Thanks to everyone who's watched so far! I've seen several comments asking about Werewolf by Night and the GOTG Holiday Special. As I say at 1:18 in the video, I didn't include them and decided to focus on the shows and movies directly tied to Phase 4. I enjoyed Werewolf by Night and obviously haven't seen the Holiday Special yet, but I'm looking forward to it.
great video as always dan I'm a film student at first institute in Orlando flordia I have project for a short documentary and the subject I choose is film criticism and the misconception people have about critics I was wondering if you would be interested in being the critic I interview which would be over zoom it would mean a lot I've such a big fan of you for awhile now hope to hear from you as soon as possible thank you
as a French-Canadian I found the partition plot line Highly offending. I mean complaining about getting your own country, I wish we had ours. Not Quicksilver, you sure ?? Cross-generational, nailed it!!!
@@danielvezina5521 Agatha would be a perfect opportunity to reveal that Evan Peters' Quicksilver actually escaped the destruction of the Fox X-Men universe and was put up in essentially a safe house by SHIELD. Vision became aware of this and that is the reason he selected that town to purchase a home in (he may have thought that introducing Wanda to an alternate "brother" would be comfort to her). Without doing this you have to deal with Agatha successfully duplicating Ralph Bohner's superspeed with her magic. Also why is Wanda so accepting of this "brother". Peters is not attached to the Agatha show, but I hope he actually secretly is. Quicksilver would be in the unique position to escape an alternate universe given his power set.
That podcast with the 3 of you was pure fan service...😝 Was so great listening to you guys again after so long...hope this will be a regular thing now...
One of the many reasons I like watching Dan's videos is that we see movies and shows in a very similar way. Dan's rankings is exactly how I would rank MCU phase 4. I originally thought I was the only outlier who really loved Moon Knight and Oscar Isaac's performance, really glad that Dan ranked it high as well.
hearing you joe and spencer together again was great! i hope you keep doing it…you guys could literally talk about anything and i would listen. but the segment ideas were great.
I love Dan, Joe, and Spencer, especially in combination! Thanks for pointing this out. I subscribe to the podcast, but tend to watch most of your content on video rather than in the audio format.
I personally loved the Eternals. A lot of my list would agree with yours, but Eternals would be at the top. I have a soft spot for ambition, and even though it wasn't perfect in its execution, I thought it was very very good.
Teared up listening to the podcast with Joe and Spencer. Forgot how much I missed all of you together; felt like being reunited with old friends. Thank you for that!
I know it’s a joke that all podcasts these days are bros just shooting the wind but if there’s any version of that podcast I’d listen to every week it would be Dan, Spenny and Joe without question.
My Phase 4 Rankings #1). WandaVision #2). Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings #3). Black Panther: Wakanda Forever #4). Spider-Man: No Way Home #5). Moon Knight #6). Loki S1 #7). The Falcon and the Winter Soldier #8). Ms Marvel #9). Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness #10). Werewolf by Night #11). What If? S1 #12). Black Widow #13). Eternals #14). Hawkeye #15). She-Hulk: Attorney of Law #16). Thor: Love and Thunder
Its amazing to me that everyone agrees that Phase 4 was a more unstable era of the MCU but no one seems to agree on why! I've seen Moonknight at the bottom of other people's lists, some people think Eternals is genius (I dont get why...) most people dont like What If but Dan just sees potential! Maybe this is the splitting point where fans of different genres just appreciate the MCU on different levels? The MCU may just be too diverse to appeal to everyone now but that's less of an indicator of quality than people think.
I think part of what makes this phase specifically so hard to rank is that everything is so damn long and “uneven” as you put it. It’s hard for me to rank stuff like WandaVision and Black Panther when they have so much stuff in them. As a side note, isn’t it crazy how all 3 of the best shows managed to completely fumble the ending?
Marvel has a huge problem with endings. Even most of their movies, the third act is arguably the worst. Shang-Chi, Black Panther Wakanda Forever, Eternals, etc. Spider-Man really was the exception and it makes sense why it probably made #1 on a lot of people's lists
I just dont agree with Loki fumbling its ending though. It was way diffferent from what we usually get, but that's arguably a good thing. It was never about a big climactic battle, it's about choices and ideas. That's what made Loki interesting and that's what it ends with.
The first time I watched Eternals, I had somehow turned off the subtitles for the non-English language sections. So I had no clue what they were saying at those parts. I thought it was very avante guarde and daring of Marvel to rely on visual storytelling and subtle clues to make sense of those scenes. Then I turned back on the subtitles and rewatched it. Lol.
Nice list here’s mine 1. No way home 2. Wandavision 3. Loki 4. Falcon and the winter solider 5. Moon knight 6. Ms marvel 7. Shang chi 8. Wakanda forever 9. Dr strange and the multiverse of madness 10. Hawkeye 11. Thor love and thunder 12. Black widow 13. Eternals 14. What if 15. She hulk
I have a personal theory that Loki affects the multiverse immediately after End Game. So every movie and show we've seen take place in this phase is in a different universe. It explains the different tones, lack of references to other MCU occurrences, and makes sense knowing that this is Multiverse Saga and Secret Wars is coming. I even think there are little hints in dialogue that this is the case. It's fun to imagine anyway!
The villain/dragon in Shang Chi should have had speaking roles. They speak in the comics, and we've seen Dragons speak before (LOTR/Dragon Heart/etc). It really hurt the film when the villain has been speaking to and influencing the main villain, but then when it appears it's just another roaring Kaiju. Same applies to the ancient dragon. It should have had a voice. Probably would have been British despite the Asian theme, but could've been a good way to get an aged Jet Li or Jackie Chan in the MCU.
Spoiler of Ranking with time stamps; incoming Spoiler of Ranking with time stamps: imminent 15. She-Hulk 1:55 14. Eternals 3:41 13. Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness 5:48 12. Thor: Love & Thunder 8:07 11. Black Widow 9:06 10. Hawkeye 10:45 09. Ms. Marvel 11:50 08. The Falcon 13:20 07. What if...? 16:32 06. Shang-Chi 17:55 05. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever 19:15 04. Loki 20:11 03. Wandavision 22:12 02. Moon Knight 24:13 01. Spider-Man: No Way Home 25:47
My list I’m including I am groot and werewolf by night 17. Thor love and thunder 16. She hulk 15. Black widow 14. I am groot 13. Ms marvel 12. What if? 11. Falcon and the winter soldier 10. Eternals 9. Wanda vision 8. Dr strange 2 7. Shang chi 6. Werewolf by night 5. Hawkeye 4. Moon knight 3. Loki 2. No way home 1. Wakanda forever
Mine (What If is excluded, cause it’s a part of Marvel Animation) 1. No Way Home 2. Wakanda Forever 3. Loki 4. Eternals 5. Ms. Marvel 6. Werewolf By Night 7. Shang-Chi 8. Falcon 9. Black Widow 10. Moon Knight 11. Hawkeye 12. Multiverse of Madness 13. WandaVision 14. She-Hulk 15. Thor: Love & Thunder
Really interesting list. Thanks for making it! Personally I’d put Eternals much higher, I think it ages better than any of the other projects and I do feel like you got to know the characters impressively fast, the problem you’re describing is true in Rogue one for me but not in Eternals. And I would’ve put Spider-man a bit lower.
Almost pick for pick my ranking as well. I would have Ms Marvel a little higher actually, and I'd switch Loki with Wandavision (maybe), but yeah well said. and I totally agree with your sentiments on these rankings. I knew going in No Way Home would be #1.
"I said I wasn't going to do this again because the last time I did this, we got a lot of hate comments, but this time's different!" I love your endless optimism and seeing the best in people, Dan.
So... am I the only one who absolutely LOVED Doctor Strange 2? It's probably my favorite MCU movie since Infinity War (yes, including Endgame). But I feel like no one else likes it besides my partner and me, let alone love it as much as I do LOL.
I gave it an 8/10, so can't say I loved it, but I really liked it. I'd rank it higher than Eternals(Also 8/10) and Love & Thunder(7/10). But I'd rank Spider-Man(9/10), Wakanda Forever(8/10), Shang-Chi(8/10), and Black Widow(8/10), in that order, above it. There were a few scenes in the movie I really loved, but overall it fell a bit flat for me.
I feel like my favourite might be Wakanda Forever. As much as I do love Spider-Man No Way Home, Wakdanda Forever was an emotional rollercoaster, and a real epic.
OMG Thank you! Dr. Strange 2 was such a disappointment for me as well, for a lot of the reasons you bring up and more. Wanda went through a lot of character development in Wandavision... and then it's like "Hey, here's a book. Ooops I'm bad now. Vision who? WHERES MY KIDS". The Illuminati cameos were fun at first but then it just felt like a giant middle-finger to all the fans of those characters when they were systematically picked apart in the most idiotic ways possible. (Also, didn't want to skip over this: Thanks for plugging the mini-reunion podcast episode! It was really nice seeing/hearing you guys all together again!)
I am another one who really enjoyed the podcast reunion. I regularly watched all of you and the remainder of the crew at SJU, SJ and MF. It was good to have some of that energy back in my life. So thumbs up on this video if it means you can have more of an opportunity to do that again.
Excellent stuff as always. Very pleasantly surprised to see No Way Home rank so highly for you. It is quite easily one of my favorite theater going experiences ever. An absolute dream come true for massive Spidey fans.
0:49 omgomgomg...MUST download! I was about to leave a comment on the Fandom page to do an OG crew reunion, in the spirit of the season. I know that it's too late to organize a Thanksgiving release, but possibly a Christmas one? 🙇🏻♂️
Here's my ranking of phase 4. I'm including the specials too now that I've watched the GotG Xmas special. While I don't agree with a lot of your rankings, I do agree with a lot of the points you made about the things each project either did well or struggled with. I'm giving my list letter grades too to give an idea of the tiers they fall into for me. 1. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings - A 2. WandaVision - A 3. Loki - A 4. Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special - A 5. Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness - A- 6. Werewolf by Night - A- 7. Ms. Marvel - B+ 8. Falcon and the Winter Soldier - B+ 9. Eternals - B+ 10. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever - B+ 11. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law - B 12. Moon Knight - B 13. Thor: Love and Thunder - B 14. Spider-Man: No Way Home - B 15. Hawkeye - B 16. What If...? - B 17. Black Widow - C
I mostly agree with this list except I would move Moon Knight below WandaVision and Loki. The last episode of Moon Knight devolved into your typical SuperHeros fighting episode that felt out of place from the rest of the episodes, so it lowered my enjoyment of the show. Also I would have included the Werewolf by Night special in this and ranked it pretty high like maybe one above Moon Knight.
Thank you!!!!! I agree with you in the first 8 places of your list, except for What if, I would change it for Black Widow, anything else is on point for me! Of course everything is subjective
Honestly Dr Strange was going be a totally different movie if Derrickson stayed on. His villain was going to be Nightmare and the story seem to focus on Dr Strange past and how he lost his sister. I agree with Dan, I felt they should've stuck with Derrickson vision and start showing signs and hints of Wanda turning because of that book. It would've been a better built up to here becoming Avengers level threat or Dr Strange 3 side villain to the main threat.
For me it's (all based on how I received it + personal rewatchability) : 1) Loki 2) Falcon and the Winter Soldier 3) No Way Home 4) Eternals 5) Shang Chi 6) Werewolf by Night 7) Hawkeye 8) Black Widow 9) WandaVision 10) Ms. Marvel 11) Wakanda Forever 12) Multiverse of Madness 13) She-Hulk 14) What If? 15) Moon Knight 16) Love and Thunder I have no plans on watching the Groot shorts that came out too
Yet it is obvious the Showrunner, directors, and writers have never opened a comic book. It started off great, but fell off a cliff in the last few episodes
I always enjoy your ranking videos and am super excited that you talked to Spencer and Joe on the podcast 🤗 I loved the three of you together at Screen Junkies!
I agree with you on Moon Knight, definitely at the top for me as well. If they just spread out the finale into 2 episodes, and added one or two more action set pieces it would be my #1.
Taste! The same exact top-4 as me, which is rare because of my love for Moon Knight. Also have MoM ranked very low for the same exact reasons you mentioned re:Wanda.
If they had less movies and half the shows in this phase, the overall impression would have been much better because most of them are fine. My favorites are WandaVision, for the lock down joy, and somehow Shang Chi. Special shout out to Black Widow, too little too late.
Sat with a sleeping baby on me for two hours. This dropped just as he woke up! Just managed to catch up. Love hearing your thoughts. Also working my way through the podcast with yourself, Joe and Spencer and laughing my ass off. A real gift to hear you three shoot the shit again.
It always amazes me how much I can completely agree with Dan 100% on one movie/point and then be totally in opposition on the next, lol Keeps things interesting, for sure!
Best of Phase 4: WandaVision premise What If: Dr. Strange Episode Mobius and Loki Elizabeth Olsen Iman Vellani Agatha Harkness Oscar Isaac Andrew Garfield's Spiderman Sam and Bucky Angela Bassett Sylvie Yelena Belova Ms. Marvel episode 1 world creation M'Baku Simu Liu Richard E. Grant ........... Personal indulgences: Greek Russell Crowe Evan Peters Hawkeye's daily life Cloak of the Damned Stormbreaker jealous of Mjolnir Zemo Dancing 1hr version *These are in no particular order. I might edit & add things as I remember them. **Listing the actor vs character is intentional.
Great video Dan! Love your analysis (even if I don't always agree), and I appreciate that you trust your audience enough to do some pretty nuanced criticism. Keep it up!
MoonKnight as your top show? the taste! Couldn't agree more, I was so invested in Mark, Steven and Layla that I even loved the final episode. Imo it was a great premise, it just needed more time, wish it was an 8 episode series instead of 6, because Harrow was such an interesting villain and it would have been great to see more of his dynamic with Amyt and why he wanted to become her avatar after Khonshu left him (and know why Khonshu left him). What I love the most about MK is how it portrayed DID (I recommend Cinema therapy's video on the series if you haven't seen it!) and I think it had the best set up for a follow up, I can't wait to get to know Jake!. Episode 5 broke me, Oscar Isaac really deserved a nomination for that episode alone!.
This was mine: 1/ Shang Chi 2/ WandVision 3/ Spiderman No Way Home 4/ Ms Marvel 5/ Black Panther: Wakanda Forever 6/ Falcon and Winter Soldier 7/ Loki 8/ What If 9/ Thor Love and Thunder 10/ Doctor Strange MoM 11/ Black Widow 12/ Hawkeye 13/ Moon Knight 14/ Eternals 15/ She-Hulk
Great rankings and insight on the films as always! I agree especially with your first and last picks--Spider-man No Way Home was phenomenal and She-Hulk just didn't do it for me, despite Maslany's great performance. I'd easily put WandaVision at #2 and would probably only really disagree on Moon Knight's placement--I'd put it a little lower. I feel like MCU Phase 4 really struggled with "quality vs quantity" overall. I'm looking forward to Phase 5 and am nervously excited to see how they manage to bring all these characters together!
My ranking: 17 - She-Hulk: Attorney at Law 16 - Eternals 15 - Thor: Love and Thunder 14 - Hawkeye 13 - The Guardians of the Galaxy: Holiday Special 12 - Ms. Marvel 11 - Black Widow 10 - Wandavision 9 - Werewolf by Night 8 - The Falcon and the Winter Soldier 7 - Shang-Chi and the Legend of the 10 Rings 6 - Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness 5 - Black Panther: Wakanda Forever 4 - What If...? 3 - Loki 2 - Moon Knight 1 - Spider-Man: No Way Home
Spider No Way Home is easily the best of Phase 4. Not many movies can truly create moments of the audience exploding in unison cheers. Endgame and NWO are the only two movies that I've seen in theaters with audience responses like that.
I will never agree with the placement of MoM, but I do completely agree with your Top 4. Phase 4 was taking a lot of risks, some paid off, some didn't. But the outcry of people that Marvel movies are too samey never rang more hollow. Most complaints I've seen are the risky plays that strayed from the formular. Spider-man being at the top makes sense, because it is the most all around solid movie. It didnt take many risks, but it delivered on everything it set out to. Phase 4 is by and large something new that doesn't forget its roots and I like that.
First of all, thanks Dan for taking the time to rank and provide a reason for each ranking of the phase 4 MCU. Secondly, your ranking pretty much aligns with mine, and what you said about Strange MoM is pretty accurate because on the first viewing when the illuminate show up, yeah, cheers and excitement in the theater, but seeing it a second time and how quickly they were dispatched goes to show that it was nothing more than fan service. Strange had potential for much more and it didn't capture that potential.
I understand how people can not love She-Hulk, but as an MCU stan whose favorite TV show from the past is Better Off Ted, It’s felt like they made a show just for me… which also feels like a real mistake because my tastes are so bizarre, but I still thank them for it. I fully understand anybody who wasn’t onboard with it. I only saw 1 fault with your rankings, and that was not mentioning the music in Loki. One of the times I rewatched Loki was just because I had the music stuck in my head. It’s up there with The Mandalorian.
I think phase 4 was disjointed mostly because of the pandemic. Multiple shooting timelines, casts, release dates and scripts had to be amended. I suspect they will get more on track in the next phase. It was going to be hard to follow the infinity saga no matter what so phase 4 will act like a palette cleanser, which may actually work to their benefit in the future.
Fair. Doctor Strange 2 made me angry for the exact same reason you stated, the treatment of Wanda's character. In fact it's the only marvel product that made me feel that way, hated that movie. A lot of phase 4 was "meh" with a few highs, falcon and the winter soldier being my second favorite after wanda vision.
too bad to see Eternals that low, I usually agree with most of your movie opinions. I get your opinion thou, it should've been a 4-5 hours show to get to know more the all the charaters. But on a rewatch it wasn't that bad, they foucused on some characters more than others, knowing they'll get more screentime later. And the look and feel of Eternals is unlike any other, i forgot i was watching an mcu movie
S: No Way Home A: N/A B: Moon Knight C: Wanda Vision, Multiverse of Madness, Black Widow, Shang Chi, Loki, Werewolf by Night D: What If?, Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, Wakanda Forever F: Love & Thunder, She-Hulk, Eternals, Falcon & Winter Soldier Was very disappointed overall with Marvel in Phase 4 as you can see. Marvel is getting worse imo.
Oh man the reunion video made my day! I can’t tell you how often I go back and watch the old honest trailer commentaries with you guys when I need a laugh!
I'd place Loki above Moon Knight but same place as WandaVision, because they both were so fresh and fresh into Phase 4. They had new styles and unpredictable stories as well as character building on already established characters.
My ranking (Best to Worst): 1. WandaVision (WandaVision has to be my #1. It literally changed the trajectory of my life.) 2. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever (Now I understand why people said Marvel Phase 4 started & ended on its best projects.) 3. Hawkeye 4. Falcon & The Winter Soldier 5. Ms Marvel ("Kamala Kahn raised my interest in The Marvels.") 6. Loki 7. What If 💖 8. SheHulk 9. Moon Knight (I think I'm in the minority. I like the shows more than the movies. With the shows, you spend more time with the characters.) 10. Shang-Chi 11. Thor: Love & Thunder (The joy & fun reinvigorated my LOVE of the character.) 12. Spider-Man: No Way Home (I didn't care for the depressing ending.) 13. MoM (You're not wrong, but IT hurts to put Wanda this low on my list.) 14. Eternals 15. Black Widow ("Six years too late starring a character that had already been killed off." I did and do immediately love Yelena though. Florence Pugh "really is great in this part.") (14, 13, & 7 - we agree.) Favorite Characters: Thor Wanda Yelena (& Bucky Kamala - The Marvels Shang-Chi Riri - Ironheart! ❤️) Favorite Characters Before Phase 4: Iron Man Spider-Man Thor Wanda
Eternals was 🔥🔥🔥. They also have reference the giant head in the ocean I believe twice. I definitely felt way different about this list. Dr Strange was one of my favorite. No way Thor Love and Thunder over those 2 is kind of funny lol
I agree with this list, but also appreciate that even if I didn’t this was a well made and logical exploration of the many weaknesses and the few strengths of phase 4
I agree with alot of Dan's comments, especially his criticisms of those ranked lower. I'm not going to do a specific order but I'll group them by rating. 10/10 - Spiderman 9/10 - Doctor Strange, Shang Chi 8/10 - Wandavision, Hawkeye 7/10 - Thor, Falcon & Winter Soldier, Black Panther, Moon Knight 6/10 - Eternals, Black Widow, Loki 5/10 - Ms Marvel 4/10 - She Hulk I haven't watched - What if? I really think Marvel are struggling with their TV shows. In my opinion, they don't have enough full length episodes to develop characters and storylines, in particular their villains get very little screentime, and this makes the storylines lack any impact. I think 2022 has been a great year for TV overall, so many amazing shows (Stranger Things, Westworld, Cobra Kai, Snowpiercer, Terminal List, The Boys, The Orville, All Of Us Are Dead, House of the Dragon, Reacher, Gangs of London, Peripheral, Andor), but Marvel can't even come close to this level of quality.
Didn't see Ms. Marvel show but here is my ranking for the rest. 15) Eternals 14) What If 13) Werewolf by Night 12) Hawkeye 11) Falcon and The Winter Soldier 10) She-Hulk 9) Loki 8) Black Widow 7) Doctor Strange and TMOM 6) Wandavision 5) Thor Love and Thunder 4) Moon Knight 3) Shang Chi 2) Spiderman: No Way Home 1) Wakanda Forever
My top is 1. Shang chi 2. Moon knight 3. Spider man no way home 4. Black panther wakanda forever 5. Loki 6. Guardians of the galaxy holiday special 7. Werewolf by night 8. Doctor strange multiverse of madness 9. Wandavision 10. What if 11. Falcon and the winter soldier 12. Hawkeye 13. Ms marvel 14. Black widow 15. Eternals 16. Im groot 17. Thor love and thunder 18. She hulk
My list (and as always, if this list isn't your list, you are wrong! :) ): 1. Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 2. WandaVision 3. Thor: Love and Thunder 4. Hawkeye 5. What if? 6. Spider-Man: No Way Home 7. Ms. Marvel 8. Loki 9. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever 10. She-Hulk 11. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness 12. Falcon and the Winter Soldier 13. Black Widow 14. Moon Knight (based on the three episodes that I could bear to watch before calling it quits) 15. Eternals
Eternals, for me, would be much higher in the ranking - probably 4th or 5th. It has much deeply layered characters than most of the marvel characters and the world is more fascinating with one of the best third act as well as the post-final act. The movie works for its mood and story which is way too grounded for a marvel movies.
It seems popular to dunk on Phase 4 as low-quality and unfocused. It puzzles me. The movies and show are pretty high quality. People also don't seem to recognize the MCU at this stage basically has the same challenge as Phase 1. It's introducing a whole new cast of characters and building out the world, so we can get to the "Big Events" in movies like Thunderbolts, Kang Dynasty, and Secret Wars. And, it's doing so with more ambition than simply introducing a bunch of white guys who all seem to operate primarily in the U.S. Phase 4 has made the MCU a bigger, richer, and stranger world -- and I love it! Here's my rankings (which could change tomorrow): 1. Spider-Man: No Way Home 2. WandaVision 3. Loki 4. Black Widow 5. Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings 6. Moon Knight 7. Falcon and the Winter Soldier 8. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever 9. Ms. Marvel 10. Hawkeye 11. Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness 12. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law 13. Eternals 14. What If ...? 15. Thor: Love and Thunder I really like everything from 1-12. I've re-watched all of them. Some multiple times. I find the storytelling in Eternals to be a bit stiff and the ending to be abrupt. I like moments in What If, but the comic never had any stakes because it's just a "what if" and the show felt the same for me. Finally, Thor: Love and Thunder was an unpleasant experience. The script and direction wasted the potential of both the source material and the cast. Retroactively, I found myself liking Thor: Ragnarok less as a result of seeing this movie.
