MASSIVE changes to LCS, CBLOL feat. TL Steve, Kelby May and LS | Hotline League 323 

00:00:00 Intro 00:28:28 boggles' take: though the changes feel bad now, they might be better for the long term 00:51:24 NEW SPONSOR!! KIA break! 00:57:30 LS joins HLL! 01:17:40 darklight gives some CBLoL perspective, worries that an unhealthy rivalry will form now 01:53:30 Red's take: these changes might kill LCS entirely 02:16:45 Outro

Yoooo!! Shoutout Kia for sponsoring TGI, Hotline League, and League of Legends in general. Those sponsorships led me to put the Sportage on my shopping list as a real contender. Congrats Travis, stoked you have a sponsor again.

Steve actually coming onto HLL for topics like this, is one of the reasons TL is my favorite team. Let’s go TL!! Can’t wait to see them back on stage.

THANK YOU KIA! I can't wait for summer LCS to start! All the changes next year are a bit overwhelming and scary, but I am tentatively excited

I just bought a Kia K5 GT, thank you Kia! 2:03:35 I also don’t want to undersell that point, the LCS is an identity & as a long time viewer if we lose that then the scene in North America is in trouble.

The Brazilian caller actually was the Goat, I knew cblol as a product was doing well but actually hearing the fans perspective of it and why they don’t like the merge made a lot of sense. It sucks when you have cultivated a winning formulate from scratch with no help and are now forced to change things up because of the global state of esports.

It's really sad, that it feels like most if not all the conversation is around CBLOL and LCS. No one is talking about how LLA got absolutely blasted. You get rid of all their teams BUT 2 and then split them geographically in a way that would not work for LCS and CBLOL (otherwise there wouldn't be 2 conferences). And how does the LLA broadcast work now, all that talent has to do two streams of regions they don't belong to? Or they do a stream only for the games that their teams play? Brazil gets to play more against LCS, so they should in theory get better, so they should be better internationally, so their league will grow even larger. Because from what the caller said, even when their teams do terrible they still watch, so even if 4 teams get cut, they will still watch. LCS gets to trim more fat, and most likely will go through a rebrand so it looks like a fresh new product for investors, and they have a tier 2 system thst in theory should fix the "gate keeping" from Academy. One of the players today after a game in LLA was like "I'm happy I could should up for my fans, even if this is the last time we will be here". How do you play a whole split knowing 66% of your league is gone next year with the other 33% getting moved to two compeltely different regions. It's going to be an interesting 2025 for League in the "Americas"

Hey @travisgafford, I'm pretty familiar with the Brazilian league, I am an American native but lived in Brazil for a number of years and speak Portuguese fluently. Let me know if you would like help or need someone who can be an intermediary between regions.

Brazil has had the right idea here from the start. LCS and NA would not be in the sorry state it is now if it focused more and celebrated more the regional competition and not have succsess at worlds be the only thing that matters ever. I have always liked LCS, it is my favourite region to watch. And that has never had anything to do with how they do at worlds.

Kia sponsoring the dive and hotline league has me window shopping even though I don’t need a new car

Genuinely curious how Kelby can so confidently have the "trust Riot, they have the data" take when looking at the history of the LCS. Especially the last what... five years? The "data" also said moving to weekdays was fine. The "data" also said that Friday Night League was going to be big and positive for the scene. The "data" also said best of 3 was impossible for years and terrible for the league but now they are doing that. I could give more examples, and go further back for even worse ones. My point is, for me as a long time LCS fan who has watched off and on since I was in high school in 2013 why in the hell would I EVER trust anything Riot says to me? I understand that this is a decision that probably needed to be made for the financial security long-term of not just the LCS but league esports globally, but man acting like Riot is god's gift to esports and they only make decisions that are reasoned and factually based is wild.

THIS IS FOR KABUM! #Neverforget

It's actually fucking hilarious hearing Steve say "Yes, competitiveness, but that's not everything, Travis!" The irony is actually gold lmao

Okay, I know I said I'd buy whatever your next sponsor was selling but maybe I could do like a keychain or a t-shirt. Although, real talk, could you tell KIA to make a car with manual transmission?

Congrats on the sponsorship Travis! I'm glad Riot is doing something. I'd rather watch a smaller-scale LCS with dedicated teams, than slowly watch the LCS die off. Also, promotion into LCS is gonna be hype

Big shout out to KIA. I love driving my KIA Forte GT & I’m happy to see TGI having a great sponsorship

I find myself aligning more and more with Cubby's comments the longer he hangs around. I know he isn't our "constant" co-host (still laugh a bit that Travis leaves that out now), but he really does bring a lot to the show.

is funny that the take is: "they are using us for engagement" and not "riot don't give a f about all these mid teams that exist in these regions and want to cut some corners and lose less money"

Super excited for these changes. Totally understand people (especially central and South Americans) being very down on this, but I think the vast majority will be very happy with how this turns out by this time next year.

Yoo, that’s sick that Kia is sponsoring you Travis! I need a new car and a I’ll have to give the kias a test drive now and check them out!

Great episode, thank you for giving so much time to the caller from Brazil. My wife drives a KIA and it's great! I'm glad to see them sponsor such a great product/person/industry.

I'd like to add, as a former R6 competitive player (at the pro level), this situation reminds me HEAVILY of the ESL to Blast changes that happened some time ago in R6. ESL had the regions very split up, almost down to countries in some situations (I remember EU West vs Nordic being a hot conversation piece for awhile), even down to their communities and the clash-esque tournaments they would run. When Blast took over the pro scene, regions got changed drastically, more splits added, more majors in general, to increase competitive play internationally. prime example was for years, Penta/G2 ran the pro scene, winning the Six Invitational quite a bit, and through time, and Blast eventually shaking things up, LATAM came up to par and ended up taking the fight to a lot of these EU/NA teams that were really running the shows, and even surprise regions like APAC now having more majors and serious play, they would come in and shock a lot of fans with how they play and the passion the fans bring to the region. All in all, my point is, on paper, and in practice, this is a good thing. I'm hoping for the best, and hoping it'll not only help viewership and the like, but also the competitiveness of the regions. Making people care more about their splits, practices, scrims, etc, and act as a breath of life into the scene as a whole. Just my take.

Splitting up LLA was one of the strangest parts of the announcements. Both LLA teams should've went to either LCS or CBLOL.

Considering a Kia Carnival so this sponsorship news makes it even better

I'm from the Boise area, thanks for the kind words Cubby

Appreciate darklight's calm and structured explanation of the CBLoL perspective. Not an easy thing to do on such an emotional topic.

Haven’t watched in like a month this is going to be a great episode! Finally guest I recognize

Awesome work Travis. I'll be buying a KIA as my next car!

They talked about 2018 C9. And as a C9 fan heres a fun fact about C9. Since 2018, I believe they've had Jensen, Nisqy, Perkz, Diplex, Emenes, Fudge, Jensen (Again), and Jojo as mid laners. Mid being the most "turbulent" role they've had. Something cool I noticed (and I could have missed a mid laner I wssn't active in the early 2021-2023 of lcs

Im sorry but being from OCE, domestic competition only gets you so far, CBLOL is maybe currently in the 2019 stage of LCS but eventually this will end as its not sustainable! what the brazil callers is talking about (narrative etc.) is all things LCS fans were talking about, with these changes CBLOL is still going to be there (essentially the same) its just 7 teams instead of 10, as the guest team has to be from their tier 2 system, so the team of young talent he was talking about is likely just going to be that 7th team so they will still exist. All their operating costs are still going to be in brazil, as i understand it each team will still require 3 native southern conference players, so 3 brazil players minimum. The only thing that's essentially changing is they get to play LCS more which will help them improve, and they get a shot at the extra worlds spot which is what the caller was only talking about wanting. If they keep growing like the caller claims they eventually will get that spot almost every year. This is a non-biased perspective, brazil fans were delusional if they ever thought CBLOL on its own was going to get another worlds spot. Heck OCE even in its dying moments made it past play-ins MSI something brazil has never done, if anything this is detrimental to the LCS as they are losing a worlds spot and teams, having to play games against worst opposition, to essentially help out Brazil, to improve. This is someone's perspective from the outside looking in. Not to mention CBLOL teams get access to American viewers and therefore American sponsorships, and therefore more revenue. TLDR, Outside perspective, LCS are actually the ones who lose from this and CBLOL are the big gainers

Shout out to KIA for sponsoring my favorite podcast I’ve been planning to buy a car this year been on the fence between a KIA stinger or an MX5 I think this just pushed me toward the stinger

insane how much this podcast is up in riot ass

Was thinking about getting a jeep this summer but might grab a Kia instead!

Definitely needed to watch the dive cause a lot of these were answered by Mark

"TRASHES LA IN EVERY ASPECT" Yeah man, reeeaaaal high bar youre setting 😂.

I'll definitely consider a Kia as my next car; very glad Travis found a great sponsor :D

Tbh if it they made a tournament between americas cblol fans would be hyped, but the thing about taking off teams was the thing that the most affected us. We Brazilians dont care bout improving we know we suck lmao

What happens if TL or FQ NACL teams win the qualifier?

So happy to hear TGI has a sponsor. Beyond deserved. Thanks for your dedication to the League scene Travis! I'm beyond excited to see what these new changes bring.

Hey, idk if was, but would be nice to invite a 1 or 2 brazilians fans

35:00 Lmaooo, Brazilian fans are gonna be pissed when LCS imports all of their good players and sends them a bunch of leftovers.

the brazil guy might be my fave caller ever lol, very interesting to hear their points

another great show travis

what i would find super interestingis if because they are now conferences any player from latam or brazil don't count towards imports cause its the same ecosystem and vice-versa, now that its a interesting prospect to me roster wise...

Eyyy, good shit, Kia

Cutting out the number of teams in Brazil is not just getting fewer stories, but is cutting history. Most of the teams in Brazil has thousands of supporters that been following their team for years (some more than 10 years, like INTZ and Kabum). It's just like you are a Green Bay Packer fan and the next day you wake up with someone saying "Packers are out of NFL due to low viewership in Europe".

A lot of the CBLOL sentiment seems to revolve around people stating that the 'LCS is dying' so consistently that there's no way our sharing a region could make them feel anything but disdain toward being connected to the LCS. I can understand the idea of being upset about losing teams... But honestly, without the constant negativity surrounding the LCS I doubt the reaction would be nearly as toxic. At least the CBLOL perspective is on par with our own Reddit now. We do it to ourselves.

Thank god they had ls instead of fans. Most of the fans’ take are shit. Less callers more celebrities! Maybe 1 random caller per show

Cubby with the Brazilian flag in the background hahaha killing it.

Steve owning that stache.. good for you king

kelby steve oh big ep

How do you say banger in Portuguese ?

You took a shot at Fearless draft on your other video and I heard some mentions on it here... but no real discussion on the pros and cons. I think that would be a good conversation to have. I don't watch the region(s) that have implemented it so I have very little context here.

Kelby's question at 1:38:00 is kinda whack, no? Basically half the league is going away....I don't understand how one could not understand how that impacts the ability of those teams' fans to watch them play....2+2=4.

You said you didn’t like Riot dropping this news right before the split. When would you have wanted this news then? I appreciate them dropping it now rather than during or after the summer split. It definitely will be interesting to watch and see how this all plays out. Me personally, I’m bummed we lose another 2 teams, to be replaced most likely with less competitive teams. This makes sense to why DIG did what they did with this splits roster. It appears they are trying to stay in the league. I think this change is great for players as this gives them more opportunities. Yes we lost 4 teams over a year span but this gives us the opportunity to redevelop tier 2 since now it means something. Also to note each region had the opportunity to poach players in the past and it’s not something that happened every split or frequently so not sure how that would now just become a problem since it hasn’t been between them. I also believe this will help CBLOL redevelop their talent faster as maybe talent will have more of a reason to go there. Just treat it as the import rule so it doesn’t change the regions identity. All in all good for the long run, crappy for the short.

Mad props to the Brazilian fan, great insight

LS keeps saying fearless is fake but is the solution just true fearless where any champ that’s played is gone. Does that not solve the issue even for bo3s? Currently riot is implementing regular fearless

How did Travis go from his room to outside that building and back so quickly at 52:52 ???

Man, I think they're making a big mistake if they don't just let the north and south conferences just call themselves "LCS" and "CBLOL." Unless there's some legal reason why they can't (and I can't imagine why there would be), I feel like keeping the names will help fans *feel* like less has changed. I understand that it's a bit silly, but emotion plays a big role in this kind of stuff and I feel like it'd just be a very small thing to give fans more of a sense of normalcy in these trying times. Not to mention, everyone's just gonna call it LCS anyway; it took me years to stop saying EULCS, hahaha. Also, what's wrong with the LCS logo, KELBY? Ultimately, literally nobody is going to *start* watching because of a rebrand, but it's entirely possible that some casual fans will fall off because of it. You can say "the quality of the product is what's going to determine its success" all you want, and it's probably largely true, but branding and sentiment are definitely important, ESPECIALLY in sports. The whole reason why people root for their team is just because they've been rooting for them. They'll continue rooting for them even once all of the players and staff have been cycled out and the only throughlines are branding and location, and we don't have the luxury of creating fan loyalty because of location.

The EV9? Not the smaller vehicles or the Hyundai motor group's fantastic 74? If we're just trying to raise their prestige.

Kelby is very big on the appeal to authority angle

Shoutout Kia!!! I personally do not own one but my neighbor owns 4 and I'll say... I'm jealous, I really want a Kia Stinger

1:55:46 bachelor/ bachelorette travis rofl :D

Think people should have read up on import rules before some takes. Brazil and NA players are still restricted across conference. You can not have a full NA team in Brazil.

From the prospective of a LLA viewer all these angry CBLOL fans seem like ungrateful whining babies, sorry not sorry. Every other minor region got nuked pretty much, they are the only one left standing that didn't get massive cuts all things considered. Riot is acknowledging their good viewership by letting them keep the biggest amount of teams out of any region in their tier, how is that sabotage? How is that unfair? Heck, at least you still *have* a region, others weren't so lucky. There were compromises made globally by a lot of regions, even by some in tier 1. You can keep telling yourselves that Riot and the LCS are out to get you but this is just the current reality of the esport.

THANK YOU KIA!!!

Only Travis seems to have his thumb on what fandom really wants. The others throw out stretches and hopium

I just think that Brazilian fans, if they agree with the caller's oration about them, are behaving petulantly and like greedy children that are just pissed at NA despite it being LOL global making the decision. They seem to be super narrow minded and closed off, despite that not working with an international game and competitive scene.

What does LS mean by region locking?

thank you KIA!!!

Thank you Kia!

kelby simping so hard is wild

I fail to understand your take on rivalry not happening between north and south - rivalry is literally a product of competition - I cheer for team A, so naturally I’m going to cheer against whoever they play. Team B beats team A and now whenever team A faces them again I’m more intense in cheering against Team B. Rivalry. Edit: the fact that it’s also split into two conferences just BREEDS the opportunity for rivalry, it’s literally us vs them, but labelled as North vs South.

Also have a Kia if I didn't already have one I'd buy one thank you kia

I am shock and surprised to see people happy that we are losing 2 teams, as if its obvious its going to be Immortals. If they don't want to leave, and if no one wants to leave, Riot might have to randomly pick teams to leave, that will be fun though we will probably never know about it. On flip side, when Riot offer all the teams a buy out, what if most of the teams accept that? Imagine if next year we have TL and 5 other spots that Riot has to scrabble to find orgs to fill it? Plus we already saw the LCS drop from 10 to 8 teams and the mess that cause. I don't like the odds for the LCS. Also, NA/CBLOL worlds spot is not guaranteed. If a LLA wins the league and then the region fails to get the 3rd place slot, then you can have either NA or CBLoL not appearing at worlds next year.

The better not change the music from the opening show that was the shit

Viewer call-in LS got a mic downgrade to average discord user as well 💀

California Lifestyle Gaming vs Team South aMerica Needs workshopping but we're getting somewhere 😂

The lord Kelby is back...... If only it was to stay

Good to see kelby and cubby duo

I will get a kia if the new ones fixed the hijacking issue

Glad I drive a Kia

The only rational take for anyone watching this is, let’s wait and see.

I remember when I quit watching when they changed the name from nalcs to lcs. Oh wait I didn't stop watching.

Yo steve love you man but you gotta sort out that moustache lmao Oh Also all my homies love KIA, best EV car brand ever!

Just adding why brazilians fans are blaming LCS for what is happening, it is because for brazilian fans LCS = Riot Global.

To Brazilian and Na fans who joined after franchising this is the tldr of the league- Ten people paid a lot of money so five solo q players wouldn't be allowed to remove them from the league do to their consistent incompetence and extreme corporate greed. They may have gotten to play god for a few years and ruin the lcs, but fans got the last laugh as that very incompetence shows brighter than ever as they drop like flies for pennies on the dollar from the position they paid tens of hundreds of millions of dollars for with nothing but red down arrows to show for it. The only thing that is unfortunate that in their last scramble for power and greed they are sacrificing the thriving Brazilian league just like they did the thriving Na league before franchising. If I were a Brazilian fan knowing what they ruined in this league I would be fighting tooth and nail to do anything you can to never let this happen. The lcs was at one point a thriving beautiful plantation but people came along and bought the rights to control it claiming to have the answers of growth and prosperity with their tactics, and with their tactics they sprayed chemicals that allow nothing to grow, ruined the land value, ruined the natural order of this place. You can hardly call it a plantation anymore it's just a pit of sand where nothing grows, there is no land value, and is used for a landfill since that's the only value it has left. And yet as the garbage piles higher they will continue to try tell you putting more garbage on this land is actually a good thing for this place since it adds more colors to the sand. But as an Na fan let me tell you, as the pile of garbage has only grown since franchising happened the sight and smell of garbage is utterly repulsive, and the people who try to sell you on that idea seem less and less genuine. And one last thing the Brazilian viewer from Sao Paolo had the realest take on this entire show by far.

OTK x Starforge x Cincy Fear to LCS

It’s obvious why CBLOL doesn’t focus on international because they have no hope of competitive play outside of play-ins lol

I gave up playing league after Riot messed up the game state over the last 3 years, last thing I enjoyed of the game was watching the LCS now that's gone, so I guess that's it for league...bummer way to go but it is what it is.

Kelby calling out NA for not deserving the slots is so based… it’s insane that people still think NA deserves 3 slots. Imagine going down to 6 teams and thinking the top 50% should go to worlds… crazy

I don’t know how I feel about all these changes. I like the extra international event, but the merger imo seems good/bad for both regions. More bad?, esports is kinda dying. Over 100k ppl have been laid off since July last year.

KIA BOYZ!!!

Let's go kia

Riot will have to be very careful how it treats the two leagues because of the difference in culture, especially since Brazilians and Americans are patriotic as hell.

rivalries require back and forth and history. neither of those exist.

Thank you Kia, if your car weren't so shit, I wouldve considered buying it instead of RA4!!!

I don't think the brazilians realize this mergers gives them drastically more money. They will get money from lol microtransactions and the money LCS will bring in. The darklight caller spoke some about the money aspect, but this merger helps them get more money which also goes into (and partially solves) his point about it being unfair financially.

I wish the have Steve talk more.

I'm just excited LCS is finally having some changes to make it more competitive.