1972 Marshall model 1979A 4x15, with G15M-50 T1757 speakers is played with and without insulation. The guitar is a 2014 Gibson SG Standard Aged with Custombucker pickups and the amp is a 1977 Marshall JMP model 2204.
Your videos are awesome. All of them! You are playing the equipment in the style that it should be. You are taking the time to A/B all of the things that should be A/B'd. You don't have a ton of hits yet, but you will in time. Thanks for the hard work and patience doing all of these. This is posterity at its best. Keep them coming!
a cabinet without damping is more resonating and many people prefer that - at first listen... but it can add to much low resonances and a "boomy" sound. Damping reduces those resonances and gives a more balanced (and somewhat tighter) bass/ low mid. What you prefer depends on your whole setup. If your setup sounds to "boomy" and you dial out the bass from your amp...it might be worth to try some cabinet damping.
After looking at the comments, it appears many guitar players LIKE the additional 140Hz or so "thump" that the cabinet provides without the damping in place. That might be nice for playing alone, but from a mixing standpoint, it's adding "mud" which will ultimately get EQ'ed out to make room for other instruments/vocals. Think of the BAND'S sound not just your particular instrument!
For me (in good headphones... late here so can't listen in speakers), the main difference is not in the low end but in the mids and highs. Insulation deadened the sound in a way I didn't like. Without, the sound came alive for me and sounded more natural.
Man, FUCK the band.... And the know it all sound engineer who usually ruins a perfect sound in the mix... And for that matter the producer too...... i am only partially joking.
Sounded better with insulation I think. Much fuller tone. Without the insulation some of the notes got a bit fizzy and the cab sounded tinny if that makes sense.
I must have 'tin ears', as the rift played WITHOUT the insulation, to me at least, sounded airier and less 'flat'. The rift WITH the insulation sounded more audibly 'correct' but somehow less enjoyable.
Listening to what he's doing after him moving the amp with that specific mic, then compressing the sound into an mp3, then listening to it with your specific device and the specific speaker it uses makes it damned near impossible to have the same experience as the person in the video and in turn with anyone else listening to it. Kind of what makes any RU-vid review on anything that produces sound or when comparing two different devices.
Wow, very noticeable difference. I like the air and swirl of the cab with no insulation but the tightness in the response with. I might try a thin layer in my 1960B. Thanks for another great video!
Yeah, I agree! I have a 1x12 insulated cab that I'm not crazy about...now I'm gonna rip out that insulation and see if it livens up the tone...there's an EVM12L in there so it should sound better than it does!
I like it without insulation, but I think that insulation would be great for doubling guitars in a recording. Play the same thing twice, once with insulation panned left and once without insulation panned right. I think the mix of the two could combine to sound huge.
I think damping material might be beneficial to a cabinet loaded with speakers that produce fizzy upper mids like the g12t75. I’m going to try it out in my cabinet tonight!
These clips just showcases the difference. The insulation removes bass and makes it sound thin. So it is hard to say which one sounds better. However if we would change the eq controls on the amps to match the sound then I think the one with the insulation would sound tighter.
I have to listen again, but my initial impression was the insulation sounded a little better with the mic @ 1'' while the no insulation sounded better at ~2 feet. @ 1" the tone sound less 'cluttered' but at two feet, it seems to translate into more complexity, which I found pleasing. These are my opinions based on one listen through
It would of made a big difference if the volume was turned up more once he moved the mic away to get the cabinet to push much more air. That's why it sounds the way it does in the video. 😁
I am listening on some Yamaha HS7's with a sub and I like the low end that having no insulation gives. Seems like a more desirable Rhythm tone for indie rock while the insulation might give the high mid punch for a lead.
Its hard to tell on computer speakers, but I think it sounds a bit better with insulation. I have had Altec A7's as home stereo speakers for almost 40 years. (bass drivers upgraded to RCF L15/554) They are insulated horn loaded bass cabinets, crossover at 500 hz to high frequency compression horns. They are the best sounding speakers I have ever heard for clarity and true sound reproduction at high decibel levels Over the years my Altecs have offended many neighbors, some living up to 1/4 mile away who have called the police. I have showed them I usually keep it under 30% volume and never go over 50%. Most police are so impressed by the sound quality, they would just say "try to keep it down" especially after 10pm. Due to the A7's massive size, I have been forced to own a few other top rated speaker systems, and they all also had insulated cabinets. I believe the insulation is required for true sound reproduction. When you are creating your own music, you are open to any means available, so there are no set requirements for speaker sound. Still nothing comes close to the Altec A7 design,ether as bass bins or full range with H.F. horns.
I think that insulation material is wrong.You should try pyramid cut foam that has high percentage of lead in it.I bet you it is going to be big difference in sound. Thanks Johan for all of your videos. *****
I always add some acoustic insulation to my cabs to eliminate that hollow-box sound and to add some bottom-end to the tone. I also port the fronts of my cabs.
@@Hugoknots Open-back cabs are designed to be placed in front of a wall because a lot of sound comes out the back which is supposed to bounce off that wall and out to the people's ears. With closed-back cabs, I port the front so that sound can come forward and into the mic.
+Hoschie22 I think it mainly takes away boxiness, but since there are coupling it may be a positive side effect. Havent though of it before though. Cheers Johan
As per my earlier comment; I think this "is" a good video. I can clearly hear the difference (and improvement) with the insulation added to the cab. But to the many commenter's here who actually like the un-insulated sound, this video seems lost on them. Why, you ask? Because they're not in the actual room. They aren't there man. To the trained ear this video truly illustrates cleaner delivery with insulation. To the untrained ear, it may be lost. You have to admit. There are a lot of comments saying the no-insulation sample perceivable sounds better. With a better recording signal this video would convince all. That's all I'm saying. Should I make a video myself? Hmmmmmm.....good idea!!! Maybe soon
Hi Johan! I really like the sound without insulation, to me it sounds fuller and livelier. But maybe a cab with insulation can be useful in a studio recording situation? Thinking maybe it can make it easier to isolate the "core" of the sound you want. And wow! These 15" speakers are beautiful, it's like art :-)
I had a small VOX combo that started thumping at louder volumes. The bass would create a dominant peak in the bass regen and compress badly. After I put some foam in my cab it went away.
I have a great Blackstar 4x12 cabinet loaded with V30 speaker, do you recommend Insulation in the cab. for playing metal and high gain tones? CHEERS FROM CHILE! I LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE YOUR VIDEOS, wonderful work..............
+TheZabatra Thanks! Glad to hear that. The insulation makes it more, scooped, firms up the bass and takes away some of the boxiness, so it could work. Try with a blankett or such first and see if you like it. Cheers Johan
With insulation the bass needs cranked up more on amp which would sound , much better probably ,and define the low ends more and sound wicked at high volumes with a defined thump and better mids
All you guys think it sounds better without the insulation, but in a band scenario you are better able to dial in your tone and not have it get EQd out of the mix. I've experimented with a few different celestian speakers, 2 cabs, different ohms and 2 heads only to realize that the unwanted boomy lower-mid and screeching highs that I was experiencing were due to the standing waves he is talking about. A 6"x10" piece of grey egg-crate foam right behind each speaker really cleared up my tone nicely. Way overdoing it will definitely make it sound dull so you have to experiment with the amount of insulation.
Insulation is great at damping the higher end bass frequencies . For subs and woofers it cleans up the bass sound and puts focus on low bass, 80 hz and below. In the case of one man playing guitar I can understand why many people in the comments say they prefer it without insulation. Without insulation it adds depth and warmth. In a band situation its best with insulation. A bass player should add the low end and guitars should worry more about clarity.
@@JohanSegeborn you could always make a second back panel for the cab and add a port to the new one. That way you cab just swap out baxk panels depending on how yoy feel. And it will keep that beautifil cab og. Altho i dont believe ports belong on guitar cabs. Bass sure. Guitar no
I liked the close mic insulated better for the quick solo run you did. All the rest the non insulated sounded a little but better. Interesting stuff since my 2x12 is insulated.
The point here is not the sound difference, the point is speaker cone excursion. The damping material avoid the excessive excursion that can cause damage to the speakers.
Sounds better without the insulation. I also prefer a solid wood cabinet without any covering. For dampening, just place something heavy on top of the cab, like an amp head. That also makes a difference. The more dampening, the better the focus, but you lose warmth and tone.
Honestly, I thought it sounded better without the insulation. A bit thicker, fuller low end. Buuuut... the second comparison at 1' away seemed like the opposite. Ha, so hard to tell unless you are in the room while its happening. Interesting, nonetheless.
Johan, you obviously are lucky enough to have the resources to get all this incredible gear, so I’m curious: why don’t you get yourself a simple little lapel mic to speak into for your intros??? That way you don’t have to speak into your phone or the actual amp mic. Just a thought!
Hello Johan. Aren't the "G"15M speakers guitar speakers? Were they actually intended for Bass, or where some of these big cabinets marketed to guitarists with the guitar speakers (G12M)in them and other speakers for bass players. This cabinet sounds great by the way, Thanks.
+Dennis GarryOwen Thanks Dennis, back then Marshall put G12M25 55Hz in their 4x12 bass cabs and G12M25 75Hz or G12H30 55Hz in their 4x12 guitar cabs, but all these cabs were used for guitar mostly. I think the 4x15s were often sold with the 200W Majors that came in bass or lead versions. Cheers Johan
Thanks for the information Johan. I enjoy learning about the history and path of music, it is very much like the history of science and in some instances it is the same.
For solo ,nylon stringed guitar ,I need a pure clean sound. Would insulation help with this or maybe increase the bass too much.? ( Am building a DIY cab ).
I think with insulation would work better in a band mix. Without sounds great by itself. Probably really complex physics behind the actual frequency response with the coupling of the speaker baffle.
Small Noises on Attack with out insulation. The More Bass you push the More the Standing Wave Matters. Modern Prog Metal like Dream Theater push A ton of Crunch Bass.
Its impossible to tell any difference in the sound on Utube, however it for sue the resonant frequency of the drivers raised considerably with the closed cabinet, probably with tighter but higher bass.
+Ken Maybe it's your speakers? The difference i hear from mine is pretty noticeable. I preferred the no insulation, has more top end and a bit bigger sounding to my ear. That's why i have none in my main 2 cabs.)
Let me clear things up for everyone. - The only thing the mic is picking up is the speaker. Not the cabinet. ....Even at the 2 inch location. - The mic is barely effected by any unstable sound. - Insulation improves the sound of the "whole" cabinet. - Insulation is used to help "tune" the cabinet and to control any unstable sound waves. - And lastly; insulation keeps more sound "inside" the cabinet, thus less leaking through the cabinet. The mic test in this video "is" correct ...but does not illustrate the true effect of cabinet insulating. For the most part, cabinet insulation improves the sound for the player. Not so much for the microphone. Thanks for reading everyone: 30 years in sound the reinforcement industry.
+brian boyd Thanks for your feedback Brian. However I don't agree that close miking a speaker only picks up the sound of the speaker regardless of what box it is mounted in. It has a huge effect also on the close mic sound. This video shows how insulation affects the tone of a recorded speaker. Feel free to elaborate on what you mean with the "true effect" of cabinet insulation, and how you would propose to illustrate that in a video clip.
I would like to see a similar video, but with a vintage fender cab, like a bandmaster, tremolux, bassman, and or showman. Those cabs came with insulation already l.
Is there any way to port an old orange 412 for 30hz? I have one I put some 1980s 30hz ev's with insulation that I usually use for bass.. it sounds awesome as is, but like an ampeg 810, it has no sub lows.. thanks and great work as always!
Hey bud, i know this videos old.. But i REALLY appreciate it! Im playing guitar through a dual rec into an ampeg 8x10 and its driving me nuts wondering if the insulation holds back my tone (strangles the mids n highs, takes away character) or if it helps by keeping the cab from being too boomy.. Id be very interested to hear your input
I want to solve a standing wave problem in a little bass cabinet I use. Can you recommend a decent substitute mineral wool that works well as a modern replacement? Preferably for sale in Europe? I want to try this.
Great work Johan. Surely part of the story is to do with phase cancellation allbeit at the low end of the frequency spectrum.?? {Suggestion: I find using my Digitech Jamman XT I can guarantee that my test input is identical for A and B comparisons.} And: I've just found an immaculate, chequerboard Marshall 2064 cab (folded horn) with 2 forward mounted red Rola/celestion G12.50's in it. Never heard of it before but it's early 70's, MDF sealed back, same dimensions as a standard 4x12. Beginning to like playing through it but maybe I'm just enjoying all those 'subs' which would not be good for live band or recording work??
Cheers for that Johan. Is there any way I can send you a picture? To be honest I was thinking about damping it too ..but that kind of defeats its design spec..guess it was for Hammond Organ or maybe Bass?
Pretty negligible at guitar frequencies. The waves are much shorter of course so even a few Hz difference can cover up resonant peaks. I'll bet at bass guitar frequencies it's much more apparent. By the way Johan, that cabinet may be one of the best sounding cabs ever made. Who would have thought 15s were so well suited to guitar?
To me : With insulation : Loss of roundness in the lows, sounds like a reduced/filtered spectrum, but sweeter highs, better balance. Without insulation : Extended response in the lows (let's say low mids, this is a guitar, not a bass), but the highs are aggressive and too present, and the lows are often unwanted in the mix. Only the Mids/Highs are used to stand out in a song.
Has anyone built or experimented with a bass reflex speaker cab design? I ask because I feel that my JCM 900 does not have enough bass response. I like the JCM 900 for many applications, but have to crank the bass knob, roll back the treble to 0. Thank you!
Hi, I love the sound of 15" speakers for guitar and I want to try to get my old 2x 15 cab back to work so i´m looking for a good G15m Clone do you have any suggestions? also how does your 4x 15 sound in use with a bass guitar? I love your Video´s
***** Thanks! I know that Celestion realeased a new 15" guitar speaker recently, but I havent had the chance to try it yet. I play the 4x15 with bass in these videos: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-eGGipHjdnCA.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BFdITLHS27Y.html Cheers Johan
Because the guitar speakers are identical and playing the identical sound. Having them play the same air space will add them together into a bigger sound. HiFi speakers are different and playing different sounds or frequencies, therefore need to be isolated. They only put them in the same enclosure to either make the sounds project at the same time, same location...or to simplify moving and placing them. A really really good HiFi system will use separate enclosures and locations for each speaker to produce superior spatial stereo sound.
+10gaugesbelow I love the G15M50s for a British tone, for an American tone, for instance the 15" Eminence speaker in the Supro Thunderbolt reissue is great.
Johan, great sound. you have access some amazing gear. Can you share info and post pics of the cones/cone numbers of these 15" inch speakers? I tried to get info from Dr. Decibel at Celestion and can you believe they have no records and/or pics of what original 15" greenback Celestions look like and what the original cone numbers are. There are a lot of people out there trying to sell and pass off as original cones what in MHO are reconed speakers at amazingly high prices.... Anyway. If you could help us out here in the "real world" it would be amazingly helpful. Cheers!!
I don't get it, I was subscribed to you and then found that I was not at all. weird.. awesome vid, I wish I got to play the two to know the difference a little bit better.
Not surprising that it sounds better without it. Part of this depends on which speakers you use but more so around the depth of whatever kind of cabinet you're using. In a classic 4x12 Marshall cab with medium sized speaker magnets, you get a nice punchier feel with the reverberation of the sound waves off of the wooden back of the cabinet. A deeper cabinet with no insulation would probably be woofier. The Bogner 1x12 ported Cube Cab has a lot of poly batting in it for this very reason.
Alright so, with insulation it sounds a bit bassier but without insulation it sounds a lot more crisp and maybe a little louder, i could be wrong but i think i hear more mids aswell...
Johan Segeborn Ohh, so generally if i am looking for a rather scooped sound, i should theoretically use a lot of insulation? Would Glass Fiber insulation be any good for this? I think i have some at home! :)
