ball mill out of a broken dish washer motor. It's actually a big reason I did the test. Although I feel crafty having utilized a broken motor and DIY-ing my own mill....I also question how energy efficient I am in using a dishwasher motor. It's a beast. I'll tell you one thing, I won't be milling BP any longer than 5hrs now.
I wonder if its really necessary to run these ingredients through a ninja grinder and screen before milling. The milling process should pulverize everything finer than the ninja could get it.
I only use the grinder on my charcoal. I make it from roughly 1/2 square Willow that I've split down from larger pieces.....lead balls take care of everything else. After milling for 4 hours I puck the mill powder and let it dry for 5-6 days then "corn" and classify for size.
I don't know for certain, but I think getting the chemicals as small as possible before putting into the container will decrease the time needed in tumbling to get good BP. Ive considered testing this theory (2 batches, one I blend and the other I keep stock) but I haven't done a video on it. Maybe some day. I hate ball milling the stuff for half a day. Anything I can do to decrease the ball milling time makes me happy.
Id like to puck it. I don't have anything to puck it in though. I thought about making it out of wood (because I am good with woodworking but don't have a metal lathe.) I'm not sure it would stand up to the forces and I would have to use a very strong wood. Where did you get your setup? You buy one or you make one?
I have not. I also have not tracked that. I use my BP mostly for pyrotechnics so fouling is not as big an issue as if we're in a pew pew. I'd imagine best way to test would be to.... Weigh the lead media, mill a bunch of BP, then weigh again. Idk. Eventually I'll use in my muzzle-pewpew and may be worth testing. I cast some of my own lead media for milling. I don't own antimony so It does not have antimony in it, and therefore, I'd imagine could be more of a concern as the lead media I'd be milking would be softer. Again, not sure how much, if any, lead it puts into the BP. I've been curious though. I do have some lead media with antimony but I bought that stuff.
Looks like it was a little slow compared to the CIA method I use and I also corn mine but a good job well done nothing blew up every one lived through the process so that's a plus like the video very much
Thanks! Yea, I was mostly going for basic concept (how much time milling before it has minimal benefit.) All my BP I make with hardwood air float Charcoal. One of these days Ill use some willow or something. I just need to find a neighbor with a willow tree.
My most recent batch of black match burns really slow as I think I put too much charcoal in. I will just do a basic 75:15:10, ball mill it for 6Hrs. Ill then put 1 or 2% dextrin by weight. Ill add Isopropyl alcohol water mixture to it (I only have like 30% isopropyl and the rest is water.) I will then put in bag, soak the string. I prefer to use like 4 strand sting and have 3 layers in it (so 12 strand in total.) I will really push the slurry into the cotton. Hang and dry. Also, if you put Black Match into a enclosed space, you get quick match which burns crazy fast. If you dont know how to do that just do a search for "Black Powder Quick Match" on youtube and it will show you. its nuts but if you enclose it in something it burns insane fast.
Honestly, any blender works. I would recommend a small one like a Magic Bullet sized blender. The one I have I got from Good Will/DI kind of place. I bought it 2nd hand used for maybe $4. I go to good will often. I tend to go to the post/pans and bowls area. You can find some really good bowls screens and sifters. Maybe Ill do a video one of these days on what I look for when I go to Good Will. It kind of drives my wife and kids nuts (as every time we pass one I want to run in and look at bowls and screens.) I only blend small amounts as seen in the vid. Blending too much at a time will just not really blend anything. Better off w/small quantities and multiple batches.
Fireworks supply companies sell everything you need.... but it's MUCH cheaper to make your own charcoal. You can actually get everything you need from a home center like Home Depot or Lowes to make usable BP.
@@TheWingnut58 making BP is really not too bad expense wise. Man, the second I got into making the stars.....that's when it breaks the bank. I've spent a couple thousand at least. It's all good, I enjoy it as a hobby and it makes me happy. Man, Life is tough and can be very monotonous and depressing. My story is kinda funny. Work was killing me (stress). I was looking for a hobby to destress. I found a guy selling a cannon on eBay. I decided I wanted to buy it and shoot crap with it. I Bought it and wife was like "is this a midlife crisis thing?" It probably was 😕 I then Realized I needed to put a ball and something into it so it would go boom. I Researched it. That's what got me into making Black Powder. I made a lot of BP, had a blast with it (literally). I then did some research to see what else I could use BP for. BP is the lifeline/blood in fireworking and rockets. So..... Started doing that. And, it helped me (as an outlet to destress.) I'll just leave it at that/not like your my therapist or anything 😅.
@@ronmurphy9819 read the other comments here. I just replied to a guy and his/my comments may be if some worth to ya. Making BP is not too expensive. Moving on to stars, rockets, etc.... is when it gets expensive. You can make your own charcoal, and potassium Nitrate is in most stump removers. Just need to get some sulfur and it's not too expensive on Amazon. You don't need a ball mill. You can screen mix it. I have wanted to do a vid on that, just been busy. Look it up though, you should be able to find vids on screen mixing BP on RU-vid.
@@piccolopete4673 you should dry your charcoal in a metal pan in the oven at 225 to 250 for about 2 hours before you make your powder. The moisture in the charcoal throws the formula ratio off and drying also cuts down on the clumping. I cook my own White Pine charcoal. Make’s really fast powder.
the lighter the wood the better the charcoal, i.e. balsa wood is best, but that is expensive and dont cook it over 300 centigrade you end up with dirtier powder if you do
Good to know, I appreciate the advice!!! I know softwoods like willow are good. Makes sense though. I need to find someone with a willow tree that needs trimming. We have a bunch of cottonwoods in our yard that we recently trimmed. They are fast growing/wonder if anyone has tried cottonwood.
Lead media is much less likely to spark and cause ignition while mixing. Lead media is the standard when it comes to mixing BP. Non-lead media may be used with some things (making coarse charcoal into a more fine airfloat or maybe getting a single component more fine) but you need to careful with that. I have Non-lead media but I pretty much never use it. I prefer to use lead w/most everything. I find myself using a magic bullet to make single chemicals more fine, but NEVER USE THE MAGIC BULLET to mix multiple chemicals. I will blend (magic bullet) the components of BP as a single component, and then once they are all SEPERATE and fine in size, then I will throw it in the black jug and mix with the lead media. Other items (such as color compositions that may contain Potassium Perchlorate) should be only hand mixed. Keep in mind, this is not my advice but rather my opinion on the matter.
@@piccolopete4673 Lead is metal, there's no reason to expect it to build static any less than anything else. Aren't you concerned that the lead will micro-coat the powder slowing its burn rate? Others have indicated this likelihood. Surely the lead balls abrade each other introducing lead dust into the gun powder, and spreading it dangerously when fired? Surely steel or glass is turning too slowly over such short internal distance to cause impact sparks? ESD the tumbler vessel during operation should much more reliably eliminate static.
@@Dr.JustIsWrong I will only use lead Media when mixing my BP. Unless I screen mix it (then I use a screen and sift it several times but makes a slower burning BP that is good for priming stars.) I am not sure I have a good answer for you other than....using Lead Media it is the gold standard to tumbling BP. Any pyrotechnician (I myself would not consider myself this but more of a hobbyist) uses lead media. Chance of spark is much less with lead. I am most certain you are right with lead getting into the mix. That being said, it is minimal contamination. Nice Lead Media is is coated with antimony (hardens it.... I guess....) so you have less of this contamination. That being said, you will always get lead in your BP when tumbling. I believe, it has little impact on the mix. Antimony coated lead media is kind of costly. I plan on casting my own .5" lead (therefore not antimony coated), and using this to mix up my BP in the future. I think I have maybe 10lbs of the antimony lead media.... which sounds like a lot.... but it really is not seeming as lead is heavy. It is only enough to run two of my tubs at once. Lead is Much less likely to spark though, I can assure you that. It is the gold standard for a reason. I only emphasize this because..... as is making BP is a dangerous hobby and I feel ALL safeguards should be taken if one is going to do it. When shooting pewpews, lead splatters rather than sparks. I was sending 1" lead balls with my cannon over the weekend, and it just absolutely splatters when it hits something. Lead is less likely to spark. I have Stainless Steel 1" ball bearings as well for my cannon. I wont even consider sending those now as they will not only spark, but also bounce. pretty sketchy. Lead is very forgiving. Again, this is just the 2 cents of a hobbyist and one should do their own research..... in depth.... when taking on a hobby like this.
@@piccolopete4673 They used to use Nickle or brass, lead breaks down and causes fouling in your barrel. If your using it for pyrotechnics then it probably doesn't matter.
Dr Wrong, it's not about the static....steel balls can spark on collision with each other inside the mill during the milling process. Glass balls would work, but they deteriorate pretty quickly relative to lead. There's a reason why lead has been the standard for hundreds of years.....
So much wasted time. Ball milliing fine chems for more than 4-6hrs is a waste of time. Not to mention, that's why it was hard in the ball mill when you opened it. The media probably was just tumbling alone for 10 hours while your bp was clumped together on the edge. Poor quality Sulphur can make it clump and harden while ball milling also
Regarding the Term..... "There are many ways to skin a cat"..... I disagree with this. There are only a handful of ways to skin a cat. Purpose of this video was not to show a new (or old) method of making BP. Main focus was to see if milling 16hrs resulted in a significant change in volatility of the BP. Why mill it for 18 hrs if.... milling it at 6 hrs gives you 95% the potency. Not sure it is worth the extra time in milling. That being said, depends on the application. Guys making BP for BP rifles like their BP premium. With them, may be worth milling 18hrs. Guys burning through BP at a fast rate to make fireworks, may not be worth the extra mill time. Anyhow, that was the focus of the video. Thanks for commenting. I still consider myself a novice when it comes to making BP. I have had MANY people on here comment and offer advice on how to do things differently (rolling stars, making BP, little tricks to Black Match/etc...) Honestly, it is all money info for me and I really like the input. Thanks!!!
@@piccolopete4673 NP on making a comment, Your method is better than most, but you might try the CIA method using your ultra fine nitrate. But don't go skinning cats around me, I am a cat person
Thanks! I am sure a much faster BP can be made with softwood, changing ratio, etc… but yea. Main point was to see if mill time had a significant impact on burn rate. I just got tired of milling 12+ hours all the while wondering if it really made much of a difference. If the BP is for fireworking…. Just make a basic BP and add a little booster. That is my conclusion. One thought. If the BP is for lift, you may want to make more certain that it is premium. Not fun having a mortar that does not achieve correct height before ignition. Or… having it come back down and bounce before going off. I have had that happen, that being said, I think it was because I was lazy with the diameter. I did not make it big enough and too much force went around the shell. One thing being… you want to make sure you have good BP with your lift powder. Ive had the mortar come back down to the ground/not achieve optimal height. @@khester7397
I have some questions. I appreciate it if some excerpts answer it. 1. Granulation is good for lift charge?what about Ffffine powder does it fit for left charge. 2.mill blackpowder is important to make the ratio of burning faster. I have used coffee mixer. Does it the same like milled it? 3.Nano3 does is good for quick match fuse.
Sorry for late response. 1. FFA compared to 7FA works for lift. The Smaller the BP (7FA) more likely you will BLOW up the mortar tube. This is why I use the bigger granulated BP for lift. IT IS SAFER. I have used small granulated BP as lift and it didn't blow the tube. That being said, safer to use the bigger granulated BP. 2.... Mill it or screen mix it. NEVER put all BP ingredients into a coffey grinder and mix it. Very dangerous and high likelihood of blowing off your hand. 3. I'm not sure what the nano3 is. I just use BP with low content of dextrin.
