For those that don't know. Queen Street racing is the name of the company that build engines and cars for drag racing purposes. This is not a road setup up. This is a drag spec engine.
Yes, I was agreeing with you on the second part. But a thermodynamic cycle in a engine like this is the otto cycle: intake, compression, combustion, exhaust. 1 compete revolution of the rotor actually gets you 3 compete thermodynamic (otto) cycles per rotor which translates into 1,080 degrees of "crank" (eccentric shaft) rotation as per the 3:1 ratio of the e-shaft to rotor(s). You would need 6 crank revolutions of a 4 stroke piston engine to achieve the same thing.
Very impressive, my only concern is the leak at the exhaust manifold after it heats up; those flames leaking out into an engine bay might be a problem. Nonetheless, these guys have it goin' on!
As much I love the rotary engines and doing alot of research on them, I would never dreamed of them actually hitting over 1000hp! I'm totally impressed with the build.
Usually when you rebuild rotaties you use a lubricant on the inside so that the motor stays lubed without the Oil from the oil pump right off the bat. So thats probably just some form of Vaseline or Oil being burnt off. Just SOP.
@turbomen08 That's crazy. But I suppose though it makes sense as I've seen the 2JZ 3.0L do 1300-rwhp and the stroked 3.4L do 1600-hp. STILL though, that's impressive for a 4-Rotary.
***** but wouldn't it be left uneven after it became malleable allowing for any gas to go through afterwards? i think it is a poorly designed manifold that just cannot keep the pressure between the engine and itself at high turbo boost
@Topfueltrooper Thank you. A lot of people don't realize that it's not that hard to shove 40-50 psi into a block with meth or 120+ octane and get gigantic numbers. Try building a motor that'll last a few laps at full throttle
thanks for the good info, I'm more in tune with what VG's RB's SR's 2J's etc. can do than I am with V8's and drag apps. but I've still got a good idea on what it takes to make those kinds of numbers with any engine. Anyways what's the engine setup like on your Z? 375 @ 13psi is pretty sweet. I'm gessing you have twin GT25's or something similar?
As I have already said one thermodynamic cycle of a 4 stroke 4 cyl engine gives 4 otto cycles per two revs. In one thermodynamic cycle of a twin rotary engine you get six otto cycles for one 360 deg rev. The e-shaft is irrelevant to engine capacity. If the e-shaft was geared 4:1 would you want to reduce the capacity even further?
@Warblade118 actually its true that the rotors have combustion on each face making it 3/4 of the pistons 1/4 which makes it rev up better and faster and also makes it more friendly to boost and high power
@spencerskate0 the engines power is now directly affecting the powersteering or the alternator. they are derivates that are power by a belt, so they only count the actual revolutions. The power you saw is at the flywheel which in turn will diminish as it goes to the wheels. hope that explains it a bit
Man holy crap!! The headers turn bright orange!!!! I wonder how many gaskets they go through. Or what kind they even use in this case. Nickel? Copper? Aluminum? Ceramic?
@Warblade118 The e-shaft spins 3 times for every one rotor rotation. BUT every 1/3 rotation of the rotar creates a combustion stroke. So in effect the e-shaft spins three times but by the time the rotor spins around once, it will complete almost 3 combustion processes. With that said I'm not sure, but it may be the 3k/9k like you said.
@misplacedmouse Its auto-ignition. When something gets so hot, it no longer needs an ignition source and spontaneously ignites. Usually it is associated with cooking oil fires, but the sealants and other chemicals surrounding the manifold also can auto-ignite at some temperature. it obviously reached it. haha.
@samwiserich That 1600BHP wasn't meant for long runs. The Le Mans 787B actually lowered the power so that it would be endurable, though it had high fuel consumption. How to defeat turbo lag; keep a high RPM launch.
@mageac I was talking about Rotaries, but the same goes for high rpm piston based engines too. If it is designed for high rpm hp it is going to have lower torque. All those parts are designed to spin fast. Look at F-1 cars gobs of HP, but low on the TQ. It all goes back to physics, the faster something's centripetal(I believe thats right because the power is being pushed towards the axis) force, the lower the tq. Diesel has slow bang, big tq. I could be wrong I'm not an expert.
@Warblade118 Excellent comment. I agree the comparison is misguided. The fact that rotors make so much power for their capacity is nullified by the fact that they have a completely different stroke system and burn far more fuel (and oil) to achieve it.
you know 2 strokes, intake under exhaust sealed actively by piston movement, so when compression sub-stroke take place and piston is trying to move up, part of fresh mixture will escape through exhaust port because it takes time for piston to move up, so 2 strokes looses to 4 stroke on fuel economy, so does rotary because they fire too 'regularly' and doesn't have that high compression ratio, so fuel don't get burnt effectively.
Idk but thats an interesting question. Lets do the math again: every cycle of the rotor is 3 bangs, 3 cycles makes one output revolution. So ratio between bang/rev is 3/1(well almost 3). 4 strokes: 1 cycle of piston is exhaust, one is intake, and 1 piston cycle= 1 rev=> 1/2 bang/rev. That makes 2 stroke 1/1. So there you go, for the same volume, rotary will make the most power, and 4 stroke will make the least power.
@nitrousxxxcam Rotory engines are notorious for having less components than a piston engine. They basically have a rotating thing in a cylinder. They're designed for "stress", and they love higher revs.
@zeppelin67637 The rotors are 180 off from each other and are balanced, think of a gyroscope. They orbit in a way that there is VERY minimal vibrations, even if they are off by a few grams.
I replied to this comment only. Besides, it wasen't an attack or anything bro. The lag issue is not usually a problem on the track with proper equipment, tuning and driving skills. As for the boost, they will usually go for as much as the engine can take since the purpose of this car is purely for drag racing. If it blows, they will just replace it. Anyways, no harm dude. Cheers to you too!
in engine side.to reduce that, they come with a solution where they put a type of rotating weight to counter a mass of a recip motion or a simply said "counter-balancer".this also will add weight to an engine.but the worst side of a rotary engine were they need to lubricate their housing just like 2 stroke by burning them them together with an air/fuel.(TO MAKE IT SIMPLY,FOUR STROKE WERE SUCCESSFULLY MARKETED CAUSE THEY WERE SIMPLY SUPERIOR IN TERM OF FUEL AND LUBRICATION! )
@Warblade118 Thanks for the info , ok so your comparing it to a V8 .. hmm .. I get your point perfectly .... Thanks again ... Are you a Mechanic ??? :) ... I have a question ... I live in Dubai , UAE . and you seem to know alot about these engines .. How long would a RX8 last out here in the Heat .... I want to get one with an Automatic ....
@undeadkillers In an aircraft engine, the supercharger counteracts the power loss that results from the decrease of atmospheric pressure with increase of altitude. Theres a difference between aeronautics and automotives.
@IgoByaGo the reason a higher rpm engine makes less torque is the tuning of the cams/ports... an engine with an aggressive cam, with a big overlap, high lift, and aggressive timing will make loads of power at high rpm when the air is at high velocity. but with the overlap,and valve timing advance it will struggle just to run at low rpm...
Im 15 and new to cars, please help me understand the rotory, wats the advant/disvant to a normal enginr and why havent other brands adopted it yet if they can produce such power with such small displacement.
Maravilla de maquinas parecen monstruos artificiales vivientes en verdad hermosura de maquina y una pregunta ese motor de que es ? de Coche camioneta Camion Trailer o de que es?
@Warblade118 I think the rpm is based on the shafts speed then. Rotor based engines have less internal moving mass as you would probably know. The average piston engines redline ranges from 6k-8k. Rx8 stock has 9k redline, rotor engines in race spec can achieve 13k rpm maybe more.
@Warblade118 yes the e shaft turns 3 times as fast or so as the rotors but like you said not the rotors fire on every side as they turn so 3 combustions for every stroke
@LS7TT Is you're Z in the mid 9s? Because I only see a dyno of barely 400hp, I don't know how good that is to represent your shop by but too each their own.
What I was saying is that rotary engines have a reputation for producing as much torque as horsepower, or nearly. And that's even naturally aspirated. For example, my SA22 12a was pushing a very moderate 130 horses, but it was also yielding 117 ft.lb. of torque along with it. That was stock from an old motor. Anything you do to yield higher horse in a rotary will more than likely yield as much gain in torque.
I almost busted my mouse, as that baby built boost I noticed I was left clickin the snot out of it LOL. I wonder how injecting some fuel in the exhaust just ahead of the turbo would make it act. I was thinking about gettin on the boost sooner but I don't suppose it's a problem with your style of racing. Those things are just awesome, they intrest me in terms of motorcycle usage or outboards, they are so nice and compact, Real good show fellows, it's a hell of a motor.
hey guys i'm not a motor freak or something like that but i heard that the rotary engind at's in C-inch is WAY better than a standard engine and the rotary engine can give a way lot more RPM's than a normal engine AWESOME VIDEO
Except there is a 3 to 1 ratio between the e-shaft (like a crankshaft) and the rotors, meaning that one rev of the e-shaft gives you one third of a revolution of the rotor. So for every full revolution of the e-shaft you get 1 combustion event per rotor. (and 1 intake and 1 exhaust) Since this engine has 4 rotors that means is has 4 combustion per revolution of the e-shaft. This is comparable to a 5.2L V8 that also has 4 combustion per rev of the crankshaft.
Now that is cool! Hearing the turbine spin up and watching manifold go cherry red. I can just imagine what this engine would do coupled to a good gearbox.
well if you ask about this 4 rotors, numbers are too big to speculate. But a 13B in a RX8 would exceed the usage on a 308ci, on daily driving alone(medium modern muscle sport car) small block - Holden Commodore for example.
@wapreab true, but ud have to keep it low unless u wanna spin the tires completly so for a launch its gotta be a shit ton of clutch work. so ya u can have a lot of high rev power but, your gonna go through a clutch like crazy
this sound like music i see it over and over impressive how much RPMs are this engine work at to get the 1664 hp? it sound like 14 or 15 thousand to me
it appears so, I reach this conclusion on my own understanding, which I should have research to confirm it, but nah, I think if compression ratio is high, then the mixture density at ignition point will allow maximum power because of how close fuel and air molecules are and they will expand at a very rapid speed, and burn more completely, but in the expense of the need of a very strong spark to ignite them, which doesn't seem to be an issue these days.
@NinjaBoyFuto exhaust pipes commonly reach 1600 degrees Fahrenheit in a normal vehicle going do the road. now lets do 8,000 rpm for a minute and now the temp is up to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit. If i need to explain more, just ask.
Thats what I said, except one complete revolution of the rotor is 3.9L, the full displacement of one thermodynamic cycle. Which is the normal measure of any engines true capacity.
Actually a 13b displaces 1.3l per revolution or 2.6l in 2 revs (720 degrees). This is directly comparable to a 2.6l 4 cylinder, 4 stroke engine that also displaces 1.3l per revolution or 2.6l in 2 revolutions (720 degrees)
a 4 rotor engine is capable of incredibly smooth delivery of power as smooth as or even smoother than a v12 piston engine..and is equivalent in terms of firing pulses and power generation
you both are righty.. cam shafts have a centrifical force.. its newtoms law. an obect in motion remain at motion till a contradicting force acts upon it (friction, heat, gravity wat ever..0 but the bore and stroke also have a bid deal.. the longer the piston has to travel.. to more torque and power.. but its slower.. small stroke or no pistons.. well high rpm and alot of hp.. and on rotarys.. well there is no limit to rpm.. just as strong you make tha metals and how much you feed it..
