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I've been in Gary's shoes here. He's trying to make a big, serious, intuitive point here. And Tony is too busy laughing (because he's uncomfortable with the negative) to stop and listen... I can see the frustration in Gary's eyes. A younger me would have hated people like Tony, who pat you on the back and say "Cheer up, things will be better tomorrow" and then just move on But as I'm older, I understand that not everyone can sit with dark thoughts and emotions. They make a lot of people uncomfortable. But I see dark thoughts and emotions as a necessary part of life. You can't keep running from your feelings forever.
I don't think Tony is uncomfortable with the negative in this. As a Te dom I can tell you he's just laughing that hard at how out of the norm the tribe would see that. Humor a lot of the times is randomness like when people fall down and its so uncommon that its funny. I myself am not just uncomfortable all the time when confronted with stuff like that its that I can't just consciously recall it at will. As Shan is saying, "Gary has more practice". 4th Fi isn't "not sitting with dark emotions" its that at certain times they come and at certain times they don't. And it could be societally acceptable or not. And when they do come, get ready for a fucking intense rollercoaster
I don't think masculine vs feminine functions are about gender at all. I think a best terminology would be solid vs fluid functions, bc that describe more clearly what they really are: "masculine" function are solid, they are very rigid and when they find a obstacle, they push it; "feminine" functions are fluid, like a gas or a liquid, they are flexible and when they find a obstacle, they flow around it, they find a easier path.
I have wondered why they use the terms masculine and feminine. They obviously type many women as having masculine savior functions and men as having feminine savior functions, so what is the relationship to gender supposed to be?
thats because masculinity isnt about gender 🙄 youre projecting your own meaning of masculinity on the creators who intuitively detects the meaning of masculine for a human.
Would love to see comparison between savior masculin and savior feminin Fe. Also how Fe savior, Ti demon feel and think. I am ESFJ and people say they clearly see Fe in me, yet I am so logically structured (also what people say). Everything has to be rooted in truth and I question everything. To the point where Fi users, who completely identify with their feelings, think Fe doesn't really feel much. Which, in comparison seems to be true. I've seen that in multiple cases with me and others now.
Totally would like to see this too! I'm INFJ & my husband is INFP. Both Savior feeling but I get confused on what makes it masculine and feminine. I'm pretty sure he's Feminine Fi - I think I'm Feminine Fe....idk. lol
I did the "Tony Robins" 🤣🤣🤣! As soon as Gary V started with that "I imagine them dead" crappy bit I did the same as Tony. Autoresponder style! ENTJ here 😎😜🤣🤣🤣🤣
S-M-Fe here. In my hardest relationship, I had to break up with her, because I could feel her unconscious expectations. She was a wonderful woman, but she wanted all my time, and I could not handle it. Like I would tell myself that it was okay to not hang out with her after work, but I would just feel the charge that 'she's not happy about this' and it would ruin it for me.
Thanks. I’m in a ‘Demon Support Group’ on Facebook- practicing Fe. I’m trying to understand what Fe is and how to use it. So far it feels like premeditated friendliness. But I guess it feels natural to someone with real Fe.
Fe is like Te, but you are manipulating the feelings of others to bring about the realization of your Ti principles as opposed to things/circumstances around you to implement your Fi desires
Both of these comments are so well put. @Andrea Barr , I think I need more concise explanations like yours! I've reached a point where I know just enough to realise how little I know, but snippets of information like that are actually super helpful.
Fe is an external action that you do in order to take care of everyone- their feelings, their values, and how everyone works together well according to those things when they are all put together like a big family. Fi is an internal action that you do in order to take care of yourself- your feelings, your values, and how you live with and deal with your feelings and values in living your life. In this way, it is like Gary was giving an example of how to use FI with his car accident practice, meanwhile, he was caring for Tony using his FE.
Glad that they had clear this up. I was under the impression that masculine fe and feminine fi were very similar because both parties have this strong tendency to only look at the external. And they do to a extent of mannerism but their concerns are in complete opposite directions to point of alienation. Also masculine fe have these tendency to insigate conflict but only to have constructive conflict instead of just painful passive aggressive zero communication .
Started getting a little more introverted as of late. Discovering my masculine demon Fi was interesting; had a phase where I could appreciate the negative emotions more, to sort of broaden the spectrum of experience and give meaning to the feelings. Given, I'm savior Te and will vastly prefer defaulting to explaining things in capacities that others will understand, but I've learned to be more comfortable in public and give ambiguous comments more credence to be neutral. In a roundabout way, it's made my more "reasonable" side that much more effective, since it doesn't have to suppress and compromise for my emotional side nearly as much.
As savior FE and someone who has taken several Tony Robbins courses, I would like to make a few comments. Much of what Tony teaches is visualizing and focusing on what you want and not what you don’t want. In one of his courses he talks about learning from a race car driver that if you start to lose control of the car you should look at and focus on where you want to go and not where you don’t. I have heard many other examples as well as experiencing both sides of that in my life. The Bible also has a lot to say about thoughts and the mind. I agree with Tony’s philosophy. However, as savior FE I can struggle with dark thoughts like that. I have also lost A LOT of people I’m close to. I believe what Gary is saying is more conceptual than literal (y’all know) in that he is saying to appreciate and cherish every moment you have with those you love and always keep in the back of your mind that we are not promised tomorrow. I don’t believe Gary means to literally focus on the act of your loved one being killed; although his presentation of the concept does come across that way to some degree. lol I think Tony wanted to use humor to help hold back a lecture. I would have had that same struggle. 😆
People who use humour to hold back a lecture... Sounds like my husband lol. I'm all serious business because feelings are my responsibility and he's all "Feelings? What feelings? We only want happy feelings let's not even acknowledge the hard feelings."
PRoseLegendary I definitely hear what you’re saying. I don’t think we should deny negative feelings at all. I do agree that in many circles people expect us to always be positive which is wrong. I was really just giving my take on the interaction. I’m my case I have been through so much and had enough negative feelings that I don’t want any that aren’t necessary. I do think we should acknowledge them and deal with them. I just don’t think dwelling on them too long is healthy. That’s just my perspective though. It doesn’t mean I’m right. It’s right for me. My best friend prefers dark thoughts and conversations and genuinely doesn’t enjoy positivity. I love her despite that. 🤷🏼♀️ Js
Has anyone seen the latest interview with Stephen Colbert and John Mulaney?(about anxiety) To me, it just screams Demon F and Saviour F talking to each other Maybe even Demon Fe and Saviour Fe.
Wow, that was an unexpectedly nice interview. Not just about superficial marketing information. They looked like they enjoyed the conversation with each other, and maybe there was a bit of tug-of-war regarding who will invoke whose emotions, but it didn't seem hostile at all.
Yeah that was very good! Mulaney is super composed, but I felt he had some nervous energy. And demon sleep eyes. Almost like he usually laughs but is holding it in for the "fakeness" he talked about
I'm unconvinced Gary is Fe, but I can see why you both would say that. He's seems too damn good at Te activity to be an Fe user. He is like the ultimate ENTJ. He also focuses a lot on the individual when it comes to emotion, which is characteristic Fi.
@@chantalx388 Im not seeing ENFJ. Gary seems naturally more of a logician than a feeler. He's overcompensated with feeling, which is why he has to remind himself of it on a daily basis. He really takes pride on feelings first (as if it is a discovery rather than in-built)
I think by Dave and Shane's system he is ExxJ. He seems to always struggle with his place in the tribe, from his place in his family's business to his larger goal of where he'll place in the last of all time great entrepreneurs. He talks about that stuff all the time. According to the system on this channel, that should eliminate any ExxP including ENFP, and by general internet consensus that would leave ENTJ as the most popular choice.
No, Robbins’ response wasn’t appropriate at all. I get where the other guy is coming from - it’s about savoring everyone’s presence bc everything is temporary. Never take anyone for granted.
I guess it depends on the tone of the interview. If I was CASUALLY talking with someone and they'd say the exact same thing, i'd laugh too bc they took me by surprise. It's different if I'm having a deep emotional conversation with someone.
Was looking for your Twitter handle and couldnt find it... The worst function in this planet is introverted Feeling.. As a dom or auxiliary fn.. Its literary the most frustrated function on the planet
I find that the masculinity of my Fe shines through when I bring it to life through reasoning and deliver the reasons to people for them to gnaw on. But I also wonder if it is feminine because I don’t force people to adopt the Fe. Isn’t forceful or authoritative subscription to a value the antithesis of what Fe is? My Fe sees the values others have that are weak in reasoning and lacking in sensibility. It sees that people aren’t ready to wake up to the reason or logic sometimes, and it accepts them. It may not uphold them, would a feminine Fe encourage them or agree to them? I don’t know. I do think its difficult to find what I truly value sometimes for certain aspects of my life. Values are all very impersonal to me, and they all have a different set of reasons behind them. So my method of honing in on a value that I can utilize is to find one with reasons can make sense for my life (longevity, broad application, no contradictions, allow for growth)
We never got the explanation of why Gary was doing that experiment..what was he trying to get out of it? Something like- to appreciate the people around you more?
That wasn’t her saying it’s a bad idea, rather that if it is your demon function YOU don’t want to seek out negativity in that function. “Why would you think about your family getting killed!?” because that demon feeling is uncomfortable and doesn’t want to be used, especially for negative stuff. It’s why he starts making jokes, he probably finds the idea so outlandish and uncomfortable that to process it he needs to lighten it up and make it more playful.
@@r3dak73d-6 Thank you for your help. It makes a lot of sense to me. As feminine Fi Deamon user, I can say that that this for me would be a 'lighten it up and make it more playful' - that is a subconscious process since consciously I do not feel that the idea is so outlandish and uncomfortable.
@@agnieszkaszczotka7966 That was EXACTLY what i assumed he was doing in the video! I either have Fe as a savior or demon (I'm a very passive INFJ raised by very intense ISTJ and ESTP so they've helped out my functions i think? That's my theory) and i was actually getting the two mixed up because I would've responded by joking around too to ease into things. (I don't quite understand m/f yet, hopefully I'll be able to afford the full lessons soon!)
Sup dylonias. Hm. Well, with all due Respect, &, in my experience, it doesn't matter if it's masculine/feminine/LGBTQRST Fe; Fe is malleable. Maybe the word we're looking for is: *"Intense"* ?
*people don't phuqn realize you can make money sellin' Smurfs* #WOKE Oh, & these types are way more than likely switched around than not. Thank you very much & buh-bye. 😀
Dolf Dervish I don’t know much about these guys, but Gary seems like he’s getting in touch with low Fi with his hypothetical scenario and Tony seems like he’s awkwardly uncomfortable with someone else controlling the emotional tone of the conversation- high Fe.
@Maple Syrup Hmmmm... Honestly, I don't know enough about how each function *actually* translates into Reality to speak on whether or not Fi, by itself, has to do with "hypothetical scenarios." Apologies. That said... I agree with you on the order of his Fi... Meaning, I've Observed that it's Low order Fi. I call entj, all day... To me, he appears to simply demonstrate behaviors of a more developed/balanced/mature entj.. So, he's learned how make his goal of being *who he Authentically is,* appear as though he's helping *other people* be who *they* are. Meaning, if you removed him from his/these scenarios/equations, he most likely wouldn't be concerned about the people he's helping within said scenarios... I could be totally wrong though.
Dolf Dervish Oh, I just meant with the hypothetical scenario Gary had of losing his loved ones, he was deliberately getting in touch with what he most valued. I’ve noticed with high Te, authenticity is a conscious process and high Te people may assume authenticity is something they can help others “find” as well. And I just realized that could apply to Tony as an extroverted judger, if he has high Fe, he could tend to defer to group values over redefining them. Authenticity for him may be through more deliberate use of Ti. Yeah, first impression of Gary is -NTJ, Tony seems -NFJ.
So does Tony Robbins not understand where Gary is coming from in the sense that he ain't used to emotionless analogies? So therefore he tries to act like he doesn't care by making a joke?
Istp here....totally confused. That whole “f” thing is effing frustrating. Why bleed your emotions out in the first place to give people stuff to be uncomfortable about? You could go to therapy or meditate.
Tony Robbins looks to have real (authentic) feeling while Gary Vaynerchuk seems calculated ("not real feeling") to me and this is just from about 1 min. of watching. Makes me immediately like Tony and be suspicious of Gary.
Masculine and feminine traits have nothing to do with functions , you create a illusion link btw it.. Intuition can fall in this trick a lot , for example : These words Gold - Mountain We all know what it means , but when you use your intuition, it can create a new image or concept as : a golden mountain !! Yes human can do this but we all know there is no golden mountain, it's just a connection btw links.. Dave you fall in same trick here about masculine and feminine traits, and link it to the functions , while the source of these masculine and feminine traits came from 1-Genes 2-envirement 3-experiences Pls man just stop pushing forward with this falls informations
I don't think masculine vs feminine functions are about gender at all. I think a best terminology would be solid vs fluid functions, bc that describe more clearly what they really are: "masculine" function are solid, they are very rigid and when they find a obstacle, they push it; "feminine" functions are fluid, like a gas or a liquid, they are flexible and when they find a obstacle, they flow around it, they find a easier path.
@@josehenriquefs888 that wasn't what i talked about , you just trying to add extra things about what masculine and feminine means as words , which I already know , that have nothing to do with functions.
@@MetalGearIV But how can you know this for sure? You say this traits come from genes, environment and experiences. But where do the functions come from?
@@josehenriquefs888 good question, since we don't know yet the functions source ( objectively ) that what the channel claims, you don't say masculine and feminine are linked to functions.. The Genes and the DNA very complex , each tiny little thing have it's own job , if we going to say functions source hypothetically is from Genes ( which we don't know yet ) , even with this you can't say masculine and feminine linked to functions, because hypothetically each gene have it's own job, which means : Genes responsible for masculine and feminine traits , and other genes responsible for functions , but claiming masculine and feminine and the functions all from and same source , that is BS , there is no evidence about this at all , it just crazy claims with no any closr analytical work on these claims, Dave simply saw it as patterns with Ni and he believe it as truth , and call it objective, where the objective in this ?!! I only see illusions and fake informations, if Dave really care about objectivity, he will stop pushing forward and recheck what he claims, but he is Te user , it's hard job for him , that why i told him over and over get Ti user with you in the team , but nope he won't.
@@MetalGearIV I also don't think the OP system is really objective, it's more objective that MBTI or enneagram or many other personality theories, but it's still very subjective... Not so objective as Big 5, for instance. And I see how the confirmation bias could be trapping them... And I agree that they should have some Ti user in their team. But still, I see a lot of sense in most of what they say, including M/F functions. And there is a simple way of solving the problem you pointed about linking masculine/feminine traits to functions if you consider, as I explained, that it's not about gender at all, it's simply a property of the functions: each function can be savior or demon, introverted or extroverted, masculine or feminine - it's simply a property of the function, so all these properties could be in the same gene, assuming it is all genetic. Though I'm not an expert, so I don't know if this is realistic, but it seems possible, don't you think?
