Man, 48.25 is an incredible deal. Vladikynas 48.25 was the second best time in 400m for years after kochs 47.60. Ill tell you something; runnig under 11 sec in 100m, 22 sec in 200m and 49 in 400m is not possible without using drugs. Check Grit Breuer from GDR in Split (European Championships 1990). She ran over 49 and she was full of steroids. Perec can be your idol but it doesnt mean shes clean.
Just because she run in 47 sec doesn't mean it would get more impossible for anyone else. Or are you saying that if it weren't for her, we would have lots of sub-48 runners today?
she wont even get close!! she is amazing talent and when she finally goes to 400 she will be a great but she will never run 47.60 i dont think anyone ever will again with out drugs.
I absolutely agree with you I haven't studied her so you're right..I do know that the world record holder have never failed the drug test ever.. and they were testing back then vigorously... But I have to study that second place I think she ran 47.9
@@afrobuddy4801 It’s funny because people always say Bolt’s era was the most doped (which imo is bs) but will hype up records from the 80’s which is easily the most doped up era.
@@SoulSociety404 Ben Johnson fans Bolt is a doper!!! And so is his partner Yohan Blake! Also Ben Johnson fans GOOOOO BEN BEN IS THE FASTEST ATHLETE OUT THERE AND IF HE EXISTED IN THIS TIME HE WOULD RUN 9.25 CELEBRATING
@@afrobuddy4801 the wikipedia page for marita koch says they unearthed a letter where she was complaining that one of her rivals was getting higher doses of steroids than her. you can't make this stuff up!
It gives me hope that something has actually changed for the better when today's top runners are flat out on the ground for a minute after record runs.
I was trained to stay on my feet. Hands above my head to increase air into lungs. The modern Olympian is just an attention seeker laying on the ground.
Damn, that was some good assed dope they had in the 80's!!! She ran a 400M in full sprint, finished, then had tons of energy to jog even more at the finish line. This record clearly should not exist...not possible to run a 400M clean, especially in full sprint without pacing strategy, and not feel like you're gonna die at the end of the race and for days after!
@@timn4481 please elaborate. By the way, many folks have taken their 100M time down that much…Shericka took her time down in both events even more than FloJo. You may surprise yourself if you look at the annual progression of your favorite athletes today. Also, while it’s obvious 50 lbs of body weight is enhanced, 3 seconds off a 400M is possible if your time isn’t very fast. But, if off world record times, yeah, that wouldn’t make sense.
@@corrrrronaNasser is such a beautiful runner for someone so small has along stride and so relax and elegant . It looks like this record could go after 35 years next year.
47.60s is unreal, even in this day and age of modern science and technology. You hardly hear of any top femaleworld class athlete even going close to 49 seconds in the 400m, let alone 48 seconds.
And how often do you see that? Almost never. Plus, a split of 47.9 converts to a low to mid 48 in the open 400m. You realize this time Koch ran was 1 47.60? That's pretty much unheard of in this current day and age, which is the crazy part because we as humans have advanced as well as our technology and supplements, so yes, his comment was 100% true.
@Se Ou Carried off the track every night will give her guaranteed injuries and over-training both easily ruin a competition prep. But with PEDs, recovery is way faster that maybe the body may actually be able to handle extreme training routine... Not that I am saying she was surely using PEDs but very likely she was :) :)
Koch's 200m world record was broken by an athlete from the same era who Marita used to routinely beat by around 3m in major championship races over the distance - the athletes name? American 'superstar' Flo Jo - who miraculously improved out of all recognition very late in her career to break the 100m and 200m WR's, which still stand - Flo Jo retired almost immediately afterwards, and just prior to the introduction of out of season testing being introduced. Sadly, many utterly deluded Americans to this day will swear on a stack of bibles she was clean when she broke those records! I had a photograph of Flo Jo 2 years before her WR breaking exploits and one at the time she broke those records. And took them into a top London hardcore gym where elite level women bodybuilders trained. Without letting them see Flo Jo's face, i asked them if the woman in the photo's could have changed her physical appearance naturally, through hard weight training and good nutrition. They were adamant her physical change had not been achieved naturally. I said "how can you be so sure?" Because "we have used just about every strength and muscle building PED on the market, and know the side effects/body changes associated with each group of these drugs - she is displaying some of these 'side effects' to the extent that we can actually tell you the specific group/type of PEDs' she has been using!" With women's track records out of reach for even admitted druggies, the WR book needs to be wiped clean. The fairest solution would be to remove every mark set before track and field instituted random drug testing in the wake of the Seoul Olympics. That would get Kratochvilova, Koch, and Flo Jo off the books. Such a move would quickly raise the profile of women's track. Remove Griffith Joyner, and the 100-meter mark would have been broken six times since 1996, by such never-got-their-due athletes as Carmelita Jeter and Frenchwoman Christine Arron, who missed out on meet bonuses and endorsement contracts because they were pursuing an impossible standard. Athletics fans may just have to think of the 1980s in the same way baseball fans think of the late '90s and early '00s-as an era whose achievements don't deserve to be included in a Platonic Book of Records.
It all comes down to nationalities for many. In the eyes of a lot of people their countryman could not be a cheat - yet in the eyes of the unbiased the performances are clearly suspect. National bias.
You are a bitter human being with a wild imagination throwing dirt on people named without facts you must be a Russian or from an island Flo-Jo not even in this race and you wrote all of that nonsense about her..
Koch was obviously on drugs at the time of this race. There are letters she wrote to Jenapharm complaining that she was not getting enough testosterone in the early 80's. Well she must have gotten the right dose in this race. Regardless, Koch was an extremely gifted runner exhibiting near perfect mechanics even from a very early age. She would have smoked her competition even without the drugs. Given her already other-worldly talent, the Oral-Turnibol turned her into a superhuman. Just look at the first 200 meters of this race. She made up the stagger on four of her competitors in about 4 seconds. Just imagine if the Russian girl hadn't been in this race. She would have won by almost 70 meters. That's just crazy. I've taken testosterone and it does make a difference. It just allows you to work and train harder in addition to increasing muscle mass. In woman, the difference is even more drastic. She didn't need the drugs to win and that's a shame.
That was my point. All of the top track athletes in those days were on it. I know Bryzgina was taking something for her to be that close to Koch. It kind of confirms that FloJo was doping also. Watch the 1988 4x400 anchor leg. Bryzgina ended up beating her but for FloJo, who had no experience at that distance to come out run that close to the Olympic Champion, you've got to be taking something.
of course she was obviously on drugs. Since 2000 a sub 49 second time has only happened on 5 occassions and yet she was able to record a time sub 49 seconds 16 times in her career. Complete crap
She was clearly doped, but what’s depressing is that the doping masks the fact that she was clearly a phenomenal runner. Even with steroids, that’s a blistering pace
The stats show that Marita realised 48"97 in Berlin just two weeks before the "WR" 47"60 on the 6 of October 85, and no anti-doping control was made during this world cup. A difference from more than one seconde in two weeks ! Marita is a brillant athlete without drugs, capable of excelents time, but steroÏds is the secret of the world record time.
A lot of people will be pretty far off their tapered time 2 weeks before. You can't just always be in perfect shape and also steroids compound in training, 2 weeks wouldn't do as much as a longer cycle
when you look at pictures of her you can see she has a body like a male sprinter nothing female anymore... all gdr athletes used performance enhancing drugs
Actually I still thinks she looks if not feminine then rather boyish, but then some women are naturally so. If she was on illegal drugs she had a very small dose. If you want to see how steroids can affect a woman's appearance look at Kratochvilova's 800m world record.
@@magischerteufel5734 Sie sind ein Narr. Sie wissen genau, dass Marita Steroide nahm. Das ostdeutsche Team war nichts anderes als eine Organisation für ein Steroidkonsumsystem. Haben Sie jemals den Bericht von Werner Franke gelesen?
@@magischerteufel5734 Ja das stimmt, es waren alle! Sie war definitiv die Beste! Was etwas schade (oder vielleicht auch gut) ist dass solche Zeiten heute nicht mehr zu erreichen sind! Es werden selbstverständlich noch jede Menge Substanzen genommen aber eben nicht mehr diese anabolen Steroide die v.a. Frauen regelrecht transformieren lassen!
The women's track and field records are crazy. Tons of records from the 80's: 100m,200m, 400m, 800m, High Jump, Long Jump,Shot,Discus, and Hept. It's just crazy to think athletes haven't got better in the last 40 years with nutrition and training gains. Occam's razor
+xavier church Kratochvilova's Women's 800m record and Flo Jo's 100m record are in the same category. Obvious dope enhanced bs records. And wind assisted in that last case too.
Today former athletes of East German , who trying to make Jenapharm ( a former state drug pharma) pay for what they have done to them sometimes without knowing and sometimes who even know but they were forced to take steroids , say that Koch was like all the athletes of EG on steroids, and specifically Koch that time was taking massive quantities of oral Turinabol...
It is kinda funny how IAAF has done nothing about the blatant steroid usage that led to all three World records in the 80s. Nobody has even come close to them in nearly 30 years lmao
That will never happen. There's no evidence unfortunately. Plus the IAAF have just inducted Marita Koch into athletes hall of fame so that tells you where they stand on this record. It's going nowhere.
+James Tofflemier #1, not everyone in that race was on drugs Im sure. So, her race is not legitimate. #2, not everyone that competes today is on drugs. So, comparatively, her time today is unfair to women that run fast times today but will never ever reach her time. She was a German science project placed among women.
There'a a reason it still stands today...that first two hundred was impossible and she didn't get tired...HELLO!!!!!!! Perec and Freeman at least looked like they ran an honest race in 96
The fact that there was a bunch of women that went under 48 back in the 80's and 70's but can't today is already suspect. Sanya is the best 400m runner in the world for the pass 6 or 7 years. She is physically superior to those athletes her legs get higher she runs an amazing first 200m but she still can't hit 47 yet.bottom line: THOSE BITCHES WERE JUICED AND THOSE TIMES SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY!
@@JohnSmith-yn9ie Well steroids are used, but they stay in your system a long time. Hence microdosing in smaller amounts is done instead. Still very effective, but not nearly as effective as the east german regimine. You can do more but you WILL be caught these days.
when communism ended in 1989 GDR and 1991 Soviet Union the structure and coaching slowly went down hill. Athletes from the east still doped, but this time they had to do it pretty much on their own and many have got caught such as Kapachinskaya who ran a low 49 in 2011. She had dabbled with Winstrol a few years earlier. Getting caught with Stanazolol in recent times sends a clear message of a very unplanned doping regimen, as it is very easy to detect
Performances in those times didn't have a good doping system and it's been well documented that the East Germans, Russians, and most other eastern Block countries had in-country doping programs that some governments sponsored and some actually administered. The most systematic case of drug use for athletic achievement is that of the East German Olympic teams of the 1970s and 1980s however the program began in the early 1960s. In 1990, documents were discovered that showed many East German female athletes, especially swimmers, had been administered anabolic steroids and other drugs by their coaches and trainers. Girls as young as eleven were started on the drug regimen without consent from their parents. The system was extremely formalised and heavily based on a notion of secrecy. On a performance level, the system was successful. East German athletes were part of the elite and the country achieved successes. However, the doping system negatively affected the health of numerous athletes over time. Its very strict now and they have in-competition and out-of-competition random testing that is done worldwide that has somewhat reduced many athletes from performing those "super-human" performances.
@candymanGR7 Only U.S athletes are clean? Marion Jones? Tim Montgomery? Justin Gatlin? Antonio Pettigrew? Jerome Young? Oh yes what a shining beacon of light the U.S is.
Not entirely true. No one is fresh after 400m. If she wasn´t tired, she wouldn´t have struggled in the last 50m. Just look at the running technique being affected. Of course, in the end, PEDs made her perform better.
Touche! Yes, it would be impossible to determine great performances from drugs than hard training. However, the motive for the idea of possible adjunct records would not be for punishment of Koch, Flo Jo or anyone else; but to make the sport as fair to everyone as possible. Since there is no real way to determine whether the older records are faulty or not, perhaps there is a way to give today's athlete a chance - just in case they are. That way no one loses.
What's funny this woman just ran fast as 400 m in history as a woman.. she's so fast it's 2020 and you still have cornball people in disbelief... That's when you know you have hit hyperdrive..
East Germany, at the time, was communist and highly systematic about their methods and politically motivated to prove the superiority of their socialist system---by any means possible. And that included drugs--steroids. This does not take away from their high intensity training, machine-like in this respect. But other East German athletes from the same time period have asked for their records to be deleted. Except Koch. She had great talent, speed, and worked incredibly hard. I can understand how she feels. But she was on steroids. As was Flo Jo, later, of the USA. An East German woman shot putter took so much steroids during the same time period that she effectively became a man. The amount of testosterone she had in her had radically changed her physically and psychologically. She could only identify as a man. She tried to sue the government. In the end she just had to settle on being a man and married a woman.
The woman in second place also holds an unreachable record, in the 800 metres. Both doped up to the eyeballs, showing exactly how much effect doping has and how little credibility the olympics has with its never ending losing battle against the dopers. Look at the russians doping today and all the denial you see as though it never happened. When bolt beat gatlin in the world championships in 2015, four of the eight starters in the 100 metres that day had previously been caught doping. Gatlin has always been a scapegoat but the reality is there's always been cheats everywhere in athletics.
Yes, she is probly doped, but 47,60 is unreal. Thats almost 2 seconds faster then the fastest woman this year. So dope or no dope, she was an incredible athlete. its not like you run 2/3s faster when you use dope.
***** "Yes, she is probly doped" LOOL, it was a big UNDERSTATEMENT for sure..She probly eat anabolic to breakfast like you eat cornflakes!!!! Unreal how this cheater can get so many pos wote!!!!????
***** Btw, DDR was a BIG cheat-fabric. All about result, doesnt matter if it was drogs for horses and the atletics get cancer and after time looks more like a gorilla (but mutch more uggly).
***** Thats right, Under the same circumstances they still were the better Athletes. The whole Olympic final used doping ( Including that prick Carl Lewis ). If Johnson was from the USA and not from Canada he would still have his Gold medal. Sad but true. Same with cycling, they were all using doping and Lance was still clearly the best. So he was the best Athlete already.
People talk as though modern athletes are not taking performance enhancing drugs, and they most certainly are. Christine Ohuruogu (who served a ban for doping) has a 400m personal best of 49.41 which is a disgrace compared to Marita Koch.
Everyone crying about the possibility of doping.... Well, she did not test positive, so, speculate all that you want. No one gives a shit about pundits.
It still makes me laugh when the armchair critic points the finger at Eastern block nations for doping and they pretend that the west were clean... half the time the so called clean western athlete had run a worlds best time and was alongside the doped eastern runner. The point I make is that natural talent in womens sprinting runs out far below the level needed to even qualify for a world sprint event.
Man stop listening to people and look at this woman body.. not only have she never failed a drug test ever in her life.. look at her do this woman look like she on steroids.
dont forget sports science is far superior now compared to back then, running tracks are far superior now, even running spikes are better now compared to back then.
I would really delete off the face of the planet all these infamous 80's records. This one, the 800m Kratochvilova one and the Griffith 100/200m ones are the most scandalous. Luckily in 2016 Kendra HARRISON crushed Donkova 100mh record, another shameful page in athletics' history.
exactly. What people don't understand is that you still have to train incredibly hard to perform like this, and it's the psychology in the sport which separates the elite from the rest, not the just physics. Your body is only as strong as you mind.
Everyone was on drugs. The only documentation of Kotch taking drugs is that Koch complained cause she was on so little drugs compared to everyone else that she had spoken with! Greatest female 400m runner ever. Bar none.
I genuinely don’t know how anyone can even dispute whether the top athlete of this day were doping. Obviously they were. Koch, Flo Jo both have ridiculous records that were clearly fuelled by dope
You think you can take drugs and sit down and run a 47. 6 in the 400m you don't think this woman was talented and worked hard plus if you don't have facts you just showing your ✋ you're showing that you were not talented enough .... Stop being bitter
@@bennessler2106 I kind of understand what you're saying.. all these people bashing this woman.. first off 47.6 won't even win a high school state championship... People acting like this woman ran 44 second 400 m... I just have to realize they have a lot of underachievers and cornballs in these comments.. you made an excellent point though
Koch and others would have stopped oral steroids such as Turniabol about 10-15 days away from that WR400m run. This would have adequate time for the metabolites to clear... then she would have injected Testosterone Propionate every 2-3 days to maintain peak form right up until the race. fast acting Testosterone esters would guarantee a clean test in the 1980's but 30 years on the doping controls can now find it more easily.
She won. Don't matter what u say. At that time, all were using the same stuff. She just worked harder. Now, imagine if u were a man pretending to be a women and beating women and yet look like man. .... Tennis anyone?
tripleheshy 2 white women sprinters are the best this year - Schippers and NWJR holder at 60m Ewa Swoboda. Maybe the black ones stopped juicing for a while.
Ok, drugs or not, you've gotta admit, this beotch KILLED this event! Look at how she comes out killing the stagger; by 200M, she totally made up the entire stagger! That is something amazing to watch!!!
Gets funnier every time I watch this...one of the most blatantly drugged up athletes of all time. IAAF should be ashamed of themselves for not scrapping her record decades ago
It's pretty clear to be honest. There are only very few athletes in all time who were quite so ahead of the pack in their sport. This race should have triggered an immediate drugs test, Ben Johnson was found to have doped after a similarly astounding performance in his event. But then msot of athletics and 99% of cycling is dirty. The others just haven't been caught. On the BBC's programme on Armstrong many cyclists admitted they knew fine well he was doping, they just never spoke out.
@@stevebbuk Wikipedia says - Koch's achievements, along with the performances of many other East German female athletes, have long been under suspicion that they were achieved with the aid of performance-enhancing drugs.[9] These drugs were and remain illegal, but were not detectable at the time. In 1991, German anti-drug activists Brigitte Berendonk and Werner Franke, were able to save several doctoral theses and other documents written by scientists working for the East German drug research programme. The documents list the dosage and timetables for the administration of anabolic steroids to many athletes of the former DDR, with one of them being Marita Koch. According to the sources, Koch did use the anabolic steroid Oral-Turinabol (4-Chlorodehydromethyltestosterone) from 1981 to 1984 with dosages ranging from 530 to 1460 mg/year.[
@@williamdavidcraigjr7841 Yes I was contrasting the two physiques in my own mind, which although both drug-induced do appear different in a musculoskeletal way. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CNAEgygNUCo.html
Infelizmente muitos atletas antes da fiscalização intensa do doping se submetiam a usar certas substâncias para alcançarem o pódium. Muitas marcas são suspeitíssimas.
Even later challengers of Koch's WR by Perec (a 48 sec runner) are questionable as she was coached by Koch's Husband and former trainer Wolfgang Meier. In more recent times Kapachinskaya (Russia) who was medalling at world level with 50 or just under tested positive for Winstrol... Just look at the bodies of some of these women now, most of them a leaner and better muscled than Koch and many other sub 50 runners from 1980's, Many also show traits of HGH use.
Do people really not realize that dope is still used. Sport is big business and dope is much more sophisticated nowadays. If you don't do it someone else will.
8 лет назад
Sure, but some people don't seem to realize how much easier it was back then. Doping today gives you very little compared to doping from 30 years ago.
Irrespective of how the drugs help an athlete perform, doping will give athletes great advantages. Runners who perform clean are only shaving hundredths of seconds off their personal bests. We all could tell that Johnson ran 9.79 with the help of drugs, seeing that other athletes had best times of 9.90 seconds. 0.11 seconds is like a good metre of advantage in a race. If Usain Bolt was using performance enhancers in 2012, he would have beaten his 9.58 second 100m down to 9.3 seconds. In fact, we would see most elite runners in the 100m do under 9.5 seconds with PEDs. Otherwise, we are going to enter an era where world records being made are rarely seen.
Come on! Don't tell this is not doping! There are many reasons to believe that she was doped! 1. It was the 80's, everybody was using it, doping controls were not trustable and she competed for a country well known for its doping abuse. 2. She broke the world record by a huge margin (0.39) in a sprint and no one has ever come close to that. 3. Don't tell me that after running like that you are going to finish like nothing happened, just smiling. A natural athlete would be hyperventilated, feeling cramps and basically lying on the track. This is all bullshit!
"A natural athlete would be hyperventilated, feeling cramps and basically lying on the track." ..... says an idiot who is clueless and has obviously never been in shape in his entire life.
I have my doubts about Perec particularly the way she left the Sydney games. I think all athletics world records should be scrapped and started again. The quality athletes are capable of getting close to the old LEGAL world records anyway, e.g. Usain Bolt, Yelena Isinbayeva, David Rudisha, Mo Farah, especially as many of the rules have altered such as stricter false start rules.
Agreed, anything before the Bolt, Farah or Rudisha era are all suspect especially when doping was far more common back then and it was easier to get away with it (Koch being an example), if she ran today she would’ve either been caught before she got to the games or at least have been caught right after and lose medals and her records. The 80’s and early 90’s for track and field was a joke.
Nope, especially since she’s more rounded than even the likes of Ben Johnson but the later was thrown under the bus and didn’t have the backing of a country like America or East Germany in the 80’s. So many other races more impressive.
Perec ran 48.25 because the Atlanta track didnt reach IAAF standards. The track was too hard and so assisted sprinters too much. But they were never going to scrap all the records set at the games. Notice how many incredibly fast times were set at one olympics games. Bailey, Johnson, Perec.
pffff... It's doping. Doping allows all you see. Nobody's denying it can be aesthetically pleasing. She runs away from everyone from the start. It's no 'masterclass'. The manufacturers of the roids take the plaudits.
