Agree with Bart on the turn. Should just be a fold if the guy is loose. Most loose players call lots of hands but only stick it in when they have the nuts and they play combo draws as calls. I disagree with Bart here when he says maybe villain only continues with QJ with a club on the flop. Most poker players play for fun & there’s no chance they’re folding a gutshot to a small bet on flop, regardless if they have a club or not. Atleast here in Australia. Players here are ridiculously loose and passive. Anyway my 2 cents. Good video 😊😊
@@kcc-karenschroniccorner9432 Didn't play much live, but when I played here in Germany, I've seen players just calling with monster combo draws ALL the time. I was sitting there and was thinking "How the hell can you not raise the flop, at least some of the time?". Maybe it is the (smallish) straight flush jackpot they have at the place where I played, but I doubt it. People just love to play lottery and they don't understand the concept of EV.
So from the callers perspective A10 is the preflop nuts against these guys, yet JQ is a total shock from the opponent. Amazing how the opposition is supposed to be better players literally as this hand progressed.
It’s funny to me how impatient Bart sounds when somebody starts with thanking him for his channel and content. He’s like “yeah yeah let’s get to the hand.” lol
I think he meant before the flop because I think he murmured something like “after limp calling” but people who limp don’t fold QJo much less suited very often so still…..
@@justinhart7172 I agree. Especially if you are gonna pay off when he gets there! That’s not the point of the comment though. The point I made was that he was talking about PF instead of flop play, when he made the comment. And, who cares lol.
@@MelFinehout even pf...how can that be surprise when someone limp-call pfr in small stakes?? That (not being able to see that) spells a strong incompetence.
I was one of the people in the live chat who commented that there could be a lot of pair+FD overplays. After thinking about the hand a bit more I definitely agree with Bart that AK-high boards are an exception. I'm used to routinely seeing people overplay pair+FD in a variety of spots but for the reasons Bart mentioned they likely won't do it here. When we start firing large on this board if they are a fish they start to put us almost exclusively on hands like AK+. They will rarely bluff into that range because they know they are putting in money behind and also that they have virtually no fold equity (because they themselves would never bet fold the turn with AK in hero's position). So when we consider the fact that villain has all the QJo combos here and very few bluffs, we need to fold the turn
I’m shocked there was zero discussion of +1’s limp call range. QJo is one of the most common limp call hands from early position. This is just a snap fold for me on the turn after the check/raise. Shoving is a massive overplay without knowing anything about the opponent.
Hero _did_ know something about the villain: loose and splashy. Given that, I see why he could have thought about denying equity to combo draws, but the problem is that there are more combos of QJo than there are combo draws... And a loose villain can have limp-called all of those QJo. Like he in fact did.
the ppl who limp call pre are not good and usually pretty tight so QJ I dunno if Id agree is one of the most common limp/call hands. They also called a cbet which I dont see many tight/bad players doing either in hopes of hitting a 3 outer since theres a flush draw out there and theyre pretty nut scared(as a player type)
@@Jermo484 Not all limpers are the same. The guy paid for the seat. He's probably not very patient and wants to play alot of hands. To reduce variance he limp/calls the junk.
@@AT-bw4cm okay, but the guy I replied to said it's "one of the most common limp call hands" which I strongly disagree with. I didn't say every limper is the same.
I really enjoyed Bart's analysis on this one. He's exactly right about alarm bells going off on this check-raise when hero can easily have AK, AT, A5 here & in fact he does. A villain needs to be very laggy to check-raise without beating AK. This is QJ or 55 most times. This is a pretty bad beat, but it still does make me wonder how long these tiny flop bets will be popular. Since villain had no clubs, he probably folds to a real bet on the flop.
People bet 1/3 pot because they’ve learned a computer program sometimes does; however a solver would likely size up and that’s heads up, not multi-way. Furthermore, the solver also assumes the opponent plays perfect and that you will play perfect on subsequent streets. It’s kind of ridiculous.
@@KenDavis-uo8kq I don't trust computers in a situation where the human element is so strong, like in poker. Your opponents are humans that do not think or act like computers at all. A computer would probably fold QJ no club even to hero's small sizing, as an example.
Great point. On the flop, it’s multi-way and draw heavy. 1/3 is fine heads up, as you are way ahead of draws. With more players you are tempting fate. You face the QJo and the K8c of the worlds simultaneously, leaving you with 50 prevent or so to win.
It can be painful at times but if you live with the very simple motto of " when the fish bets you fold" you'll save a lot of money in the long term. Yes it's going to suck to fold some of your equity, but these games are usually easy enough that you'll make that back in no time anyway. The worst is when a fish accidentally turns their hand into a bluff thinking that they've got you, but it is what it is
I've been experiencing a lot of fish over valuing their hands. Players are value betting with top pair/bad kicker and call down thinking they have the nuts. Important to understand the player putting the bet in and what range they are actually playing in certain ways.
The King on turn is the worst Broadway card as so many people will limp JQ early position. KQ is raised more often than JQ. I would be extremely concerned about JQ when the king hits. Might even check back the turn because of that. Then we have the villain check raise the turn. So strong and from his perspective there are two flush draws plus action killers so no wonder he raised.
I like jamming the turn if the villain is raising a flush draw. I would be happy to raise the turn and get a hand like 9-8 of clubs to fold. I just don't think that a flush draw (especially one that has a pair) is raising the turn. But if he was bluffing with a flush draw, I would be quite happy to just take the pot down and not have to worry about the river. The pot is big enough that I would be happy to win the pot, rather than having to play the river. It's not a disaster to get the villain to fold a bluff that has significant equity.
I don’t think villain ever has anything that we’re beating here. We’re beating Q10hh, K10 (though he should only be calling with clubs or hearts which is not possible on the turn), and Axhh. He limped preflop, meaning he’s not gonna have any good suited aces (also means he’s not a very strong player). So assuming he’s even playing Axhh for a checkraise (which I discount as he’s likely only calling with those hands) I put him on generously 5 hands that we beat. Meanwhile he can have all 12 combos of QJo (likely not limping with suited) and like 1 combo of 55 that plays this way. A jam is never the correct play. You could make a case for playing fifth street chicken. Since he would likely check all his hands we beat on the river and bet all the ones we don’t. For me this is a fold on the turn.
Top 2, especially broadway w/out an Ace, I think are the hands that cost me the most money…you don’t block straights, there’s all kinds of made + draws, flush draws get there and you have a strong hand in absolute terms
Bart…..your new animated thumbnails look a bit goofy….i think they detract from the quality and level of your channel. I’m a huge fan…..watch every video…twice! Just sharing. Thx
People overvalue crap like crazy live and don't think when they raise. Any Axhh, A5, KT suited, K5 suited are all here and even some 2/5 players will do nonsense like this with like AQ and AJ.
This hand was played OK really.. you got 4-outered on the turn, it's just unlucky, the hand plays itself for the most part, except indeed a bigger bet on the flop could've been nice to reduce his direct/implied odds aswell.
I would fast play the $750 call and see what/how villan plays the river. History would have a big factor in how I would decide what to do on the river as well. If I had a set I would be all in and get coolered. 2 pair on this board, ummmmm.
Played a similar hand last night at Borgata where I had 3h3d and called a raise to $18. Flop was Jh9s3c and i called a CB of 40 to a turn of 7s. Pot then was 140 and villain bet 110, I raised to 320 and he shoved for my last 600. Yes he had Tc8c WTF, but I did pick up a Jd on the river to boat up. Usually you make $$$ when you raise garbage and actually hit, not this time
It's never AK. . . never. So what is the check raise at that exact size? I honestly think that someone looks to go 800-1k with a combo draw so that they can increase pressure and price themselves in for a call if you jam. Ok, 750 is a price that lets you get away, but 1. do you really want to if you have a A or K and a flush draw, or even a gutter and 2. why not just call and take your card and hope to hit?
Based on the turn logic discussed, it would appear to be a terrible play to jam the turn. You effectively get a freeroll river decision by just flatting the turn. The villain likely shoves a blank on the river which you planned on calling regardless. If it's not a blank and the villain shoves, you get the opportunity to asses the situation again and make your decision. The fact that the villain could have any QJ also means the turn is a must call, not a jam. A non blank river will give you another chance to get away from the hand. In this exact hand, if the river had of been blank it's just unfortunate and not much you could do.
If he has all QJ , he also has all suited and offsuit QT and JT KQ KJ. Now would he bluff any of these pair +draw hands? If he is loose, who knows? Based on the description of the villain, maybe the continue with AT from hero isn't bad.
Wouldn't a check raise turn-give up river require the caller to be calling on the turn with something worse than the bluff? If the idea is that you're giving up to take your showdown?
Button straddle effects games with real professionals has nothing to do with low stakes games and people who play crazy already anyways in which case it probably adds to the game bigger pots
Opp has 16 compinations of QJ, 3 combos of 55, 2 combos KT. Thats his value. He also has KJ and KQ of clubs and QT of hearts. Thats his bluffs. So he is bluffing only 3 out of 21 combos here. Okay lets make it 6. 6 out of 21 are his bluffs. Including 2 combos of overplayed KT you have to be right at least 50% of the time to jam but you are not even close to that. Its an yeasy fold if you just count combos. Mistake is on the flop - you should use 75% size to fold out godshots without clubs.
Agreed about easy fold on turn. However, flop bet does not need to be 75% to deny pot odds to a gutshot. $40 bet is good enough to make V unprofitable to call (this include implied odds). . On contrary, it should be easy fold for V on flop. However, they (tonnes of calling stations!!) call despite of 8% of equity, counting on a huge implied odds when they hit. And it works. Proof: this example, and more others.
@@pot_kivach160 bart said to go $150 which I found too big. And $70 is “decent” and I suppose “decent” will get you stacked in life. So go ahead and be decent
I had this exact scenario happen to me about 1 month ago but it was at a 1/3 game instead. Cutoff vs early position. I had AT turn brought in the straight. I bet 1/2 pot dude raised me 4x. I folded in about 10 sec face up and he got mad at me. He didn't show his hand but I knew he had it
I think a LOT of the combodraws that hero is beating on the turn should have raised preflop. Bart is talking about AQ hearts, AJ hearts, KQ clubs, KJ clubs… come on! 80% of those raise preflop in my opinion. Also, villain must think about what hero can have. Hero have all sets, a bunch of two pairs, and a decent amount of straights played this way. I think it is a crying fold on turn.
