Mara X: what you don't see is what you get.

Просмотров 40 тыс.

% 521

Interior and functional look at Mara X.
Sorry for the rambling presentation and the shaky camera; this is my first cell phone video; and I'm not quite there yet with pointing the cellphone and talking at the same time. However, the video does cover the main features of the Mara X.

Хобби

Опубликовано:

15 мар 2020

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 111

@t3chnno 4 года назад

Wonderfully detailed write up. Thank you.

@paulwharton1850 3 года назад

Many thanks for such a great in depth and clear review. I like how you highlighted the advanced type of Counterflow Heat Exchanger - Nobody else has stated that it has this feature ........Not even Lelit in their product brochure ! It was on the strength of this video that I got one and am very, very pleased with it - a very capable, easy to use machine which is good quality. The new type of pump certainly makes it quiet during operation.

@thomasliu4545 3 года назад

Mind blowing indeed, sir! I have been watching lots of videos about E61, and always been concerned about the temperature offset between the boiler and group head, because most other brands put the temperature probe inside the boiler. Here I see a very smart design to put the probe at the syphon outlet right before returning back inside the boiler, which can give a much more precise temperature detection and adjustment.

@qwe7410 Год назад

I work in repairs for espresso machines; many of those machines we've recently repaired are Lelit. Poor ventilation, silly parts placement and poor-quality components are usually the leading cause. We always charge much more for Lelits because they are not technician friendly and take much more time to service. Some users would instead purchase a new machine, and we would strongly recommend that than fixing these. Even a complicated Slayer won't take me twice as long. You'll need to remove a lot of parts to reach some components. I believe that most users could only own these for a short time if they are faced with expensive issues all the time. You need really a lot of care and be very lucky. A basic Bezzera, VBM or Rocket could outlast this by miles. For example, the probe's placement and the long copper rod's silly design to the wand explain why the steam isn't great. Some users asked us to fix it. You can only fix it by blasting the boiler hotter and killing the other components. Nobody would want to set their boiler that hot. U place the probe in that position and measure the water for that bit more accuracy, which most users can't tell the difference. Only to put the machine at a much higher risk; this is precisely how silly. This is just one of the many examples. There's something at the back of my head telling me there's something wrong about safety, but I can't tell what it is. Some valves or electronics they use, like the safety, are cheap. The relay, which could fail quickly from heat, is placed right next to the boiler and also at a spot where water seeps in. Some components constantly fail from moisture damage due to where they place them. And not to mention the heat damage, it's ridiculously high compared to the other brands we have seen. Such damages are hard to fix as they can damage everywhere and usually don't fail alone. Meaning the technician has to waste time testing most components. Some components can't be tested quickly, and many in these lelits can't be reached easily either. That's why we said we have to charge more as it wastes more time and requires more replacements. If I could choose, I won't want to take the job. All electronic components have a longevity rating, and thermal stress reduces the lifespan. The machine is also unusually lighter than most other E61 machines; it's anyone's guess where they shaved. One guy brought a China E61 the other day, and I can see the resemblances. Full of features to show on the brochure, flimsy components tightly packed together in a tight space which is a PITA to repair. With Breville's takeover, I hope they have not used the engineering team from China on Lelit.

@HBsJim Год назад

My experience has been different. I've been maintaing my home machines for twenty years; and I have not found the Lelits less relaible or harder to work on than my other machines. Lelits are sold by all the largest internet vendors, all of whom "fire" companies that create warranty losses or give their service departments a hard time.

@nucik 7 месяцев назад

How does Bianca stands?

@mark73729 4 года назад

Thank you very much for your detailed explanation !!

@user-fp7so1kp3b 4 года назад

Thank you very much. This explanation is very useful. I really benefited from it.

@nevermindthees Месяц назад

That's so well explained, great! Now I understand why certain things are like that. I thoroughly agree: supercrowded but beautiful inside. The body should be made of glass.

@HBsJim Месяц назад

Thanks. I'm not sure how well glass case espresso macjhines have fared. Maybe that's one steampunk step too far.

@nevermindthees 29 дней назад

@@HBsJim :-)

@alexwalshaw 3 года назад

As someone looking to step away from my La Pavoni and into a prosumer level semi-auto, I have found myself overwhelmed by the choices. For my budget and space at home, I have been fixated on heat exchanger machines, specifically the Rocket Appartamento and the Mara X. Your video was extremely informative for me but many others I am sure showcasing the attention to detail of the Mara's internals and subtle features that set it above and beyond the Appartamento while coming in a few hundred dollars cheaper. Thank you again for the excellent video, back to my research!

@HBsJim 3 года назад

You're welcome. Manufacturers have tries lots of ways to create a temperature stable E61 brew group on heat exchanger machines. On commercial machines, there are adjustable valves on the thermosyphon; but htese add a lot of expense and require fairly frequent and expert tuning. Lelit has done very well to come up with a technology thay can be brought to budget E61 machines. I expect other manuifaturers will be bringing out similar tech by next year.

@alexwalshaw 3 года назад

@@HBsJim that's great to know, if I can afford to purchase a Mara X this year I think I would, but I suppose I could always wait and see what the market brings out. I still think this machine is incredible though given its price, form factor and capabilities.

@PasqualeGalasso 7 месяцев назад

Thanks Jim Schulmann, I'm reading your impressions of the Mara on the barista forum (I'm Pasgal there). And I arrived here, on your channel, I subscribe. Thank you.

@wheelerlight8541 4 года назад

Great info. Just ordered one.

@gosman949 4 года назад

And how do you like it?

@davidshapiro6164 Год назад

Thanks for the excellent video!

@SirFifolo 3 года назад

Very wellexplained, thank you.

@ritahall8148 4 года назад

Very interesting. Thanks.

@rizalahmad4207 2 года назад

I thank you for the very detailed review. You must be an engineer to know all this.

@HBsJim 2 года назад

Thanks. It's been a 20 year hobby of mine

@nicehugoboss Год назад

Great lesson sir, even I don’t have it right now. but enjoy watching your explanation/ feel like I am fixing a vintage car or sth. like that. amazing :P but planning to have such machine , like Lelit / ECM etc. good for us to understand more from insides. lovely machine with brassssss ! 😂 thank you sir!!!!! i will consider Mara X for sure!

@HBsJim Год назад

Thanks. If you enjoy doing your own work, the new E61 machines like the Lelit are OK, but they contain a lot of electronics; so that you'll also be working on black boxe and sensors. If you prefer old school, all mechanical; you may be better off getting pre-2K vintage machines from long standing manufacturers like Cimbali, Faema, Astroria, etc, and getting the repair parts from the espresso part suppliers.

@pranadistribution6033 3 года назад

Great in-depth review and instruction. Do you still have a lever machine, or do you find that the Lelit approach satisfies more of your needs than did your Strega? thanks, Fred

@HBsJim 3 года назад

I'm a bit of a pack rat, so I still have the Strega and occasionally use it.

@migo33 2 года назад

Thanks for the great video. I am about to replace my Lelit Anna with a HX and probably will go with the Mara X due it's size and ease of use. It looks like the Mara X is a crossover between a PID and a None PID machine. The added 'robot' and thermostats in the right places make that happen. Your video is well made, however I would recommend a little tripod and perhaps use a screwdriver or chopstick to point out the hot pipes. not need to burn fingers -)

@HBsJim 2 года назад

Thanks. The pointer is a good idea. The tripod is probably too; but I was trying to see if I could just wing it with a cell phone.

@migo33 2 года назад

@@HBsJim cellphones are more than capable. It's usually the audio that requires a dedicated mic. People will most likely stop watching a video due to sound than visual especially when using headphones.

@burnsyblues 3 года назад

Really nice to learn what does what, only person that has pointed out what tube is what, if only the bloody camera was pointing at the parts you were talking about! 🙈😂

@HBsJim 3 года назад

Sorry about that; I'm not much with a cell phone camera.

@wakeawaken430 3 года назад

There is no possibility NOT to say that the video is awesome I hope that you will be able to make the same with the Elizabeth V3

@HBsJim 3 года назад

Thanks

@HBsJim 3 года назад

I'm no manufacturing expert; but when I fix espresso machines I use copper or plastic plumbing because they are easy to find and fit. I suspect that may be the case when the machines are assembled as well.

@CookieManCookies 3 года назад

Mandrel-bent stainless steel piping with swaglock fittings is best, supports crazy high pressure, up to 270 bar pressure. If I was more comfortable with espresso machines, I'd replace all the parts with swaglock fittings, and stainless 1/4 inch pipe. You can buy the piping on McMaster for $21 a foot. The fittings get more expensive, around $30 for a connection, not sure if it uses gaskets, not sure if that's the best price either... On my manufacturing work, we use zip-tied silicone wrapping tape on hot lines. Helps maintain high temperatures.

@cedricobringer5401 2 года назад

Hello, Thank you for all your great videos. I would like to ask you a question. I have been using a lelit mara x for 3 weeks on which I have installed a probe thermometer on the group, I do not use the eco mode which caused the temperature to fluctuate too much. Since yesterday I have a big temperature problem, on the temperature range "0" so 90 to 92 ° C my machine does not go below 96 ° C during the extraction. Normally the machine remains stable whatever the time it remains on at 89 to 90°C (group temperature) and 91 to 92°C extraction temperature. I use always filtered water and it is backflushed. I hope I was clear enough and that the translation is not too bad. I contacted customer service for my machine but any help would be appreciated. If you have an idea, thank you in advance.

@HBsJim 2 года назад

Hi Cedric. I'm sorry, but I don't know of anything more you can do. The temperature sensor in the thermosyphon may need to be cleaned, replaced, or recalibrated. The machines are easy to service if you are handy. But you'll need to contact the service people from your vendor, and they'll coach you over the phone, or link you to the shop video if there is one.

@jm7720 3 года назад

Why the are they using a stainless steel boiler but tubes made of copper/brass and plastic? Can't they use stainless steel for it all internally? The big questions i have are: Is this safe because its so crowded? And are there any known issues?

@chadgregory9037 2 года назад

13:35 omg I stood up and looked out the window cause I thought someone was tooting their horn as they drove by haha

@BBxx19 Год назад

I have the machine in the Version 2 and in the last 2 weeks the Temperature LED mostly doesn’t stop blinking or takes forever to stop blinking. Sometimes a backflush helps but not always. It starts blinking after every shot. What could be broken? The temperature probe at the bottom of the machine?

@erihsehc2 Год назад

great video! just wondering if we need to flush out the water from the boiler regularly to prevent the limescale build up? does the brew water comes out from the boiler or the brew water source is separated?

@HBsJim Год назад

In a heat exchanger machine (HX), like the Mara, the water for the shot flows through a tube inside the steam boiler. As it flows through, it heats up to roughly the 90C to 95C brew range. But there is a lot of variation based on the flow rate variations, and how long the machine has been sitting. The final control is done by metal of the group itself. If this is at the right temperature, it will force the brew waer to something close. This is old school, 1960s style control. The Mara X's wrinkle is that the group is controlled by a PID that varies the boiler temperature. This adds slop to the HX part, but more than compensates by the precise temperature at the group. It is good practice, roughy once a month, to fill your tank with distilled water, shut off the machine, and open up the water tap. This empties empties the steam boiler down to 1/2 ot 1/3. Turn the machine back on, and you refill with distilled water, thereby diluting the minerals and retarding scaling.

@erihsehc2 Год назад

@@HBsJim Thanks Jim, it is very informative. I wondered if the water in the tube is only from the water tank or a small portion of the water in the tube is routed from the boiler in marax?

@HBsJim Год назад

@@erihsehc2 It's a straight through heat exchanger. The thermosyphon loop that keeps the group heated by circulating boiler water through it, shares a port with the HX water fed into the group, but there is a checkvalve. People have speculated whether there is mixing, and how much, in due to the shared port. Maybe I'm not curious enough, but I've never worried about it.

@davidllewelyn2077 3 года назад

Very enjoyable description of its operation! Thanks for spending the time, and for taking off the case so that we can see its innards. My ECM Giotto E-61 H/X is now well over 20 years old and still going strong; but for how much longer? I'm debating whether the future should hold another such machine, a full double boiler, or even the Elizabeth (which seems to offer great functionality, but is unnervingly lightweight).

@HBsJim 3 года назад

You have the granddaddy of home E61s! They were a game changer when they came out; but over the last twenty years, they have been tweaked so that they are a lot easier to use (and in most cases better built as well, although the ECM was nicely put together compared to the VBM or Isomac). You could improve your existing machine with a flow control paddle and a temperature sensor in the group. But the new ones are a lot more consistent for everyday use.

@davidllewelyn2077 3 года назад

@@HBsJim I rebuilt the E61 last year with new springs and valves and thought about investing in flow control at the time. I decided against it because I don't know how long the boiler will hold up. What is involved in adding a temperature sensor? Do you mean an adhesive patch on the group, or something more enduring?

@HBsJim 3 года назад

@@davidllewelyn2077 You would have to forgo the group pressure gauge and use the well for temperature instead. Google on "E61 temperature gauge" to get the various options; it'll set you back about $100. IMO, for an old HX E61, the temperature gauge is much more useful: you can eyeball the flow, you can't eyeball the temperature. For a super long preinfuse on a light roast, just throttle the flow control after about five seconds. You can get learn the timing by using a PF based pressure gauge.

@davidllewelyn2077 3 года назад

@@HBsJim Thanks! I'll look it up and figure it out. Maybe mount the gauge independently? As you mentioned in your video, we've all moved away from dark roasts in favour of more acidity and brightness, so brew temperature is an important parameter and I'm in the dark. But she's still going strong, and with the help of a precision screen and basket, and a bottomless PF, the shots are really very good.

@davidllewelyn2077 3 года назад

I see digital temperature gauges for sale that insert at the purge screw on the upper part of the group head. They're affordable and easily fitted. I wonder how responsive they are to water temperature when mounted to a large chunk of brass?

@Squilliam-Fancyson Год назад

Not 100% sure if the slow ramp up pump is a bonus. E61 already has a preinfusion feature by design, as well as vibratory pumps in general. I already get about 10sec preinfusion with a standard Ulka EX 5 pump with my ECM Classika PID, which is on the edge of being too much for dark roasted coffees. The Olab Silent green in the Lelit Mara X will extend the preinfusion even further, which is only an advantage for rly light roasts. Would strongly advice to preload the lower collector(leaving lever in 45° angle after flush) to shorten preinfusion for darker roasts. Lelit mainly went with this pump desigjn to decrease the likelyhood of channeling for espresso machine beginners and of course to lower noise level.(which is important, because of to the very thin unisolated housing of the Mara X)

@HBsJim Год назад

Thank you for your comments; it's lovely to finally have a peanut gallery.

@Squilliam-Fancyson Год назад

@@HBsJim Sry if my comment sounds a bit harsh. No hate at all. Actually I rly like the Mara X. With the Mara X Lelit managed to deliver a package of features that are normally not seen on sub 1000$ machines.(stainless steel boiler, high quality hx, "PID light", nice thick copper main group feed pipe). Without a doubt the most innovative HX E61 machine in it's pricerange.(300$ more expensive Rocket Apartamento feels quiet old in comparison) Lelit only missed out with getting the most out of all the features they added and cheaped out a bit on build quality and reliability. For example the PID settings don't do that much, as for most coffees only the lowest setting(90-94°) rly hits the point. Of course someone can brew coffee with 96-100° hot water but that wont taste that well. (maybe they fixed that with second iteration, got the first release from 2020 for testing). Then there is the pump, that rly is great in terms of noise for a vibra. pump but not ideal in pressure build up.(also fails quiet often from what i read online which normally is a cheap repair but the Mara X pump costs 80$) And last but not least, there is a problem with failing heat sensors and the controll unit. Some Mara X reach pressures above 3bars while heating up until the safety valve starts to vent. Also quiet a costly repair needed than. Without those imperfections it would rly come close to a perfect E61 HX machine.

@HBsJim Год назад

@@Squilliam-Fancyson I may have been lucky with my review machines. The boiler cycled fairly predictably between 0.8 bar and 2.5 bar, and I could even use a short flush to push it up for nice steaming performance. The cycling behavior, rather than settling to a midpoint, is deliberate, since the lags are so high, that using the PID in the normal way would have been futile. It would have been nice if they had developed a model based controller, but that would have required custom parts and probably blown their budget. Despite the rough and ready implementation, it was my assumption that every other manufacturer would follow suit with the HX E61s; maybe the pandemic has delayed this. I certainly like the X far more than any other HX E61 I ever tried. This includes setting up the jet and spring rates for lighter roasts.

@NickMayers-rj9zn Год назад

@@Squilliam-Fancyson the e61 was made for changing things like the gicleur and preinfusion spring fairly easy, so you should be able to change it out to suit your prefences for roast.

@kabirsingh1347 3 года назад

Thanks so much For this wonderful video ..can you please confirm if this is valid for bianca too?? Cus I'm having more than 3 Bars

@HBsJim 3 года назад

I'm not sure what you mean. The Bianca's steam pressure can be set. If it is overheating, contact your vendor.

@eskerinola5845 3 года назад

Coming from a a Breville Barista and looking for the most reasonable prosumer coffee machine, I wonder if, based on your experience you would buy it again or another brand/model like ECM Classika PID/ Expobar Minore IV/ Quick Mill/ etc? Thank you!!

@HBsJim 3 года назад

In terms of build quality, they are very much the same. The Mara X is distinguished by having it's temperature control in the thermosyphon loop, rather than the boiler. This means the machine does not need to be flushed to manage the shot temperature. On the other HX machines, you will want to install a group head thermometer in order to manage the shot temperature. I expect the other manufacturers will follow suit with similar models once the pandemic is over.

@kpblasko 3 года назад

Does the Mara X still require a flush before brewing to get the super-hot water out of the group? Every E61 I’ve tried has required 5-10 seconds of flushing to get down to sub 200F (with pressure stat set to ~1.1bar)

@kpblasko 3 года назад

Just heard you address it within the last 10 seconds 😂

@HBsJim 3 года назад

Um; no flush is the whole point of the machine. These videos are an adjunct to the reviews on home-barista.com. You ccan get the details there..

@kpblasko 3 года назад

@@HBsJim Nice, will read your review there!

@s96822 2 года назад

Is this the machine said to use the Olab silent vibe pump? It doesn't sound silent in the video.

@HBsJim 2 года назад

The machine does use the Olab pump, and it is slightly quieter than an Ulka. The sound on these videos is not as in person, so I should describe it. No vibe pump is as quiet as a properly mounted rotary pump, and a good deal of the noise they create in many machines is due to poor mounting transmitting vibrations to the case. This can vary from machine to machine even of the same model. The units I tested ( a neta unit and a production model) were properly mounted and on the quiet side for a vibe pump machine, but they are not game changing quiet.

@oksako7932 2 года назад

Awesome explanation many thanks I really enjoyed this! This question has to be: Would you today buy an Elizabeth or a Mara X considering both are the same price and why? Really looking forward for your reply! Best wishes

@HBsJim 2 года назад

I have not used the Elizabeth, so it's hard for me to comment. However, there are two things that stand out which would personally incline me towards the X. First, the E61 is generally a more forgiving group than the integrated boiler/group style the Elizabeth uses; moreover, the X is tuned for a long preinfusion that makes it easy to do third wave roasts. Also the smaller steam boiler will make streaming multiple cappas or large lattes more of a chore. On the Elizabeth's side -- that style group is more finely adjustable for brew temperature. If you are more quantitative than qualitative, the Elizabeth could be a better fit.

@oksako7932 2 года назад

@@HBsJim thank you very much! I'm holding me back from buying the X because I always think that it would be a mistake considering ease of use, controllability, energy consumption etc while at the same time I can't get it out of my mind. Your answer confirms that I don't have to be that concerned and that x would be a great choice.

@tmortime 3 года назад

Hi Jim, I'm wondering if you could comment on some of the following. I have a lot of water coming out of that spout at the back of the tray at various times. I've had mixed reports about whether all of these are normal. I think it's apparent that some of it is normal, but maybe not all? 1. When warming up water will drain from the valve right at the back of the tray, is that normal? 2. When it's warming up it will release steam a couple times. I'm not sure if this is from the group head or the valve at the back of the tray, is that normal? 3. When pouring a shot water will almost constantly be released from the valve at the back of the tray, is that normal? 4. A few minutes after operation the pump will run and more water will come out of the valve at the back of the tray while this is happening, is that normal? 5. After the machine came up to temp and the lights went solid, while I was grinding etc, the pump kicked in twice, each time expelling a bit of water through that spout at the back of the tray, is that normal? Thanks for the input, -Tom

@HBsJim 3 года назад

Yes, if the amount of water is not excessive (i.e. more than 4 ounces, 125ml) overall. All of the over pressure valves are tied to that spout; so getting some water flowing out of it when warming up, when making shots, and when the auto-fill fills the boiler, is normal. But it should be a couple of table spoons each time. If it is more, one of your overpressure valves might be set too low. In this case, phone your seller's tech department, and they will guide you through the adjustment.

@tmortime 3 года назад

@@HBsJim Hi - thanks for the reply. I would say most of the time, ie when warming up, or when the pump runs at random intervals, it's much less than that, just a little run of drops. It's hard to say how much is coming out just when pulling the shot, it looks pretty constant but whether it's more than a couple tablespoons I'm not sure. I think I measured about 50 ml overall for warmup, pulling the shot and then releasing the leaver at the end with the water that comes rushing out of the bottom of the group head. I actually made a video here the other day: pulling the shot at the start with the water outflow there, and then at 2:30 after the shot is done the pump runs for a bit and some water comes out, does all this look like reasonable amounts that line up with your experience: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nEwYDKZ37NE.html ? Thanks again for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it. You might be saving me from unnecessarily shipping the unit back across the country.

@HBsJim 3 года назад

The water at the end of the shot should be substantial -- its all the water in the group that wasn't used in the shot, usually about 50 to 75 ml, 2 to 3 ounces. But the water during the shot shows that the OPV is set too loose. No need to ship the unit, you can opne it and adjust it with a wrench. Call your sales company's tech to tell you where to put the wrench.

@tmortime 3 года назад

@@HBsJim Thanks again for the info. I'll dig into that. I was under the impression that the OPV was okay because I'm hitting about 9.5 bar during the brew. I assume this goes up if I adjust the valve?

@HBsJim 3 года назад

Yeah, If you are getting 9.5 bar, you're good. You must have a pump on steroids or something, since it's putting out more volume than most vibe pumps can at that pressure. I think you're good to go.

@GlenEdwards 3 года назад

Thanks for the in depth look inside! Have you ever heard about why they have changed the temp probe on top to a 9600092 which is the same probe as the one underneath in the thermosyphon return? Lelit Insider shows it in the how-to preplace it video here ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-q-lIPk3-U0g.html This new setup is still not listed on any Lelit parts diagram that I can find.

@HBsJim 3 года назад

Sorry, I can't help you; I'm not really competent to comment on their hardware choices. You'll have to contact Lelit directly.

@TheUnrevealer 3 года назад

Safety valve opens way above 3 bar, in fact, it needs to steam pressure arrow bottom out at pump pressure arrow, I had this malfunction and this was happening every time I started machine in coffee mode. In service I think thermometer was replaced to fix this issue. Still, sometimes during fast heating start it reach 2.75 bar sometimes 3, sometimes it goes above 3, and then temp led stop flashing, pressure decreases and stabilises at around 0.4, 0.7 or smth.

@HBsJim 3 года назад

It sounds like there are several problems, since the regular electronics should switch the heat off when the boiler reaches around 2.5 bar. You need to contact the service department of your vendor and ask them to trouble shoot the problem over the phone.

@TheUnrevealer 3 года назад

@@HBsJim I waited for two months for a first repair with an excuse of ”part took time to be delivered from Italy”, which is weird as I am not from overseas and even Ferrari could be delivered faster. Jokes aside, from lelit own explanation document they show fast heating range is up to 3 bar and during coffee delivery range could reach even 2,5 bar, and yes, few times I was able to reach that even Im not sure how. Oddly enough, this fast heatup stops either at 2.75 sometimes at 3 bar, sometimes a bit higher. Guess it may be due some air gaps forming in the system or the control board half-failure, as I do not believe in ”two in a row” thermometer failures...

@HBsJim 3 года назад

I'm sorry you have had a troubles. My test unit went up to 2.5 bar; and I never had the safety valve go off. If units can go up to three bar per design during warm up, the safety valve has to to be set at least at least at 3.5, but more likely at 4 bar (regular machine steam boilers operating at one bar have a 2.5 bar safety valve, and double boiler machines, where the steam runs at 2 bar typically have 3 bar safeties). The boiler is clearly built to withstand these higher pressures, so there is probaly no safety issue. However, you may want to check what the specification on the safety valve are. Do the group and thermosyphon overheat during the warmup? That would indicate a problem with the thermometer. If they do not, then there may be no problem at all, just the usual machine to machine variance in the thermosyphon heat transport (i.e it takes a hotter boiler on you machine to get your group to the target temperature compared to my test machine)

@TheUnrevealer 3 года назад

@@HBsJim You do not need to sorry for :) I need to install group thermometer for more clear understanding whats going on. The thing I say is that there is some variance of max steam pressure from which point the temp led goes solid and pressure gradually begins to decrease and stabilise. Weirdly enough, before repair, the first time my machine blown safety valve was when I made a coffee and pressure went for a steam boost, but instead of reaching 1.5 bar it went up and up up until the steam arrow went into pump arrow range and hit the pump arrow itself. From that moment every fast heatup in coffee mode ended up with uncontrollable pressure rise, so I gave my machine to service. Traditional hx mode worked fine though and I used that mode as a temporary solution. As I understand, steam mode uses boiler (top) sensor, and coffee mode uses hx sensor?

@HBsJim 3 года назад

There has been a run of problems reported on home-barista in double boiler Profitechs and Lelits with steam boilers to go over temperature. As in your case, people have tried replacing or cleaning the thermocouples, with very mixed success. I haven't noticed anyone else reporting your problem with the X on home-barista, but you may want to post there and see if there are others.

@Alpha-Alpha 2 года назад

I have not watched a shaky video for this long , thanks, very informative. wish you improve on your camera work :)

@HBsJim 2 года назад

Thanks. I wanted to show the interior details up close; but my handheld camera technique needs a lot more practice. I didn't realize that the closer you get, the more annoying the shake.

@SteveJarek 3 года назад

Would you still recommend this a year later? I’m interested in this machine just curious about reliability

@HBsJim 3 года назад

The overall response on the coffee fora has been that it is an overall reliable machine without any design defects. Most of the parts are standard E61; and the new way of controlling the group temperature has not had problems.

@ferm3r 3 года назад

Wonderful review, that’s the level of explaining I’m looking from the manufacturer 😀 Could you please say from your perspective, is there any good alternatives to this machine with approx the same budget you might consider to buy. My previous coffee machine was lelit as well (lower class) and it was doing a really great job, so I’m considering now to move to a more professional machine and lelit seems a good choice to me again.

@HBsJim 3 года назад

Thanks. There are many HX-E61 machines in the $1.5K to $2K range; all of which can make superb shots, and most of which are well built. However, the Mara is unique in in this class in two ways: First: it actively manages the group temperature, so that it is as stable as a double boiler machine; second, it has a softer preinfusion, making it easier for light "3rd Wave" roasts. You can achieve the same thing with a group head thermometer and an E61 flow control; but that would require much more management on your part. The MaraX is best for those who want the machine to make well tuned shots without them having to do any adjustments .

@michaelheckhuis8342 3 года назад

Great explanation. Thanks a lot. It seems, that this will my next machine :-) Or any other suggestions? Update: two months ago I bought a Lelit Elizabeth... Really happy with her :-)

@HBsJim 3 года назад

In this price bracket, it's somewhat unique; no other compact HX machine has these tweaks or this performance (I'm guessing this will change in the next year or two). The Breville dual boiler is in this price range; and is worth considering in terms of performance, but the aesthetics are really different.

@michaelheckhuis8342 3 года назад

@@HBsJim thanks a lot again! Kind regards Michael

@GlenEdwards 3 года назад

@@HBsJim in Australia here the price is about $900 difference between the Breville DB and Lelit Mara X. I would say that’s a significant price gap enough to set them apart. Very different machines with different target customers. I’ve been using a Breville DB for around 5 yrs and now I’ve got a Mara order. I’m really looking forward to stepping up to this real-deal machine.

@bigglyguy8429 3 года назад

@@HBsJim My Breville Bambino broke down in just over half a year. Utter trash. That's why i'm looking around at other machines. I will never, ever, buy a Breville again.

@AzizIzgin 3 года назад

Hi! I am seriously considering this machine. I just sold my gaggia classic and want an upgrade. I have a few questions though. I am used to a single boiler machine where I switch between shots and steam... is it this functionality the same with Mara? Also , I only drink alone around 3 espresso and 1-2 cappuccino each day. Is this machine an overkill for me or would I get the same results with lelit grace or maybe even Victoria if I don’t mind waiting for between shots and steam? Last question, how much more maintenance is there for this machine with cleaning and descaling if one compare with cheaper single boiler machines? Do one have to leave it at the shop for service every once in a while or can one do it at home? Even though I rather want to go for a slightly cheaper model I want a solid machine that will last me a long time since I don’t like to upgrade anymore. I just bought the grinder eureka specialita and hope it will be good with my next machine. Really appreciate any recommendations you might have🙏🏻

@Squilliam-Fancyson Год назад

Your grouphead look pretty scratched up. My ECM Classika PID is 7 years old now, and my grouphead does not has any scratches. It should only be clean with soft microfiber cloths.(dont use papertowls or cotton cloths) Also juged by the water stains on your lower collector your water is way too calcareous. Would go with soft bottle water or filtering.

@blackbirdster 2 года назад

Amazing video, thank you. I noticed my Marax (and I guess all) flush a bit of water when it is ready, from the bottom of the group. Do you know how that « auto » flush works? The lever and cam are definitely not moving, how is it tubed to allow that?

@HBsJim 2 года назад

Thanks. Good question about the discharge. When the levetta (the proper word for the manual E61 actuator) is down, the three way valve is open to the exhaust. If the expansion and over pressure valves open due to the heating water, some of water will drip out of the group. I notice this happens more with the Lelit machines than with older model E61s I knew, (it may happen to all the more contemporary machines); and I'm guessing they have improved the safety valving.

@blackbirdster 2 года назад

@@HBsJim indeed it happens quite a bit, and I’m guessing it could be related to MaraX thermal management - ie letting a bit of extra hot water out once target temperature is reached, to stop heating and to be able to modulate more finely after. Just a supposition.