This. I was playing a hardcore renegade Shepard, but this broke me. I have an autistic brother and I blew my beer out my mouth when I finally saw David. I was fighting back tears.
you could tell something was wrong when the Robot David/AI controlled stopped attacking the key override thing it stop kicking it and stood their arms raised only for Shepard and the bois to open fire on it never shot it when paragon came up but Garrius did
Man, I didn't do the interrupt because I was afraid it would be something like, "Oh it's okay, hurdy durr, let's all have a group hug and talk this out." 😂
Honestly if they had squad mate interaction in this DLC it would have been incredible. If you brought Jack with you, she should have ripped Archer apart regardless of what your choices would be. This could have been used as a way to brake Miranda and Jacob’s loyalty to Cerberus.
Or having samara shed as a justiciar probably would kill him as well cause of her code or mordin ripping Dr archer a new one due to being a scientist and what tali would say or if you had garrus on the mission next game if he is with you when saving the academy david says hello to both of them
@@kkimbrell4730 there's two types of autistic though, the creatives and the analytics. Analyical ones are the ones that end up being scientists and what not. Creatives are the ones that become authors and artists.
I know this is an old comment but I took it as he doesn’t actually know but he is the type of person that has an answer for everything and just said it to make him sound like he knows better. Which in turn foreshadows his true character
Seeing David again in ME3 after I saved him completed this story for me. I cried during this story. It was so heartbreaking. The ME3 encounter fulfilled everything about it when you save him off the station for biotic kids.
I always bring EDI to Grissom Academy because her interaction with David always makes me cry. She's still learning how to be alive and still shows more compassion in two lines than most of the organics in the entire franchise. Even if I didn't like the Geth so much, my main motivation for choosing the Synthetic ending (when I do) is to save her. I remember that moment and sometimes I just can't bring myself to kill her. The first time I played the DLC, I cried too. I cried recently after not having played the game in so long. I don't know anyone personally who plays this game and doesn't sent him to Grissom Academy, not even my super Sith Lord cousin (his default is 100% Renegade).
ME2’s biggest flaw was the general lack of squad dialogue or interactions. Outside their designated scenes, the squad members only said something special once in a blue moon. I was genuinely surprised that they were so friendly in ME3: I was half convinced that most of them hadn’t even met before.
@@Romczy i don't think he ment it that way. He didn't say that he wanted everyone an entire 5min dialoge for every little thing. I might just selfreflect here, but when you bring someone to a mission, they said one one thing and thats it. And it always had the same meaning. "They are bad" "Let's kill them" "We should terminate them fast" I agree with him on that point (if thats the case) and wished ME2 had more unique dialog and not just "more dialoge"
Agreed. And Bio Ware has improved as in Mass Effect 3 and Andromeda the squad do move around the ship and have conversations with each other. Does help build more of a team feel and flesh out the squad members.
@@pizzamafioso9191 Exactly. Everyone was strangely silent on the ME2 missions unless they were the focus, aside from some very rare instances. The most you’d usually get is a couple of interchangeable quotes just to fill space.
I am on the lower end of the autism spectrum, I must say this DLC is not offensive at all. It does what any great story does, it asked a moral question that is relevant in real life without reminding you about the real world or focusing too heavily on the question. This asked a valid question which is, "should people with savant type skills, which are very common benefits associated with autism and other psychological disorders, be used for their skills?" and, "do the ends justify the means," but they wrapped in a beautiful and heartbreaking story, with challenging gameplay, a great soundtrack, and medical-accuracy. Mass Effect is the king of this kind of storytelling, I could never walk into a bar and poll people to choose between the genocide of millions or brainwashing of millions to help understand human nature, but I can do that in a story, such as the Geth Heretic story.
@@MrHulthen No it's more like a time when people are starting to notice how insensitive and exploitative a lot of our pop culture used to be and occasionally still is. Yeah we can trip over our own dicks trying to be more empathetic and compassionate but the fact is we're trying to be better which is a good thing But yes, Overlord kicks awesome ass and anyone who complains about David's agency in the storyline probably hasn't played through ME3 where we catch up with a rescued David and he plays an important role in helping Shepard save Grissom Academy
I just completed this dlc with legion in my squad. And he actually does so signs of being taken over by david. Squad members have voicelines when they do abilities, like his shield boost, or drone. Or when ever they last hit a target. Some of the voicelines for Legion are in the "blurry" variant that david uses throughout the dlc.
Yeah it’s kind of nuts because legion has established his vessel is on a private frequency his consensus did this so that if any of his geth were killed and probed by heretics they wouldn’t know where he was or what he was doing. Nor would any info he had on the reapers be relayed back to the heretics which in turn would be relayed back to the reapers. It’s because of this he’s not able to turn legion against us but he could still get in legions head.
So many awesome moments with legion you'll almost never see due to putting you on a timer the moment you get him. And if that doesn't happen you'll usually do everything before hand unless your willing to wait until after the final mission. Plus I don't think I've ever seen a single paragon option where Shepard is both actively about to shoot someone in cold blood and genuinely enraged enough to display what I was thinking at the time.
I remember my first time finishing Overlord. After Gavin walks into the room at the end, with the most amount of disgust in my voice i firmly just said out loud ''What the fuck is this?'' as if i were talking to Gavin himself. My femshep couldn't possibly be more renegade, but the moment i saw this madness i didn't even have to think what decision i was going to make.
I'm an autistic man. I played this mission fully aware of the contents, and I still left it with a bitter hatred for Dr. Archer. I wasn't so much offended as much as I was appalled that someone would do that to their own sibling, especially a disabled one. The behaviours David portrays like stimming (constantly naming square roots, fidgeting with his hands) and requesting that there'd be less noise is actually very accurate toward at least some autistics, and I thought it was well depicted especially from a somewhat aged game. I don't think people are necessarily "offended" by this mission. I wasn't a huge fan of how it was written, but it's not offensive. My only questions pertain to the writer's room and who the hell thought it was a good idea to bring it across like they did. I'd have wanted them to be a little more tactful, but then again we're not really supposed to like Archer or Cerberus all that much. That said, I'm only speaking for myself here, I don't claim to speak for other autistics, or that their opinions on this mission are wrong. If someone else finds it offensive, who am I to tell them they're wrong?
Makes sense that David would ask for it to be "quiet". There is a part of ME2 where you can allow Legion to communicate through the ship's FTL comm system after EDI has been unshackled, and if you ask EDI about it, she even states that the communication was overwhelming for her. So to have those same 'voices' go through a human mind would likely be traumatic. Not to mention, everything else that was done to David.
He can "speak" to the geth through omni tool translation software, most people have it in the mass effect universe. At least this is how I explain it to myself.
true but some sound can be mimicked not all mind you I am guessing the Geth sound is just below the range where human can do it just his Audio should be more organic also if the Omni tool is used every member of the resource team would of had copies so they could control the geth Edit the last bit likely wont works as what they say changes over time needing a Math genius just to communicate.
@@youtubestayatyourrootsforfsake true forgot that Geth transfer information fast and changing with Math the Omni tool would only have a basic AI at best to interpret what the geth say and say it back witch would not work
It’s sad that Legion is the last person to join and it’s late in the story and if you want to spend anytime with him especially on missions it means sacrificing the captured Normandy crew. After acquiring him you only have time to complete his loyalty mission. Are there any side or other squad mates loyalty missions where you get unique dialogue for Legion?
@@MrHulthen I might do a specific Legion focused ME2 play-through now that I have the Legendary Edition. I know you have to recruit a certain amount of people before key story missions unlock so this limits the amount of loyalty missions you can take him on.
@@lambo2655 eh having legion earlier is worth it imo :p the Cerberus crew isn't really that important, i didn't even meet Kelly again in my last one lol
I might be wrong, but I think that as long as you accept Legion's loyalty mission and avoid doing it, you can take him on ad many missions as you want. The cointdown won't happen until you complete his mission, or so I heard.
@@lambo2655 bit late but you can disable the timer with a save editor and its quite easy, doesnt break anything and lets you get all the character interaction with legion
ME2 was already short on interactions between squad members. The DLC was worse but the main game only the character whose mission it was interacted with Shepard, the other squad members never matter with the exception of legion for tali's loyalty mission.
Probably cost too much to get the extended voice cast in to do more lines for the DLCs. No excuse for a lack of squad interactions in the main game though
This isn't entirely accurate. There are a few lines of dialog here and there when you bring certain squad member combinations to certain places and on certain missions. For example: Jack can comment on something an NPC says to Miranda concerning her outfit if you take Jack on Miranda's loyalty mission. Likewise, Miranda has things to say on Jack's loyalty mission. Garrus has some extra dialog if you bring him on Grunt's mission, etc. These aren't huge dialog trees or anything, but there are some funny lines such as Garrus's commentary on fighting through hospitals not being fun and what is fun to fight through during Mordin's mission. Some of these lines are actually referenced in ME3, such as Garrus enjoying fighting in antique stores if they are classy. I agree the interactions for each squad mate are limited, but there are some hidden gems found throughout ME2 via certain squad mate combinations on some missions.
@@jackchatham3947 This is precisely the reason why your squadmates don't have dialogue in the DLCs in ME2 - Bioware couldn't afford to bring back the voice actors at the time. Main game is another matter, yeah, but they still have plenty to say.
@@Spamsmoothie1701 Love the Jack comments. Didn't know about the Garrus lines. Looks like I know who will be on Grunt and Mordin's missions. Everyone knows to bring Javik along to Thessia, right?
The gruesomeness was probably not the controversial part. ... having a misunderstood group of people being stereotyped is more like it, but it's not even that. There is, as mentioned in other comments, some great storytelling and questions asked etc., but I've seen some people in frustrated tears when they realise they cannot punish Archer for the inhumane treatment and torture. People can relate hard and thus feel like the game's really unjust because there's apparently no way for renegade shep to shoot him (which is a 'solution' elsewhere in many other situations in the game), paragon shep to somehow defuse the situation even better and make Archer repent, nor can he even be sent to prison. It's that "how can they [the devs] just let him go without showing us they really believe he was an awful person and that he did unacceptable things to David" that really get some hairs pulled. At least in ME3 the interaction with David is very sympathetic and supportive.
I don't want to spoil it, but if you REALLY hate Archer: In ME3 when he asks you if you know anything about David/Grissom Academy, lie and tell him no.
When I played this I knew the cliche off the bat. What I didn’t know was how twisted it was. Cliches can be turned into amazing stories of done right. This DLC was one of them. Yeah, it’s dark and horrible, but it’s what makes it so good. You feel horrible for this guy and you become way more invested. If it was just some AI wanting freedom it wouldn’t have hit so hard and so well
David is mimicking by hearing the noise, applying "perfect pitch" to associate certain notes in the noise with meanings determined through observation of patterns in Geth behavior as well as raw numerical data (possibly binary translation), then doing his best to repeat the vocals similarly within human limits. Though the game is exact with this, this would obviously be the developers crunching for time and cutting a slight corner. Where we hear a perfect Geth noise from David, what is truly happening in-game is David speaking "bad Geth language," while still being understood. This would be much like a visitor from an English speaking country visiting, say, France, and NOT being fluent. The nuances and accents, even verbal shorthand and dialects may be off, but the native speaker understands enough to respond in kind. If David is even more adept than this description, it would elevate to him being as if a speaker of Parisian French on vacation in Corsica, a region with a somewhat different accent, dialect, and phrasings to common meanings. Basically, though we here him make the mechanical noise, he would truly sound more like a child imitating a Jurassic Park velociraptor with a much more refined control over pitch and frequency (each noise being clear and separate, though sounding organic in origin). The Geth picks this up as understandable and Geth-like, and since it is severed from the greater Consensus and is basically disabled itself, it may make assumptions that David is an injured Geth, or that its own auditory processors (mech ears) are damaged, etc., thus allowing David to bridge the gap in communication. What David does would never work with a unit such as Legion, not just because Legion speaks translatable organic language(s) (since translators are standard, we don't know what he speaks...He may speak Quarian, being a creation of theirs, and we are simply hearing English translated from it)...It would never work on other Geth because they would be smarter, being linked to other Geth that accumulated would bolster intellect, allowing thoughts such as "He sounds weird. My auditory processors must be malfunctioning," to become "He is a human capable of imitating Geth language, albeit crudely so. W should extract him for further study to assess possible applications for organic-synthetic negotiation, or even future collaboration." That is the difference of a few hundred local Geth, and hundreds of thousands across the Perseus Veil. ^^^ Mathematical Savants are more likely to have Perfect Pitch (hearing a note and knowing which it is) because it is based in math (frequency of sound and its intensity). I've found as a high-functioning autistic (once coined as Asperger's Syndrome), that many voices are easy to mimic from a base; Urdnot Wrex, Primarch Victus, the Arbiter (oddly, due to inflection, not so much Admiral Anderson despite the same voice actor), the Master Chief, Gregory House, Gravemind, all three Prophet Hierarchs, Shipmaster Rtas Vadum, and 3-5 characters from Star Trek...I'm not perfect pitch, so I have to adjust the structures of my mouth, nasal cavity, and throat, as well as manipulate my breath to meet each voice. That said, they each are somewhat gravely, deep, and extend their vowels more than most. THIS kind of examination and performance is what David is doing far more instantly and easily in his head before opening his mouth to practice even once.
@@MrHulthen Still they could have just left most of that info on a random note pad that the games likes to toss at you. At least that way if your cared you could read about it in the Codex.
That's fascinating. I also have Asperger's and can basically talk to several animal species in their own language; it's more than just imitation because animals can read your emotions. However I'm actually not a huge animal lover but rather just someone who grew up in the cuntryside
To me Mass effect two last boss and what happened to David is the creepiest thing I’ve seen in gaming when this game first came out. Hell the last boss is still damn creepy
While I still haven’t skipped it in a playthrough, I dread going into it every time due to the VI screaming being the loudest thing in the trilogy, by far, and wanting to still have my hearing by the time I’m 30.
@@frisby7143 good news! I’m playing through Overlord (in Legendary Edition) now and they seem to have lowered the relative volume of the screaming! It’s about the same volume as gunfire now (maybe just a little quieter, even)
Interestingly enough you meet David and his brother in ME3. David helps u with a bonus on grissom academy and his brothers one of the scientists held up with jacob
I did not play Overlord when it first released as I had already beaten Mass Effect 2 by the time it dropped. Upon starting my playthrough of Mass Effect 2 on the Legendary Edition I was very excited to try all the new DLC. This mission was a freaking blast and I wish I would have waited until I got Legion. I am tempted to go back to just before my Overlord save....
Thanks to the coubtdown after acquiring the reaper IFF it's almost impossible to do anything with Legion, unless you don't mind sacrificing part of your crew.
DR Archer: "Ok david im connecting you...now" Vi: "DO YOU WANNA MAKE A 1.000$ A DAY? EVERY DAY?" David: "OH GOD PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!" Vi: "...Raid...shadow...legends!" DR Archer: "Calm down David!" David: "QUIET!"
Honestly, I didn't care for it. In the game all about choices the only real dialogue with any notable choice is literally the last line of the mission.
Bro i read an article that said they were making fun of Autistic people and after playing the DLC and ME3 seeing him, it makes me extremely angry. The DLC is incredibly well done. One of the darkest stories ever told. And it needed to be done to prove an extremely important point for humanity, yet people just cannot understand the point of the DLC. Pathetic, really.
@@johnhouston1590 I feel like people who write these angry articles about mass effect just read the short description on the back of the box. I refuse to believe humans can have such a lack of understanding to actually think this was insulting towards autistic people.
The funny thing is, for the Geth Fighter Base mission in ME3, Overlord is directly mentioned by Legion (He states that its the reason you are able to enter the Geth Consensus after he made some modifications), and there are references to it scattered elsewhere in ME3 as well
Overlord made me cry again in LE man. Like in the OT it wasn’t that detailed (PS3) but the amount of detail they actually made it even worse they made Gavin look like a monster with the torture he inflicted.
Christ they actually made David's eyes blood red. I actually thought it was a glitch. I can't believe his brother, he tries to rationalise it but its monstrous even the Illusive Man sees it only as a setback. I actually relate to David as I'm also on the Autistic Spectrum with low level aspergers and I'm honestly glad we don't live in an age of Mass Effect technology if it would cause people to shred Autistic peoples sanity for their own uses. Sorry I know this video was about legion on the overlord mission but I had to rant about it. I'm glad the game gives us the chance to send David to Grissom Academy
Seeing him in ME3 was so rewarding and if you bring EDI to Grissom Academy, it’s the icing on the cake! I thought I wasn’t going to see him but when I finally did, I cried tears of joy! 😭
Totally agree if one dlc was going to get a work over with a lot more content it was this one , no mention of whether they are heretics or just normal geth, no mention or elements from me3 , this could have been the moment where Shepard first saved the geth by removing David’s expanded and corrupted mind from the node, but also David wasn’t hostile to geth,so gave him A program to help him be more normal , this could explain why David was more normal at grissium, as well as why Cerberus wanted him back
The squad dialogue and even Shepard dialogue outside of obvious conversations is scarce. I think for most of the DLC's they didn't want to pay or simply couldn't get the voice actors to do lines (busy on other projects or what not) so you get a lot of parts that feel like characters should have some type of response or dialogue like a normal character would in certain situations but instead get awkward silence outside of their combat dialogue.
@@john02222 All the DLC's are like that and even parts of the main game. I think the developers were stretching out there funding and or thought what they had was enough 🤷. Makes it awkward at times. It was originally released in 2010 and one of the more extensive games at the time. Just feels a little bare playing it now.
One of the best ever story driven dlc i have ever played even the music fits so good, I have chills everytime I play it andi completed about 3-4 times now
I never know which squad mates to bring for Overlord. Miranda would be interesting to confront her with Cerberus' unethical experiments. Jack would be interesting because she herself was a victim of Cerberus' experiments. Tali is the Geth expert in the crew. Legion is a Geth himself. But apparently it doesn't matter because there is no unique dialogue whatsoever. 🤦🏼♂️
I would have loved to have seen the squad reactions to this DLC. Miranda, Jacob, Jack's, Samara's, Legion, Garrus, and Thane's reactions woukd have been interesting.
The problem with many DLC is that they feel like DLC because they were made after and they didn't get the squad members VA's back in to record any lines to make them blend in much better. I'm currently playing through LE and I never had any of the DLC before but it's usually quite obvious when they pop up
3 года назад
Is it possible in ME3 by editing the save file to bring Legion to Grissom Academy and let him meet with David? I wonder if he has any left out dialog with him?
IIRC, you don’t actually get interactions with any of your squad mates during the Overlord DLC, because BioWare didn’t contract their VA’s to provide material for it.
I might missremember something but I was told that you are able to visit the DLC missions after the end of the main game. But my game always restarts bevor the suicide mission.
For the language thing, we all know that computers speak using quantum bits. You know, 10010...matrices and such. So, they’re saying David is that talented that he can speak literal code (which is just math). Obviously this is a bit of a stretch but we are also in a world where we can travel FTL without any damage to our bodies and equipment, can wear solely a mask instead of a helmet even in different atmospherics pressure environments so...
I hate this mission and i hate gavin archer, but at least it gave me that really nice scene with david in grissom academy, i will never, ever let them kill or send him to cerberus, even at full renegade its not an option
Overlord with legion and tali at least from a gameplay standpoint is way to easy especially if your Shepard has sabotage as well you can leave the fighting to your enemies
Supposedly if you do Legion's loyalty mission where you recruit the geth before this dlc Archer ends up shooting himself from grief and regret that his brother went through all the torture for nothing.
I don’t think they were missed opportunities. Adding those opportunities would have distracted from the story and emotions provoked by David. Though, could be a rush job, but I think the story for overlord was good as is imo
I keep thinking wouldnt it be fun to play all the missions where theres some interesting unique dialogue and every time I look into this is the level where its at. a throw away line at most. The easy thing to do would be to blame EA for forcing them to rush all these games out. And like every game released under EA has had similar problems. I keep wondering what the games would have been like had they been given proper time to be developed.
I agree. The problem is that EA only caters to shareholders, so that's why they're always rushing their developers - which sucks. Even if Mass Effect still is "Legendary" in it's own right, it could have been even more so if Bioware had been allowed more "free reign" during the development of Mass Effect 2 & 3.
*That* was the controversial part? In a game where you routinely mow down dozens of enemies and people are blown limb from limb? I thought it would be the portrayal of David coming off as inauthentic or something. This is Mass Effect, though, not Spielberg. It's a space opera. All of the portrayals can be a bit hackneyed at times, but you roll with it. I liked the DLC, and particularly the VI talking to you through the screens throughout the mission but being unable to communicate in a way others found intelligible. All I know is, in Mass Effect whenever you find a lone scientist begging for help in a laboratory where everybody else is dead you KNOW that person is bad news. Only the evil masterminds survive the schemes they hatch. Always save a round of ammunition for the last cutscene. 😂
This one freaked me out in LE, didn't really know about or play it back in the day. Had a System Shock vibe, felt kinda bad leaving David with Cereberus but goin full Renegaddddeee.
@@randomclod385 well the email says they turn it around or whatever and find a different way I think afterwards, but I was like man this feels horrible... sooo it HAS to be worth a ton of renegade haha.
If I remember correctly if you choose to leave David with his brother and continue the experiment, then a short time later David shuts down completely and is euthanized, either by his brother personally or by Cerberus personnel under orders from TIM, not sure which. The above information is based on information I gained from the wiki long ago so it might have been retconned since then. I will check.
I always do it for the sake of Mass Effect 3 I'm not entirely sure but thank you get War assets if you do it but the mission is a bother no dialogue with squadmates makes it hard for people who like to role-play like me
I do this DLC because of the extra dialogue you get in ME3 as well as saving David Archer from being consumed by the VI. I dislike how he was treated because it shows just how f*cked up Cerberus really is.
I usually skip it because I fucking hate fighting the Geth and their nearly unstoppable troops. They ignore catastrophic damage and keep blasting you with aimbot-level fire, making it an incredible pain in the ass to progress. Juggernauts in 3 are the worst for this.
@@graysonb_designs I use a soldier class in Mass Effect. With fire or disrupt or ammo an the right weapon, I had no problem with the geth. I can’t speak for other classes so I can’t gage how difficult it is with them. All I know is that when that song kicks on, I’m ready to whoop ass
It would be a mistake...unless you play it after the final mission. Because after recruiting Legion you only have time left for one mission (which you should choose for Ligion's loyalty mission) efore your abducted crew members starts dying.
i am unfortunately one of the people who skip it. i tried a few times but i just can't get past that part of geth ship vs you in the hammerhead. which i'm really sorry for because i do think it's the best dlc in the whole trilogy. the story hits like no other does and it makes me sad to think that every time i play david is left for death by bombardment even though he was the victim so fuck, and i mean it with full disrespect, the hammerhead
With the DLC, it seems like the intent was to shock Shep and the player near the end of the game, further solidifying the end decision, if you survive, to leave Cerberus. They do a lot of truly terrible things that stack up pretty quickly. However, this could have been done in such a better way in my opinion, mostly with the dialogue and the language used. An additional thing that bothered me personally is that at no point does Shep, Paragon or Renegade, address David directly. It's clear he's conscious, he's present, he's dealing with an unimaginable amount of trauma, he's speaking; yet all Shepherd ever does is talk about him like he's not there, like he's an object as opposed to a person. The whole arc honestly makes me sick, but I force myself to play through it each time because I refuse to let David continue to go through it. He may not actually be real, but still.
It might be intentional. In a lot of cases, people with a medical condition, mental or otherwise, will be talked about by those around them as if they're not there. It would have been nice if a paragon Shepard would talk directly to him, to break that trend though.
