Manaslu's MENACE: Overcrowding & DEADLY Risks  

As one of Dick Bass’ relatives, Dick died as a result of a type of progressive pulmonary fibrosis, caused by scaring of his lungs having developed due to his prolonged time living in high altitudes… Dick told me, on his death bed, that if he had known about the genetics and the potential of scaring his lungs… he never would have climbed all those mountains… Also, Dick finally summited Everest, on his fourth attempt… at 55 years old… sucking on a dry oxygen tank… not knowing of the leak… At the time, the oldest to ever summit… In a way Everest took Dick, in the end… 2022 marks the 40th anniversary of Dick’s first attempt on Everest… having joined Lou Whittaker’s expedition to Everest via China… in 1982… Marty Hoey, who had originally badgered Dick into start climbing peaks, joined Dick on Lou’s expedition… Marty, died on Everest, due to a malfunctioning harness… some 40 years ago… On another attempt… at least four sherpas died in an avalanche… Frank Wells, Dick’s original partner in the Seven Summits adventure, died from a helicopter crash when snow skiing… Dick was in the second helicopter that day… Frank, was with Marty when she died… Two other climbers died on different expeditions when with Frank… I once pointed out to Dick, how people died climbing with Frank… Dick never climbed with Frank again, or flew… I think trying to order pizza delivery is perfect… for Dick to do… Just the attempt must of been a morale booster… for all involved…🎉 Dick, always referred to himself, as being a high altitude hiker… Marty Hoey memorial: www.rmiguides.com/blog/2022/05/18/celebrating_and_remembering_the_1982_china_everest_expedition

Excellent video. I totally agree with your opinions. I'm one person who has definitely heard of Manaslu, having read many books about Himalayan and other mountain climbing locations around the world. I know enough about peaks like Manaslu to understand the extreme challenges and the dangers. I respect people like Jim and Hilaree Nelson for their adventurous spirits, but I don't have sympathy when I hear she was killed on the mountain. I don't want to sound heartless, but all these people take extreme risks knowing the consequences if anything goes wrong. You are correct, unfortunately more will die just like Hilaree Nelson.

what I've learned from watching climbing culture in the Himalayas over thevlast 22 years is that I want NOTHING to do with it.

Thanks again for the great content. I'm not a climber, but I believe your vast experience does allow you to give an opinion. I don't believe in contests. If you tell me that you haven't climbed all 8,000 meter peaks, I congratulate you! WHY, because you are alive to share the beauty that we can only see through the lens from your camera. Thanks for the awesome beauty!

Totally agree with your assessment, Thom. The discussion about Reinhold Messner was about Annapurna I, which he (apparently) reached in snowy, foggy conditions and couldn't tell for sure if he was on the highest point. However, he did reach the true summit of Manaslu (without artificial oxygen) on a Tyrolean expedition in 1972, via the Southwest Face. He proved it by bringing back a rusty piton from the Japanese first-ascenders and accurate descriptions of the highest point. Love your hat and your Fender silver face!

Oh man Thom!! This is wonderful. So much great information. I am not blowing wind up your nethers, but I think of the expeditions you were a part of filming and photographing are more showing the necessity of preparation and skill and frankly fundamental common sense to safely complete climbs on these mountains and show others how to do it. And respect what you are doing. Thanks for sharing.

Nice! I love reading and learning about climbing stories for exactly the reasons you mentioned: these stories show us what people can achieve with determination and a bit of obsession. It's not necessary to climb a high mountain to appreciate that. There are many routes to doing something unusual and remarkable.

Thanks Thom for this material. I was under a huge impression watching Hilaree climbing Lhotse and descending with Jim Dream Line in 2018. What a loss. Once again many thanks for your brilliant job!

Exceptional commentary. Thank you for talking about it. You obviously care about all the people up there, and it shows. Thanks for a great video. Keep them coming!

Manaslu has been on our radar for more than few years. My big mountain dreams began long before “North Face” athletes were even a thing. I’m so grateful that I was able the explore and experience the world pre-cell phone, when computers were in their infancy. A simpler time, where it seemed the mountains were quiet, remote… special, almost secret. Aw… the “golden years.” Now, health issues will keep me from the “big” summits. Absolutely not worth risk to self or others. This last year was spent grieving this loss. Yes, it has felt like the killing of part of my spirit in a sense. I now support my partner in his endeavors. The risk to all sure has increased over the last few years. It’s definitely concerning. Thank you for this. I appreciate your efforts to elevate awareness. Namaste

So weird how the 1996 tragedy seemed like a reckoning, but instead there’s an exponential rise in that type of risk. I climbed an easy mountain recently and was so disappointed at all the people. I was on the mountain, their bodies where there too, but their minds were on instagram.

I've only been alpine climbing in Mont Blanc massif. I was really struck by how hard it was to evaluate risk and make good decisions e.g. stonefall. e.g. avalanche e.g. serac collapse e.g. storms. None of this can be learnt on a climbing wall with plastic holds and bolts. I would feel completely out of my depth on Himalayan sized mountains.

Wonderful video Thom! You are a great story teller!

Nice to see you back in a more substantive contribution. But man, was I distracted by the horrible finish on that strat!! : ]

I really appreciate your thoughts and reflections! Especially from an inside perspective…it is absurd what’s going on on these mountains. I miss the respect and humility for nature and native people. I really hope for the best and a shift in mindset.. Also, what an incredible woman and inspiration Hilaree Nelson was!

Great video Thom. You're breathing fire 🔥 on this one

Thank you brother. I appreciate your insights. Namaste Dhai🙏

100% correct Thom, I’m with you all the way!

I'm not a climber either, I have trouble climbing stairs!! Still climbing has always interested me & I love watching videos like yours. I'm learning lots. Thank you.

Well said and balanced analysis.

Fascinating and appreciate your insight.

Love your videos!

love your channel, very down to earth

Thank you for keeping both my guitars safe

Thanks for the video. Only one minor correction: Not so much Manaslu but Annapurna is where Messners summit claim faces critique from "purists".

That´s a man speaking the truth, really refreshing to hear!

I agree with you completely my friend. I have climbed and hiked many of the 3000-4000 Meter mountains in The Euro Alps over the years, never spent a day in the Himalayas. Never paid any guide or Sherpa, many climbs all by myself. Never pushed it too far, turned back many times. Thank you for pointing out the reality of Commercial Mountain Climbing. It's a dangerous joke at this point. Keep it up.

Fascinating commentary Thom, in just over ten minutes you raised so many issues. A sad loss to the mountaineering world, a world where no one is invincible, Manaslu I feel has been commercialized very poorly, like several other mountains. When a peak like that, for whatever reason becomes the next must do thing, the hype starts rolling and the dollar signs start flashing in outfitters eyes and laptops, then yeah, you are absolutely right, it's disaster waiting to happen. Sadly I'm seeing this more and more here in Nepal, examples of adventure without purity in the Instagram etc world. The other aspect you didn't mention this time but you've covered well in other videos, is the environmental degradation when peaks become too popular. I know a lot of locals are really torn with all this right now, the balance between the bucks rolling in and what is right from environmental, pure adventure and even spiritual dimensions, is out of kilter.

Wonderful commentary. I suppose that craving (Huxley's Bread and Circuses to an extreme) to get oneself away from the mundane, coupled with our Instagram/Selfie culture means there will be more of this. Subscribed and appreciate your take.

Really great insights! I recently found your channel after a video about the Manaslu avalanche came across my feed and I wanted to learn more. I'm not a mountaineer, I'm unable to do more than some easy hiking due to health/joint issues, but I'm always fascinated by this phenomenon we've seen on Everest, other popular peaks, and in an unrelated but recent incident, the Titan submersible, where pushing to go to these extreme environments that others are going is leading to making a risky situation even riskier. As someone who has had to practice much more caution as I get older due to my own personal situation not allowing me to take many risks without very careful risk assessment, the idea of waiting in line to summit sounds like hell to me. I'd rather go elsewhere and experience something less crowded and risky! But I suppose I can see where others would want to push for that "I conquered that" completionism.

Brilliant video. I am not a climber, but I am researching the impact Social Media is having on professional athletes, and the need for them to post content to appease sponsors, and their fan base, which in turn is leading to Mental Health issues, career down turns and in some cases, death. This is a really important topic, thank you for bringing it further out in the open.

Just found your channel recently Thom. Appreciate your perspective and experience. I grew up riding out hurricanes on the East Coast with my dad. I very much appreciate the adventure and need to be fully present in the moment that mountaineering provides. For a couple of months now I've been binge watching videos about Everest on RU-vid at night. My son and I are talking about a trip to Nepal when I retire in a couple of years. I would love to just SEE Everest including the peak. Off the top of your head can you suggest one or two fairly accessible locations that that could be possible from? Do you happen to know? Thank you so much and keep up the good work.

Thanks for another great video. I done my first expedition in September. Mont Blanc/Gran Paradiso. I taught I was super fit. At the top of the glacier on gran paradiso I got altitude sickness. I'm not planning any bigger mountains until I return next year hopefully to summit successfully. All these wealthy mountain tourists need to earn their stripes on smaller mountains. I don't belong on bigger mountains until I climb atheist 8 mountains in the alps

I used to do a lot of match fishing here in the UK and paid my dues in my area. There were quite a few guys who never really cared about being competitive or paying their dues, but they looked the part, had all the top of the range fishing tackle etc. I used to refer to them as "all the gear and no idea", and this is quite similar to the climbers mentioned in the video not paying their dues, and are sponsored by gear companies who throw all the gear at them so they can market their brand, advertise to the same people who have all the gear and no idea 🙄👍

Great vid bro

This was an amazing take! Fully agree! Especially the “paying your dues” part.

Beautifully stated 🍃🌸🍃🙏🏽🍃🌸🍃

I was on Manasu- in '89. It is a mountain that requires respect. I agree with every point you made. I can't hardly believe 100's of people on the mountain. As you said these are not for the peak bagging tourist. These mountains are so extreme that it takes years of experience and sound judgment before one should attempt them. Their was a saying that, "the people that keep summitting will eventually not come back." This is still true. So sorry to hear the about the losses and my heart felt condolences.

Thanks for the thoughtful video. I am a long distance swimmer, coach, and work for a company that does swim events and trips. Its on a different level but we have also seen a rise in people coming to things with unrealistic expectaions of themselves or maybe unrealistic expectaions of the difficulty of what they are attempting. This puts not only themselves but others in danger. I watched with the hope that there is a lesson I/we can take from the sport of mountaineering. My take away is to reinforce the list that asked myself before doing some of the more extreme/iconic swims that I have attempted: Have I prepared? Am I willing to accept the risk? and most importantly will the EXPERIENCE (not the bragging rights) add something to my life.

Interesting video, thank you. As a side note though.....I love that stratocaster behind you. That's such a lovely looking guitar. Never seen one that colour before. Very nice with the black scratchplate and the white pick ups. Super cool!

Thanks!

I love your content. I found your channel when Hilaree was missing & listened to your conversation with Explorersweb. Newbies should watch Netflix Aftershock. All about the earthquake and deaths on Everest & devastation in Kathmandu. Sobering. Wow ! These Climbing “tourists” who are inexperienced, have no idea about the danger. The devastation in 2015, was heart wrenching to watch. Should be mandatory for everyone when they sign up for these expeditions. I agree w/ you Thom, TOO many people on the mountains. Ego & $$$$$. My heart goes out to the Sherpa community. Devastating this year. I subscribed, and really enjoy your insight & hearing the raw truth you are trying to educate the masses. Thank you Thom 😅

Great commentary. As a non mountaineer I'd much rather be alone on unknown peak just doing my thing . Sharing any mountain with hundreds of others is my idea of insanity .

This is a guy I would listen to. Speaks from experience.

Well done.

I think the reason more people are climbing these large mountains is because more people are aware of mountaineering (and of course, the population increase must be account for). I hardly knew about Everest until a RU-vid video got my interest and then another and another and it made me realise that perhaps climbing could be right up my alley in terms of my personal interests. Here’s the thought process: “if I can tackle this hill, then I can tackle the next bigger hill. Then the next mountain. Then pursue my dream career. What can stop me? I have developed the skill of perseverance.”

🙏🏼❤️ Wise Words

I'm not a climber at all ! but this is very educational and responsible !.. I liked it.

Fascinating stuff, great photos but I ain't mountain climbing or cave diving, even if you paid me.

Off topic, but your Strat and Les Paul👍 Think I saw a Fender Twin reverb for a split second…I also love the classics

The stuff they say about messner not summiting all the mountains is in my opinion bs. He did it to the best of the knowledge available and I’m sure no one will say he wouldn’t have been able to. It’s sad these mountains become a tourist attraction.

Risk is part of life. I think a bigger issue is how risk adverse younger generations are. Kids are scared of everything these days! They act like they might die if they do anything dangerous. Even scared of driving.

I can’t even imagine trying to ski that mountain 😱 absolutely insane peak.

I knew Hilaree in telluride and like all world class, elite athletes she had a love of sport that catapulted her into that revered NF sponsorship where pushing it is expected… for many of them (not all) the risk of death is worth the glory if successful. It’s not a death wish, it’s also not greed and not all ego either… it’s a combo of the best in people with the worst of capitalism.

"Der Gipfel" von Anatoli Boukreev ist übrigens eine sehr interessante Ergänzung zum Buch von Krakauer!

P.S. I don't understand people lining-up in giant queues to climb ANYTHING. The wife and I drove to the Hyalite Canyon for some birthday ice climbing in Jan 2019. I hadn't been up there since I started ice climbing back in 1988. Suffice it to say that there was a queue at every piece of ice in the lower climbs. We walked back to the car, pulled-out the snowshoes, and just enjoyed shoeing around the trails in giant, heavy, falling snowflakes that piled-up a foot in just a few hours. I've since quit ice climbing, but if I do I'll stick to going to the unloved, empty ice over here in the Beartooths. Not gonna line up like I'm at an amusement park! :(

Tom spittin’ hot fire about Os! Tell us how you REALLY feel! 🤯

Jim Morrison completed skiing down Manaslu? I thought he died in the 70’s. 😏

Wow, great summary of ego, drive, greed... I would love to do a trek in Nepal, but not at anyone else's or my own life expense.

The footage shown while you described the 'drone' footage was in fact taken using a selfie-stick. 👍

I apologize...my attention went to the Fender amp and what appears to be a 1959 Gibson Les Paul Standard Cherry except for the headstock. I couldn't get a clear view of it but liked the vid.

Honestly I think the pandemic changed the way a lot of people look at their own mortality and that may explain the increasing popularity of venturing into the Karakoram. The high of escaping something potentially fatal is somewhat addictive. That said, from a medical perspective, I think the best way to deal with the situation is to play it as it lies. If the reality is that climbers with less experience are going to be attempting the big mountains, and given the realities of summit fever, I would put forward the contrarian view that we should accept that additional infrastructure is required to support them. While we might scoff at their foolhardy decision making, from a medical perspective, we have to remain non-judgemental. We don’t deny treatment to smokers or alcoholics for example, and whether these folks are making a stupid decision or not, they don’t deserve to die. I would explore the benefits of erethropoetin treatment leading up to departure. Among other things solar, wind and geothermal energy could be harnessed to expand the availability of concentrated oxygen, etc. while certainly many people shouldn’t be there, instead of judging them, maybe we should be exploring practical ways of keeping them alive - or - at least - giving them a better chance of survival.

For me it seems that the drone recordings are not "footage" but an Insta 360 camera (position 4:42). Therefore, the distance to the filmer is always the same and the arm is stretched out. The steepness in the pictures is actually due to the super wide-angle lens of the camera and certainly does not correspond to reality (even if I have not yet been to Manaslu to be able to judge for myself). All speculation regarding this exaggerated impression and, among other things, Reinhold Messner are therefore rather conspiracy theories or the like. Nevertheless, spectacular recordings!!!

Social media has contributed to this madness immensely... I stopped posting on social media to a great extent and it help me focus amd relax on my expeditions...

Awesome guitars

Hi Thom, great content, thank you. I believe that the images from the summit were taken by a new device called "Insta 360" and it looks like a drone shot although it is a camera in a huge "selfie stick", as you can see in one of the latest Casey Neistat videos. It is like a GoPro but more versatile. Check it out. Best Regards.

I know I'm blowing up your notifications haha. Many of my previous comments were during a peyote journey I was taking earlier today. Sorry about that. LOL But you said here in the description that you would bring the drone footage in another post. Just curious if that has happened yet. Thank you!!

YOUR 100 % corrrect with regards to the searches with Manaslu attached to Hillaree Nelson, ( I am one) .....and have an adventurous soul ....although I may not be sponsored athlete like the North Face athletes....to be able to be monetarily compensated for something you love....is a Win Win!! Sadly ...the world has lost a beautiful soul, but she certainly inspires many millions of people to go out and adventure....I am passionate about kiteboarding ( it can be extremely dangerous), but having said that, it make me feel more alive ...and willing to take the associated risk with my sport...!!! As for whats happening with regards to non climbers attempting to climb mtns with minimal skillset, is comparable to someone to go kiting without kite lessons....its an accident waiting to happen!!! (Believe me lots have died kiteboarding because they didnt know how to use their safety systems ...etc!!! Lastly, North Face has lost a beautiful ambassador for products!!! Thank you for sharing!!! 1st time viewer (wont be my last) Cheers...1000 islands Canada

Started coughing up blood on annurpurna at only 5600 m descended 3600m then slept for over 24 hours woke up with a “ hangover”

The first I’ve heard of this woman - but I am one of those people who feel that the needs of your offspring - up until they’re if the age of independence - and that mileage varies, but up until such time you’re a person with dependants and their needs will surely usurp the needs of your own ego. So she’d rather break her own personal records at the risk of becoming the first woman who breaks the hearts of her sons. That my friend is an unfit parent.

There's calculated risk combined with expertise, but then there's gambling.

Regarding the “true summit” is it possible that it is just built up snow and ice to make a new form and size over time?

Arnetts quote applies to every mountain on earth. You need to have the necessary experience prior to attempting anything whether it's a casual scramble on a weekend hike or a major expedition.

I saw a video recently on RU-vid of a guy from the Red Bull team SKIING DOWN K2!!!! 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 That just looks and sounds like an utter death wish

Manaslu... check! Gibson Les Paul ... check! Fender Stratocaster... check! Fender blackface Princeton... check! Marshall plexi or JCM800... errrrr... something is missing here! You don't leave basecamp without a Marshall circuit! Go back down and ruck it up or have a Sherpa bring it up for PROPER summit celebration! :D

I would love to climb, however, the traffic means the risk is too high. Traffic increases your danger and it’s out of your control. Add weather to that and it’s Russian roulette

Into thin air The Summit The ascent The will to climb Everest the cruel way The push Beyond the Mountain Annapurna Savage Arena K2 These are just some of the books I've read and loved. Yet none, NONE of them make me want to climb over 8000 metres. I only JUST want to climb the fells in the lake district. I don't generally mind how people want to spend their time and money. But I really do care when it involves Sherpa or porters that become exploited. Doesn't matter if they are "paid well" by comparison. If you can't take your own equipment, you shouldn't be up there. I even remember the during the earthquake in 2015 in Nepal. The people on Everest had enough money to get a helicopter to base camp quickly. When those in neighbouring villages/valleys couldn't. Sorry I hate to be cynical about areas of such outstanding natural beauty. But it urks me. An hell if I had the money and fitness maybe I would be there but I would like to think I'm realistic enough to know money isn't enough. Sorry for rant. Love your content. ❤️

Nice guitars!

he's not flying a drone. it's a insta360 on the invisible selfish stick. excellent video, thanks. I was talking with my gf about Hilary and she said what you said. "if you have children you have no right to do these things.

I can hear the passion in your voice as you discuss the ecotourist trade.. always heartbreaking when something you're passionate about gets abused and misused.

It's not just on the giants I've seen guides take up people on "simple" peaks in the Alps that had no business being there. In the end it's all about money

CORRECTION . . . There is no such thing as a, "Crappy little mountain!!!!!!"

My exploring aspirations have greatly declined as i grow older thankfully The North Face has introduced slippers so I can still feel the glory and danger of youth and good health going for coffee in the morning while wearing their logo. But the edge is still Out there. H.S.T .

Is that a Princeton on the right?

factz

Never go anywhere to join a queue.

The drone footage you mention was not taken by a drone! It looks like a 360 camera on a long pole

Don't play in the traffic if your not driving all the cars.

alpining is no different than any other extreme sport or thrill / risk hobby; you push the edge with the skillset you develop and refine to handle all the elements required for you to manage stuff at extreme moments /on an edge; you go into it knowing that & that is, frankly, the appeal. No one goes into such things without feeling like they can accomplish the task. It is just a momentary oversight or slip or flash of time mis-stepped or looked in the wrong direction or grabbed the wrong handhold & WHAMO ;you find yourself ( if you are fortunate enough to have time to realize wtf is occurring) meeting your mortality. They are calculated risks but risks none-the-less & odds begin stacking against you over time....

I'd say they're glorifying adventure and endeavour, over risk. (In addition to glorifying North Face merchandise, of course!)

1kth 👍

Been on a track around Manaslu last April and we barely scraped the 17000ft mark. Ideal weather in the spring and even we had to adept our plans due to fresh snow. Any mountain ain't a picknick. It's a challenge even for the fit genetic freaks that can do 8000-ers. Tempting the many is disingenuous and dangerous. I get truly get the temptation to try. There's no one stopping you from trying, **** they actively tempt you with a supportive smile while cashing your check. I'm not a rich guy but I can likely get my bank to bankroll a summit attempt. But where's the ethics? There's no way a 50 year old guy with only light alpine experience and weighing over 100kg should do more then look at the pretty pictures. The fact that even I was asked by tour guides whether I would be back for an attempt at a higher altitude doesn't instill a lot of confidence as to the seriousness of some organizations.

This guy's the George Carlin of mountaineering

I like being in the mountains, but I know, these 8000 meter high mountains are simple too much for me and today with 56 I´m too old for it. I admit, I was interested years ago, looked videos and documetations and it was fascinating. Today when I look at the crowd of people trying to climb Everest I ask myself, why should this be adorable? When I hear, that people are freezing to death because they are waiting a lot of time above 8000 meters to get over the last bottleneck I wonder, why? OK, many people can not afford the 30.000 or 50.000 $ and may be you are afterwards if you survived a start at every party, but what is so exceptional doing this with 200 other people? There will be more and more people trying to climb Everest or one of the other 8000 meter mountains. And yes, we will see a lot of people dying. But it is inevitable. When you read, some with 70 or 12 years, blind, one leg whatever and people who are not able to climb the mountain and being carried by a Sherpa, what is the expectation? If you have a drastic weather change or simple an avalanche on the wrong place, that´s it for some of the people. My fascination is far less than 20 years ago. It is mass tourism, quite similar people flying to Mallorca. The difference is, that in Mallorca people get drunk and may be get a tripper, at Everest & Co. some simple don´t come back for something, so many people did the same before.

They're NOT tragedies,... If you partake in dangerous activities for selfish reasons ( ego, fame, money....). Then whatever befalls you is on you. Plain and simple.. Tragedies happen to the innocent . A family having a picnic and a sudden storm comes out of nowhere and kills them... THAT is tragic.. A person who has very little experience mountaineering, but lots of money and massive ego , pays another person ( people) tens of thousands to " get them to the top", stumbles their way up, ( complaining about anything they can) becomes delirious and causes a fall, killing people ... That's NOT a tragedy ! everyone there has a reason to be there ..the key is , they INTENTIONALLY put themselves there , knowing it's dangerous. And again, selfish reasons !! Uggh, I wasn't intending this to be so long......ok , to get to my point..... Some words are misused to the point of muddying their meaning ... Tragedy is most certainly a big one.. here's another that burns me. " HEROES " It's waaaaay over-used .. Not all military personnel are heroes.. .. example: A random soldier runs right through a mine field to a Lil child.. He keeps the kid still until the helicopter comes , grabs the rope ladder, flown to safety , everyones good.. He IS a hero Is the heli pilot? Nah Is the mess hall cook who gave the kid some stew after? No But according to the media , they ALL are... Omg I need to shutup

The gatekeeping is unreal :P

Give a person money and power and it will reveal their true character.

Climbers flocking to Manaslu this year probably has more to do with the fact that climbers don't have many choices. Manaslu is traditionally viewed along with Cho Oyu & Shishapangma as attainable 8000m peaks during the fall-season, now as the latter 2 are off limits because of China's corona politics, prospective climbers have to choose Manaslu by default.

What have I learned I learned I’m not the only ones who does not like a lot of 😂

That was not a drone shot. It was shot with a handheld 3d camera. It causes perspective distortion. A lot of it.