Hey man, I just wanted to say thanks for putting these videos out. I watch these as a guide to know which trails to ride with my bro cause we just got into mtb and they really help.
Thanks. Half the reason I do them is to make the sort of videos that I wish I’d seen when I started riding. Always surprises me to see so many people riding the main Dam loop and not trying out all the better trails around it.
@@RideyRodney I haven't done the dam yet but we just got back from Jumping Jacks and the black after it (forgot the name) and I'll say you definitely make it looks easier than it is haha. Keep it up man
As an echidna who loves to ride and is also an echidna biologist working on invasive weeds and soil disturbance, unsanctioned trails are pretty detrimental to native bushland and should be avoided. They often provide some of the best riding, but they also alter the local layout of the land which alters water flow, can cause nutrient runoff issues in waterways, destroys protected areas and species like terrestrial orchids (which most people don't know are there), disturb wildlife, and introduce weeds into areas through disturbance and removal of native plant competition. While many of them are really fun, the problem lies when people just keep expanding and expanding without really thinking. You end up with sprawling trails which disturb a heap more bushland than just a few singular trails, creating a high area of 'edge effect' bushland which allows weeds to invade the bare ground on the edge of trails. As unsanctioned trails are unmanaged with the broader picture in mind (unlike sanctioned trails which get attention from bush care groups and council) weeds often set in and get a foothold, spreading into more of the bush. Breaking rocks also removes valuable reptile habitat. Some of these areas host pretty unique and sometimes threatened species. In short (or long after reading this essay (Sorry, but you did ask ;) ), unsanctioned trails often have many unforeseen environmental costs and can be a big problem for the long term reducing the bushland that we all love to ride in. If the area is already destroyed with weeds I'd say go for it. But if like Manly Dam and Mt Narra the area is pretty much pristine bush it's not a good idea as anything you do will have consequences for something in the future. A good thing for the councils to do would be to get MTB groups together to restore and plant natives in areas with weeds, work with them to make some sick trails but also get the area back into gear for the wild flora and fauna. That way we'd have a win-win. But don't make new trails.
I’ll concede to all your points as being true. However, if you want to talk about expanding without really thinking, open up Google maps and zoom out to get greater Sydney in view. I can't spot a single MTB trail, but I can spot the destruction of natural habitat from the building of houses caused by both sides of Government who know nothing more than running the economy on overpriced property with a ponzi scheme powered by mass immigration. The destruction of habitat from unsanctioned single track isn’t even a rounding error when compared to everything else that goes on. If it doesn’t involve digging stuff out of the ground to send overseas, or building overpriced houses, governments aren’t interested. I know I’m mixing up levels of government here, but they all pretty much sing from the same hymn sheet, and I think they are all as useful as either other. So whilst it would be nice to get Council and the 1000 other key stakeholders involved in building trails, my mountain biking days will be long gone before it ever happens. They aren’t interested, and move hopelessly slow when doing anything. So that means unsanctioned trails and maybe some extra weeds. The unsanctioned trails I ride get better maintenance than the sanctioned ones because there is no stuffing around with Council BS. I think all the unsanctioned trails are great and love the work of the trail builders. Thanks for the comment. I appreciate that you took the time and were respectful, I get it, but I disagree.
@@RideyRodney Love Manly Dam, ride variants of it once a week. My only reservation about new trails being created ad-hoc is where will it stop? Manly Dam has such a beautiful ecosystem in the heart of a city. It would be easy to wreck it.
@@gsrossco I'd be content if the area of 'destruction' of the dam by single track equaled the size of the golf coarse, that seems reasonable. The Golf coarse is about 460,000m^2, the main loop is 10km. Most of it is fire trail so that really doesn't count, but if we count it as single track and call it 1m wide, that's 10,000m^2. So I think that means another 45 official damp loops to to get there? If that's too much, what about just 1/10th of the golf coarse, another 4 to 5 loops?
I've been involved with trying to get Council to come to the party with more sanctioned trials over the last 14 years. Basically, it ebbs and flows, but no real progress has been made except for the opening of the Bare Creek Bike Park. (For me, that's a fizzer as I'll never ride it. That kind of high-price-of-failure stuff is not the kind of riding I'm interested in.) Council still doesn't get the scale of the network required to meet demand. The supply gap has only become worse as MTB has exploded during the pandemic. I would encourage you to continue to ride the trails and publicise them. The more people ride them, and the more unsanctioned trails there are, the more evidence there is of unmet demand. What we need is more green and blue trials so that kids and families can get out and ride and progress, as that takes the sport mainstream and silences those who perjoratively describe MTB riders as an adrenaline junky minority that can be ignored. Proving the family oriented nature of the sport has shut down critics at Westleigh (H2O) and forced Council to re-evaluate its plans to close much of the green-rated part of the network they allege is in sensitive EEC.
I penned a letter to whoever it was that was running the community consultation for the demolition of the H20 network. I thought it would be a waste of time, but it’s good to know Council listened. I head out there with the misses because most of the trails on the beaches are too intense. Thanks for the comment, totally agree with you.
I had a similar reaction on two of my recent vids. As Levi said the builders are working with authorities to legalise more trails. Good point abt them being on Trailforks though 🤘🏼
I think there is just such a long history of secretly building trails and riding them like a bunch of outlaws doing your best to keep it all hidden. That needs to change, we need more people riding and more people building and maintaining existing trails.
Good on you bro thank you for showing those great trails. If somebody is worried about ecological impact, let me tell mob do not damage the park as reduction bush fires do. I love your videos bro It has help me a lot !!
Imagine people having a go at walkers for walking on an "un-sanctioned trail", would anyone have a problem?? Get off MTBers backs......I agree 100% with you
The Alternative to chasing more technical trails, is to lose the suspension. Riding a rigid bike around the Dam apart from the big drop at the 19th is a blast if you are dialled in.
My thought is that if your an adult...make up your own mind about which trails to ride...I mean Edwards was closed then open then closed then open again for ages along with Fat gap. there all on trail forks so I'm not sure why someone is having a go at you...great vid by the way.... for a bit more of an extended loop with lots of tech try Popeye and olive oil backwards then forwards followed by half possum then onto dirty shnitty droppping onto the lower single track to keep on going down to Serratta then up to daisy duke back onto possum then fat gap then pipeline...at the bottom of pipeline go under the pipe and there's a trail called Ben and Jerrys which then leads you to Eva's track pop out the top and onto Edwards all up around 24klm which will feel like. 50 🤘
I really like the whole Popeye to Possum stretch. The work going on in there is impressive with all of the wooden features now. That would be one hell of a ride to link all of it together onto the other side. The Gahnia / Serrata side is on my list to do. I think there is mentality out there that it's trail builders and riders against the Council, and everything needs to be done in the shadows. I just think with enough riders on the trails that would have to change Council's mindset.
you should start at seaforth oval then go down possums all the way to the pedestrian bridge then cross and go that way its about 5k trail with lots of features packed together
Thanks. I've got most of that run in my Aldi hard tail vs Manly dam video. And I agree it's a nice section of trail, better most of the Dam official loop.
Another awesome video. Ive started doing the possoms trails area. Any other tracks you'd reccomend for a northern beaches local who just got started? Thanks
Hey thanks. Beginner trails are hard to come by on the beaches. I'd check out Serrata on the other side of the Dam and see how you go. I'd also recommend Powder Thief/Coopers Blue up near Bahai, great trails and not too technical.
If showing all the trails on Trailforks throughout the video hasn't helped you, I seriously don't know what would. it's the Manly Dam MTB trail in Sydney, Northern beaches. That's the best I can offer.
With insufficient facilities for our sport and insufficient govt support I don't see any issue. And you're right the more people that do it the more it makes it normal and this goes for just about anything. National park and crown land should be shared equitably for recreational use. Its the govt and parks that need to come to the party and not the other way around.
Problem with Manly Dam is that there are significant archaeological indigenous sites on found in the area. They aren't open or made known to the public for their protection. Hence the need for sanctioned trails. Trail walking does not damage these trails the same way MTB tracks do. As someone who works in heritage, and loves MTB I wouldn't ride any unsanctioned trails at Manly Dam, out of respect and the desire to not give MTBers a bad name.
The official Manly dam loop is a pathetic trail of mostly fire road. The Council has zero plans to build any more trails there. I've made this point before, the golf coarse takes out an area of at least 45 times the size of the dam mtb loop. Why don't I hear cries of how terrible the golf coarse is? At a minimum I want a trail that is 100% single track, which would still only be about 2% of the 'destruction' that the golf coarse caused. If Council won't deliver it, then it's up to people building unsanctioned trails. Perfect example is Nemesis which was unsanctioned until recently, however has now been formalised.
@@RideyRodney To answer your questions: 1. Manly and Wakehurst and many other Golf courses in Sydney were built prior to the establishment of a standard heritage consulting procedure. But that was then, this is now and we have better standards. 2. The main concern is that the sandstone outcrops and platforms on the tops of the ridges throughout the northern beaches are covered in indigenous art. The same sandstone that makes fantastic drops and technical sections. Riding over them causes wear. Attempts to bring public attention to this art in the past has led to acts of significant racially motivated vandalism. Hence the need to keep their specific locations more of a secret. I 100% agree that Manly Dam needs a facelift and improvement but uninformed and unconsulted construction of trails will only lead to further damage of integral heritage which makes the Northern Beaches such a special place. Brute forcing legiimate trails in this instance would be a real shame and bring down the integrity of the sport. If you know people who are building trails Can I highly recommend you get them in touch with the guys from the Metropolitan Local Aboriginal Land Council (they monitor the heritage of the area) and get their 2 cents. You'd be doing one better than Manly Council has for decades. Pm me if you want more deets or other heritage advice or if you're looking for a fellow millennial to ride with for a day at Stromlo.
@@Tentfire I couldn't agree more. I've tried to placate many conservationists by saying mtbing connects people to the bush. There is some truth in that, but there is also truth that a lot are boneheads who don't give a shit about the environment.
Dont think promoting unsanctioned trails helps, because it can be hard getting support for the regular trails. It gives ammunition to the anti-cyclists that can be very vocal, obtuse and false (outright lieing) in their actions. So effectively you are saying the more people that speed in vehicles legitimises an increase in road speed limits. But im not convinced the numbers you raise would be useful in legitimising it anyway. There was a petrol trail bike riding around h2o today.....
With the exception of fatback, all the other unsanctioned trails have been formaslised, so there is that. It’s a stupid system, but trails need to be built in the bush, ridden, closed, rebuilt, then formalised. Reminds me I need to fill in some sort of response to the Council for the proposed Seaforth bike park.
