I'm pretty sure The Joker saying that he's not a guy with a plan is just him manipulating people. He's erratic, sure, but he constantly makes intricate plans throughout the movie, despite saying to people that he doesn't have plans and is just pure chaos. It throws people off and confuses them, plus it makes his point better. I also think the whole purpose of getting the money and then just burning it is to make a point that he doesn't care about money. I haven't watched it in ages, though, so I could be wrong. Maybe he just wanted to basically steal as much money from them as he could as well, though I can't remember well enough.
Israel Storey The Joker himself plainly reveals the motive of burning the money. He's not burning all of his cut. Only the majority of it. Because he doesn't need it. Most of the mob money is traditionally used for bribes and such for political and judicial influence and stuff like that. Things he doesn't care about. He only need money for explosives and fanatical goons. Which, as he explains, are relatively cheap by comparison. Why burn it? To further seem reckless, unpredictable, without regard for future unforeseen needs because he wants them to see him as truly living only for the moments. Surfing the waves of chaos. As long as he knows that his opponents cannot predict his next move he knows they cannot stop him. Also it's flamboyant, theatrical and fun. And some men only want to see the world burn.
Exactly. The Joker's goal, in a bizarre way, is the same as Batman's, the same as Dent's. He wants to take out the mob, but not because of any sense of their moral corruption: they're the established order. Their world, as he describes it, was orderly, simple: the mob did its business, the cops took bribes and looked the other way. Guys like him couldn't fit into a system like that. So you upend that system, convince the mob that you're helping them, then "cut them up and feed them to their pooches." The Joker's Plan is to cut the head off of both fish, so to speak. Take out the mob, take out the city government, unleash the beasts.
Dude, the amount of back up plans the Joker had in place. The Joker himself causes chaos by causing it. Not by being it. Why was there a guy with a bomb in his belly at the police station. By chance? What about how he set up the streets to take down Dent in the back of the police truck. I assume he had guys all over the place at every exit of the underground roads from the moment he forced the cops under. If you don't think he planned that all, reflect on how he forced people onto boats with the bombs... Totally agree with this comment.
John Locke Also for some reason he felt the need to insult the movie everywhere he could. He also said it was a "plot hole" that the Joker went to all that trouble to burn the money. That's the Joker, buddy. He will go to incredible lengths just to put a wrench in everyone else's plans. That's why he put all that effort in. He loves screwing with everyone else.
Samuel Bennett And the worst part is why go through all that trouble to burn that money...Well mate he says it hinself its not about money its about sending a message...He clearly wants authority and proves how bad he is with that
They're not necessary, per see, just extremely difficult to avoid, specially when dealing with a complex plot and a lot of action. A lot of times a plot hole is just a tiny diversion from reality to get things moving, and there's no problem with that. Things only get bad when the plot holes become too obvious to miss and end up destroying the verisimilitude of the whole movie, which becomes easier the more realistic a movie tries to be. I don't think the plot holes in the Dark Knight are a deal breaker, but they're certainly distracting.
"Joker's apparent hability to teletransport is a plothole. " Not explaining or showing how he gets around is not a plot hole. Plot holes are inconsistencies in the plot itself...established internal logic broken, The most common/popular example is deus ex machina.
Deus Ex Machina is not a plot hole -- it's a plot convenience. It's very different. But the question remains: How the fuck did the Joker get inside Wayne Manor? The reason the movie didn't show it is because the filmmakers probably couldn't figure it out and were counting on the audience not noticing that flaw.
I think joker is a man with a plan, because I'm pretty sure the Joker told Harvey Dent that he was a "man without a plan" to convince him that he had nothing to do with the death of Rachel Dawes, when in fact he did. In that same scene he is holding down the firing pin on the revolver, in case Harvey does decide to shoot him after flipping the coin. it is in line with the other things he does, like having the grenades in his coat as a precaution. He is a man with a plan. Crazy and anarchistic nonsense plans, but plans never the less.... I could be %100 wrong on this lol but that's just what I thought. This was another great video! and I love your channel, I always learn a lot from it.
good information. But you seriously need to find a better more ordered and systematic way of delivering said information. This felt like a video for an assignment in 1 semester of film school.
The main fault of this video is declaring that the joker did not have a plan. He obviously does but lies to such people as Harvey Dent to manipulate him. just like he lied about Rachel and Harvey's whereabouts to Batman by switching them. This is pretty easy to pick up, in regards to this video trying to be insightful but not picking up on the basics...
Great video. One thing: they didn't break the 180 line. The line is re-established when Joker turns to Gamble (sp?) - J looks frame left and G looks frame right. If you look at the diagram, there's kind of a triangle between the three characters, and the camera shoots each point from the opposite side. This is a common practice in scenes with more than two character so you preserve continuity on each cut. If Gamble was shot over Joker's right shoulder instead of his left, that would've been a jarring mismatch that would have confused the scene.
"Riddled with 100s of plot holes".. ? If it is riddled, you can't be sure they are plot holes. Joker is an unpredictable guy orchestrating chaos. He is a man with great great plans.. his saying about plans is just persuading opponents. I think you got most of the plot wrong. And, second best batman movie? Many would say it's the best movie ever.
i admire all your videos, but this one is a downer compared to your high standard. if you think these things are plot holes, you should watch the movie again and make sure to pay more attention to story and character than to the technical aspects.
Literally the only person outside the Dark Knight universe who took something the Joker said at face value. You actually believed he never had a plan, and you think bringing grenades to a mob meeting after stealing from them violates that assertion. Wow. "...undreds of such plot holes..." #Fail 0/10
The camera jumping around much more later in the scene also is not a problem because the room has a very simple setup, everyone stays at their spot, and by that point we've already become very familiar with where everyone is in relation to each other.
The Joker isn't supposed to not have a plan. He just says that to manipulate Dent. Clearly everything he did was a plan. Even the Joker in the comics is supposed to have plans, he is one of the most intelligent characters. that intelligence and his insanity are a deadly combination. Also his main intention wasn't to get the money, it was to manipulate the mobsters. SO THOSE ARE NOT PLOT HOLES, THATS RIDICULOUS.
I think that when the Joker shows the grenade, he look up at Gambold to think, for half a second, that he has the upper than. The movement upwards makes our eyes meet his stupified face. That way, we feel the same shock Gambol felt, but since we saw the grenade before that, we can foccus on the reaction rather than trying to understand what caused it.
Very good. My favorite scene in all the trilogy is the Arkham Asylum rescue scene of Rachel Dawes. It's just so effective in establishing the increased tension the presence of Batman has on the criminal element, and it's also a "back on the horse" moment as he triumphs where he previously failed (against Crane's fear toxin). You just get the sense that the thugs know that true justice is lurking above them waiting to strike. I know you might be wanting to do something different than TDK films but I'd love it if you considered analyzing that scene.
Of course The Joker has a plan. He says he's not a guy with a plan because he's bullshit, and Nolan establishes this by having The Joker tell different stories of how he got those scars, remember? The Joker lies a lot. And after the pencil trick he would have been shot in real life, but Nolan introduced the metal detectors to establish they have no guns in their... "little group therapy sessions".
The Dark Knight is without a doubt a study in fantastic direction and acting, not to mention the superb music score all culminating in a perfect production of film making.
i enjoyed the video but i´d recommend a bit more sharp writing,with less strong pauses and more connections between ideas,fluidity. Oh and try to avoid a judgment of the movie overall,we are watching a kind of class,not an in depth review(nor do i care what you really think about the movie really,no offense).
Ummm WAT This video was dizzying. Also.. Joker says he has no plan. But that's his character. As has been said. He's manipulative and is one of the most complex schemers there are.
Hello, Sareesh. Your video of the Dark Knight is very informative and insightful. I love how you discribe camera placement and movement in relation to character dynamics and how Nolan use this techinque to convey who the characters are and what they want. I've been following you for quite sometime and I think what you are doing here is great, especially for someone that is going to film school for cinematography. Your video on famous cinematographers inspires me to become better at my craft. I admitt that I don't look at your website much, but I will check that out as well. Thank you.
The only ridiculous part of the entire film lies in this iconic scene...where Laos watches all the mobstars and the joker without any camera set with the TV ....you should have marked this mistake on this video.. Except for this.. You did a good analysis
Afridi Rahman My best guess for the absent camera is that the scene wouldn’t be able to be taken as seriously in the future with a dated camera being visible. Do you really think the filmmaker just happened to forget to put a camera? I don’t think so.
That was very in depth! Thanks for this! However I think you are wrong about the joker's burning the money as a plothole or discontinuity in motivation. Nolan establishes mid way through the movie that the joker does what he does for the sport of it, and him going through all of the trouble with the mob and getting their money and burning is part of that anarchist and senselessly chaotic attitude
I love your attention to detail to all of your analyzations of all the videos you do! Besides that you strip much of the content from it's subliminals probably moreso then the subject itself knows, awesome breakdowns AND most importantly you are very coherent and have a unique COHERENT... (had to mention that again, lol) ... way of sharing your evolving knowledge, THANK YOU for your work, looking to further delve into your earlier posts as well as your future!
Another great video. Nice to see you incorporate a bit of humor and a few more personal touches to this one. Really adds to the enjoyment of your content. May I suggest you do one on Inglourious Basterds someday in the future?
Great video! Yet I would argue, the fact that the Joker acts "out of character" as you say is not a plot hole, is just Nolan's way yo say that the Joker is full of shit. Just like his "how I got these scras" stories. For most of the movie you can't believe anything the Joker says, case and point, when Batman believes in the adress he gave him it ended up being switched. Maybe the one time he is being honest is when he says: "No, I'm not..." answering to wether he is crazy or not, and that is what's scary about him.
You should 100% do a video about Fincher utilizing close ups in "Gone Girl" in the scene between Neil Patrick Harris is in dialogue with Ben Affleck at Neil Patrick Harris' home. It's interesting how it starts out wide and with each cut, the close ups grow more extreme, creating more tension. Definitely check it out. I just started watching your channel, so I don't know if you did "Gone Girl" or not, but I learned a ton from it.
Old news. Hitchcock used to do that. Watch The Birds, or Psycho. Everybody learned it from Hitch. The greatest director in the history of cinema. Period.
How about the guy on TV also turning his head towards same direction of others as well to see Joker during his entrance? Shouldnt it to be the opposite side(mirror nature of cameras/video calls) ?
I don't see any plot holes with joker setting up the mob into position he wanted, taking money and burning them. The theme I clearly see here is IRONY and CHAOS. It's pretty consistent with his character. I'm not saying this movie is perfect and it doesn't have any inconsistencies, but I was really surprised you've picked those exact scenes to mention plot holes. The IRONY in my humble opinion is that Joker left the mob thinking they hired him because they operate in a way where they think they control everything with money but in reality Joker is using them to get what he wants. If you disagree with that particular explanation you can think about his character main theme as IRONY in general - he said he has no plan, but again, it can all be just his cruel sarcastic nature. And don't forget about how psychopaths operate in real life. They can say and act pretty inconsistently too.
The pencil trick was an awesome scene, both on script and film :) By the way, I believe you did never analyse Woody Allen's films concerning blocking and cinematography. Recently he's worked with Vittorio Storaro but in all his movies, there is an approach that I find is more loose on blocking than the more convencional shot/reverse shot. I have followed your cinematography series, sometimes watching them several times. What I believe is that, anyhow, there is a very characteristic cinematography in all Woody Allen movies that does not come from the cinematographers alone. Thank you :)
I know La La Land got a already a lot buzz from the media, but still I would like to hear you talking about the Movie or Damien Chazelle's Directing. There are a lot of elements you can analyze. For example locations, colour, camera movement, the gap between reality and dream, directing choices, character/story development. He also did Whiplash which is a very exciting movie, too. (I imagine talking about the Close-up scenes on the teacher or the colour of the movie.) Thank you for making these helpful videos!
The jokers plan is to concince everyone around him that he does not have a plan he's plan is the same as bane in that he was atempting to instigate chaos one of the differences is that the joker wants chaos to be created seemingly by chaos even if it was thought out and planned he doesn't want it to look that way. Its the art of he's criminalism that make him an amazing villain, its how he conducts he's evil which is something that Nolan is attempting to show us. Nolan is essentially thinking like him in the pencil trick scene. How can I show the intriquet eccentricy in this man while showing it in the scene to rove he's affect on everything around him
He can't. Because this video maker doesn't understand movies or storytelling. Besides, Roger Deakins is the greatest DP in the world, and Wally Pfister got lucky and he can't repeat the same craft over and over again in various budgeted films. Roger Deakins is the great master in any budget. There's no comparing the Cohen Bros to this hack in reelsack Christopher useless Nolan.
My favorite scene is with Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro in conversation from the movie Heat. But I'm not sure if that scene is great or if that scene is great because of the two great actors just being in the scene.
Contradictions in characterization isn't a "plot hole". Real life people do hold contradicting views all the time. The Joker wants to look like a man without a plan, because he is a man with a message, and he has a plan on how to send it. Jesus.
Agent of chaos. Unpredictable, even to himself. Joker clearly had plans (such as showing Bats that Gotham would turn evil given the opportunity) but I think he his statement to Dent implied that he had no long range plans. People are always trying to control others to their own personal objectives. Joker's objectives always change depending on what interests him at the time and he plans just enough to get through achieve a goal within reach, but that’s it. Why he loves Bats is that Bats keeps things interesting and gives Joker something to do. The Joker didn’t know Bats would save Dent or even if he would choose Dent over Rachel, Joker just loved the game. If Bats, Dent, and Rachel died in the blasts, Joker would have found something else to entertain him.
Also joker is not insane, he is crazy. So "he just do things" (scene in hospital between two face and the joker) he plans each n every move. He just manipulates others by saying he is the guy without plan, but he of course has the plan for he n every move he makes, Gordon says, "joker wanted us to capture him". And this is automatically explained by ledger's acting cz when Gordon catches the joker, he is not bothered at all. But at the end when swat catches him he is bothered as he didn't plan for it.
I love the fact that somebody said "The Dark Knight" is riddled with many plot holes. Not to diss the movie or anything, 'cause I love the movie very very much. But it should be acknowledged that like 'Rises' TDK too has lots of plot holes. That's just fact.
When The Joker says "Do I really look like a guy with a plan? You know what I am? I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it! You know...I just do things." he's talking about a grand plan for Gotham. He is the dog. Gotham is the car. Batman, Dent and Gordon had plans for Gotham. They wanted to weed out the corruption. The Mob's plan is to keep it's stranglehold on Gotham, so they can continue to function as a criminal enterprise. The Joker doesn't want anything for, or from Gotham. He doesn't want power, or money, or to make it a better place. "Some men just want to watch the world burn." So yes, he still makes plans. Rigs scenarios to cause the most fear, death and chaos. That takes planning to kidnap people, plant bombs and so forth, but he isn't doing those things for any grand purpose other than for his own amusement. He's playing the game with no intention of winning the spoils of war the way everyone else is. He just wants to tear it all down, and watch it burn. Even when he does actually catch the car (Gotham) by dismantling the mob and breaking the spirit of Batman by killing Rachael and burning Dent, he still just uses it to keep playing his sadistic games like with the two ferry boats.
I'm sorry, but you completely misunderstood the movie and the character of the joker. In minute 2 you say that the fact that joker come with grenades at the meeting doesn't make sense because he has no plan. You probably get this message from the meeting between the joker and Harvey Dent. But in that scene the joker is completely lying to Harvey. Throughout the movie we see that the joker plans everything with accuracy to reach his goals, so he's lying to Harvey making him believe that he is not the real enemy. Anyway it's well explained in the finale..
That was a pretty good analysis and breakdown on a scene. Since you asked for some suggestions for analysis, I would love to see an analysis of "Coin toss scene" from 'No country for old men'. Hope you will do it.
Really informative essay as always! Though I have a concern- out of curiosity: You always say "Nolan uses the Camera to tell XY". Isn't that the actual job of the Cinematographer? I mean surely as a Director you need to know much about cinematography. But as I understand the Job of a DP, the DP is supposed to help the Director tell the Story through the Camera (Deciding how to move the Cam, where to position the camera, what lenses to use, when to break the 180° rule ect.). Nolan is a real camera geek, as shown by his love for Film, anamorphic format and using the clunky, jet visually stunning iMax cameras, but isn't the actual camera work is done by the DP namely Wally Pfister? At least I thought the DP was the guy deciding all the technical stuff (although I know that a lot of these decisions are made collaborative throughout the making of the movie), in order to let the director do the directing.
Thanks. The director is in charge of the framing and the lenses, though he/she has the prerogative to delegate that responsibility to the DP. Overall though, it's not a fixed relationship (except the director's decision is final). It works best when they both agree more often than disagree.
Not really. It varies. Case in point: STANLEY KUBRICK...and others...basically Kubrick planned everything down to the lens that was being used and all the DP/Cinematographer did was occasionally offer ideas (that might not be used) and maybe act as camera operator. It really depends on the director. Some are more collaborative while others know what they want; after all, the director IS responsible for realizing the visual AND dramatic parts of a movie (although, no, they aren't in charge of everything; the producers are; they essentially hire everyone, raise the money, and possibly more).
The Joker isn't insulted by the term "freak". He's annoyed that Gambol is using it in a derogatory context, because the Joker believes so-called freaks of his variety have transcended everyone else in their way of acting and thinking. That's one of the reasons why is drawn to Batman; he is a freak like him.
You have a great channel and you really know what you're talking about! Can you please please PLEASE analyze the tower/sonar vision scene in The Dark Knight?
I don't think its fair to say that either of them were out of character. The black guy was only in one scene so you can't say he broke character. When joker said he "never has a plan" that was him manipulating Dent, I think its within his character to have thought ahead and planted the grenades,
I don’t understand why you are trying to discredit a pretty well built well shot movie with great acting as a superhero movie joy ride just meant for fun, over all not a good video
I really dont believe they are plot holes in relation to the joker. I think nolan is trying to essuntate the madness in the meticulous life of the joker. Hes obsessive, meticulous but insane. I also think the scene where gamble gets up is showing the balance of power, hes a big man and challenging the joker. but i really like your breakdown. its such an amazing trilogy.
At 2.36 you said dark knight has plot holes!!! Then I'm sry man but I think you haven't understood the exact meaning of the character of the joker in this film that nolan & ledger wanted to present i.e. "agent of chaos". please watch the scene where Alfred explains the joker to Bruce "some men just want to watch the world burn" and also where joker burns all the money, he says, "this town deserves a better class of criminals & I'm gonna give it to them". These are not plot holes. This is as perfect as it can be in "any" film irrespective of its genre.
The jokers objective in this movie is to turn gotham to chaos and to strip the peoples hope down to nothing, via Harvey Dent. He wants to turn Harvey into a criminal like him. He doesn't care about the money, he just wants to use those criminals to gain power and reach his goals easier. Once he's reached his goals he gives him self a new objective, to terrorize those people in the boats. That's what he means by, "Do I really look like I guy with a plan." He doesn't have any one goal he just does what he wants.
the thing about these characters is everything the Joker does is meticulously calculated, and just as smart as batman. They both underestimate each other. joker is user to "ripping of mob dealers" batman is use to taking down mob dealers, so the entire movie is them adapting constantly to fight each other. In the end nobody wins and is more of a draw.
You speak about Nolan as he were a Master in blocking scenes, but he is not. He's a good storyteller, but not necesary a Master on composing movement. Kurosawa, Hitchcock, P.T Anderson, Spielberg... Those are masters in blocking. Nolan is masterful in other aspects.
Interesting....just a little confusing with so much info at once. I felt your thoughts a little out of order and many scenes being re-played with different commentaries.
Nolan's Joker was never Joker... He was a mixture of Anarchy & Joker... as like as the courtroom sequence of TDK Rises, where Dr. Crane (scarecrow) says the sentences... I always think Harvey Dent should be there with his coin... not Crane with his wooden justice hammer
This is all we need - another 'dissection' of Nolan(actually more of a takedown) by some self designated know-all who feels his knowledge of Adobe pro/Final cut somehow validates his woeful blah blah blah
"in the real world, someone would shoot him dead." First of all, it's not a real world. Second, the guns and arms were all collected while entering the kitchen. Third, the guys are not lunatics like the Joker, they are at an organized meeting. Any sane boss would want to know Joker's proposition for he has fooled them all in a great way.
