The scene with the RAF officers pissed me off so much I actually flipped the TV off. Nearly didn’t go back. I understand the need for exposition for those with less knowledge about the war going in, but it struck me as deeply clumsy and unnecessary. I would have thought Orloff might have understood that nobody - least of all fighting airmen - would have said those things to men who were risking their lives and losing their friends every time they went up. I’ve had to half-force myself to continue watching. I wouldn’t say I’m really enjoying it, though it is kinda interesting. I found Bucky to be deeply unlikable throughout. Not sure how much of that is down to the performance, but I feel like Callum Turner, was miscast. Not a shred of charm to him at all.
I wish Peter Jackson or Christopher Nolan would get on and remake the Dambusters. I've watched a lot of documentaries and the original movie recently. An elite group of young airmen in the lastest aircraft, on a top secret mission, attacking an incredibly difficult and important target, with little chance of success. Precision flying at low level, against heavy fire from towers. It's basically Top Gun or Star Wars in WW2 with probs, that actually took place.
Read the book, terrifying, horrific and heartbreaking, I have nothing but respect for all allied air crews. No tv series will ever be perfect or properly portray what happened to these extraordinary men. Just thankful my dad didn’t get his wish to be a tail gunner and became a British paratrooper, which was hard enough in itself. Also just thankful for seeing big budget WW2 series being made. P.S nice Mk 2 Viper 😊
@damcasterspod apparently the new bsg series isn't a total reboot and stays within the Ron Moore universe, im hoping its to do with the freed centurions who went off on their own basestar. Have seen all 4 series of For all mankind, as a fan of all things nasa and space race I find it fascinating, brilliant writing
Of all the advanced reviews, this is one of the better ones. Especially, since you perfectly predicted which lead duo the audience would respond well towards. The two Bucks were incredibly lackluster leads, and as an American I am baffled as to why they were anything more than supporting characters. I suspect John Orloff purposely wrote Egan to be unsympathetic, but Callum Turner may have lacked the self-awareness to figure it out. While, Austin Butler just seemed to be miscast to me, and Cleven had virtually no personality. Had “Masters of the Air” been centered around Rosie Rosenthal and Harry Crosby, it would have instantly fixed many of the issues with the series. Not only were they more nuanced characters, both would have lent a unique perspective and commentary on the air campaign. Since they grew to become friends out of so much loss, and still respected each other despite their differing opinions.
I still feel that the show was such a missed oportunity and I think the filmakers got lost in the battle between the Don Miller book and the heart of Crosby's memoir. It does seem to have done well for Apple so hopefully we'll see other, more focused aviation tales, told in the future. Thanks for watching!
@@damcasterspod - Complete agree about the miniseries being a missed opportunity. While I enjoyed “Masters of the Air” more than “The Pacific”, I was still left disappointed. The 100th was the perfect inspiration, due to their unique experience and story. Yet, the producers were stuck in the past and just wanted to rehash the tropes from “Band of Brothers”. Donald Miller seems to be the one historian who attempts to underplay the significance of Robert Rosenthal being Jewish, and how that affected the decisions he made. Which as a Jewish person, really rubs me the wrong way. Just because it was not Rosenthal’s only motivation, does not mean it was not a motivation. Nate Mann said it best, when he quoted his own grandfather, “I have a responsibility to the society that allows me - a Jew - to live”. That despite all the antisemitism in the USA, the US military, and the world at large, Jewish-Americans understood how important it was for the Allies to win.
@@damcasterspod - As for the filmmakers and producers…. it seems Hanks and Spielberg assumed (when reading Don Miller’s book) that Cleven, Egan, and Rosie were “the Three Musketeers” of the 100th. Which makes the decision to keep that idea, after John Orloff found Crosby’s memoir and did the in-depth research, all the more baffling. As there was virtually no overlap between their tours-of-duty, and that Rosie was essentially Cleven and Egan’s replacement.
Just finished watching the first 2 episodes. The cgi looked better than the trailers. The scene with the RAF guys was clumsy exposition for the casual viewer.
I've read the book and really liked it. He covers a lot of topics but it's very 8th Air Force centric, hence he doesnt talk much about the Tuskeegee airmen. They were in the Mediteranean theatre (weren't they?) so I'm guessing that episode is set in Italy? I forgot all about For All Mankind, didn't realise the 4th season had been released.
@@ww2hungary827 However, the book and movie is about the bomber war/campaign, not fighter command. And the 332nd flew cover mostly for the 15th, and I understand flew cover for the 8th on some of their return legs from a mission.
4 episodes in...This is by far the worst CGI I've seen in aviation themed show/movie. The stuff in the cockpit is great but the aerial scenes where you see aircraft actually flying are...not good. Hopefully that eventually improves once the real flying P-51s show up later... The whole Africa sequence in episode 3 and the tower flyby in Episode 4....YIKES...this is what over 200 million dollars in Hollywood gets you these days??? I wonder how much was spent on Hulu's Catch-22 because that looks a lot better. Definitely agree on Crosby, he's the heart of the show currently. The overall writing thus far has been pretty weak though.
I have read Miller's book twice. I have read Ambrose's Trilogy (D-Day, Citizen Soldier, Band of Brothers) a number of times. I have done work with WWII combat vets, mostly combat air crews, for two decades. When I heard Spielberg and Hanks were going to make a movie from "Masters of the Air" I thought "How are they POSSIBLY going to be able to do THAT?!?!?!" And now I know the answer: the only way to make a movie from Miller's book is just the way they've done it. I have a friend who was a navigator on a B-17 with the 100th, 32 combat missions. He was flown to Hollywood to see the premier. I will leave it at that.
I am pleased you enjoyed it, my review was just my take on it based upon my reading and interviews with veterans as well. We have a long chat with Dick Bushong, who flew 28 missions with the 390th on the channel. I'm not sure if his comments on the 100th stayed in the cut!
Us aviation and WWII history geeks are a small minority of the population. When watching reaction videos here on RU-vid from the totally uninitiated, I'd say the series so far is a resounding success. Looking forward to this summer to tour a bit with the CAF's B-17 and see what effects the series will have on the public and their desire to see in real life what they viewed on their TV.
Just watched this again after viewing episode one and I agree very much with most of this. A really good insight here that's well balanced and measured. Would expect nothing less (of course) from you.
I hear your point regarding it being “good tv”, there hasn’t been a ww2 aviation themed tv show since the 1960’s with the tv adaptation of Twelve O’Clock High. Certainly this production is far more historically accurate from the standpoint of uniforms, and equipment, the markings on the CGI airplanes. The airfield set. It’s good tv, educates the masses about the bombing campaign over Europe. To your point about whether it would give another producer justification to make another aviation themed tv series? Possibly. I think the Tuskegee airman have been beat to death. Between the 1990’s HBO series, the 2012 movie, and other small snippets about them. Might be time to focus on other fighter groups. Whether that’s the 7th AF P-51’s flying off of Iwo Jima escorting B29’s to Japan. Some great stories there…take a listen to P51 pilot Jerry Yellin’s stories about that. Or maybe a more accurate take on the Black sheep squadron. Instead of that 1970’s version. There are so many other stories to tell. So many other experiences that we shouldn’t get caught up in that one theater, one group, one demographics story!
CG are only getting good enough now to pull it off. The show would be a billion dollars to group up 20 real B-17s up flying through flak . Real is not better. Look at the movie "Dunkirk" with empty tidy beaches , skies and ocean because they refused to use CG soldiers, planes and ships. The movie "Troy" had more soldiers on the beach using CG and it looked great .
A very measured take, with lots of interesting thoughts Matt! I've seen the first 2 episodes and loved them. That said, some of the CGI was indeed lacking. The landing scene in Greenland threw me off. B-17s are big, and seeing one getting buffeted to that extent made it look a little like a styrofoam RC plane. Agreed on the British Pilots pub scene, that certainly did lack a little nuance. I thought the bomb run scene in the second episode was incredible. It was nearly as good as the opening B-24 Bomb Run scene in 'Unbroken', which is to date one of my favourite (love the way Domhnall Gleeson's Character says 'We are here' ) But yeah, overall I loved it, but then again, I was always going to!
First 2 episodes were severely lacking. That being said, as a casual viewer, I found episode 3 to be stellar. The prolonged battle sequence had perfect tension and I loved every moment of it!
That is where the series excels in the episdoes with a long raid. Ep.3 is very good overall, some of teh dialogue again is very wonkey. The comment about this being the greatest air armada ever is pretty tone deaf considering what the RAF were putting up most nights at the same time. The Schweinfurt-Regensburg Raid as shown in this episode had 370-odd aircraft. On the Hamburg raid three weeks earlier which resulted in the firestorm, Bomber Command put up over 750 aircraft.
@@damcasterspod I am surprised you are not breaking the series down episode by episode. There are a lot of people, including myself, who would love to hear more about the historical accuracies versus inaccuracies from someone well versed in the topic of aviation history.
@@nealmccoy5727@nealmccoy5727 That was the plan, but the reaction to my review, directly to me, is such that I'm just going to let people enjoy it at their leisure. We will be looking at some of the themes raised in the podcast over the coming weeks, though.
just finished seeing it, the story is great, the acting is good and compelling, the CGI is very very bad, they could have just used DCS videos and it would have been better, just look the series for the drama, and when the air combat starts close your eyes and pretend it is something better
For All Mankind, Slow Horses and Silo are worth the price of admission below. Greyhound was good and I loved Ted Lasso, but I work in Richmond so I'm forcing my way past Ted Lasso tourists far too much for my liking! ;)
Just finished watching the first 2 episodes. They were working on post processing a couple weeks before release so the CGI may have improved since you viewed it. As an American, I feel the same way regarding episode 2. It didn't seem like a natural conversation to be had. The Brits seemed like characatures, all posh and snooty. Just waiting for the classic cockney character to pop up. That beings said, I still enjoyed it. As far as the Tuskeegee airmen, Red Tails isn't that old, and despite it being pretty shit, I wouldn't mind some other fighter squadron getting the lime light.
It isn't terrible, that is for sure, I'd just hoped for something a little different. I hear you on the Tuskegee Airmen, I'd just like a decent thing done then move onto the 357th or a new Black Sheep show (for which there is a book about the making of the series due soon-ish).
@@damcasterspod I heard they didn't use any real aircraft. I get the airworthiness of B-17s being too high a risk but I feel like P-51's are quite common that they could have been used for aerial scenes. Still, looking forward to the next episodes. In terms of Black Sheep show, you talking about the show Black Sheep Squadron? I used to watch that as a kid and loved it. Wore my F4u t-shirt in kindergarden 😆
I was! I have a soft spot for that show and so many of the Corsair in it are still flying today. Annoyingly, I can't find the name of the author who is writing the new book. I'll keep looking.
@@damcasterspod yeah that was a good show haha. I was speaking with a guy who did VFX work on MotA and he said we'll be seeing B-17 G's in the show. The UK VFX team did LiDAR scans of a bunch of museun displays to get the details down. They scanned Memphis Belle and Snoo Snoo Baby.
I don't doubt the effort of the VFX teams. A mate is up for an Oscar for The Creator, so I have the utmost respect for the work of the guys that bring the impossible to life. I just was 100% enamoured here.
I can't understand why they could not film a real B17 taking off and landing. Spend some of the budget and hire a real aircraft..film it from multiple angles to get reusability option. So much shoddy CGI and what on earth is with the B17 colliding with a cliff before landing without even a bent prop. Plenty of other issues (so far 3 episodes in) I agree with you some of the acting is good and the uniforms etc but too many stereotypes and tropes
Because they rather (them being the big corporate guys who run things all over the place) spend the money on stupid crap that they know will make millions and billions of dollars off sheeple films and shows.
The only way for the aircraft to look right is to use real aircraft and that can’t happen, even Band of Brothers had its cgi problems, the jump scene in Holland, any former para like me spots immediately the cgi parachutes, it looks awful and would have been better to do the same as A bridge too far and have a real drop, at least company sized. Big fan of BSG and For All Mankind, just brilliant.
Agree - Go back and watch the belly-landing scene from the 1949 classic 12 O'clock High. Veteran Stunt pilot Paul Manz executes this. and it can't be beat with CGI ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-vHZqnKiNs0w.html (Mantz latter died filming Flight of the Pheonix in 1960)
They could've also used large scale RC models for some of the shots... a lot of the big scenes in "Memphis Belle" were large scale models and most people still can't spot the difference. The crash landing scene and the mass takeoff sequence in "Memphis Belle" both used a ton of RC models along with the 5 real B-17s. Pretty interesting video here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iSzBhLS7izM.html It was mistake for this show to lean SO heavily on CGI, it not only looks pretty bad but takes away from the weight of several scenes....
I agree 100% on your assessment of the acting. The violence in the planes, in my opinion, was significantly toned down from descriptions I’ve read and people I’ve met when I was a kid. Just read the poem of the ball turret gunner. Why would it take balls for a series on the Tuskegee Airmen? And as far as American Exceptionalism. ..Deal with it.
The Tuskegee show would require as hefty a budget as this and because of that, few studios or channels would tackle it due to the nature of the story. It is the same reason why Lucas self-funded Red Tails.
😂 I do think you should watch the finished, 4k show if you want to review the effects. OTOH, being given VIP access to an unfinished, work-in- progress (at low res it seems) and then knocking its special effects seems a bit… hitting below the belt, no? Especially to the *thousands* of people who spent the better part of three years making those shots (almost 4 thousand different shots). oh, and there are no “real” B-17s in the show. At all. Cheers.
Hi John, thanks for your comment. I raised it as it was noticable and was a point of discussion, but one I think I caveated pretty hard. I also will be firing it up on the proper telly to check out the full fat version now that it is live. Our conversation at Jim Holland's book launch at the National Army Museum raised my hopes very high, so I blame you! ;) I hope my feelings in this review will stioll mean my request through the lovely Apple PR Team to chat to you about the series will be looked upon favourably. There is a lot to chat about.
You keep comparing it to “Memphis Belle” which is not fair. It’s cinematically and historically very very bad. Then you apply a really high standard to this series while acknowledging the flaws that 99% won’t even notice. We can have really dry technically perfect films that appeal to plane or history nerds or films that appeal to a wider audience that get made. You whine about the portrayal of British people but also acknowledge the perspective is mostly from the American side. The American perspective is often wrong. It’s clouded with American prejudices and misunderstandings since it’s from an American point of view. (Also Malcolm Gladwell is Canadian, NOT American) Maybe the series you want is “American flyers misunderstand and Insult Brits while dropping Bomb but Offer apologies”
Thank you for you feedback, we shall agree to disagree. Also, I never make the statement that my countryman Malcolm Gladwill is American, I reference his terrible work in regards to the American bombing campaign.
Having just finished episode 3 its a no for me. Series has got progressively worse for me.. I'm not sure I can finish it. The stereotypes the over the top CGI. No emotion in this series. unfortunately it's what Spielberg's projects have evolved into. All spectacle and no substance. I felt more emotion watching one aircraft go down in Memphis Belle (mother and country) than a hundred cgi explosions and head on attacks
I watched both episode last night and liked it. BUT Did not like the non military haircuts. Even the real Evils had to get a military haircut. And the part of the (Alone) Crippled B-17 diving to put out a engine fire then being attacked by German fighters that do only one attack pass and let the crippled B-17 go peacefully back to England alone. Band Of Brother would have ww2 experts on set to correct fictional stuff like that .
And did it with huge ignorance about who actually made up Bomber Command especially by that stage. All the meticulous research for the USAAF and stock Hollywood caricatures when the much more experienced by then RAF are depicted.
The problem is that the British actors haven't carried a thing thus far. Boyle has been the only stand out, and I believe he is Irish and not British? Callum Turner has been absolutely dreadful thus far, despite being a superb actor. If you want to argue for some of the British actors carrying BoB, you may have an argument. Their accents were spot on, and their characters were intriguing and dynamic. However, even then, BoB had several great characters who were American as well.
What a joke of a review here. I have seen the screening and the show myself. It was fantastic. You can't compare anything to band of brother's because nothing tops that series but this series did Donald Millers book justice and the story of these men was something to see from the air in what they faced. It was well done and achieved that purpose easily. This reviewer has little credibility to me after seeing this video, respectfully. We all have opinions, of course, but i disagree with much of what he says here. Almost like, we didn't watch the same show.
This show was objectively awful. You ought to consult a doctor to see if you have brain damage. That can be only explanation for liking this obliteration of a series.
@@nealmccoy5727 if i need to consult a doctor you need to consult a psychological evaluation and you have lost all credibility to post in an open forum with such a delusional point of view but you are entitled to it! If you told me the sky was blue, I wouldn't believe you so that illustrates your credibility. You seem as sharp as a bowling ball buddy. Get back to watching Rupaul drag shows as you probably would nominate that for an Oscar with such a goofy point of view.
@@nealmccoy5727 Hmmm, “brain damage”? Ha. You’re funny. Let me get this straight - so, anyone who disagrees with you has a damaged brain? Got it. I should add, as a member of a Gold Star family whose loved one was lost while was flying with the Eight Air-force, this series has been epic and chilling for us.
