Marvel's Disney Plus Shows Have to Change 

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Secret Trash

Favourite: Daredevil S1-3 Least Favourite: either She Hulk or Secret Invasion (tho I dislike Loki too)

Favorite: Loki Least Favorite: Ms. Marvel

Loki, but even that was average at best. Only reason it was good was because of Tom Hiddleston. He always is wonderful to watch, along with his chemistry with Owen Wilson

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Loki was far from "low profile".

​@vee1766 True in terms of writing and engagement its different and it was good. But besides that all the other ones are lame af.

Disney + is losing money tho

@@M53614 I'd say Moon Knight and WandaVision were at least bold and ambitious in trying weird stuff.

That strategy isn't going to work on casual audiences who checked out after Endgame or No Way Home. In fact, it might even be a deterrent since people don't want homework to enjoy their simple popcorn flick. And the longer everything is tied up together, the more that quality will suffer, which leads to even greater disinterest.

@@blackosprey2219 I mean, I personally stopped watching Marvel after Avengers 1 for exactly that reason. But Disney sees dollar signs and isn’t gonna change.

@@blackosprey2219 Yeah, I think we're seeing the backfiring of that strategy as more and more people decide that if they have to watch everything to stay abreast of the storylines, they're just not going to watch anything.

@@StarryEyed0590Exactly. As someone that used to be a huge MCU fan, I’ve been picking and choosing only a few select shows to watch like wandavision, loki and moon knight. Outside of Loki and moon knight season 2 I don’t have much interest in the other shows, even though I was initially excited for secret invasion

A strategy that doesn't work, I among many have given up trying to follow it all and only watch that which actually interests me, which sadly is very little these days.

Yeah, but they always have to bring them into the main MCU. Then you always have to have a cameo from an established MCU character. Which can take away from the character they are introducing.

BUT... BUT THEY INTRODUCED GLIMDORF ??? DON'T YOU GUYS REMEMBER GLIMDORF ???

Remember when they didn’t cross over except for a few Easter eggs and in Agents of SHIELD?

​@@maroshmarosh2173I love that I don't know if you just made that up.

That the problem probably when you have too many characters to show and momentum

WandaVision, Loki, Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, What If, Werewolf by Night and Holiday Special. I’d say those were quality content.

@@benwasserman8223 Aside from the Werewolf by Night special, every single series that you mentioned suffers from a bevy of writing problems. They also tend to have rushed finales.

@@benwasserman8223 Wanda vision: Began well and then drove itself off a cliff. Loki: Severely overrated and really handled it's main protagonist badly.

@@taurusstudios5497 Loki’s finale wasn’t exactly rushed. If anything it was the most unorthodox path a finale could have taken with He Who Remains’ monologue. Hawkeye wrapped up most threads but its real issue was how much people cared about D’Onofrio’s return as Kingpin. As for Ms. Marvel, I’d say the finale worked because, compared to most shows, it spent a lot of time giving personality to the supporting cast and family. So there was still an emotional component at play.

@@ameyskulkarni Well luckily for us, season 2 is on its way and will hopefully rectify your problems. Plus Key Huy Quan in more shows is always a good thing.

AoS went on for too many seasons though; I liked the story when it was more grounded, centered around the Earth. Once they started going into space and brought in the Kree, it just felt like a worse version of Star Trek.

The Flash TV Series despite Flashpoint being one episode was pretty decent as well.

Season 4 of Agents of Shield was amazing .

Sucks to hear but probably healthier

@@zogwort1522 I dropped out at Infinity War. I knew they had to retocn all the characters dying so I checked out. Turned out it was even dumber than I thought I going to be.

@@bwhere45smart man

I took Infinity War as the finale. It saved me a lot of disappointment.

⁠@@zogwort1522I disagree, Compared to most ending we get these days it’s about as good as you could possibly expect In 2019 we also got the end of the new Star Wars trilogy and Game of Thrones, shows you how rare a good ending to a big franchise/saga actually is. It’s slower than Infinity War for sure but that’s also one of its strengths and it’s a pretty good send off to the 2 most popular characters in the MCU (ignoring Spider-Man)

They need to do the Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul approach

Marvel didn't invent mini-series, it's nothing new, it's been done for a long time, i don't know what you're on about.

@@vee1766 I did not say they invented it I’m only saying the way they approach it with it being a “6 hour movie” stretches out the story unnecessarily. Many of the shows to me feel like bloated movie scripts.

@@vee1766 they are only "mini-series" by name. As many people have mentioned the shows don't seem to follow a tv structure but seem more like a movie concept that's been stretched out to fit a pre-determined number of episodes (usually six). HBO's Watchmen was a mini-series with 9 episodes and yet it was executed superbly, it didn't feel like a stretched out movie. Their only show that actually felt like a tv show was Wandavision but even that had its own issues

Ms. Marvel could have been great if they had been willing to write it as an episodic, villain-of-the-week show about a girl trying to navigate her family, her culture, and her new powers. It's the back half where the weight of the limp villains and convoluted myth arc drag the show down too much for the great characters and charming lead to carry it.

Let me guess, you want the same trash formula that the CW has been milking to morons for a decade with their awful DC shows ?

​@StarryEyed0590 Might I recommend Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur? It its a wonderfully written and animated show that basically accomplished what you were looking for in Ms. Marvel and then some

@@Del-Dokan I haven't watched that one! I'll check it out!

WandaVision still could have been a movie.

Wow, you think AoS is peak? I wish I could have low standards😢

@@5Ci0N Ok, well what's your peak then?

Daredevil? Luke Cage?

Daredevil was indeed peak marvel tv. In fact was peak tv full stop

You are everything that's wrong. All you want is CW level of trash. Agents of Shield was extremely mediocre from start to finish, it belongs with the Arrowverse and all that crap in term of "quality".

Or the new Adventures with Superman, it's amazing. Like they really got space to make it without being picked on. Or (not for kids) Harley Quinn. I like that both of these exist. Batman:tas was so good that I recorded every single one on VHS back in the day. Alot of my college friends didn't believe me, only thinking WB was the only old shorts.

@@TheCoolCucumberI mean we’ve gotten 8 different shows across 51 episodes across all of phase 4 , for simplicity sake let’s say each show is $200 million a pop. They’ve spent 1.6 billion on these shows. It’s not sustainable and what the audience has come to realize is that none of these shows are important to watch the movies in theaters. These funds could have be allocated to getting X-men and FF off the ground post endgame. Also they could build an Animated cinematic universe on the side to explore even more wild concepts

I think What If? is great

​@JosephDutra what if might be one of marvels best projects, like ever

They ALREADY had several shows like that... but Disney bought things out and canceled them....which made no sense because those shows were pretty great tbh

I don’t understand how the Eternals movie got one movie, where Secret Invasion and She-Hulk got fleshed-out shows. It feels less like they’re trying to tell these stories, and more like they’re choosing what to make by throwing darts at a wall covered in Marvel comics

Exactly, Moon Knight and Ms Marvel did not need to be full series, their plots could be wrapped up in an hour

​@@jesusramirezromo2037 disagree with Moon Knight. It had the potential of being a proper 2 hour-long movie, only rethinking the plot a bit and having better and more expensive set pieces. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if before announcing it as a show the original script/draft was for a movie.

@@georgezee5173 honestly though, moonknight could have been a proper movie

Personally most of my favourite tv shows are either 1 season miniseries that tell a single contained plot line. I just watched a series on Netflix called "Treason" with Olga Kurylenko, it is never going to get another season and it doesnt have to, because it works as a 5 episode miniseries and has an actual start, middle and end. Or alternatively theyre long multiseason epics like Battlestar Galactica that have consistent themes, characters, and a plot that actually goes somewhere and builds on previous seasons. I absolutely hate shows like Lost or dramas like Suits or Mad Men that just meander on and on and nothing has any consequences. X-Files if you use a guide and skip all the inconsequential filler episodes is actually a pretty decent story. Then again, Im watching this video and seeing that image of Burn Notice, I did like that show and that definitely never went anywhere plot-wise besides recycling the same plot of the dude trying to get his life back together and ending up in the same place at the end of every season.

I'm gonna add a bit though. Multi episode arcs are much harder to pull off but can be done. Major Crimes (cable show on TNT) had several 5ish episode single case arcs and imo were their best work. I think Marvel isnt hiring goos Veteran writers

@@jamesknapp64 The Wire and Battlestar Galactica are my favorite shows when it comes to seasonal arcs. Veteran writers all quit hollywood in 2008 during the previous writers strike when the studios told them to fuck off.

True, i can't stand content creators who yell 90% of the time

"Marvel is failing at TV", ah yes, very calm and measured take, not absolutist at all. That's just ridiculous recency bias based on the failure of Secret Invasion, i bet you anything that when the season 2 of Loki (still the best Marvel show by FAR) will release in a month nobody will say Marvel is failing at TV anymore and that take will sound ridiculous.

@@vee1766exactly

Yeah being an Internet tough guy RU-vidr who constantly yells belongs in Internet 1.0

@@vee1766dickrider

That or make the episodes like 90 minutes

​@cancerstinks1 i disagree on that. If every episode is longer than an hour, its gonna be pretty bad. In fact, an hour is too long which they will a lot of fluff(and I'm not talking about side content) Unless its gonna be like chernobyl(or something on that level) its really hard to engage the audience for that long. I mean, its a movie at that point

I think Daredevil Reborn will be 18 episodes.

Also make them better in quality

@@Coolcoolcooldude From what I've heard it's 18 episodes in 2 parts (essentially seasons) of 9 each

And you get to know the characters, see their development.... SHIELD is so good

Those shows helped transform make the MCU feel like a reality I could live in and could keep up to date with as things happened week by week. I miss those days.

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Animation suits Superheroes so much, they can get really wild and creative with it

Marvel studios actually has a lot of upcoming animated projects in the works such as What if season 2, X-Men 97, I am Groot season 2 Spiderman Freshman Year and Marvel Zombies etc, as they have their own animated division that they started a few years ago.

I've thought they should do a Captain America and the Howling Commandos animated series for years. All the stuff that got shoved into the montage in The First Avenger, including Steve and Peggy's growing relationship, could be flushed out in a limited 6 part series with the original cast returning to do voice roles.

Animation for Super hero shows has already shown how much better suited it is for it. Both Marvel and DC have shown how effective animation is for these types of shows and they seem to be easier to produce than the bad CG ridden live action movies. Plus it lends to more suspension of belief and won't have the issue of the more creative costumes being overdone or thrown out for somehting worse

Yeah it was quite interesting that was said as Agents of Shields most acclaimed seasons were actually the dark ones. Critics and fans absolutely adored seasons 3-5. The only light hearted seasons in my opinion were season 6 and 1.

Yeah, you can't make a universe of just Simpsons. You need Moe, Mr Burns, Chief Wiggum, Milhouse, Snake, you can't just have 50 Simpsons families.

I'm guessing if it's arc based some of the arcs will be great and some will be bad

It’ll probably turn out to be 18 episodes of 20 minutes so it’s still the same thing as these 6 episodes of an hour :P

Wait, Daredevil is still ongoing? I think it's better to put it to rest as is. The cancellation was sad, but it was a great run.

@@leithaziz2716 it’s apparently more of a soft reboot then a continuation. Apparently Foggy and Karen won’t even be in it

​@@ar_reactions612Then what's the point? Those two were the hearth of the show and important insight into how ordinary people viewed super heroes.

Seriously. That idea melted my brain. Like that would be the COOLEST f**king thing ever made. Like, holy $hit how has this not already happened?? Who is in charge around here?

Can't imagine Wolverine with Genndy's atrocious style of animation. Take a look at "Unicorn: Warriors Eternal". The show looks awful. Stylization is completely out of place.

It would definitely be a crazy animated show to watch. I can see Genndy Tartakovsky’s Wolverine taking place in Japan or something.

I see you everywhere, bruh. What you said is a fact, though

See, one of the problems with MCU movies is that they lack a certain eroticism. For the next Hulk movie what if we were to bring... an incredibly hot but skeptical female lab partner into the mix? And then that way, whenever The Hulk's not out busting heads because he fights crime, he's back at his lab performing outrageous sexual experiments on her supple young body. Now, here's the twist, and there is a twist. We show it. We show all of it. Because what's the one major thing missing from all action movies these days, guys? Full penetration. Guys, we're going to show full penetration, and we're going to show a lot of it. I mean, we're talking, you know, graphic scenes of The Incredible Hulk really going to town on this hot, young lab tech. From behind, 69, a**l, vaginal, cowgirl, reverse cowgirl-- all the hits, all the big ones, all the good ones. And then he fights crime again. He's out busting heads. Then he's back to the lab for some more full penetration. Fights crime, back to the lab, full penetration. Crime, penetration, crime, full penetration, crime, penetration... And this goes on and on, and back and forth for 90 or so minutes until the movie just sort of ends.

Or just die

It needs to Die.

Agreed

I think FatWS and Hawkeye could work well together, call it something like aftermath or legacy as a more general succession story about the future of the mcu without some of the avengers. Antman 3 might have been better served here too.

@@kingofhearts3185Avengers: Aftermath is an amazing title

Marvel of Thrones. GoT had 3-4 stories each ep and had loads of episodes where certain characters didn't even show. I actually think that could have worked

It did great!

Well, to be fair, even the comics’ Secret Invasion was better in concept than execution. EMH managed to streamline a lot of its concept in a way that felt more character-centric. Same for streamlining Kang’s goals and threat to the Avengers

Yes I agree

EMH really managed to streamline a lot of stuff to be easy to follow without completely dumbing it down.

Yep. My only little gripe is that they revealed the whole thing at the end of season 1. It sort of ruined the sense of paranoia that this type of story should have.

👍💯

I agree but at the same time, to quote Doug Walker, “Darker doesn’t always mean better.” There has to BE A REASON why it’s dark.

I loved the Defenders shows on Netflix, but there was still a huge amount of needless padding in them, 13 episodes ought to have been 10, or even 8

It's because for years the guy in charge of Marvel Animation (Jeph Loeb) openly admitted he didn't like cartoons.

I think the bigger issue is that Disney+ shows are more character-driven and movies more plot-driven. Shang-Chi aside, all the new Phase 4 origin stories have been made for TV, so people don’t really see them as extensions of the movie timeline. The Marvels will definitely test that effectiveness, since it directly ties into WandaVision and Ms. Marvel’s aftermath.

Yes. I actually forgot about the show, then my bf started watching it but I checked out after 3 episodes because I wasn't hooked. When they first announced Secret Invasion I imagined an epic plot where we got to see at least some of the main superhero cast. But it felt so weirdly disconnected and self-contained to me.

All 3 arcs of season 4 were amazing

Complete agree. Can't sing the praises of that season enough, "Self Control" and "What if..." remain two of the best hours of television I've ever watched.

"the better netflix shows" *lists everything except for Iron Fist* :D

Nah Punisher was mid

@@Fluffy6555 For me, Jessica Jones fell off pretty hard after the first season

@@Fluffy6555 I think it was the best written show even if he himself was a kinda bland character. Daredevil was more entertaining and Luke Cage had more style but Punisher had a dense plot and some amazing writers.

I also excluded The Defenders. Which has Iron Fist. :)@@FilmscoreMetaler

Loki? Werewolf By Night? Ms Marvel and She Hulk were also experimental in their own way

@@racool911 Loki was pretty Marvel, just not a lot of fights. I never watched the others, and didn't even know Werewolf By Night was Marvel until like a month after it came out.

​@@racool911Werewolf by night is more of a short special thing and not an episodic show like Wandavision was

@@Eidlones "Loki was pretty Marvel"...? It's a super weird show that takes a lot of risks.

@@vee1766 What risks did it take exactly?

I was so stoked for the first issue of that Sam as Captain America book. Then issue 2 was the tie in to the stupid Axis event and I never picked that series back up.

Disney should have ditched the current MCU and set their new universe around the Cosmic Marvel and the Guardians Of The Galaxy. THAT is where the real potential is. They should have cut the MCU in two : the Cosmic Marvel (in space) and the Mutants/X-Men Marvels (on Earth).

I think theres a lack of passion for art. Doing things and making things for the sake of having something interesting to say. I think the culture in america is whats causing this. Noone has time to think about making cool and interesting stuff.

''Don't get so hung on cuntinuity'' ''Explore new things'' - one of the reasons people are abandoning this shows is because the producers literally don't care about continuity. - marver trying new things is not going to work if they are going to make it badly.

@@Small_child_punterexactly my thoughts!! the reason I really hate ant-man 2 and 3 is that they does barely anything to progress the characters of scott and hope in a meaningful way and are perfect examples of just making a movie bc the previous one made money. No love or passion for the characters behind those films just slamming action figures together

Can never escape some MCU lambasting. Follows me everywhere. Even my nightmares. At least channels like these are chill and reasonable about it

"Do actual episodic television shows for individual characters and that culminate into a “prestigious” miniseries for your event stories. Doing multiple “prestigious” miniseries is too difficult even for the best of creators." Oh fck off, i know what you want, you want that typical CW trash formula. Stay far away from Marvel with that crap, please.

Haha! I hated that one. To each their own ^-^

I am! One of my favorites from DC right now.

@@captainmidnight same! It's one of my favorite comics out right now! Fire Power is another one I'm really enjoying. I'm getting tired of events and crossovers too, so these feel like a breath of fresh air.

Lol I think no one will support your opinion on that woke garbage

​@@professorm3136Where is the "woke" now? Is it in the room with you?

Came here to say this, most of these shows should have been movies, except She-Hulk which was actually structured like a sitcom.

@@gregvs.theworld451 if I look at your reply, my guess you’re the living body of “woke”

@@professorm3136 You use Boogeyman words like "Woke", you lose credibility

Wow what a hot take

@@chriswp5087 It’s a good take

@@chriswp5087😂😂

your literally saying nothing lmfao,

👍👍💯💯💯

Totally agree.

It was a compliment, mostly!

It's like after the pandemic, they just turned on the faucet to full blast and now there's a flood. They're not letting anything breathe or letting the people who create the shows proper time to get things right.