If this is true from one of Phillipa Gregorys books about Katherine, it might be because English custom was for women to bow their heads and not talk directly to men, BUT Spanish custom was for women simply to not look men directly in the eye when talking to them iirc. And she may have taught Mary the same, or she grew up with Katherine doing it, so also does it.
@@townsley2 See, if i'm assuming correctly, Anne as Queen/Mistress likely 'outranked' Mary, to the point where other daughters of a King may have not had to much eye contact if any, to defer to Anne. Think about when everyone bowed low, and Henry had Anne stand, a show of status, and Anne was elated. So Mary would have made eye contact to show she was higher if not equal to Anne.
More than likely, she'd still be killed. Frankly, Henry VIII was a bloodthirsty jackass, and he looked for any reason to get rid of his wives once he got tired of them. Anne was, in all likelihood, completely innocent of the adultery and incest charges. There was no proof, only whispers. But that didn't stop him from charging her, nor from having her executed for those charges. He was a monster. This show paints him in a more sympathetic light, but in reality, he was vile and vindictive.
Unfortunately Henry had good reason to execute CH, because of her infidelities. That was the law then. As for Anne Boleyn, her death was too merciful. It would have been more fitting to send to a nunnery and then let the rebels in the Pilgrimage of Grace do whatever they wanted to her.
@@LaKellita He really didn’t have a good reason to kill Howard either. He at best was able to send her away from court and to a nunnery. He literally made up two laws last minute that condemned Howard and Lady Rochford retroactively without trial. This was such an obvious sham in addition with no trial that Mary Tudor pretty much pardoned the two women posthumously because they were sentenced to death unjustly and unfairly.
@@KL-ki8db what are you talking about? It was a pretty good reason . She slept around and that was treason. He didn't make up any law. It was already a law. And he had already destroyed the nunneries.
It's not that Henry grew tired of Katherine Howard. There were some who chose to use her past against her for their own purposes (the Howards were Roman Catholic, the Protestantism was gaining ground in England).
@@gidzmobug2323 I suppose so, but the end result was still the same. Henry disposed of Katherine because she failed to live up to his expectations of virginity and purity(because nobody at the time recognized pedophilia and csa, women were instead blamed for it and seen as damaged goods).
@@nassauguy48 She was a CSA victim and you're saying she dug her own grave. I'm so sick of the victim-blaming of Katherine Howard, take your misogynistic bullshit somewhere else, please.
Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard were cousins (descent is from the 2nd Duke of Norfolk). Imagine having to curtsy and show deference to the lady who just took your mother's place......
@@lepakshijaideep489if i am correct Henry never let mother and child meet again. In any case I never liked Katherine or Mary. I am more of Boleyn and Elizabeth fan. I found them more interesting and likeable.
I have to agree with those who say Mary was a victim of abuse as well because their waa not just losing the title of the rightful princess of Wales but she was forced to work for her infant half sister. But the worst is in 2 parts Henry cut off Mary and Katherine of Aragon. Then after Katherine died, there was real danger to her life if she didn't submit and renounce catholicism which she didn't have any more support from the holy Roman Emperor. So she submitted and she is the only daughter that Henry supported as a princess afterwards without the rank. Even after Edward's birth Mary still could of been a splendid dutchess of York. But Henry VIII wouldn't give her back any formal ranking nor would he be serious about finding her a husband. Even after Mary was back at court Henry did banish her again for a short time for literally reminding him of Katherine of Aragon.
@@Monster-ks2yx I would have to disagree on you on that one. I feel like that Catherine and Mary are more interesting to me but hey, your opinion! as long as you don’t argue
Sarah Bolger is a superb actress, she really owned that character. Mary Tudor generally gets portrayed in a somewhat crass manner, however Sarah Bolger gave us a very nuanced, credible portrait of a traumatised young woman who is holding on to her regal dignity with grim determination.
She didn’t take shit from anyone, never sugar coated or tried to please others who were not worth the effort, honest regardless of the situation and true to England. She was a true queen
@@misspriss2482 I don’t disagree. I’ve read some really detailed history about Katherine of Aragon. Mary’s actions really arise from that bitter divorce. Her horrible execution of Cramner was personal. Kathrine resistance to her divorce was oddly pacifist. She refused any suggestions of violent resistance. Mary grew up thinking that any compromise was just weakness. It was a bad sign. Mary’s reign was a strong argument against monarchy. Her life was sad and tragic. When I read the history I feel a little pity though that doesn’t excuse the violence.
@@misspriss2482 shes his daughter wht u expect? u dont think elizabeth or edward were not the same did u? also mary been suffer her whole life so u dont got to say a thing to her unless ur mother got separated from u till her deathbed caused by ur fathers mistress and u labeled as a 'bastard'
It was possible to probable that Henry's last three marriages were never even consummated. That was certainly true of Anne of Cleves. Catherine Howard once commented to one of her ladies in waiting about Henry's impotency. Catherine Parr, who, appearance wise, was not even Henry's type, was arguably just a conversation partner and nursemaid.
The scene with Catherine inviting Mary to have some cake, reminds me of the scene from scream 2 where the sorority girls invite Sidney to rush. Edit: I swear one of Mary's ladies was holding back laughter when telling Catherine Henry would grow tired of her. Can't tell if was the actress or scripted, but still, cracks me up
if there is a god, he is really on her side because out of henry’s six wives, she only hated anne boleyn and katherine howard. the two wives who were beheaded.
Her entire life, especially when she was queen was miserable. She died heartbroken and alone and history remembers her as Elizabeth's bloodthirsty sister. Not very blessed lol
@decimusvitae You're absolutely right. Mary actually didn't start off being a “bad Queen”. Matter of fact, Elizabeth I actually has her to thank for laying the foundation to some of her achievements (i.e the British navy, proving a woman could rule etc). The issue that comes up with history is people are always looking at it through modern lenses. Mary executed less than 300 people in her reign, whole her father and half sister executed way more and are praised.
Unfortunately, not really. While ppl do remember her as the first queen, they often refer to her as 'Bloody Mary.' I do feel that she had a tough life as a royal. She was raised to be queen, only to become a bastard, losing her position and privilege, not allowed to see her mother up until her death...then due to her circumstance, she was without marital prospect for a long time...not until she's in her mid 30s then the whole unsuccessful marriage she had (smh), phantom pregnancy and death...I'd say, she's one of the more tragic royalty figures in history.
I do personally feel for Katherine Howard, she was molested as a child by 2 different men, then married to the King to become the Queen Consort at only 15. Then she was groomed by Thomas Culpeper during her marriage to Henry, eventually leading to her being caught with Thomas Culpeper, and her unfortunate execution. You can’t say she did not have a difficult life considering she was really only a child when she was taken advantage of by 4 men (1 of whom was the King himself).
after how her father and anne boleyn treated her, i feel like she had every right to be rude 2 them. however, when it comes 2 catherine howard she couldve at least a tad bit nicer 2 her due 2 the fact that her father just wanted to marry catherine just so she could give him sons and on top of that catherine was a lot nicer to mary than anne was.
To be fair, everyone keeps forgetting that Anne did not want to be Henry's mistress, the yellow dress at the funeral was most likely a rumour and Mary was taking care of Elizabeth. If someone that hated me was taking care of my child, I would be wary too.
@@ladyv5655 Mary did like Anne of Cleves, and the latter re-converted to Catholicism during Mary's reign. When she died, Mary staged an ornate funeral for her. Interestingly, Mary also liked her evangelical Protestant stepmother, Catherine Parr, because of her kindness. It is an irony that her Catholic stepmother, Catherine Howard, was the one she disliked, but that was largely due to her being five years younger than Mary as well as being the cousin of the hated Anne Boleyn.
At first I thought Mary was so ducking rude , but then I really thought about it and if I was in her position, I’d be WAY WORSE. HOWEVER I wish she was a tad bit nicer to Catherine Howard , even if she was a whore Katherine was a child and Mary should know how girls are used as pawns in court
Actually I understand her position, she was raised to be the Queen actually...so her mindset is not that of empathy. It's of her position, of the 'royalty.' Mary knew how women are used as pawns, as she was betrothed a few times iirc in the name of politics (especially when her mother was still Queen).
I can’t say Katherine was a whore as I do personally feel for Katherine Howard, she was molested as a child by 2 different men, then married to the King to become the Queen Consort at only 15. Then she was groomed by Thomas Culpeper during her marriage to Henry, eventually leading to her being caught with Thomas Culpeper, and her unfortunate execution. You can’t say she did not have a difficult life considering she was really only a child when she was taken advantage of by 4 men (1 of whom was the King himself).
Mary dislike Duke Philip of Bavaria because he was a protestant/Lutheran but once she met him she changed her mind. In real history, he was sent away by Henry and Philip died unmarried. People believed that Philip loved Mary until his last breath. Mary, unluckily married another Philip.
Okay... henry gave anne several chances to have a son but with katherine howard who was the light of youth, she barely gets a chance? Mary was right but holy shit is henry a tyranic cow
@@britc.3536 Yes, when you have H8 as a father, it should maybe disgust you from marriage lol Or maybe, she in fact want children and the husband is the only way
@@dendenne4856 Very doubtful. I feel it boils down to Mary's jealousy at being nine years the Queen's senior, unwed, and sitting on her hands until the King decided what he wanted to do with her. Mary WANTED to have a husband, a family of her own, and while under Henry's thumb, she couldn't. Historically speaking; Mary and Katherine's personalities didn't mesh well either. It had nothing to do with Katherine's relation to Anne.
@@britc.3536 Their personalities didn't mesh because Mary was devout about modesty while Catherine was extremely frivolous and flirty. She was unapologetically Catholic but got along better with the Protestant (at the time) and demure Anne of Cleves than the Catholic Catherine Howard, which is something the series gets right. Princess Mary was an original Thot Patrol.
@@Jacobcoleyray no, Henry killed more than hundred of thousands during his reign including Catholic persecution, while Elizabeth killed thousands during her reign
love Mary!!! a true Tudor! i love when she said to that snake Anne Boleyn if my father mistress wants to talk in my favour I will be grateful!!! epic! and with the other childish "queen" Katherine" silly Howard.
THAT'S MY GIRL OR, THAT'S MY PRINCESS, NO EVEN BETTER,..........................that's my beloved and true Queen Mary Tudor 1st of England 🇦🇨 or 🇦🇮 or 🇦🇺 or 🇫🇰 or 🇨🇰 or 🇫🇰 or 🇬🇸 or 🇬🇧 or 🇬🇸 or well.................WHICH ONE is the right ✅️ Flag of England 🇬🇧 oh finally................stupid and stupid SPELL CHECK ✔️...................l really, really don't like you sometime Spell Check but, thank you 😊, thank you 😊 very much for your wonderful help 👏👏👏👏👏😃🙂👩🙋♀️.
Henry would not have has Katherine Howard executed for adultery if Mary Tudor had not framed her. He adored Katherine Howard ( he was obsessed with her youth and beauty) I doubt Katherine had an affair as she would not have been that stupid otherwise her uncle would not have brought her to court. She was Anne Boleyns cousin and was very close with Elizabeth I. Mary Tudor 1 probably was worried this would threaten her place at court
I do personally feel for Katherine Howard, she was molested as a child by 2 different men, then married to the King to become the Queen Consort at only 15. Then she was groomed by Thomas Culpeper during her marriage to Henry, eventually leading to her being caught with Thomas Culpeper, and her unfortunate execution. You can’t say she did not have a difficult life considering she was really only a child when she was taken advantage of by 4 men (1 of whom was the King himself).
You're crazy. He executed Anne Boleyn (the woman that he changed an entire religion for) for false adultery claims. What makes you think he would not execute K. Howard for possible true adultery allegation? Who truly framed her was Culpepper. Don't let the series trick you. He was another piece of shit who used her and threw her under the bus.
