MANJARO has a BIG PROBLEM

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#manjaro #linux
00:00 Intro
00:41 Sponsor: Monitor and secure your internet connection with Safing
01:45 How Manjaro works
03:39 Security problems
05:20 Packaging non-stable changes without talking with upstream
07:30 AUR integration and issues
09:55 Bad image, and bad decisions
12:43 What's the issue?
14:46 Sponsor: Get a device that's fully Linux compatible with Tuxedo
15:53 Support the channel
The first problem, which might seem small, is in how the company handles very basic stuff, like security certificates.
Manjaro has let their certificates expire 4 times now. It might seem like a very small issue, but it's extremely basic. Renewing certificates is extremely easy, and can be automated. Manjaro's inability to anticipate this or automate it isn't a good sign in terms of how seriously they take their security.
Manjaro also has the habit of trying to release things that aren't ready, without checking with the upstream devs first. One example is with the Asahi Linux project, where Manjaro decided that having Apple Silicon support early would be cool, and shipped a broken kernel.
fosstodon.org/web/@calebccff/...
/ manjaro_is_shipping_an...
This is what led to the "don't ship it" manifesto from various developers, and probably what led the Bottles developer to also ask distros to not repackage their software without talking to them first.
dont-ship.it/
usebottles.com/blog/an-open-l...
Another problem that arose was the use of the AUR in Manjaro. Except the AUR doesn't really work well on Manjaro. Because the AUR assumes you're using the latest Arch software, with the latest versions Arch releases. Which Manjaro doesn't, because they hold back packages for testing. Which means that installing stuff from the AUR can seriously break your Manjaro system if you're not careful.
Manjaro's AUR helper had a bug in it, that sent thousands of requests to the AUR's servers for each Manjaro user. This resulted in an involuntary DDOS attack, short for distributed denial of service
/ pamac_manjaros_package...
gitlab.manjaro.org/applicatio...
And then there are a few other issues. The project lead wanted to buy a new laptop using Manjaro funds, for about 2000€. The treasurer refused the expense, because it went against Manjaro's policy.
This led to an argument with the project lead, and surfaced other expenses that hadn't been discussed according to Manjaro's Policy, and led the treasurer to leave the company, leaving the project lead in full control of all the community funds.
web.archive.org/web/202008070...
Then Manjaro announced that they would be shipping SoftMaker office by default instead of LibreOffice. Replacing an open source component with a proprietary one isn't really something you'd expect from a Linux distribution.
web.archive.org/web/2019121018...
Manjaro has also often been accused of not contributing to upstream, especially on the mobile front. Someone involved in the Pine64 community points out that the fact that most mobile Pine64 projects are starting to falter is due to the fact that only Manjaro is a supported distribution for the Pinephone, where before there were a myriad of community editions, and that Manjaro doesn't really contribute to supporting the hardware.
blog.brixit.nl/why-i-left-pin...

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7 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 974

@TheLinuxEXP Год назад

Download Safing's Portmaster, or subscribe to the SPN, and take control of your network traffic: safing.io

@the1goit Год назад

the adblocker caught my eye, maybe it can help when Manifest 3 comes along.

@theindependentlinuxuser Год назад

Thanks Nick for pointing out that Manjaro really has a problem. It has been 4 months since I kick Manjaro to the curb. I am not running Manjaro on my old laptop anymore. But instead I am running OpenSuse TumbleWeed especially the Gecko Linux Rolling KDE Plasma ones. They do rolling release much more elegant than Arch or Manjaro. And they are backed by industries standards and enterprise standards Suse Linux. Also I am looking at Tuxedo OS as an option especially the 22.04 LTS ones.

@DarthAwar Год назад

I used Manjero for 2 years on and off (mostly on!) but ran into issue after issue so I switched to ClearLinux super smooth and stable!

@AndersJackson Год назад

In the end screen, isn't it "watch more stuff" instead of "watch moar stuff"?

@myriri3687 Год назад

I don't trust an open source project that pays for advertising

@shariarrahman7562 Год назад

As a distro Manjaro has worked very well for me. But the problems you have mentioned are definitely things that need to be addressed. I hope Manjaro devs see this and pay attention to it.

@skelebro9999 Год назад

Same. I was also a fanboy of it long time ago before I discovered EndeavourOS

@StarlordStavanger Год назад

spoiler: they won't

@jarnobot Год назад

These problems and the critisism that comes with it has been going on for years, but these kind of things keep happening. I'm not saying it's impossible, but I wouldn't keep my hopes high. I think they have some serious communication, both internal and external, and management issues. There are tons of other distro's out there that are being developed and managed by people that are way more professional and capable. I really appriciate anyone that contributes to the community, but the team behind Manjaro should really reconsider how their projects get managed and if releasing a whole distribution is the way to go for them. Maybe they should start fresh with something else.

@MrLittleW Год назад

From what I understand, it's not the devs. It's product / leadership. Devs most likely know better, but they have no choice in the matter. Most likely product is pushing way too hard to get stuff out too fast and not leaving enough time for quality. IMO most software problems aren't dev-related, but product / leadership. Look at Cyberpunk for another example.

@HShango Год назад

@@MrLittleW CP that was different scale of 💩, Manjaro has been around for years and still the team there deliver rubbish & buggy updates like as if they have no QA team there. The Manjaro team have no excuse.

@OteimPrincewill Год назад

I used Manjaro for like 2 days and when I went to the forum to ask for help. All I got was condescending remarks like "go and use Windows", "do your research". I'm someone who has dual booted Debian for nearly 8 years so I just went back to Linux mint. It was one of the most unhelpful places I've ever been

@HShango Год назад

The same thing happened to me when I used to use manjaro, thank goodness I got rid of Manjaro. The Manjaro community are terrible they seem to be very rigid and absolutely rude.

@OteimPrincewill Год назад

@@HShango Aye sorry about what you experienced. Most of the time I've used Linux regardless of what issue whether it's broken wifi or hibernation not working..most Linux forum have been helpful and friendly. The Manjaro thing was definitely a shocker

@fenrir7969 Год назад

Yeah I've had help on the forums but the tone used is not the most welcoming.

@fabricio4794 Год назад

Congs,Linux Mint is the Super Mega Ever Good Distro,its hte Alfa from the Distroland.

@aaaaasssss884 Год назад

@@fabricio4794 Is that German culture??

@fleurcode Год назад

"Manjaro has a problem" Literally, when has it not had a problem?

@namonaite Год назад

when I first tried it out which was pretty early on in its existence it was pretty good after that I started using any other arch distro.

@xslvrxslwt Год назад

@@namonaite It was always bad, just your linux knowledge was/is poor back then.

@marioalbertoserranocarreno1244 Год назад

I think, after watch the video: "Manjaro is the problem"

@matthewferraro8020 Год назад

Schrodinger's Linux: Every distro is simultaneously good and bad and only becomes one when you use it

@tonguelover6666 Год назад

Indeed, like all the arch based, there is always some issues with something... 🙃But anyways, each to their own, I'm pretty happy with minimalistic distros, like sparky or mx or even void. But I know aren't for everyone

@x0kosmus0x Год назад

I really hope they get their act together. I've been using Manjaro for several years now and I don't want to switch.

@Beryesa. Год назад

The fact that installing today's sponsor may break manjaro hahah 😅😂

@FengLengshun Год назад

As someone who has been testing and using Manjaro for the last 3 months, you nailed it. I understand the management and image problems, but as someone who is actually using the distro, it feels such a dissonance between how people talk about Manjaro and how for the most part... Manjaro is fine. As a distro you use, if you aren't messing around too much, it's fine. Heck, probably the closest you get to "Arch for people who doesn't want Arch." No, the problem is that Manjaro's organization and management. Personally, I choose Manjaro because I _don't want to manage my system_ . I just want it to just work and I don't want to have to think about it. But I can't have that confidence if Manjaro as an organization keep having dumb issues. As of right now, I'll keep it on my laptop because there's no point in reinstalling if it isn't broken, but if it IS broken, then I'll just use something Ubuntu-based, which has the second most access to apps natively after Arch-based, and supplement everything else with distrobox. I just want access to AUR and not deal with all the problems Arch has recently, and so far on my kubuntu-focus PC, this combo has been working well so I'm keeping a close eye on my Manjaro install right now.

@ab-lymphocite5464 Год назад

I was originally on Manjaro but ended up moving to Fedora because I felt it offered an experience that was close enough while also offering better piece of mind and stability (assuming I don’t version jump during the first month or two).

@donday6753 Год назад

I one up you. I got to manjaro for the more recent kernels without going full dev mode, and it overall was seamless, but a poorly managed team is just a damocles sword hanging above our heads

@InfernalMonsoon Год назад

I've been considering moving to an Ubuntu-based distro like Mint or Zorin for my main PC and using DistroBox for the AUR as well, that seems like a fairly decent way to get everything without much hassle.

@FengLengshun Год назад

@@ab-lymphocite5464 Fedora was okay, but there are some stuff I use that aren't available natively on Fedora, doesn't work right (just Crossover really), or just requires hoops that I don't want to deal with that ultimately I just decided that it's not for me, at least not until their repo + copr matches Ubuntu's PPA, deb-get, and pacstall combined. While distrobox helped, it doesn't solve all of my problems, so I only use it as a last resort, and Ubuntu-based is what I settled with. Fedora's rise in the community was probably what's been pushing Ubuntu to do better though, and I think that's why 22.10 was so much better than 22.04 launch. I hope they both keeps driving each others forward so that we can all benefit.

@FengLengshun Год назад

@Furz Well, I want access to AUR mainly. If I could just install everything I want and then only update when they tell me to, with none of the surprise gotcha's from issues like grub (which Manjaro didn't have) and glibc (which Manjaro only have a week of), I'm happy. I don't care about any weird principles you have, I just want things to work for me. At the end of the day, Linux is a tool: there is no such thing as "correct" or "incorrect" in a tool, there's only whether it fits to what you want and what you need, or not. So long as it works to their specification of what they want/need, then it is the correct tool. So far, it's working, but as Don Day said, the management is the damocles sword. The distro itself is fine.

@TukozAki Год назад

Long time Arch Linux user here; this really adds to my understanding of the general "fatigue" among Arch contributors towards Manjaro.

@lorduggae Год назад

When it comes to the AUR it's a "use at own risk" issue. Even Arch says use the AUR at your own risk.

@coopercummings8370 Год назад

Yes, but the AUR is a dramatically higher risk on Manjaro than on any other arch based distro that uses the standard arch repos. The AUR assumes you have the versions of packages used in the arch repos, so as long as the maintainer of the project does everything right in the build scripts and the package is stable the aur package will not break things. With Manjaro, even if the AUR maintainer and the package developer do everything right installing it can still break things because the manjaro repos have different versions of everything.

@osborne9255 Год назад

Yes! I read everytime I considered AUR useage that it was at own risk. And I don't have the experience to fool around with things so I have played safe. So for the last 1 years I've had no problems at all with Manjaro despite having it on 3 of my 4 computers. I can't express how pleased I am with it.

@lorduggae Год назад

@@coopercummings8370 and that is true. But, it's still the risk that the user takes and isn't the fault of the AUR. While Manjaro has access it doesn't force you to use it.

@ArniesTech Год назад

AUR is Wild West basically. 🤔

@onesandzeroes Год назад

Well, AUR stands for "At Ur own Risk". ;)

@pillmuncher67 Год назад

Fun Fact: The German GmbH is the equivalent to the Ltd. in the English speaking world.

@dylon4906 Год назад

also another thing manjaro has messed up on recently is that the developer of the matray application (tray icon that gives notifications when a new manjaro update has released and links to the forum post for the update news) decided he no longer wanted to be a part of manjaro and asked the manjaro developers to host the project if he would still do maintenance on it. all he received were slow responses arguing over it taking up too bandwidth (even though he assured them it takes up barely any bandwidth) and arguing over no one knowing how to maintain it even though the dev just stated he would maintain it. he never got an answer until another community member volunteered to host it

@gigalodon14 Год назад

Beginners who want to use the AUR should rather install EndeavourOS

@matthiasschuster9505 Год назад

Garuda

@Joe3D Год назад

Switch to Manjaro unstable.

@fabricio4794 Год назад

Big Linux

@gotioify Год назад

I legit did this. Rather I recommended EndeavourOS to a buddy wanting to ditch Windows, but had issues with Ubuntu and it's derivatives. I started using EndeavourOS myself after getting sick of the arch install process, so I knew it was easy enough to use. Since he's switched he's loved it and his computer has never been more stable (hard to install random windows .exes lol). Most of his questions are I use to use X program, what's a good Linux alternative?

@gigalodon14 Год назад

@@gotioify tbf Arch has an install script that does pretty much everything you need but some things aren’t finished yet (for Gnome I think networkmanager is neither enabled nor installed by default which is kind of a problem)

@GarrisIiari Год назад

I'm so conflicted. As a Manjaro user for the last 4-5 years, it has been the most stable, trouble-free experience I've had on Linux in over a decade. For the intermediate Linux user, it's a terrific choice. However, the issues you bring up are real and worthy of thought. I've tried Fedora on a spare laptop recently and, sadly, I have found it is not without its issues and complications. Perhaps I will try out Endeavour OS although, after customizing it, I will likely have rebuilt much of a Manjaro setup!

@gogudelagaze1585 Год назад

The problem with "raw" arch distros is that rarely they do break, whereas manjaro with its slightly slower releases I haven't had any breakage in the last 3 years. That's not something you can easily replicate, unfortunately. That being said, EndeavourOS(Arch+some helpers) is great! I'd also recommend XeroLinux(Arch, but really pretty customizations), or ArcoLinux(also raw Arch, but it's great for learning more about linux)

@onesandzeroes Год назад

Manjaro is a lot more user-friendly than Endeavour if you want to avoid e.g. installing drivers via command line.

@prgnify Год назад

You could experiment with nix maybe, some people seem to be going there from manjaro. Or if you'd like something with a 'release' model more similar to manjaro, tumbleweed is also rolling stable. I use it. I had a couple of problems early on because sometimes some dependencies are renamed and a few programs get confused by it (for me it was literally only one app) but after setting it up it has been rock stable for like, a year and a half - no issues.

@df3yt Год назад

Endeavour is very half baked for an "easy" Arch distro. There are better choices if you want Arch but a working system.

@gogudelagaze1585 Год назад

@@prgnify I switched to NixOS, so can confirm. It's quite a bit more involved, but I love it. You get the best of both worlds ("stable" and rolling), plus with declarative config it's bulletproof.

@CotyTernes Год назад

I've been using Manjaro as my main OS for over a year, and on a bunch of devices for a few years. AUR hasn't broken anything for me, but I acknowledge that it could due to the reasons you said. Mostly what I've had with AUR is just application shortcuts not being created. I really hope their team sees this video and addresses everything.

@killua_148 Год назад

One very popular software, latte (git version) from AUR, often had segmentation fault on Manjaro due to different version of a library. Unfortunately it's pretty common to have issue using the AUR

@srpenguinbr Год назад

The most unstable thing to me is Wine. It often breaks completely, not even lauching winecfg.

@CotyTernes Год назад

@@srpenguinbr Wine is in the official repositories, you really shouldn't be having a problem with it. Would be worth getting some logs and being helped in the Manjaro forums.

@RuriGk Год назад

I used Manjaro for 2 years One day i reinstalled to a new disk and Manjaro broken after a fresh install after running pacman -Syu That day i stopped used manjaro

@talkysassis Год назад

Manjaro is a great distro to: Have a big base repo with every runtime tool, make devs release self contained packages as flatpaks or tars and keep the AUR as a side tool.

@eruno_ Год назад

I think Manjaro was one of the few OS I had most problems with

@d1namis Год назад

I always had a lot more problem with Fedora. As far as i know, part of main Manjaro developers are Russians, and current situation kinda affect them. Also right now manjaro have ARM priority over x86 desktop. Actually i can recommend using Manjaro 20.1 over anything new, if you have new hardwave - use different arch based distro.

@eruno_ Год назад

@@d1namis really Fedora? I been running latest stable Fedora for a good amount of time right now, no problems (though I admit I'm not doing anything crazy). I hope Manjaro can fix their stuff though, the idea of mainstream more user friendly arch is enticing one.

@bluesillybeard Год назад

@@eruno_ the newest version of SteamOS is based on Arch if that makes you feel any better, although the majority of people (on steam decks at least) will probably just use Steam and nothing else.

@skelebro9999 Год назад

Nowadays EndeavourOS is really becoming the new Manjaro. Easy to install, transparent to its users and works almost like vanilla Arch without breaking too much. They even helped with the recent GRUB UEFI issue. But that aside let's see what the future of Manjaro holds.

@SCORP2000 Год назад

Yeah EndeavourOS is great! i'm watching this video and writing this on it!

@TheDefaultgameer Год назад

@@SCORP2000 Honestly was thinking of moving from my current Fedora install over to an Arch based, and with everything I have been seeing with Manjaro, EndeavourOS feels like top choice to go with.

@Beryesa. Год назад

And having one of the least elitist sub-community in Arch-land.

@skelebro9999 Год назад

@@Beryesa. I still don't get the "elitist" thing. Most people I have interacted with in the Arch community are pretty nice.

@skelebro9999 Год назад

@@SCORP2000 Does Bluetooth work for you?

@eckee Год назад

I used Manjaro as a brand new Linux user and it was my favourite Linux distro. I have tried Ubuntu, Pop OS, Fedora, Mint but none of them were even close. Gnome is my taste and it ran perfectly smoothly on my 12 year old laptop. It was highly responsive, I could find help in the forums easily and quickly. I unironically recommend Manjaro for brand new Linux users. Soon I'll ricing pure Arch with a window manager. Or I'll just use Manjaro as prepackaged.

@cielisemotionaltravels 4 месяца назад

For new users in the Linux community ?! Why not NixOs instead ? Non Fedora it's great !

@earthsteward70 Год назад

I heard that the devs were toxic as hell and offered no explanation of GPU partitioning, and so when someone figured it out the devs said "oh good for you! We know you could do it." It disgusted me so much that the first distro I'm flashing to metal will be EndeavorOS.

@aravindpallippara1577 Год назад

Why not arch?

@earthsteward70 Год назад

@@aravindpallippara1577 I have only one PC lol

@10bfarhankhan89 Год назад

@@earthsteward70 I honestly prefer endeavouros to manjaro.Endeavouros is objectively superior in every aspect.It gets packaged with less bloat and provides a more authentic and bonafide arch experience as opposed to manjaro.And unlike manjaro endeavouros doesn't pose and harbor any security and privacy vulnerabilities and guess what the Dev's aren't a bunch of assholes.Whenever I'm distro-hopping and want to settle on a reliable and stable distro for the time being i use endeavouros as a temporal solution as it's gui installer makes for a swift and effortless installation.If time permits i just install arch #iusearchbtw

@10bfarhankhan89 Год назад

@@earthsteward70 i highly suggest giving void linux a shot it is based on the runit init system which abides by the linux philosophy which may be appealing and it is also less bloated resulting in quicker boot speeds and better performance.Void linux's package manager has a competitive suite of software comparable to the aur repo.furthermore the package manager in its essence is on par with aur in terms of speed.+ Void linux also supports the musl c++ library,which is arguably harder to set up but it's a more minimal library i suggest opting for musl if ur up for the challenge.oh and not to mention void's flag ship de is xfce which in my opinion (this may be biased) is the greatest de to have ever been bestowed to linux

@earthsteward70 Год назад

@@10bfarhankhan89 XFCE is a godsend though, 1080P at only 500 MB of RAM. I just...really prefer pamac, it's so simple.

@CMDRSweeper Год назад

I may be narrowminded, but if I see a distro or some complex piece of software have a SSL certificate expiration, I shy away from it, especially if they are using LetsEncrypt. Nothing against LetsEncrypt when I say this, but this is a simple task, a task that is very simple and easy to take care of, and you already have the infrastructure to do such automatically. For a distro you are compiling code, quite often automatically, and I suspect on a cron job as well. Now if you screwed up the simple certificate... What else have you screwed up under the hood? And that is why I shy away from it.

@AdamDymitruk Год назад

Exactly. Not going to touch it. They give Linux a bad name.

@cfusername Год назад

I’m a satisfied Manjaro user for years. Never had any real technical issues and I use a lot of AUR packages (some I modify or make own packages). That being said, I agree that the priorities of the creators are sometimes weird.

@MushroomGecko Год назад

I love Manjaro. Was my first real distro I ever flashed to metal. I even convinced a few friends to use it! However, it's sad to see Manjaro go down this path of irresponsibility and laziness. I've been playing around with Endeavour OS and it's been great!

@exoticlol Год назад

Yo, big supporter. You made me switch to Linux. Thanks for showing me this cool world!

@linusemmerich3424 Год назад

I use Manjaro as my daily driver and so far I haven't experienced any stability issues or dependency hell in the AUR. Updates have always been smooth and if something would go wrong I would still be safe because of Timeshift. Also the out of the box experience is basically what I need, so I don't really have to configure as much as in other distros. So for me Manjaro itself is a great distro, but as you pointed out, the company Manjaro GmbH & Co. KG has some major problems in terms of communication and repetitively appearing bugs without proper workarounds. So please Manjaro, get that sh*t fixed! You have established such a gorgeous distro. It should be possible to automatically update your SSL certificates, let users search for software without DDoSing the entire AUR and being a bit more open in the world of open source. Thank you

@coldestbeer Год назад

I've had a few AUR break so i update after its been out for a few days

@ForeverZer0 Год назад

The update issues are going to be rare, but not uncommon enough that they don't need fair warning about it. Depending on what you use, you could go a lifetime without a problem. If you use a package that has strict versioning for its dependencies, you will have problems more often. This problem will only be compounded if you have two packages that use that dependency, one being AUR and the other from the Manjaro repos. The conflict is unlikely to actually break your system or make it unable to boot, the most common case being that the AUR package in question simply won't work until Manjaro "catches up" with Arch. This ironically results in updates breaking Manjaro, and not Arch, while Manjaro claims this as a selling point when compared to Arch. If you are content and have no problems, then that is all that matters, the distro flamewars can be silly. That said, do keep in mind that every single person's experience is going to be completely anecdotal, and have no bearing on the afore-mentioned problem as a whole, as it depends solely on what you personally use, which is different for everyone.

@overlordmarkus Год назад

My personal issue with Manjaro is that I just can't find a good usecase for it. Do you want to use the AUR? Then go with pure Arch or something like EndeavorOS. Do you want a close to bleeding edge distro? Fedora and OpenSUSE provide way better experiences, while also being more stable. Do you want a stable system without the need to manage it? Why would you use Arch in the first place, go with any popular Ubuntu fork.

@Legion-495 Год назад

That is what drove me from Manjaro to Fedora. Besides HUGE company like RedHat behind it. That hardly is able to fail and the moral compass is correct.

@IoT_ Год назад

Ubuntu does not work on brand new hardware, having troubles with new Legion 7i. Fresh installed - wifi, sound, suspend options did not work, managed to fix wi-fi problems with new kernel,other issues cannot be fixed.

@overlordmarkus Год назад

@@IoT_ Of course it doesn't, support for new hardware is implemented on kernel level. Ubuntu versions are released every six months and get the kernel available at the time. If you want to use Ubuntu with newer kernels your best bet are Ubuntu forks that keep up to date with kernel releases such as PopOS.

@IoT_ Год назад

@@overlordmarkus Of course, you should have mentioned it in your comment when you're saying about "stable system" 😂. Anyway, the problem with suspend and sound cannot be solved neither in Ubuntu nor in pop os nor in Manjaro.

@IoT_ Год назад

@@overlordmarkus I can tell that it's not possible even to launch from live CD Manjaro using proprietary drivers , only open source.

@jpmyers6950 Год назад

Obviously a lot of work goes into these videos, I had not heard of these problems with Manjaro. Invaluable info Nick. Thank you.

@louiesatterwhite3885 Год назад

I've been using Manjaro linux to learn Linux in general, and found having the capabilities and resources of Arch while having a user friendly system on par with Ubuntu has been a treat

@Beryesa. Год назад

AUR is "not supported" on manjaro to be fair, but here's also that, Arch without AUR is like flatpak without flathub.

@bltzcstrnx Год назад

Flathub does not break Flatpacks from other sources though.

@Torviticus Год назад

Really informative video, excellent summary. I only tested Manjaro briefly before deciding it wouldn't be my daily driver but it seemed solid at the time.

@rothn2 Год назад

I think the key to using the AUR in Manjaro is just to be careful. I've been doing this on my PinePhone and it's been fine so far. I'm definitely glad I have the option.

@computerfan1079 Год назад

There is a lot of people leaving Manjaro for Fedora right now. I think a fair bit has to do with this, but it is also a question of timing. Manjaro got popular around the time Proton was new and it needed bleeding edge drivers to have a good experience which was what Manjaro offered. As Proton, Mesa and Wine were becoming more mature, there was less need for bleeding edge drivers and around that time, Gnome and by extention Fedora, became a lot better. I think many people thus moved to Fedora because Fedora became the right balance for most people between newness and stability.

@CotyTernes Год назад

I would use a Fedora base if it was rolling release. Nobara seems the most attractive to me so if they had a rolling release version I would be all over trying that out.

@quazar-omega Год назад

@@CotyTernes isn't there Fedora Rawhide? It's a rolling release

@CotyTernes Год назад

@@quazar-omega not optimized like Nobara is though. Would be too much work for my lazy ass.

@quazar-omega Год назад

@@CotyTernes That's fair, hopefully something like that comes around at some point then

@CotyTernes Год назад

@@quazar-omega also I really love having access to AUR, but I could potentially live without it. Haven't tried setting up a Fedora or Ubuntu base as my main OS in many years, but I could imagine still missing some packages and wishing I had AUR to do all the work for me. Once again I'm a lazy ass.

@dustanddeath3985 Год назад

I've been back on Manjaro for just about a year now, after picking up a new laptop and wanting full hardware support quickly. I had quit Manjaro a few years ago after running Baskerville's BSPWM community edition - his work was amazing, but the manjaro devs kept slacking on renewing the keyrings for repos, which borked updates and required a ton of work on my end. I'm tired of distrohopping, but I think I need to do so once again. I wish Manjaro was as good as it could be, but honestly it could do so much better. Where to go now . . .

@bogdanzayatsastronomyandna4722 Год назад

Open suse or endeavour os Endeavour os has one of the best communities and it's just Arch with a convenient installer.

@cameronbosch1213 Год назад

@@bogdanzayatsastronomyandna4722 It really is. They did remove the GRUB menu theme I liked, but I still have it, as I had it installed before they removed it for future installs (it's now just a bit too simple with the EndeavourOS background, like Ubuntu). It really feels like EndeavourOS is a better Arch, and the community around it (from the former distro Antergos) is hard to best for FOSS.

@sliwka7889 Год назад

i tried linux mint, ubuntu, lubuntu, fedora, manjaro, garuda and arco but arch is just the best choice. it is pretty stable from my experience, and i almost never have issues

@cameronbosch1213 Год назад

@@sliwka7889 Apart from the one GRUB issue, I agree. I never had any other problem with it.

@wyattarich Год назад

Garuda for certain.

@wiiznokes2237 Год назад

I used a lot of distribution but Manjaro was the most stable of them for me, and I don't remember of any issues with AUR. I would recommend it

@LowTechLinux Год назад

I've been on Manjaro-kde for a little over two years. It's the best Linux I have ever used. Easy to install, close to bleeding edge, I love pamac and the kernel gui. The only thing I have AUR is chrome. I have a couple of flatpak, including OBS. Never had an issue (probably because I don't really use AUR). But I've known about some of what you've said already. Manjaro could be leading the pack but like most things human error and greed get in the way. Guess I'll look for a replacement soon in case the need arises.

@TazerXI Год назад

What gets me is that Manjaro ships untested and broken packages, yet holds back packages to be tested

@ArniesTech Год назад

Exactly. Kinda ambivalent 🤔

@igorpecovnik Год назад

They don't test anything. This is pure BS.

@UgoNeiva Год назад

My experience as a Manjaro Linux user is very good. I use the Gnome version and yes i''ve had some trouble before, some pretty bad, but not for an entire year for now. The only problem i always had was with Google Chrome from AUR that constantly stops updating, making me have to remove it, clear AUR cache and reinstall it. Since i no longer use Chrome, it is problem solved for me.

@kote315 Год назад

Today I reinstalled manjaro. But not because something broke, I just had a lot of free time and I wanted to do it. I agree with all the criticism and also that Manjaro is still a very good distribution. It reminds me a lot of Calculate Linux (Russian gentoo-based user-friendly distro), where you have ALL THE POWER, but you don't have to use it.

@fenrir7969 Год назад

Manjaro needs its own Wayback Machine inspired AUR, that archives AUR packages and only releases them to Manjaro users after say 2 weeks. That way, when a user installs an AUR package, there would be a much better chance that it will play nicely with the official packages already installed on the system (which are basically 2 week old Arch packages).

@Gunzy83 Год назад

That would be fine if it were always 2 weeks. This is just my recent experience after moving from Solus (longtime Arch user before that)... Plasma updates were held back for months and a kernel driver bug (USB ethernet adaptor) that was fixed in upstream took weeks to move from testing to stable. The only things that have bitten me in the AUR are things compiled against KDE/Plasma, everything else has been great and not annoying like dealing with snapd.

@Joe3D Год назад

Switch to unstable to match AUR it's your fault.

@geoffreyfagan1798 Год назад

opensuse has robust package testing and an enterprise kernel, excellent hardware support, a rolling release like arch and a point release too, overall great in my personal experience but I can't find much evidence that many people desire that kind of experience relative to manjaro

@theopauw2830 Год назад

I have been using Manjaro as my daily driver for several years on a few different machines but lately I have been doubting myself. What I like about it: 1. the rolling release idea (in theory), 2. the hardware support is good, 3. the XFCE version runs well on old machines, and 4. I have found it to be very stable (between updates). What I don't like: 1. I typically use several AUR packages and my experience has been that at least one of them will have issues every single time I update (didn't really register before that this is a Manjaro issue rather than an AUR issue). 2. On old hardware bigger AUR packages take ages to build, and most of the ones I personally use are actually available natively on other big distros. 3. Some closed source packages that I need for work are not available on Arch based distros (only .deb or .rpm). 4. This is more of an issue with the whole rolling release model, and I should have known this from the start, but it really doesn't work for devices that you don't regularly update. Have gotten stuck a few times with developer signature errors when I dug an old machine out of a cupboard after a couple of months - the last time I just gave up and installed a different distro. 5. I did follow the whole scandal with the treasurer, that was really concerning. I have been playing with MX Linux recently and am considering switching to either that or Fedora XFCE (still need to test that but I have used other RHEL based distros). Will see how it goes

@donday6753 Год назад

It gets me worried when i see already a second tuber distancing himself from manjaro... Guess I'll start looking for something else :/

@MyReviews_karkan Год назад

I really dislike Manjaro as a company, but I still use it. It's literally the only distro that have worked flawlessly on my laptop. The thing has been solid for well over 8 month. Literally zero issues. And I even switched to the unstable branch a couple of months ago to keep up with the AUR packages I have installed. It just works.

@gogudelagaze1585 Год назад

Yup, I've never had problems installing/using Manjaro, while other distros *cough* Ubuntu LTS would often just break/not function properly/spam errors right out of the box.

@fenrir7969 Год назад

Running Manjaro on the unstable branch, you may as well be running pure Arch at that point (Manjaro unstable is created from Arch stable multiple times per day with very few changes made) but via an easy mode installer and with different branding. Nothing wrong with that of course, especially if you want an easier time with the AUR.

@jorelplay8738 Год назад

I used Ubuntu for a long time and always had problems between different versions, like apps installed from ppas not having a current version, broken packages between upgrades and often it needed a fresh install between versions. I completely forgot about these things once I installed manjaro, despite being a little scared since everyone was mentioning how it’s based on arch and arch is by definition unstable. I like manjaro as a distro and it’s sad that they get caught in those management problems.

@KingBowserLP Год назад

As a distro, Manjaro is great! I've used it for years, until i switched to fedora a few months ago. Never had system stability issues due to the AUR, but the *days* it takes them to renew their certificates, something other distros seem to manage just fine, make me uncomfortable as a security conscious user. Speaking from experience, the issues the treasurer had with the project lead may be indicative of bad management practises as a whole. Some projects skirt along with stuff like this for years until it hits their finances. So i'm not sure i'll return to manjaro with my next device.

@shabang71 Год назад

I have been using Manjaro for almost 3 years and I can say that all in all it was a good experience. Occasionally it happened that some features were lost after updating the system and the problem was fixed on the next update. Problems happen more with KDE than with GNOME or XFCE. However, recently I have some applications from the official repositories that are no longer starting. I would like a more reliable system. I think I'll be switching to Fedora or Debian testing in a few days.

@SammySlick Год назад

Yeah I run Debian Unstable on my home desktop. It's gorgeous and ironically pretty stable most of the time.

@Ghostv33 Год назад

Yes the kde version has problems a lot. Maybe since kde is updating stuffs a lot

@orkhepaj Год назад

or windows

@The_Frustrated_Optimist Год назад

I hadn't heard of these issues. I've tried Manjaro KDE on a laptop and find it functions better in some ways than Fedora KDE, like certain theming. The security issues mentioned are a bit conscerning, though.

@Nirsi Год назад

The whole debacle with PINE64 and cutting other distros, it just feels like they shilled some money and essentially bought the "only supported distribution" badge, which is fantastic if that company wanted it as an edge and worked on it, but in this case, it is disgusting.

@igorpecovnik Год назад

Pine64 and Manjaro are connected since the day 1. Manjaro is their sales machinery.

@dijikstra8 Год назад

Interesting! I have used Manjaro for a while now, and I didn't know it had departed that much from Arch. I have experienced problems using the AUR assumed it was due to problematic packages. The AUR is one of the main selling points for using an Arch-based distro for me.

@sithboxer Год назад

Manjaro has been my sole/primary distro for almost two years now, have had exactly zero issues with stuff from the AUR (at least that were Manjaro specific). This is strange to me, and I am really curious what AUR packages the OP was using.

@paulie-g Год назад

The issues are likely things like replacing libraries with -git or newer versions from AUR. This is something you can and do on Arch (albeit infrequently) that would likely break on Manjaro. Personally, I don't see a reason to use an arch that's not Arch (except maybe a systemd-less derivative), but I don't use graphical package managers and whatever else Manjaro is supposed to be good for.

@orkhepaj Год назад

try to update after a few months it will surely break

@JoseMVelazquez Год назад

My favourite Arch based distro was Antergos, sadly it went defunct. I've never truly felt comfortable in Manjaro, it is a good distro, but there was always something that didn't quite work or really annoyed me. I'll give it another go in maybe a year or two.

@DCM777. Год назад

Antergos is now EndeavourOS and it's the greatest Arch based Distro around!

@DeltaSignIsNotAvailable Год назад

@@DCM777. Facts! I've used EOS and I must admit, EndeavourOS is IMO the best Arch-based distro out there

@My-noname Год назад

All this sums up to money problems, in my ears. Probably lost some staff that used to handle things and the change to free office could be a "sponsored" move. They are obviously trying to juggle more balls that they can manage right now.

@SamuelSilva-sz3ig Год назад

Fedora is what Manjaro intended to be. Cutting edge, but more stable.

@slinkousart9849 Год назад

Would be interesting to see a comparison of the different arch based distros, like endeavour, garuda, archcraft, etc.

@JoaoPedro-ki7ct Год назад

*This.* 👆

@mpmontmpmont Год назад

Yes, show us the alternatives and pros and cons

@johncate9541 Год назад

Just use Arch. Arch does things a certain way and if you're using Arch software, you're supposed to use it as intended. The best way to do that is to use Arch.

@orkhepaj Год назад

just dont use arch

@slinkousart9849 Год назад

@@johncate9541 I use arch, installed from the arch iso. I still think a video would be neat

@grimtermite191 Год назад

Just switched from manjaro, to arch manjaro-ified (arch, with kde and pamac). And this video is just backing up my decision

@StrixyN Год назад

After 23 years of running various Linux distros I can deal with pretty much any technical issue that pops up. Manjaro didn't have any issues that I wasn't able to deal with, I just got tired of having to deal with minor issues every time I ran an update.

@altrogeruvah Год назад

I always had a soft spot for Manjaro for doing its thing and completely branching out from Arch, but I still remember that whole SSH debacle taking place and that was super sketch.

@naginipython2772 Год назад

I'm fairly ignorant in linux stuff, got into linux this year due to Manjaro. I like the customization, AUR, pre-built settings, etc. I had issues initially, being a new user breaking things to make complicated features work, but overall, it's been a very good experience. Sad to hear about Plasma Mobile, I intended to learn about development on it.

@PiiskaJesusFreak Год назад

10:00 the information about the use of donation funds here is incorrect. There was no real policy or formal process for using of the donation funds prior to the treasurer leaving. The policy Jonathon refers to in his post was basically formulated by him alone. His conflict with project lead and departure from the project triggered the team actually coming together and agreeing on the financial policy. So currently there actually is a process that is being followed. The project lead is not in the control of the donation funds, they are controlled by a board that approves payments based on voting within the community developer team. The expenses are transparently viewable in a public ledger. I get that the topic of the video is Manjaros image issues, but some source criticism would be appreciated.

@PiiskaJesusFreak Год назад

Also 13:05, the treasurer was never employed by the company, and was not "let go". The company finances are totally separate from the donations to the community development team, and that's what the issue was about.

@jilijeg Год назад

Been using Manjaro for 3 years now. Switched from ubuntu after getting tired of bluetooth, wireless and other hardware problems when changing laptop. Manjaro worked out of the box. Only used Aur, no problems so far. I recommended it to everyone i knew. I hope they value their work and don't screw it up.

@profAMuniz Год назад

Almost two years with Fedora, I can't see myself moving from other distros right now(although that proprietary codecs debacle made me nervous, because I often play some games too... 🤓)

@neffscape6353 Год назад

I'm using Manjaro on my main rig and I'm very happy with it on the stable branch. I've even built some AUR here and there without any issue, and it didn't break. It also supports both flatpaks and snaps out the box, so you don't really need them btw. I agree that their attitude towards closed source software isn't exactly "Stallman approved" and I wish the community was more open and active online as Fedora or Ubuntu are, but hey... Nobody's perfect. At this point it is the only rolling release distro I would suggest to intermediate linux user for its user friendliness and for its stability.

@bluesillybeard Год назад

Same

@Lambda_Ovine Год назад

These are some serious issues! I had no idea bout how disorganized the people behind Manjaro where. No matter how talented the developers are behind Manjaro, lack of proper organization has the potential to kill any project

@orkhepaj Год назад

disorganized cant be talented at least for a dev

@christianguy6428 Год назад

Manjaro was my first intro to an arch based system and I used to love it. That was up until it started breaking on me constantly. It was to the point where I hated going to install a package cause I basically had to pray it would actually work. I loved manjaro but I had to finally switch to Garuda Linux

@orkhepaj Год назад

yup , thats manjaro , it suicides if you try to upgrade after a few months

@Downloader77 8 месяцев назад

Manajaro 4 years rolling release updated continously with no problems. Nice video.

@InfernalMonsoon Год назад

I started using Manjaro before I knew all about their issues, just because I've heard from a bunch of other Linux users that it's a great distro. Personally I've not had any issues as of yet, apart from the KDE Plasma spin because that desktop environment seems to despise my machine, I've been enjoying my time using the Cinnamon spin. However I am definitely starting to have my doubts now that I'm more privy to the faults of the Manjaro team, I'm considering distro hopping back to Garuda using its Cinnamon spin or perhaps giving EndeavourOS a go.

@Psychx_ Год назад

Using the AUR is fine if you use packages that have to be compiled from source. They'll perfectly match the software versions installed on your system!

@idogaming3532 Год назад

Nope. It will depend on things you don't have. Stop the misinformation.

@Psychx_ Год назад

@@idogaming3532 I'm not spreading misinformation and your claim is not universally true. When installing AUR packages from source, it searches for the header files on your system, configures the source code and then starts the build. You either have those headers or not and thus, the compilation will fail(!) accordingly or a feature gets disabled at build time if it was an optional dependency… The only thing people have to take care about, is that they need to recompile AUR packages, once their dependencies receive new major versions (=breaking changes) via the repos, but IIRC some AUR helpers automatically elect them for reinstall in such a case. What's screwing people over is binary packages (precompiled software expecting upstream Arch library versions and configuration), satisfying dependencies for repo packages via AUR, and installing prebuilt kernel modules that are meant for the Arch kernel.

@idogaming3532 Год назад

@@Psychx_ when the AUR won't work for them they'll do this "tHiS AuR tHiNg sUcKs!"

@Psychx_ Год назад

@@idogaming3532 My advise to them would be to stop messing around with unsupported configurations, unless they really understand what they're doing…

@idogaming3532 Год назад

@@Psychx_ or stop using Manjaro so you can use the stuff.

@330toSRT8 Год назад

Thanks for the heads-up on Manjaro's issues. I was going to try it, but basic security issues are a non-starter.

@Zeioth Год назад

About AUR: As you say it's disabled by default. If you decide to enable it, you should use manjaro beta, or just pure arch mirrors*. The system package a command to do so. Pamac is a tool available for all arch distros, so it's not really its responsability to communicate that.

@variable_0 Год назад

I share the same feeling, I like Manjaro as a distro, but most people behind the are what scares me. They could turn against us HARD at any moment without notice. I do plan on switching away but couldn't at the moment

@peeonthe3rdrail414 Год назад

I don't know man, I've been running manjaro for a year now and I have had more problems with linux mint. This is mostly due to the fact that I don't like pop os, and I play a lot of steam games.

@mrmoonmoon Год назад

Great info and insights! Thanks!

@molonlabe8792 7 месяцев назад

The Manjaro I use is an ARM distro on the RockPro64. Only having trouble getting it to boot from the Pci-e slot for an NVMe adapter.

@nothiiiiiiiing Год назад

i like to zsh manjaro not bash it

@df3yt Год назад

Manjaro is what got me hooked on the AUR and why no other distro base comes close once you have used it...Not Pop, Not Fedora nothing can touch it's ease of use. For me the AUR is a make or break, PacUI is and was awesome. As for Manjaro forums, I thought the admins were rude and arrogant. Their documentation was great but some of their staff had the tact of a cactus.

@petergorelov418 Год назад

Haven't you visit Gentoo forums? They are quite stern there, too. But, on the other hand, in majority of cases it's possible to pull your solution out of the Google anyway, so in the end of the day they are rude not to me, so why bother? ;)

@ChimeraX0401 Год назад

In the past, I almost install manjaro on my pc but at the last second I said to myself "I dont want to deal with rolling release distro", so I ended up installing Fedora. Though it comes biting me back that now I'm experimenting with it and making it a combination of stable and rolling just like manjaro (the whole Fedora install is stable while the kernel is rolling release)....

@pabloqp7929 Год назад

great and informative, keep it up!

@mariaveenema4337 Год назад

I've been enjoying Manjaro. The biggest thing I've changed is rip out the entire sound systems and changing it to pipewire. I don't really have any of these issues. With that said, for my next pc I was planning on using PopOS

@Joe3D Год назад

The AUR in Manjaro is to meant to be used with the unstable version of it, not the stable which ships by default.

@RFLCPTR Год назад

Isnt Manjaro's unstable repo still behind by a critical margin?

@fenrir7969 Год назад

@@RFLCPTR Manjaro unstable is created multiple times per day from Arch stable, with very few changes made before release.

@RFLCPTR Год назад

@@fenrir7969 thanks for the correction!

@Luchezarny Год назад

Why is there still no GNOME 43 in arch/manjaro ? I'm using Debiam-Sid+XFCE, but I don't understand why "fresh" Arch still doesn't have fresh 43? :)

@PremiereStoss-qm9un 3 месяца назад

I was running Ubuntu and kept having problems with hardware and software. I got tired of dealing with it. I installed Manjaro and I am absolutely loving it. All hardware was detected and all software (except vmware horizon because it doesn't support Wayland) has worked. I just happened to come across this video after installing Manjaro and playing around with it for a few days. I know that this video is a year old but it was sad to hear all that. I hope now days a lot of those issues are taken care of because I want to run this for a long time....trouble free! Thanks for the great commentary. Please update with another video on the current state of Manjaro.

@suryanshtokas6337 Год назад

manjaro may have lots of problems but in my opinion it's still by far the best distro for anyone looking to get a taste of the arch experience before going full in

@randomname2437 Год назад

Manjaro IS a big problem Fixed that for you

@foss_sound Год назад

I used Manjaro, after Antergos closed it's doors. It was pretty fine. Then update/sec issues started and I left when the money issue for the laptop happened. Still a good distro, but there are others, wich also for my needs.

@atps Год назад

Does anyone else have a problem with kstart/kstart5 on Manjaro KDE with the desktop option? I try to implement in my scripts specific programs to open on specific virtual desktops, which kstart/kstart5 seem to support, but does not work for me.

@tsunamiTMNT Год назад

Manjaro's repository sucks

@stes1647 Год назад

At and after the installation of the latest Manjaro xfce iso there was no office selection, it just installed onlyoffice.

@MarkDavidMcCoskey Год назад

While I have one machine with multi-boot Arch (ArcoLinux, Archcraft, EndeavourOS, Dr460nized Garuda, XeroLinux), I settled on EndeavourOS for a very budget laptop. Endeavour just works. Using Erik's Tweak-Tool, and have AUR activated within Pamac. I also use Mint Linux Cinnamon on another machine, which I'm very happy with.

@succubiuseisspin3707 Год назад

I have Manjaro KDE installed on my work laptop for over 2 years now. Never had any real issues. Only a few apps from AUR - but only because AUR has apps that you can't find anywhere else (neither flathub, snap nor builtin repo)

@HShango Год назад

"never" hahaha Manjaro is crap

@succubiuseisspin3707 Год назад

@@HShango So you don't believe me?

@christianemden7637 Год назад

Hello Nick, I think you are addressing here some excellent points. I’m using Manjaro now for 2 years as my daily driver, and couldn’t be happier, essentially zero problems. But as you said, i barely use any software from the AUR. After having run Kubuntu for many years it was my first step into the arch world, and it will be likely be the last as i see no reason to go anywhere else. The decision of having a curated rolling release is perhaps the best experience i ever had with linux. The problems you described with the leadership are serious and need to be addressed, but it’s not unusual to fall i to those kind of pits when a project of passion, becomes a business. Nonetheless they will need to grow out of this if they want to be successful in the long run.

@PineyJustice Год назад

I had a manjaro install from 2016 through the end of 2022 when I finally made a fresh install after running into issues due to having both gnome and KDE installed. Over the last 7 years or so of running manjaro as my primary PC using latest top tier hardware issues have been infrequent and easily solvable. During my time with a 1080ti it was the exclusive source of any issues I had. Upgrading to AM5 with a 7950x was fairly problematic however it turned out to be due to factors other than manjaro, namely my steam drive got marked as dirty (ntfs drive) and I didn't realize it until after 6 hours of tshooting proton and had issues with multiple flashdrives being sketchy during initial install. After that, the only ongoing issue I have is due to the dreaded intel i225v network card.

@lennyvlaminov9480 Год назад

Using Manjaro on my new laptop (5600H) is a sweet experience with 6.0 kernel but I get concerned listening to this. Will make some more research on my own about AUR and M. Thx for a nice presentation

@tdome3000 Год назад

I have experience just from a user perspective. After many years of using different distros, I had far far less problems with Manjaro KDE than with anything else (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Suse, Mint, Fedora). I have also installed a few AUR applications, no problems there.

@ArniesTech Год назад

Thanks for sharing your experience, Rolf. Seems like a pleasant Manjaro journey 🙏

@tuantran3629 Год назад

Some software I'm using have a lot of random problems that I don't know where it come from. Most noticeably is ckb-next, on Manjaro every time I rebooted, the keyboard was just not working. Didn't happen on EndeavourOS or Arch. This isn't an old core libraries fault either as this happened for almost a year.

@unfa00 Год назад

When I've learned about how disrespectful the Manjaro team is to the rest of the Linux ecosystem I've switched to Arch.

@dumbllama8495 Год назад

it's free and it's great. It's the most I could ask from an operating system. I've always used unstable branch and it didn't create problems like ever.

@annmarielyn1869 Год назад

My friend used to say no big deal about the certificate, but you explained it very well.

@zxuiji Год назад

First I heard of all those issue despite using it daily, perhaps it's because I always make sure to stay at least 1 "major" kernel version behind, for instance currently v6 shows as the latest major kernel but I remain on v5.19 to avoid the unstableness of a new kernel

@joeloveslinux Год назад

Thanks for your interesting views on this topic.

@MAUROdns Год назад

I keep using Manjaro because it "just works" for me. I've been using it for almost 3 years both on my personal PC and job's laptop. I always use LTS kernels and almost nothing from AUR. Maybe that's the cause I haven't experienced any problem but I agree with every point listed in the video. If something breaks in the future, I'll definitely try another distro like EndeavourOS.

@bernardmueller5676 Год назад

I love Ubuntu - but their update on 20.04 from Kernel -48 to -50 BROKE my NVidia 3070 Ti. It is impossible to boot, the screen stays black. No problems with -48, but everything higher does not work. The computer is fairly new, from the beginning of this year. Any ideas on what to do?