I really like this format of video where you talk about a gun and then follow it up with a 2-gun action match part where you show it in action. Makes for a very well-rounded format :) .
I like it a lot too, but unfortunately, that's not possible for every firearm he covers. Sometimes the ammo isn't in production anymore, sometimes the rifle itself has become weakened over the years, etc.
I only wish we had had something like this back in the day. As a Cold War turbine engine mechanic, we had to carry our M16A1s even when working on a helicopter in a snowstorm.
I have a concept called a lap gun. That is a gun in a vehicle on the lap just in case someone needs a gun larger than a pistol to fight with from inside a vehicle. Let's say there is a group of people trying to tear someone out of their vehicle while it is stopped or disabled.
Awesome rifle. I’m really glad the MDR didn’t actually become a “forgotten weapon”. Good to see they’re leaning into the bullpup platform and showing people how efficient and ergonomic this system can be if you take the time to understand it and train on it. Having that much stopping power, range, and accuracy in something that small like the micron could be game changing for CQC for the high speed types. Idk I’m just an armchair general in the end of the day.
Yes, bullpups are amazing when done right. The people who shit on bullpups are usally speaking from past bullpups that were really flawed, but like other guns, trial and error means they have gotten much better now than what they were before.
@@livingcorpse5664 i would say it depends on the person and what kind of knowledge they have from game and books and such, also the type of weapon as well, I'm an Australian civilian that has been shooting a lot in Europe and has been lucky enough to try the new service rifle the bullpup F88, i'm fairly tall and long limbed but i prefer the bullpup in general because i enjoy how it feels to "pull" the platform in towards my body, if that makes sense, where for an m4 style i'm relatively stretched out and prefer that less.
@@livingcorpse5664 Considering that there some data about bullpup trained servicemen being tested on on m16 (IIRC, a while since I read it) configuration, and the results of the operation lag were surprisingly closely comparable to the situation vice versa, I'd go out on a limb and throw a guess that the most meaningful part is in what you were trained on. And to me it's at least a lot easier to adapt, than practice something completely new.
Been increasingly impressed with DesertTech's development and improvement with the MDR bullpups, this Micron definitely fits in the ranks for a very apt EP/ PSD platform or Truck gun.
this is the perfect example of what bullpups are supposed to accomplish. also its weight is equivalent to the H&K (Umarex built) MP5 22lr mockup so its really not that heavy in the grand scheme.
Yeah exactly. Regular bullpups always seemed too big compared to regular rifles and it doesn't seem worth changing the entire operation for minimal benefit.
It's still heavy for a stubby little thing that is for vehicle crew once they get out of the beast. Remember that the M1 Carbine, really the first PDW by concept, is 5lbs.
And that tiny thing at 7.5 #s is only 2 #s lighter than a loaded M1 Garand! That is a freaking Brick! Ian was talking about putting a suppressor on it, at that point you would have a quiet, tiny brick that DOES weigh as much as an M1 Garand! That thing is cool but they really need to look at some weight saving ideas... Great Video, though. Ya'll Take Care and be safe, John
@@JohnDoe-pv2iu keep in mind that it's designed to be in .308 which makes it quite light(for that caliber).Its waaay overbuilt for 5.56.They could make a dedicated 5.56,non caliber swap version much lighter.
11.5in is also the perfect minimum barrel length for 5.56. Several ballistic studies I’ve seen have concluded that 11.5in is the minimum length with 5.56 before it becomes ineffective (tumbling, major velocity loss, too much unburnt powder, etc)
You're right. It's been known for years in T/C Contender circles. When choosing ammunition for any SBR, try to find Contender load data; it's what the U.S. Marines ended up doing to come up with their Mk. 319 ammo, for instance.
I've got a Contender with a Fox Ridge .223 barrel that is 10" long. It is my most accurate firearm, regardless of caliber or configuration. I haven't chronographed it yet, but it is extremely accurate, even with cheapo steel ammo. I do load special ammo for it, but it almost doesn't seem to matter. Everything goes into a single hole at 100 yards.
Also, Ian, you should include more competition footage with the forgotten weapons you've covered. I mean, I know historical and one of a kind firearms obviously shouldn't go through a competition. But you've covered a lot of firearms you could run through a match, and I would be interested to see how they run through competition, especially in your hands and the others you have as guest appearances (or regulars, for some of them). No matter what, though, your Channel was the first I subscribed to on RU-vid, and yours is one of my absolute favorites to watch, especially on this particular topic. Whenever Forgotten Weapons posts a video, I watch all of them, with very few exceptions. Honestly, as cool and fascinating and interesting as the mechanics of the different systems are, I think my two favorite parts about your content is the engineering progression of the many designs and the huge amounts of history, prominence, and just general story of how each one came to be. Thank you for producing an almost perfect RU-vid Channel that explores the parts of the firearms culture and history and mechanics that is the entire reason I continued to be interested in firearms long after I fired my first round at the range. 😁
Glad to see Desert Tech is doing well despite doing something new and different. And holy moly when you have that thing as your main gun and an Alien as your backup gun you really become a Space Marine :P
@@jjones6606 Well that escalated quickly. Can i enjoy a gun company doing something right without having to know which reason they're being cancelled for?
The MDR is still my favorite bullpup model when it comes to design and efficiency. AUGs and Famas' or Tavors are cool and all(mostly because of how iconic they are) but god damn they made the MDR so efficient in every aspect. I don't really like bullpups that much either but that one just does it for me.
@@fnzer0 I'm owner of a gen1 mdr (post warranty) in 308 and it has issues. The forward eject is very prone to jamming and beats the hell out of brass even if it works. For reloaders that's terrible. According to some, the receiver is prone to cracking around the rear pin.
It is but too many politicians are keeping the AR platform alive for another 50 years by literally adding a piston.. ~ a rural Texan who is a salty AK guy.
@@someguy5444 well our weapons and vehicles are all made by the lowest bidder. So it would make sense to go to Mattel or Hasbro, or whoever they got now, to print more AR pattern rifles because it is so cheap. I can only see this given to Spec Ops/SF. If it could be mass produced, it would definitely give an edge in urban combat zones.
A micron in the upcoming 8.6 blk cartridge really would maximize every advantage of the MDRx - a large rifle cartridge with good accuracy and ballistics, all in a compact package. Throw on a lpvo and a qd suppressor, then you're set!
If they ever work out the switchable forward ejection systems for this super compact model, and upgrade it to a large subsonic round like that, it would quite possibly be the single best close quarters rifle ever made.
I've honestly been waiting for more content on this rifle for a while, specially seeing it in a match or something! Seems like a really good option for someone who wants a small rifle. I really like it's looks too, almost futuristic
That gun is really cool and it looks like it fuctions perfectly, i could see many people using that gun if they have the money, it looks really cool and unique, like something an infiltration team could use, or something a security force could use in a secluded space.
Same. I'm waiting until they get everything sorted on 5.56, 308, 300blk, and 8.6 blk, in all barrel-handguard configurations. One SBR to rule them all.
How has your experience been? I'm trying to decide between the MDRX or the Hellion, and don't really know anyone who has either to compare or try either one out.
@@RageMagikarp I got a first gen MDR when they finally became available and somehow miraculously got one that was almost perfect. I had to send it in to have an ejection panel adjusted. Your mileage my vary but the design has been improved since then.So the newer ones are supposedly fixed.Mine is in .308 and shoots moa with good ammo.Im overall happy with it and it's one of my favorites in my collection. Having the ability to reconfigure it is awesome for a nonstandard design. Mantis handguard is badass btw!I think the MDR is THE most ergonomic of all the bullpup designs and I can reload mine as fast or faster than my ar's The Hellion is time tested and military tough though.That says alot too.The Croatians love it for a reason.I don't think you could go wrong with either.My personal preference is the MDR.
Now if only they could fix the design, QA, and QC issues which lead to almost half of the rifles being non-functional and requiring months or years of dealing with RMA issues. I've got one, mine is actually a Micron now, and it finally works but the 3 times back to the factory and 12 other replacement part deliveries over the span of almost a year paints a pretty grim picture for reliability and longevity. If they can improve their metal heat treat process, improve their machining standards, and not sell calibers that catastrophically damage the rifle in less than 100 rounds(300blk) I think it will be an amazing rifle I'd choose over others; but being on barrel #4, gas piston #5, oprod #3, bolt #6, bolt carrier #2, and trigger pack #2 as well as being aware of how many other people have serious issues with a rifle they paid $2k+ for doesn't leave me with a whole lot of confidence.
Well they don't actually ship 300BLK Microns anymore, for that reason. It isn't a QC issue, they realized that 300BLK just doesn't work in the Micron, and that they need to come up with a solution for the low gas pressure. Their R&D has been trying to figure out how to make it work on the Micron and won't assemble a single 300 BLK until then. I tried, they literally will not sell a 300BLK right now, not even in rifle length barrels. So it's not like they're just sending out thousands of broken guns, they recognized the issues once they came up, and stopped making them until they can find a fix. Not to mention they also continue to provide warranty support to anyone who has a 300BLK currently. You should consider how many companies would replace that many parts before trying to blame the customer for the issue. Also consider how many other companies would outright deny that their designs have a problem to begin with.
@@nighttrucker9781 They never sold 300blk Microns, they only sold 16" which is what I had starting off with. And yes they are sending out lots of broken guns, the most common failures right now are bolts and cam pins snapping in half, and polymer still cracking. Prior to the bullpupforum going down there was an entire catalog of issues. I ditched 300blk and went to 5.56 after the 5th time my rifle bent a gas piston in half and beat the oprod to death. And yeah they're going to keep replacing parts because you can prove they screwed up and the parts don't fit, came busted, have visible defects, etc. Finally they do deny their design has a problem, they will only state that future wishes for "I want a FE 300blk Micron" would require "significant design changes". You have to get the real reason from elsewhere because no one will officially admit there is any problem.
@@Wolvenhaven well I have a 20" 6.5 that works flawlessly, and of the few people in the company I've talked to from their marketing team, they're always straightforward about issues they're dealing with. My 6.5 has between 4000-5000 rounds through it so far, and I've never had cam pins snap or polymer crack. I'm not sure what you're doing to your gun to break it so much, but I also regularly shoot with several other people who own MDRX's, and they've also never had any serious problems. If a company shipped nothing but broken guns, they would go bankrupt. But go ahead and complain. Chances are you had one problem with the gun, so now you cry like a Fudd on every post or video about them.
@@Wolvenhaven you also contradicted yourself there. They don't have a FE 300 BLK Micron, and they no longer ship 300BLK at all, because it requires significant design changes. They have already acknowledged it doesn't work properly with the current design. There's no hidden reason there my dude. My guess is that you're not a mechanical engineer, so maybe you don't realize that some calibers are not easy to swap. 300BLK has always been finicky no matter operation is used, because they are low pressure rounds even with supersonic ammo.
Considering that now SBRs are just as small as SMGs, if not smaller (SIG Rattler, this thing, etc), are SMGs now obsolete? I love SMGs, but considering that the price point between top of the line SMGs and SBRs are miniscule, I couldn't see why a tactical team, police, military or private security, would choose pistol-caliber SMGs with poorer stopping power and range. Genuinely asking, since I'm writing a book with heavy action centering around a police spec ops team in a lite-sci fi urban fantasy world and since I live in a country with extremely strict gun control, doing research on my own on this subject is quite difficult. Thanks in advance for any answer!
At least I got told that there are two main reasons police like the pistol rounds. The first is that most pistol rounds don't exit the body of the target and can't hit bystanders, the other reason is that usually the police don't want to actually kill the target so even with body armor it most likely render the target unable to fight after he got hit with a round and can be detained
There's another firearms expert I follow who works with Gamespot. Johnathan Young, I believe. He also works with Ian. In his work with Gamespot, when talking about sci-fi games, he often expresses doubt about how much longer SMGs will last. Some notable examples are in him reacting to Alien: Fireteam Elite and Mass Effect weapons. Here's a link to Alien: FTE ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-M5YylyfzXYQ.html However, while I am not a firearms expert, I would suggest that pistol-caliber weapons might see a comeback in an environment such as a space station or spaceship engine room where there's a lot of very tight quarters crammed with things you DON'T want to hit. It would be easier to armor essential components (electrical, atmosphere, things that might go boom if you shoot it) against low-powered pistol cartridges than an intermediate cartridge. And in a space station or spaceship, where EVERYTHING needs to be utilized to the maximum, it would be hard to justify armoring things enough to make even essential components bulletproof. Therefore, I can see why security forces on a civilian space station would use future MP-5s and shotguns and hope they could control firearms and body armor, rather than risk using higher-powered weapons.
I’m no expert either, but I believe another benefit to using a pistol caliber in a law enforcement setting is that they are easier to suppress. If you’ve ever fired a weapon in an enclosed area…. It’s not pleasant.
Forgotten weapons for me is slowly turning from a "Hey, the mechanical solutions are pretty neat in that gun" to "Hey, that gun is pretty neat, I'm gonna go look into whether I can get my hands on one for reasonable price". Learning about guns is fun, but owning and shooting them at the range is even more fun. I'm really eyeing a civillian Scorpion Evo my local shop has in store right, I love smgs and mini carbines.
This is the reason for bullpups - very compact in 5.56 for carrying as emergency backup. The battle rifles tend to suffer with lack of mounting rail / ubgl fits, and the ejection issue. Shame this last point regressed on this design, thank you for smooth review
Watching Ian trying to take the longer shots with an Aimpoint made me think about what I've seen people do with red dots at the range. People tend to crank up the brightness on the red dot, when they should be doing the opposite for accuracy. If you turn the brightness all the way down and bring it up slowly until one stop after being able to see it comfortably, this lower brightness is best for accuracy, as you don't have a slight corona blur around the dot like you do at higher brightness settings. This is key for taking accurate shots with a 1x or less red dot, especially if you are older and/or have astigmatism.
Seems like, since this is already a tax stamp gun, it may make sense for them to make an integrally suppressed 300BLK so that it gets that extra back pressure to operate reliably from the longer gas system.
I definitely like the slightly longer format, but definitely adding in dynamic shooting helps add a bit of experience value to the videos. The History/Exterior - Teardown/Design - Experience/Performance formula seems like it does a good job of explaining everything you need to know.
I have an MDRX in .556 and you can buy the micron conversion kit for it. I haven't done it yet because I don't want to give the Government any money for an SBR when the forward election model I have works wonderfully! But it is awesome to see it in action and I still want it lol!! Great job as always brother!!
11" is kinda a sweet spot for 556.. heck, even my psa11.5 upper on my ar22 I designed with a cmmg conversion is staying consistent out to 250-350ish with just irons. As good of a point and shooter as my full size 556 shtf gun. Kinda want to try this mdrx out now. Would be a great truck or qrf/irf kit gun
Biggest problem with 300 BLK is wide range of bullet speed vs barrel length variations and chamber cool down time. It needs a mechanical timing for ejection to be reliable at any bullet speed and barrel or gas length
Mechanical timing wouldn't do you any good b/c once you make it work for a specific bullet and loading then you're stuck with that. You can't exactly change a cam track, a spring rate, or bolt mass easily in the field. The best solution is an adjustable gas block, which is field adjustable. Gas ports for 300 blackout are usually sized very large so that they cycle with subsonic ammunition. When you change to supersonic ammunition the gun is technically over-gassed. That's where the adjustable has block comes in. Barrel length isn't really much of a factor with this cartridge. If you'll notice, all barrel lengths have the same gas system length. The cartridge generally uses a fairly fast burning pistol powder.
The problem is that the MDRX has the gas port very far down the barrel for 300 blackout (9.5 inches from the bolt face I believe), especially with such a short barrel. The gas system isn't really doing anything until the bullet passes the gas port, and then it's not doing anything again after the bullet leaves the barrel.
@@oldscratch3535 I've done adjustable gas block as well as pig tail and buffers, they all were failures. Pistol length gas is too early of extraction for supersonic. Even slow super sonic loads. Barrel length vs gas port position is an issue between super and sub sonic. Too long a Barrel with pistol gas will keep pressure too high during extraction for sub sonic. Pistol gas at any length of Barrel is too early for super sonic. The ejection starts before the pressure drop and extraction issues show up. With mechanical timing, they can reload after chamber pressures drop. But it will most likely become a machine-gun by definition.
Beautiful gun, and cool to see that it shoots well too! I always loved tiny but accurate rifles, my favourite loadout when playing Arma 3 coop is an MXC with Holo while everybody else carries some sort of a sniper for 300m engagements 🙃
The funny thing is a tiny .556 rifle with a lpvo on top can easily engage targets anywhere from 0-300 meters. With just a red dot on my 11 inch ar15 I can consistently hit a torso plate out at 300 meters, the bullet might be a little slow by then but I still don't want to get hit with it.
The normal size (not the super short barrels) does have a .300 Blackout option barrel, but I guess the super short barrel is so short there isn't enough barrel past the gas block to put enough pressure in the gas system.
@@shred1894 Not anymore, they discontinued it after my .300blk and several others would catastrophically fail in less than 100 rounds repeatedly. I have spent the last year going back and forth with I think at this point almost 15 RMAs to get a working rifle. Funnily enough mine is actually a Micron now and it had 2 RMAs for faulty parts but is actually functioning finally.
Glad I'm not alone in the thought that this thing looks adorable. Yet it's something I'd be proud to show off and try down the range. Not gonna lie, I kind of want it bad. Probably costs like $5000 or something though.
I really think bullpups are the future, but the one piece I still don’t understand is weight. Why are they so heavy? There is no real reason. I’ve heard they have to be beefier for safety because of chamber location, but you don’t want a standard rifle to explode near your face either. DT has proven the trigger can be fixed. Ergonomics are no problem if you actually take ~30min to train them. And the modern trend toward shorter rifles and suppressor / light-laser use are all things that fit the bullpup well as it retains barrel length while being short oal and balances better than conventional designs with a heavy suppressor and laser all the way on the end. To reiterate… why can’t they make a 6.5-7lb bullpup?!
The higher weights comes from the need to make the receiver save from the grip backwards cause you put your face their. The upside is that even with higher weight, the weight distribution lends itself for long marches cause most of the weight is close to the body. AR builds with lots of accessories and a heavy barrel are quite front heavy so some soldiers added a front grip just to make carrying easier. The big downsides of a bullpup are the trigger (long bars in most designs, best probably the RDB) and limited space at the front. Other than that there is problematic access to clear malfunctions and most lack an adjustable stock.
@@onpsxmember see that’s where I disagree… you don’t see ARs exploding, so there is no reason a bullpup has to be made any stronger just because it’s an inch or two closer to your face. An exploding AR would still be right near your eyes and neck. The “inaccessibility” of clearing malfunctions is completely false except for weird designs like the F2000 or alternate forward ejecting DT.
The thing about short barrels being bad at long range was something that Hickock45 taught me was wrong in a video from some years ago. His explanation was pretty simple. The shorter a barrel is the less it will flex if everything else is equal. That means that the precision can actually be higher with a shorter barrel. However the muzzle velocity will be lower so the bullet will take longer to get to the target. This makes it more susceptible to wind. So the end result depends on the situation. Other than that the sight radius using iron sights is also going to weigh in, but again even though they are still as precise, your accuracy using them will be lower. A barrel can be to short, but it's probably shorter than you think. A too short barrel is one where the bullet doesn't stabilized into the rifling and exits while still not true to the center axis of the barrel. So the ideal barrel length isn't always going to be the same. If you need the muzzle velocity you go for a barrel that allows the best use of the powder. But then you may have to up the barrel weight to make it stiffer. Now to be honest most of us would probably not be able to make use of the difference. But the physics is still there.
5.56 doesn’t like to come from barrels under ~10”. You lose a lot of accuracy under 10” with 5.56. This 11.5” should be absolutely shootable out to 300-400yd, which is *more* than plenty for a 5.56 rifle.
This is another very compelling argument for the bullpup by Desert Tech. Like many others, probably, I was saddened by the issue with .300 Blackout. Hopefully they'll find a workaround in this chassis, or if not, its next iteration.
5.56mm in a relatively heavy gun does make for a comfortable recoil. This logically decreases the advantage of a muzzle brake and being short increases the disadvantages.
I know this comes with its own drawbacks, but, has anyone thought of doing an electronic Trigger on a bullpups? Seems the main complaint is always the trigger pull, that could totally remove that.
4:20 Weird notion, but I wonder why they can't just thin the piston... would that not increase the gas pressure? Perhaps simply not by enough for how thin they can realistically get it. Edit: the MDRx is not a DI gun*
The problem is that as the round travels down the barrel, the gas pressure behind it drops. You can't increase pressure once its dropped, all decreasing tube size would do would be to allow less gas to be siphoned off.
Gas tube? It's short stroke gas piston (like pretty much all modern rifles), it dosn't have "gas tube". And you can't just make gas block and piston smaller. They have to be certain size to withstand forces acting on them times safety factor (whatever Desert Tech is using, but most likely at least 1.5) Americans and their AR fetish...
You might increase flow pressure to the chamber, but the tradeoff would be volume. Given the short distance between the gas tap and the end of the barrel, there may not be enough time to pressurize the cycling system to a sufficient degree...
As stated by others, the MDRX uses a short stroke gas piston operation. That "tube" houses a gas piston, you can't just simply make it thinner. It would require a complete redesign of the entire gas system.
Looks good for a security detail, truck gun, and or bug out bag. 11.5 55.6 gets the job done in shorter engagements just fine as well. All in all its a nich weapon but it's still cool af.
Super impressive gun and shooting! Don't know how to put it in words, but this is somehow a really cute gun. The design is incredible. Would be fun to see it with some attachments and a magnifier. Excellent video as always
