That so many veteran actors agreed to do this film for almost free, is incredible. They donated their work to charity, effectively. The budget for this film was just $3.5M, but it still had Jeremy Irons, Demi Moore, Stanley Tucci, Zachary Quinto (who had already played Spock), Simon Baker, Kevin Spacey (before he was disgraced), etc.
I served in the military for almost 20 years. The way Jeremy Irons runs this meeting is exactly how senior officers run these type of meetings. Every detail even when he asks what is going on and asking for advice. Even the part when he says your talking to me. Such a well put together scene. Great movie.
Maybe this sort of calm confident talk is copied from the military. I worked on a trading desk for 8 years and none of my bosses ever showed such calm. Infact the motto was that if youre calm and aure of yourself, you're not carrying enough risk. 😂
@@kth6736 Except that the Fed bailed out the banks in 2009, also in 1998 (with $3.5 billion for Long Term Capital Management). And of course the New Deal was bailout of the entire economy from the Great Depression, which was triggered by the collapse of a Wall Street that had experienced a huge bubble fueled buying stocks on margin, i.e., with loans. So they have been bailed out and yes, time after time.
@@broheme8922 I mean, you're right, but I think you're looking too deep into it lol. It's not that hard to make distraught gestures and expressions without speaking.
Yea at that moment he was probably aware they knew this was a problem and they were part of the problem and him saying 'youre speaking to ME" is like you two aren't going to bully him
The look over is a serious power move that’s also remarkably nuanced for them to direct and capture in this scene. The attention to detail is fantastic. I’ve sat in many of these rooms and this is exactly how it goes.
It is also his way of telling the analyst Sullivan here that he is protected from retribution of his nominal superiors, so he can speak freely without repercussion.
Tuld, what an incredible character. You can spot small things like when Sullivan replies 'Sort of' and he repeats it, you can tell that vague answer slightly aggravated him. This is a man who deals in absolutes and expects complete clarity when being spoken to. When Sullivan also says the music is slowing and he later says 'I don't hear a thing', hes playing the game steps ahead of everyone
Yeah totally agree. And the way he 100% understands the severity of the problem immediately and screams ‘this is it!!’ - he’s only been briefed about 60 seconds ago !
@@ajwebb220587 He's known about the potential problem for quite awhile. Peter just pulled the alarm, notifying Tuld (and more to the point, the other partners) that the smoking excrement pile in the basement has just flared into an open blaze and the blaze is now racing up the elevator shafts into the executive suits.
He understood the problem before the meeting ever started, he probably understood it months ago. He was waiting for this to happen and his job is/was to make as much money as possible for the company while getting out before it went sour. He knew everything beforehand - the problem, the solution, the repercussions, and the personalities involved. In the end, he got exactly what he wanted. That's why he earns the big bucks.
It aggravated him but he is a fair manager - he realizes that there’s a limit he can rely on an associate like Sullivan (who has already exceeded his role) and so he then directs his annoyance to those above Sullivan who failed to see this coming and should have brought it to his attention sooner
Here's the result of having virtually no cost on locations, sets, special effects or costumes. You get to hire at least four A-list actors and create incredible scenes like this.
+ bigmaxy07 --> I agree totally. No special effects, no overpowering musical score. Just dialogue that actually advances and tells the story in a very entertaining and comprehensive way. Along with actors and actresses that keep you riveted to what they are saying.
The smile on Irons' face after he says, "it wasn't brains that got me here, I can assure you of that" is perfect. It's a very tricky smile. Whoever put this cast together is a genius.
Thanks go to the actors themselves, many of them top tier actors, who weren't paid well for this low budget movie, but made it because they thought it was important.
My favorite part is when Carmelo says “It’s done”. That confidence and that assurance to the boss is probably why the boss asks him to find Eric Dale cause he knows Carmelo will deliver.
@@masukuma Yes, it was. But from what I remember, it was not clearly shown if he really did go with them or chose to stick to his ego and deny going with them. It was left to us. I chose to believe he did not, haha.
@@TheAdarshMehta he went with them after they threatened his options. he earned $176,471 an hour to sit with Sarah in a room as the events of the firesale took place.
The look on Tuld's face upon learning that his senior managers had dismissed the one individual who possessed unparalleled insight into the situation, except perhaps for himself, is priceless. He is acutely aware of the reasons behind their decision, yet as a CEO striving to rescue his company, he also feels an overwelming sense of disappointment in their immature behavior. They can't even manage to handle that aspect correctly while he wasn”t there and the manner in which he overrules their decision and demands his presense is just another display of him completely dominating the room by gestures alone.
The CEO is not concerned about the firing but more about the information leak from Eric Dale, if he gets in contact with some other entity. They were all making good money but knew it would not last long. Eric Dale was fired because he wanted to stop risky behaviour, but others still wanted to make money. The problem with Eric Dale was, he could not figure out exactly, how much risk the company was in. He did not have a concrete model. This is where Sullivan came in, and provided an exact solution. The result was that, if they don't deal with this immediately, the upcoming loss would be insurmountable.
@@saurabh1087yes and no. When you lose a job like this you usually are not allowed to talk about what you did or things that are going on. The firing of Eric Dale was kind of personal by Demi Moores character which is why the President and CEO were out of the loop. The CEO was hedging his bet. True he does not want Eric Talking but he also wants all hands on deck. If he needs Eric during the last day he has him.
@@MTMT7777 That only applies for things like being pushed by a competitor. These guys just realized that if Eric Dale is allowed to, the federal government has electron microscope images of the most disgusting segments of their corporate colon. He can release basically anything to the IRS or SEC and tell them exactly what accounts, funds, and projects to look at to inflict maximum damage.
nah dont be naive. tuld dont give a damn on these kind of things but money. and eric is just a piece of chess to give clarity into this crisis and to shut his mouth while they sold off all the stocks. the fact u'd watched this movie and still thinks these higher ups care about the company? really ? the company and its structure are merely a facade, a money making tool. paul bethany emphasized exactly that early in the movie. none of them are immature. all of them knew this shit was going to happen sooner or later but they just kept the money running in for as long as they can. tuld, baker, moore they all "knew". now this meeting is just a show, a display so to speak. they already know what's coming and it was determined long ago that they would resort to selling all these trash stocks. it's just a matter of time. the only "immature" guy here is kevin spacey who still hold to ethics ground.
@@Duzz14 I thought of it more as man who understands that being charming, likeable, and absolutely ruthless is what has got him ahead, and he says as much later in the scene. He understands that ability and brains are important but knowing people and how a market acts is much more important than being smarter. That's why he earns the big bucks. His job is part fortune teller, part axe man, part being the face of the company.
Can we take a moment to truly appreciate how majestic these actors are? The whole movie? No soundtrack to underpin tensions and emotions. Only great actors and spectacular dialogues.
This is technically true, there is however a sound track used in movies like this which can't be heard they way we are used to hearing sounds, the sound is a low pitch noice which slightly irritates the body to cause tension, its not harmful but that's how a lot of 'soundless' scene create the dramatic effect, combine with great acting.
@@hmbpnz I just like how subtle but impactful the character was. Kind of like an extension of Iron's power. The whole movie gives heft to every level of management they move up, and by the time it gets to Iron's it feels like they summoned an ancient creature of vast power lol Carmelo's absolute assurance reflects the standards Iron requires of those in his circle.
I want to point out 2 things in the dynamics here: Sam is the only one in the room challenging the CEO and using Tuld's first name. This tells a lot about his standing and also about their relationship. The exchange is excellent: At first it is "Mr. Tuld", "Mr. Sullivan", "Mr. Rogers", "Ms. Robertson", with only Tuld using "Jared", "Sam", "Ramesh", in contrast to Sam who speaks up and just says "But John..."; and then "I understand." - "Do you?" - DO YOU!!??". Compare this with the other people keeping their heads down, not wanting to be in the line of fire. Secondly, Sam is the only one in the room dressed in an old school way. Look at his type of suit. The fit is different from modern suits, his got stripes, his shirt got stripes; his younger opponent has the cookie-cutter modern corporate ladder outfit. Whoever put this together clearly knows such meetings really well and how "high finance" personalities carry themselves and what the dynamics can be between them.
Very astute, sir. Yes, there are layers in this scene as there are in any good piece of drama. What bothered me was Jeremy Irons who, although right for the role, over-emoted at times. I can't see a seasoned, deep-pockets CEO losing his shit like that in a company meeting.
@@BigBri550 I haven't been to any such meetings but I have read both Jobs and Gates biographies and they were known to be often rude in such meetings when somebody challenged them.
@grafficacma I've seen rudeness and stubbornness in meetings, but people in charge tend to keep a lid on their outburst levels. In this case, I felt like Jeremy Irons just wanted some hot sauce on a few of his lines. Hard to say, though - maybe the director wanted it up a notch in those parts. I don't know.
Love how Jeremey Irons goes to the youngest person in the room, to get an answer that is less "dressed". I've been in meetings, and seen this done. Its very real.
I've been the youngest person in a board meeting and had this done to me. A question that should have gone to the executive leading my department was instead addressed directly to me. I answered as plainly and honestly as I could, but it was nerve wracking. I thought I was being tested or something, turns out the board member who asked it really just wanted a straight answer without any fluff.
@@nickc3856 I had it done to me a few times in my 20's (I'm 60 now) I was the guy who prepped all the number slides , so same role as the guy in the film clip. My boss stopped taking me to the meeting . When I got to be the "boss" I always aimed to know more about the numbers than the person who compiled them.
It's true that most CEO's aren't brainboxes, but rather excellent decision makers. The CEO in this scene admits he doesn't know as much as others. He efficiently gathers information from the smart employees around him, synthesizes it, and then makes a his mind up.
Most time they royaly screw up and it's abbandon ship time. Not for the CEO though, they always have excelent recomandations and good friends up there.
It’s pretty realistic actually it’s a little nice addition of your every day life and who you’d meet. That’s why this movie nails everything so well. It feels like the real world
@@Elias-kb6wt I agree with you observation. Not only that, he was in the know, even if he was totally unimportant, the knowledge he possessed could destroy the company so it only makes sense to keep him in the loop until the deals were done. His knowledge was pretty much worthless when they had sold everything, but if he had been kicked out because he wasnt important enough that could really fuck them over. So you keep him there, even if he is totally unimportant and way over his head.
Even leaving aside the dangerous knowledge stuff they could’ve just told him to not say a word to anyone and sent him home for the night. It was clear he barely understood what was happening. Maybe the Paul Bethany also included him in this meeting as a courtesy since the smart analyst was his friend and called him which started off this whole thing
“You will never sell anything to any of those people ever again” “I understand” “Do you?” “…DO YOU!” That just gives me chills. Its eat or be eaten knowing whoever is holding when music stops is done!!!
In the earlier meeting with Jarod, Sam also said “do you” and Sam just confirmed. Seems it gave Sam the strength to say it again to Tuld, but he underestimated him. Beautiful how hierarchy is processed through the scenes all the time…
And John knows damn good and well when the dust settles he will be able to either get those same buyers back or find new ones bc in a later scene he puts it best "we can't help ourselves"
The douchebags on top believe it or not don’t know the meaning of technical jargon. The line is there to show that these douchebags are never as smart as the frontline. The one thing they posses is to take all emotion out of decision making.
This scene is such a masterclass by Jeremy Irons. He's playing the scene as a wolf in sheep's clothing; the way he talks makes it initially seem like he's kind of a detached know nothing who doesn't understand what's going on, and is just trying to figure out what to do, but if you rewatch it a couple times and play close attention, he already knows what the issue is and what the solution is. He's been preparing for this eventuality for some time, the sole purpose of this meeting is for him to convince Sam to do it. He uses affects like malapropisms and asking for things to be explained like he's an idiot, but he knew before the meeting started that "the music had stopped" and they needed to take decisive action to survive. He leads Jared into suggesting to sell by prompting him about being first, and he asks questions he knows the answer to Ramesh in order to prove to Sam that it can be done. If you were in that situation on the board, he's simplified the problem and shown that it can only be solved by taking an action that would otherwise be so distasteful it wouldn't be considered
An iconic scene, one of the best ever deviced and played. As a fomer investment banker I can testify that it so real that you can watch it over an over again like a documentary. It never fails to gives you the thrills about acting and making decisions in investment banking. All actors are fantastic.
The most incredible thing about this scene is that there is absolutely no music to depict such dire situation with incredible decisions taken with so much at stake. The length they went to depict reality is amazing.
3:40 - "You're speaking with me, Mister Sullivan." That simple sentence, while addressed to Sullivan, was actually aimed at the other executives, reminding them who was in charge. Irons does this scene magnificently. He portrays the ruthlessly capable corporate leader perfectly - in control, handling his subordinates with subtlety instead of noise or aggression, listening to everything they say, assimilating their input as the meeting progresses, and making on the spot decisions with the swiftness of an experienced leader.
I have been a stockbroker for nearly 20 years and sold all manner of securities. Unfortunately this movie flies over the head of 3 out of 4 licensed stockbrokers.
@@christansdad That is very interesting. I have been interested in learning about investing in the stock market. Could you give me a good resource to check into where I can learn about that stuff? Thanks so much.
One of the best monologues every by an actor - Jeremy Irons. It's a monologue about assets and numbers and speculative marketing. Something the average man (like me) knows almost nothing about. Irons makes it deep, dark and dramatically relevant. Should get an Oscar just for that.
I never tire of this scene. I've seen the movie several times, but I've revisited this clip many, many times and it never gets old. Veteran actors killing it.
This is my first time seeing the scene (I'll need to watch the full movie now). I love the way they showed Tuld side eyeing the man and woman executives while the younger guy was trying to speak.
Jeremy Irons did such a great job of being absolutely furious under his skin.. Literally teetering on an uncontrolled outburst of rage from the current situation, but doesn't.. Because the character is too smart, and already plotting a way out of it. They don't make them like this much anymore.
Brilliant dialogue, perfect delivery by Jeremy Irons. His character emanates ruthlessness without rudeness, intelligence without pseudo-intellectualism and control of the situation and the people (who aren't sheep themselves) without arrogance. Not a poser, but an Actor. Short, but very tense and powerful scene that has insane rewatchability.
Vantage Point I've known British bankers like him at the time this is taking place. He's portraying your typical Public School (meaning private and expensive) educated Brit, who is very sophisticated on the outside and totally ruthless on the inside. He got into this business but he could have got in any business. He doesn't give a shit about the consequences, but who cares, tomorrow will be another day.
@@binitials I see exposition of the problem - John Tuld is the audience, Jared Cohen is the failed intial attempt at explanation whilst Peter sullivan offers the actual diagnosis. Sam Rogers has the simple solution with Ramesh Shah supporting it mildly and then Sarah Robertson offers hope of the maverick Eric Dale who will come back and win the company.
This Is it's a bit like this. But Eric will only be seating in a nice comfy chair for 12 hours waiting for all shares to be off the books. Then, he'll piss off to Florida to enjoy the sunny weather before Lehman Brothers goes down.
The way the CEO is portrayed is fucking brilliant and a perfect representation of almost every single manager in the finance industry. Natural dominant and threatening but acting friendly, charming and naive on the outside - but one wrong word or action and he will go off like a nuke.
@@gforcedod Yes i work in finance and do presentations for the high management. As long as you do your job they wont eat you for breakfast and are generally cool.
0:48 - That subtle sigh from Kevin Spacey just shows how he knows that Jared is about to start a pointless technical explanation of the situation, when a more pragmatic and practical approach is required at this stage. Incredible little details like this make this film a masterpiece
I also like that Mr Tuld picks up on the fact that Sullivan feels intimidated by his bosses (3:37) during his explanation and says, " 'you're speaking with ME' Mr Sullivan" and give them a warning glare. He wants a direct, unvarnished account of the company's problems.
What I like the most about this scene is the fact that Mr. Tuld already knows what happened and what he wants to do about it. He is leading the meeting in the direction he wants and making his subordinates tell him what he wants to hear in a very persuasive way. When he refers to the music being over, he lets everyone know that he has more information than everyone. And when he gets Cohen and Rogers to say that they should sell everything and how they are going to do it, he already had it in his head before entering the meeting...that's badass..
He was, he was letting music play as long as someone else notice what's wrong, it is covered in two others seen, one in elevator where the guy and the lady discuss whose going to be the scape goat and the lady says she had informed about this to him, another scene where kevin and John are in a room and Kevin says 'obviously you are operating with more information than i have' , this is a gem of a movie everytime you watch it you discover something new about the scene which was
He's an efficient businessman. Ethically, selling stuff you know has no value in order to save the company while screwing over the buyers, is more than a little murky.
@@HastyElderHaman It has value. Not all the mortgages in a given bunch will go bad. In fact, most will pay off. But enough will likely fail that the price they are selling at is a BIG risk. That is assuming that the staff are actually right in their guesses about the future. Remember, at this time NO ONE knew that the market would go belly up. Most indicators were that everything was hunky dory.
"Lord knows we've relied enough on mr. Sullivan tonight." The line, the look and the smile from Tuld and Peter Sullivan knows he doesnt have to worry about his career anymore.
He gave them a head start to offload all the shit, he should expect a fat bonus at the end of the day and a promotion to the top floor. Or to retire and come back as a consultant charging obscene amounts per hour/
@@swangelok I mean, at the end of the movie it's shown that Jared's personally bringing Peter up to the Executive's Lounge, where Sam and Tuld are having a meal. And considering they just let two of the highest ranking people in Risk Management go... (Eric and Robertson) Well, there's a few seats that need filling, just saying.
For a good portion of those meetings Sullivan doesn't realize he is the smartest person in the room, but the CEO could tell and knew they would need him in the times ahead (the other execs knew it too, but their reaction was more along the lines oh sh*t this kids background makes what he's saying indisputable and unable to be spun by them).
"and please, speak as you might to a young child, or a golden retriever. It wasn't brains that got me here I can assure you of that" -one of the best lines in movie history and one that perfectly highlights the difference between entrepreneurs and intelligent people.
well someone like Tuld needs distilled information free of fluff or extraneous babble, because he doesn't have the luxury of time, he needs to make his decisions quickly and without hesitation.
To understand that line you have to include the scene right before they go into the room, where Cohen looks at the others and tells them to be completely honest and sugar-coat nothing... because "nobody here is smart enough".
But then you see later he is quite intelligent, as he rattles off the list of financial crises over history as he eats lunch (the "it's just money" scene). And of course he is a step ahead of everyone in the room but needs to get them on board with dumping those assets right away. He is more than an entrepreneur or a Cassandra for the market; he has cunning and manipulation skills too.
All the cast were exceptional but Jeremy Irons really steals the show. His character is absolutely believable. When he says "talk to me like you would a small child ..." it has multiple layers - he's disarming and seemingly humble but you sense his strength and mastery of his position.
Simon Baker is amazing in this movie. The way he points, doesn't answer, just stares, and keeps slightly ducking responsibility before finally saying 'sell it'
I think there's more to it. If you watch the first meeting Bakers' character is already thinking about selling it all (asking how long it would take under normal conditions to sell it, how many traders there are).
fred fredburger yes but it shows how amazing he is in this movie... but the casting in this movie is superb. Everyone is great and on the top of their game.. I watched this scene many times and each times I discover a new thing, a look, an intonation, a pose and it adds more to this amazing scene.
in corporate talk, its called managing upwards - he does so with extreme finesse, allowing his boss to arrive at the same conclusion as he did hours ago, and the moment he senses the time is right... BAM! he's the first one to speak up. and we all know the significance of being "the first" in this film :)
Irons acting is so amazing. He is so calm, confident and collected until 8:45 where for brief seconds he subtly shows the panic, but quickly regroups and works his plan. It feels like you are in the board room.
Love the moment when Irons says firmly: “You’re talking to me, Mr Sullivan.” Cuts straight through the chain-of-command bullshit which too often is used threateningly by managerial deadwood to prevent the rank & file from informing upper management of company problems unsolved and unaddressed.
This is a point I've been thinking a lot about recently, in light of current political discourse. The reason autocratic systems inevidably fail is because nobody is ever willing to give the boss bad news, for fear their displeasure will come down on them. This only allows problems to grow and compound, untill the whole thing collapses.
I took it as a double meaning: "You're speaking to me" = You don't have to filter it through these intermediary bosses. "You're speaking to me" = Speak it plainly because I'm not a math nerd.
Market Capitalization is just the current price of a share of the company's stock x the total number of share outstanding, which is usually millions / billions of shares. Example: Microsft has a Market Capitalization today of a little over $3 Trillion ($407 / share * 7.434 Billion shares)
I love that he doesn't have to play at being the smartest in the room. He wants everyone to understand how dire their situation is without using vernacular.
Not exactly, but yes it's a great story. It's _loosely_ based on the Lehman Bros debacle of 2008. The scriptwriter even took the liberty of naming Irons' character "Tuld" after Lehman CEO Dick Fuld. 🤣 The BIG difference is that Fuld was told by scores of people under him and at Treasury to dump Lehman's toxic mortgage-backed bonds and sell his firm at a reasonable price. But Fuld was far too selfish and greedy to do that at the prices he was offered that first week of Sept 2008 and prior. Then, at the last minute on the 2nd weekend after the heads of all the other major US wire houses met with Treasury chief Hank Paulson, Fuld wanted to broker a deal with a Japanese bank which had shown interest in buying Lehman. But it was too late; that bank had lost interest because Lehman's stock had fallen so precipitously fast, and they were rightfully scared that the toxic assets were worth even less than the book value Lehman had assigned them. So instead of drafting a letter of intent to sell, Lehman counsel had to finish that weekend preparing the largest bankruptcy filing in history; basically over 25,000 employees lost their jobs the next day (9/15/08). Wall Street went into a panic, and the stock market into a tailspin that took years to recover from. TLDR -- Had Dick Fuld done what fictional Tuld did (sell the toxic assets off in pieces before the rest of the market knew how bad they really were), OR sold Lehman earlier, the company might have survived in some form, many of those jobs likely would've been saved, and perhaps the financial crisis wouldn't have been as bad as it turned out to be.
@@Sharky165 It's actually not based on Lehman. The name similarity makes it confusing. This is actually based on Goldman Sachs (the first firm out the door). They did exactly what happened later that morning.
You notice so many little things in this scene the more you watch - a small facial expression here, an uncomfortable body movement there - that you realize just how much depth there is to it all. At 4:37 for example, in three or four lines of dialogue, this scene tells us so much. Consider: 1. Tuld comes right out and says the music is about to stop, and we're all gonna be left holding the bag. 2. The inexperienced junior analyst who's never seen this situation play out before tries to reassure him that the music hasn't stopped yet, it's just slowing down. If the music were to stop, that'd be a complete disaster. 3. As he explains this, Sam leans back, like he knows exactly where this is going. A young buck who doesn't see the whole picture, and the ruthless CEO who is about to put a full stop to this whole conversation. He's known Tuld for almost four decades and can see a moment like this coming. 4. The scene cuts to Tuld with an almost parental like smirk on his face. He gets the chance to explain how this all works to the young guy, not to Sam, not to Cohen, or anyone who will bring any baggage to the situation. His response silences the room.
For #4, just a quick thing: it's the nose grab/sniff and finger tapping on the table for me. How would you even direct that? It just gives a little oomph in this character. I'm not even sure what it conveys beyond his comfort in this meeting, but at the same time he's infinitely more human and real because of it. I love it
@@yair1010 I have seen the movie atleast 10-12 times. This scene for more than 20+ times. I have learned the subtleties of dominance and power play in an corporate environment. How jeremy irons use eye contact as an acknowledgement, empathy and use hard stare as a form of dominance. How kevin spacey's character subtly assures his employee to be confident. How to acquire information in decision making by downplaying one's ability while maintaining reputation. How to establish hierarchical dominance and send the signals of fairness even though Iron's character is an amoral one. How to simplify a complex topic and present it well to layman through analogies and facts. Look at the eye contact, hear the voice and feel the tension. This scene is masterpiece.
The beauty of this movie is that you could just have them all sitting in one room for two hours and the suspense would be larger than any action scene imaginable. And that all without a soundtrack. Great actors. Great writing and directing.
@@elvisenyiaka5890 yep they defo had them shadowing someone for months learning the lingo, "fill or kill" line i had to laugh, like in wolf of Wall Street "first person to speak loses" can tell they done some work or the whole Glen Gary Ross rant at the manager
@@sew_gal7340 but my favorite saying "buyers are liars" Oh I forgot bout the morning meeting in "cars" (not that cartoon) because everyone was laughing cos its funny on its own but I was laughing because its exactly how it happens 🤣
Wisdom is acknowledging the smartest person in the room, and relying on their expertise. John explained that himself, when asking Sullivan to dumb it down for him.
This is exactly how CEO's behave on meetings. It's a great advice to anyone, when meeting someone on that level, remember to be clear, no sugarcoat, and answer to the best of your ability. They are there to make decisions, and will take everything you say seriously and will challenge you upon it. Terrific scene, for sure!
As a 30+ yr veteran in the financial industry at the highest level, and having faced the 2008 crisis and the Lehman meltdown head on, I can tell everyone that this scene, this movie, magnificently portrayed the reality, angst, and intellect of the participants. Just an incredible depiction of reality.
"sir, if those assets decrease by just 25% and remain in our books, that loss would be greater than the current market capitalization of this entire company", the end
While John is ruthless, he actually made good on everyone by letting them get a golden parachute to soften the blow. In the downfall he enriched the very people that destroyed their own livelihood. This speaks volumes of his ability to create value out of "odorous excrement". A true genius.
Yeah just get that 90+ sale percentage. No biggie. It's the oldest trick in the book. If they get those over 90 percent sales done, he makes hundreds of millions. They get a few millions spread across them. If they don't get the 90+ percentage, he still gets paid like crazy, and the sellers are fucked.
sorry but why should we be swimming in bad financial ideas tomorrow? can you please explain? i don't know this movie but i watched the big short and the only bad idea i see is to do what all those bankers did when they got greedy and gave mortgages to virtually everybody
@@silasmaurer7835 Very few banks were involved in giving out those sub-prime mortgages. It was mostly predatory lenders like Steve Mnuchin's now bankrupt mortgage company. And they all walked away with huge amounts of money.
This scene is perfect, I have been in very uncomfortable meetings before with directors and senior management, Jeremy Irons is amazing here how accurately he portrays as the senior head in the meeting. Asking questions of which he already knows the answers too, he understands the pack that was created will be filled with cooperate bs, his job is to find the problem and tackle it ASAP, not sitting reading through a booklet for hours whilst everyone in the room have and should have already done so. That is why he is asking the questions, ensuring that everyone is on the same page, testing people to see if they are on their toes or not. Its discreet but its noticeable, he directs his questions to people he knows that SHOULD have the answer. He simply has not fell into his very senior role out of luck, he knows the game inside-out, the reason he wanted things in 'plain english' was to, again, understand the core problem to the mess they have found without time wasting any longer, and to get everyone there up to speed with his mindest and plan of approach. By far one of the best scenes I have seen, the tension in the air is so intense, them slight blips of silence in conversation is what is great too, so accurate yet so understanding of how these are conducted. Everyone their is on their A game. Great film.
@@Wildlander I feel you make some really good points here, "incompetent CEOs" very much exist with respect to "entitlement and good business decisions" but I'm going to have to disagree with your overarching thesis here, that this is the case at large a lot of this "incompetence" you highlight is from the perspective of the stakeholders and the customers (and even management). But from the persepective of the Board and or the Shareholders this might not be the case. Sometimes the CEO is there as a fall guy for PR. Sometimes they are there to come in and fix a problem. sometimes they are there to ensure the problem produces the optimum results (sociopolitical plays) Look at Banking Sector disparities aftermath in 2008 for the premier example of this. how much of the time, i can not be certain. what i am certain of, however: is that the majority of CEOs are capable thinkers and leaders communicators. it would be far more accurate to say by and large CEOs have their sht together and can be counted on to keep sht together...but there exists some, for a multitude of different reasons, who don't have the chops, ethical or capable or otherwise to hold that seat.
I should clarify that I am speaking about what I have personally witnessed in tech - a sector in which I would still wager that the majority of CEO's actually are pretty shite. I am curious as to how you can "certainly" conclude this is not the case for other sectors, but I don't know enough myself to refute it
@@Wildlander remember, my contention was that "the majority of CEOs are inept" i do not discount your experiences or your claims on the basis of this, rather, on the frequency of this. in the truly private sector - the one not involving politics...actually, let me put it this way, in the private sector that has consequences for failure, both capitally and socially, you will find a high degree of competence. im not saying it's only this way, but the relationship between Tech and government, is not unlike that of Finance and government, which means many of those Executives are playing a different game entirely than what a CEO of let's say a a Soap Company or a Grocery Store Chain Real Estate and Oil and "Any Task Contracting" are other sectors that have very questionable interests that is all to say: you're right. I cannot guarantee it. I would however bet on it with a lot of confidence
Same. I am a management consultant and I have witnessed the same dynamics in board rooms and senior management or directors meetings…excellent screenplay.
As a retired USMC officer, I’ve been in meetings like this where the Commanding General sits at the head of huge table and we Colonels are getting grilled by the Old Man. I loved it!
When I was an E4 I sat in on a meeting after an FTX where all the senior NCO's and officers were giving glowing reports of how well the training went. The general asked my assessment and I made it perfectly clear that his ammo section spent 2 weeks digging holes and filling sandbags and never once worked around ammo or did any real ammo related training. I further clarified that if the unit was activated he better not expect anyone in the ammo section to be proficient in our job because our only chance at real training had been wasted for the entire FTX. 2 things happened after that. Heads rolled and training improved for the ammo section.
and the exasperated look he gives to Sarah at 9:24 - assuming he was looking at Jared ('we are trying to locate him'), his eyes then shift one person further (to Demi) upon hearing the news that Eric was no longer with the firm
Because he knows that Mr Sullivan has more brains then anyone at the table. The man is literally a rocket scientist, no one can top that and it's just sheer luck that they happend to stumble across it. They are big but it's obvious they aren't the biggest fish in the pond. There are bigger fish out there with even bigger brains on their payroll, they just happend to find out first.
See, I gave you a thumbs up but respectfully disagree, in that, while Irons performance is, as always, stellar, so is everyone else's, in this movie. Spock is stellar, Spacey is great, Tucci, Pettany, Moore, all top notch.
It is insane how the actor Jeremy overwhelmed and pretty much shadowed everyone in the room with his character. The sheer charismatic he displayed is amazingly hunting.
What an actor Jeremy Irons is. You get him a 9 mns scene and the film has another dimension. I got to know this type of bankers in London. Behind their courteous appearance, they're made of steel.
I worked in finance for +10 years, this is my favorite finance movie till today. Beautifully and so realistically interpreted by charisma actors! A pure joy to watch.
@@eTengu They're so different. Apples to Oranges. Big Short is for more of the general population to understand the crisis. Margin Call is more of a dark drama that just dives right in and expects the audience to know a bit about finance or the crisis of 08.
Between 3:30 and 3:52 is the most brilliant small tone acting anyone might see in a long long time. He notices the advisor making side eye contact as if to a boss on to the wolves left of court, Irons draws his gaze back to him and states that he’s the only person in the room. Irons then looks at the wolves to catch heir deceptions. Immaculate work. Spacey is an example here of art not being removed by personal life action. We cannot remove the beauty from a price of work once we’ve let it go. As an artist, no one can take away his gift.
This is a marterclass Tuld knew exactly what had to be done - "sell it all, Today" But actually led the coversation to it while letting others sink in what was about to happen And then finally makes Jared say the words And at the moment Jared shows why is at such a senior position at a young age He didn't look at anyone except for Tuld, was concise, spoken with a firmness and no hesitation. Edit : And the very next moment Tuld asks Sam if that was even possible His answer could have been a simple "Yes" But he adds in "at what cost?" That is a contrast to Jared's character, Sam is also older and worked for the firm for a much longer time. So this moments show why he isn't sitting at Jared's place But that "at what cost?" Shows he had a little bit of integrity left after all those years in the business. So there comes the duality of being righteous or doing what needs to be done So in a crunch situation, duality in character would never lead to anything. Do what needs to be done But then Sam stand up and tells exactly what needs to be done in terms of trades Shows why he is the head of trading, technically Will is, but it is Sam
One gets the feeling that Jeremy Irons' character arrives already knowing exactly what has to happen, but guides the discussion in a way that conveys that understanding to the other Partners.
yea, its clear he already knows the situation, and is prepared for this day. having sullivan simplify for a child or a dog is to ease everyone else who's tired and pissed into what he's about to order and why his actions and reasoning are justified
This definitely makes sense. I think irons is impressed with Mr. Sullivan as he caught the issue (finally), but come on.....Irons knows its been a house of cards for the last few years, computer models or not. He alludes to this in his steak scene with Kevin Spacey too....its basically a market correction that comes every 15 to 20 years. It was really a matter of time by insuring crap mortgages, world economy crash, Ukraine & hyper inflation, 911, student loan defaults, Covid.....any of these can trigger a larger market correction.
When the exec secretary greets Cohen & Sam in the scene before this, she tells Cohen "He's waiting for you" - so yeah, Cohen briefed Tuld then as a follow up to his initial phone call during the 2:15am meeting.
@Некто в Сером Makes a lot of sense. The CEO even hints at it when he says "what is it you THINK you have STUMBLED on". So hes basically implying he knew what was going on all along.
One of the most underrated movies of the 21st century. It didn't do so well at the box office because it lacked car chases, explosions, and murder. Most people don't understand the impact of the securitization of mortgage-backed securities and its role in the 2008 financial crisis. Not very exciting for the typical moviegoer, but I found it exhilarating, well written, and outstanding acting especially by Jeremy Irons. I've never seen Irons in a bad movie.
Joye D - This is not the kind of movie that appeals to most of the general movie-going public, don't you know. I literally had never heard of it until another RU-vidr I listen to recommended it. I found it very interesting because I know next to nothing about the world of finance. I remember telling a an old boyfriend of mine back in the late '80's that most movie-goers like action-packed movies with lots of dazzling explosions, pyrotechnics, and half-clothed women. Movies like Margin Call appeal only to more cerebral individuals who like to think while being entertained.
Underrated? Watch by almost nobody? Sure. It's just not the kind of movie that is going to draw lots of people or make a lot of money, in a sense the movie is boring, it takes place essentially over the course of one day and it's all just a lot of talking, not really what many people want in a movie. However if you want to get a small idea of what the hell happened it's an amazing movie.
rjh00 Back to the original point, your argument does not clarify the issue, what you just described as boring, is anything but that to me. Movies like this are the reason I watch movies. This, big short and miss sloane id say is the best in this genre.
The mortgage backed securities was just the match that lit the crisis ---- this was not the problem, the problem was when the repo markets seized. Repo markets are what run the world and this is what was what the bankers were really afraid of --- nobody was willing to give anyone over night credit and this would have shut down ALL OF WORLD COMMERCE. Reason why no banks were willing to extend credit is because these derivatives are all opaque and no bank knew the exposure any other bank had to this toxic mortgage backed securities thus they would not lend to each other. This is why FED and other central bankers has to flood markets with liquidity. Guess what?? These markets have never functioned properly since and when the next crash comes -- it will stop commerce. Bankers are nothing but dressed up smart criminals --- they have brought havoc and pain and suffering on the world for centuries (they are behind every war and almost every crisis) ---- IT IS TIME THIS STOPS. Block Chain tech will reduce back to what they should be a well regulated utility. BANKERS ARE SCUM BAGS --- no if, buts or whats --- SCUM BAGS.
I remember when I saw the news that the People who owned my mortgage, Lehman Brothers went under. The next months were a roller coaster ride. This movie and specially The Big Short remind me of alot of things i went through back then.
I've watched this scene a dozen times and it never gets old because ALL of the actors are AMAZING. Someone called this a "masterclass" in acting, and it is. They all harmonized and were so brilliant. This is the stuff movies are made of!!!
@@seppoisomuna You've hit on something I've believed for about 2 decades. Never bought many VHS back in the day (or even CDs when they first came out) because the re-watchability wasn't enough for me. When it looked like DVDs would stick around, I bought a few of my favorite movies. But even then I generally don't watch them all the way through. I'll watch my favorite scenes only, just to relive the most compelling part of the film and it takes me back to the first time I watched it. Thank you for mentioning this.
I love the pacing in this scene. The details are unfolded one by one, and the emotional pitch gradually rises and then reaches a crescendo at the 9 minute mark (Jeremy Irons barking "This is it!"). I once read that the mark of bad script (or bad direction, or simply bad acting) is that the characters speed from normal to hysterical in just a few sentences. By contrast, this scene has a slow upward arc of revelation, emotion and even decibel level. When the punch comes, it's perfect.
There are so many small details in this scene that make it brilliant... like when Jeremy Irons goes out of his way to shake the older gentleman John's hand at 0:16 when he enters the room. John is probably a senior board member, a partner emeritus, who commands Irons' respect in a way no one else does.
One of the best moments is when Irons asks "Sullivan" for his opinion. Sullivan looks over to the two honchos (Demi and the other guy), Irons sees that Sullivan is intimidated by them, and says directly to Sullivan, "You're speaking to me." He then keeps focused on Sullivan but after a few seconds casts a sideways glance at Demi and the guy as if to say "knock it off." I don't know if that level of detail was in the script, but if not, it shows how deep Irons was into this.
@@richardiredale4375 Thats my favorite bit too, it shows how theres no time/room for bullshit. The CEO wants to find and make the best decision ASAP or heads will roll
It's a masterclass in controlling the pacing of a scene (with a noble assist from a good director and editor). I watch it over and over like listening to a good song.
“Get me Eric Dale here by 6”. I love the delivery of this line. For the entire movie everyone’s been trying to hunt him down to no avail. Yet Irons is so powerful and has such unlimited resources it’s not even a question of if he’ll be able to find him but how quickly. So awesome.
Peter begins by saying “Well, sir…” instead of being a butt-kisser by saying something cutesy like well I’m sure that isn’t true ha, ha. That would’ve gotten him a death stare.
The issue is do you pawn it off on someone else one at a time where it hurts them but doesn't kill them or do you hold on to all of them while they literally kill you.
@bigbulbk Sell it. Just don't cry and act the victim if your customers find out you knew it was shit when you sold it to them, and don't act all indignant when customers want to install shit-detecting technology in your store.
I've watched this scene a hundred times and I still notice brilliant little details and gestures. Today it's Sam looking at Ramesh when he says "Even if we manage to pull that off - which is saying something," like he's grabbing a reinforcement for his argument that he knows is there, and Ramesh just gives a helpless "he's completely right" shrug with his hands. The little gestures that speak so loudly in a room full of real pros working together. And right after it, when Sam says "You will kill the market, for years. It's over," Tuld's shrug says "Yes, it's going to be catastrophe, and it'll be because of me, and that's not cool. Oh well. Gotta do what we gotta do."
I think my favorite part of this movie is how it depicts the management ladder in business. With Sam being the exception, each person is very confident in dealing with their peers or subordinates but once they have to deal with a superior they become much less confident and more careful of what they say. The most notable example of this to me is how confident and in control Jared is during the first meeting that takes place before this one compared to the very meek "okay" he gives when Tuld tells Jared to speak to him in plain English when explaining the situation. Also I love how the higher up you go in management the less they understand how to get to the numbers but more what they mean and what to do with them.
Most companies are like this. When you have a company, you hire proffessionals who understand and develop what you can't do. As a higher-up your goal is to set objectives and lead your team to them. Jeremy Iron perfectly shown that prinicple in this scene.
I agree with your assessment of the higher up you go in management the less leaders understand the tactical or day-to-day application of the numbers/information... but the more meaningful and strategic they can be with that information.
@@Ironborn4 Sam is perhaps older then some of the people in the room, and has been at the firm for longer, which can help; with age and experience often comes more self-assurance. On a selfish level, he probably also enjoyed watching Jared crap his pants, and sees an opportunity to present himself well, as if he should be doing Jared's job.
Sam is pretty much the oldest and most experienced in the room except perhaps to Tuld. Unfortunately he knows so much and yet he's stuck on a respectable senior position yet he's not so called "a big guy" in the firm. That knowledge and experience puts him in a comfortable position alongside his peers. He's so valuable that when shit hits the fan, he's gonna be the one of the last out of the firm just like what happened in the end of the film.
Damn, Jeremy Irons at 1:20 is brilliant: "It wasn't brains that got me here, I can assure you of that." With the friendly smile, and at the same time the ticking with the paper, he comes across amicably, yet very threatening. Damn good.
Harmen Breedeveld made even better by the scene just before this where they are all warned not to sugar coat, just give it to him straight because none of them are smart enough to pull it off, including the rocket scientist.
yeah that sentence is actually quite menacing in a way. because he is implying obviously it's other qualities that got him there. and it leaves people wondering what could that be.... he says it's his timing the markets but it's obviously not that. The top executives all got the jobs because they are dirty knives. in a dirty business like investment banking you need dirty knives to do dirty work.
@@maxdecphoenix and your point? i don't care a damn what he does in his private life. if the law puts him in prison fine. if not i don't give a shit as he's an awesome actor and i'd like to see more of him.
I didn't realize but in the first meeting about the problem Keven Spacey's character makes the same argument to the Mentalist, and the Mentalist says "I understand." Kevin Spacey asks "Do you?" and the Mentalist just says "I do."
It was more like, now I know who to blame. He just had to figure out which one. Once he heard Peter's boss was let go and no one can find him, he knew Demi's the one to axe.
A virtuoso performance from Jeremy Irons. Every word, every gesture, every change in rhythm, every inflection, every cadence says “I’m in charge. “. And darn good work from everyone else.
![Margin Call (2011) - Senior Partners Emergency Meeting [HD 1080p] (Re-Upload / Audio Fixed)](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
