Thing about Willow and magic - she assumes that if she wants to do it, it must be okay to do. She's never really accepted Giles telling her that there are consequences and dangers...
This episode is so good. Sarah Michelle Geller's speech to Spike at the end is one of my favourite scenes from the whole show. Plus James Marsters really is fantastic too in this episode. When he says he saved her every night, bless him. I admit, from original airing, even before the heaven reveal, I was so annoyed with Willow feeling annoyed she wasn't thanked. For me season 6 is where we see so much superb acting, which in a show that's already this good, that's saying something!
This is a series where all of them get to show their acting chops along the way, and James Marsters starts here and doesn't let up until the season is done.
With respect to the discussion surrounding Willow and her increasingly reckless and selfish use of magic, don't forget she's hiding parts of it. Spike is exactly right -- Willow did not want Spike to know about the resurrection plan in case something went wrong. And Willow continues to minimize her actions and flat-out lie to Tara. Willow wasn't honest about how Dawn got the info to find the resurrection spell for Joyce, she wasn't honest about what the spell ingredient "vino de madre" was, and she lied to Tara in this episode when Tara asked her if she knew what the specter-Buffy was talking about ("Your hands smell of death...did you cut the throat? Did you pat its head?") when Willow knew the specter-Buffy was talking about the sacrifice of the fawn. Willow hides or lies about aspects of the magic she's using when she recognizes she may be going too far for the rest of the Scoobies. She doesn't want the group to stop her or interfere. It's almost like she's hiding an addiction.
chris is right since there are multiple dimensions there's no reason buffy couldn't go back. She was rewarded by something. Spike kinda being the only one to understand what she went through makes sense... James is such a good actor. when buffy is coming down the stairs and he realizes its her...give him all the awards please.
Ouch. Spike slams Xander against a tree at 4:31 and he full body shudders for a second but doesn't even acknowledge it. That slam surely got him a zap from the chip.
I remember rewinding that moment to watch it again the first time I saw this. You can see the pain go through his body and he just keeps going. Such good acting.
Just like that speach with Spike, one good day. You slip up once, you want it, you yearn the end, then we will slip in and have our selves one good day. Just like the way you said, she's tired of all this. Spike has always been my favorite, spitting truth everywhere he goes.
Her friends ain't shit, for real. Pat's right about her friends at least trying to commune with her spirit. But this season brings some fantastic acting moments for everyone. Can't wait to watch you guys to see some of the episodes coming soon!
After S5 I never thought the show could approach the heights of _The Gift_ probably my favorite episode. But the ending scene here comes close. I never fail to tear up: "Wherever I was ... I was happy. At peace. I knew that everyone I cared about was all right. And I was warm ... and I was loved ... and I was finished. I don't understand ... any of it, really ... but I think I was in heaven." "I was torn out of there. Pulled out ... by my friends. Everything here is ... hard, and bright, and violent. Everything I feel, everything I touch ... this is Hell." Loved your discussion. What do you do when you remember heaven? I personally think she would commit suicide, and if prevented she would never stop trying. Or she would become the world's greatest moral philosopher.
Love your Buffy reactions! It makes Thursday the day I'm looking forward to the most. Your predictions were also spot on at the beginning of the episode haha
I LOVE you guys! Pat's been SO aware, this whole time, that Buffy was ready to rest, and that, even before it was made clear where she'd been pulled from, she did NOT want to return to this Slayer life! Marketa's totally rolling with the fact that she, just like Willow, had been wrong about where Buffy's soul had been, and immediately understanding the implications! - And also her big Anya love! Spidey pointing out that Buffy's SUCH a good friend - and then saying that he wouldn't've kept it to himself! Rana's strong agreement, and clear emotional investment in the story and admiration for the actors! And Chris: following his admiring exclamation last episode that "Oh my God! This has some good emotional moments!" with some great analysis about both where Buffy may have been, and where the show is NOT trying to make a statement, re: the afterlife! Great stuff!
Yes. Very much so. For someone as smart as Willow proclaims to be she makes some stupid decisions based on her emotions. As we’ll see for the whole of season 7.
The “Earth” in the Buffyverse is indeed a lesser hell-dimension. There are far worse hell dimensions which make Earth look like a paradise by comparison, but make no mistake: Earth is indeed a hell dimension itself.
Poor Buffy. I always kind of get annoyed with Willow whining that Buffy didn't thank her. She just assumed Buffy was in hell. She barely considered anything else, or asked about where she was.
It seems to me like the main reason why they brought her back is because Sunnydale could not survive without her. If they believed that she was suffering in hell, I think that they would have done the spell way earlier. Willow should be the one grateful that she's back, because even as a group the gang wouldn't survive a fight.
Remember when this was a fun and campy show? When Game of thrones got succesful cause everyone dies left and right and got people heartbroken I honestly always thought that no character death could get me as heartbroken as the traumatizing events this lovely characters go through this show. Buffy ressurrection is more traumatizing than her death. This show starts so light and simple that when shit happens you REALLY feel it
"It's just a deer" It's not though. The fawn was a representation of purity and innocence. It's why Willow was wearing white when she killed it. It was a dark act killing it. A blood sacrifice in order to wield the dark magics needed to resurrect Buffy.
If Willow didn't expend her energy on that spell, she could have stood up against those bikers. With the full force of the scooby gang, they could have saved the town
I don't think so but even if she could save the the town that day, they clearly established in the first episode that they couldn't save it always, without buffy
Chris is right, this show doesn't really care about theology and metaphysics. Returning from heaven is a metaphor for going from childhood irresponsibility and fun and being thrown into the deep end of adulting.
After Life was a great episode where Buffy reveals to Spike that was pulled out of Heaven, (foreshadowing here when Buffy said before 'is this hell) We see Buffy again experiencing her depression, which from the death of Joyce onwards is always there. She says to Giles in S5 Finale The Gift, ' I don't want to live in a world like this if these are the choices, if everything keeps getting stripped away'. Spike also reveals in S5 episode Fool For Love 'every slayer has a death wish, even you'. Buffy is obviously not the same since coming back, she has been torn out of heaven, and does not know how to deal with life now. Of course she was right when she said to Dawn at end of The Gift ' the hardest thing in this world is to live in it' and she was right. Great acting from both SMG and James Marsters in this episode, we can see the Spuffy relationship growing. This episode sets up a great Season arc. I can understand why some fans dislike S6, but I thought it was a great Season, much more adult due to network change from WB to UPN.
Spike!!!! I'm just going to say it. Glad Angel got his own show. Spike is sooo much better at least for this show. Also everyone was on their game this episode.
Why you spike groupies have the need to mention angel when talking about Spike? You sound so petty and childish as the characters themselves when they fighting. And just because you find it hot. I'm not even an angel fan but that's a little cringe
Season 6 is honestly one of my favorite seasons of the show because it dealt with very mature/dark issues including severe/morbid depression, senseless murder by human means, giving in to darkness/revenge/addiction. This and seasons 2/3/5 are the best in my opinion. I grew up watching Buffy when it was originally airing with my big sister so it's one of our shows we share (alongside the spinoff Angel which I HIGHLY suggest you watch/react to).
i have been waiting for them to get to this season since they started the show i Cant wait for episode 7 hands down best episode of the show bar none they are gunna love it
We can go around and around for days, but _the only things we know for certain_ are that the Scooby Gang thought Fubby was trapped in a Hell dimension, when she was finally at peace in Heaven. Then they ripped her from the bliss of Heaven. 😫
There was no reason to think Buffy's soul had been sucked out and existed in a Hell Dimension. The portals were physical portals to other places and physical demons were coming out. There wasn't anything spiritual. It's never explained why Willow jumped to this conclusion and convinced everyone else (apart from making it easier to convince everyone to resurrect her). Was one of the dafter plots and everyone glosses over it.
I actually never though Buffy was in hell, back then. So much so, that I got mad every time they mention it. I was like, WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT ? XD With what we knew, Buffy's corpse being back on earth, and what the first slayer told Buffy in season five (wich she told everyone of them right after she came back and spike was abducted by Glory!)... I was convinced she was in heaven ! Because it made way more sense in my opinion. I mean, Angel went in a hell dimension (first his body too, not just his soul), but more importantly, he did because he was raising a demon and doing evil ! It never crossed my mind that Buffy was taken into one of the hell dimensions, because we saw her body. AND she did that to save the world and Dawn. It was the opposite as Angel (good vs evil). In my mind, if Buffy was taken to a hell dimension that opened (like it happened with Angel and Acathla) she would have been gone, her body would have been snatched like angel's was. Because the two events were pretty similar int that way ! >> Hell dimension opened, death to close it, closed, body and soul gone
It's incredible that after everything Buffy has experienced, she found the courage to do the right thing, to protect her loved ones from the truth! a real hero, as Giles would say, not like us.. 💔
Pat was right all along! I gotta admit. The guy is either saying the most inappropriate tone deaf things or he is very insightful and can see the situation from the character perspective. How is he doing it?
Buffy specifically states she doesn't know about theology specifically to keep the show from going into religious territory. Chris understood and explained it very well, considering it was his first time watching. It is Buffy's own personal belief she was in heaven because that is the easiest way to describe where she was, which was a place where she was at peace. I personally believe she was with her mom, wherever it was. The Scoobies saying they thought Buffy was in hell was the group making an assumption without proof to justify what they knew (and already said no to Dawn about her mom) on doing. I can't get behind the argument of them thinking it's a good enough reason, otherwise many people have reason to be resurected. Communicating with the dead and seeing whether or not Buffy was in heaven is the only way I would buy justification for the Scoobies doing what they did and considering Buffy wasn't in hell, we know what the answer on that would be, so bringing her back to life isn't justified. You can't even really make a good argument for assuming she was in hell being the portal was open because that portal opened all dimmensions, good and bad. There's really no justification on any part of it for The Scoobies needing to resurect Buffy. There were other options all along the way they should have done. A good example being Buffy isn't the slayer. Faith is. Willow has the hacking skills to get her out of prison. Not doing so and not dealing with their issues towards Faith, causes Buffy issues. I love the look on Spike's face upon realizing it's Buffy and not the Buffybot. All vampires buried in coffins would have to claw out of them, not nececarilly all vampires, though. The Scoobies not only helped bring about one of Buffy's fears, but Willow wants a thank you for Buffy being in that situation. 🤨☹🙄 Xander acting like it's no big deal when Spike is angry deserves the wake up. 4:48-4:50 Buffy's depressed. That's a consequences right there. That combined with the hitch-hicker and Buffy being pulled out of heaven are two more consequences. Chances are it won't stop there. Their will be a chain reaction of situations just off Buffy being depressed, if nothing else, but you can't say there won't be anything else minus the chain reaction. Anya being onboard the _we made a mistake in bringing Buffy back_ train along with Tara and Xander (after what Spike said and the hitch-hicker) questioning it are what make it easier on the fanbase with their forgiveness on Buffy's resurection. Spike and Dawn weren't involved, but that doesn't mean they won't be inhabited. It just means it's not who the hitch-hicker is after. It's after the people involved. Only going after Buffy, as a reason to stay "alive" once The Scoobies realize how to kill it. "That's what someone who's possessed would say." LOL Chris.
Imagine having gone to heaven and then back to this world? yes it'd be a hell... everything has a wrongness to it if you've been to a place that is completeness, peace, 'and end to purpose and a reward of eternal compassionate rest'.
it's awful to know her friends took her away from paradise. i wonder if any other slayer had this fate. is this one reason slayers don't have connections??
You raised good questions about "heaven" and Buffy being revived, and some of it will be explored in the future, so I won't say anything. But they explain it, and Spike was kinda right with what he said. In the Buffyverse, like in the MCU and other fictional universes, they don't confirm "god"'s existence, but they do say there's an afterlife (in the MCU there's even different planes, depending on your species, race or how you die). But Buffy being ressuscitated or her dying didn't have "god"'s interference. She was just revived by magic, and she also died because of magical causes. "God" didn't allow or played any part in Willow reviving her. [That's not a spoiler btw, they just don't mention any of it in the show, it's implied only magic played a part in it based on the episodes we've already watched]
I think it's reasonable to believe that Buffy went to a hell dimension because that's what the portal did, it opened portals to other hell dimensions. But I do wonder if her friends actually believed she was in a hell dimension, vs wanting it to be true so they had a good reason to bring her back. She's gone through a portal into a hell dimension before, in the opening episode of season 3. But slipping through a portal vs dying in order to close one are 2 different things. I think they should have realized it was different this time. But if it were me, I probably would have sided with everyone just in case she was in a hell dimension. It's just too horrible a prospect to consider leaving a friend there, you know? But, I think a little part of me would wonder if she was sent to a heaven dimension. Because if Buffy didn't go to heaven when she died, how would anyone have a chance? Who the slayer line runs through is a bit of a spoiler honestly, so no one should be commenting. But there is a clear answer, it isn't up for debate.
its called : A Court of Thorne & Roses series by Sarah J Mass. Other Book Recs: - Thorne of Glass - Crescent City - Foxglove King - Butcher & Blackbird - Powerless - The Time I Got Drunk & Saved A Demon - Bride - Divine Rivals - One Dark Window - Where's Molly -
@TheNormies ... I don't remember that in ACOTAR... oh...no.. I guess I have to re-read the series... what. Is. A. Girl. To do?😅😅😜😜 Sincerely, An Aziel Girly😅😜🥰🥰🥰
So I know it was 6 months ago, but question... if Willow pulled Buff out of heaven and also has blood of the innocent on her hands from doing that, do you think she gave up her own chance to end up in heaven, no matter how much good she does with Scoobies?
I just realized this is 6x3 and it's a month old, that means they've watched the episode I've been counting down too since day 1. Now I'm really wondering how they dealt with surviving one of the Darkest episodes of TV ever. oh wait they might have done once more with feeling too but No Spoilers. if you know, You know.
"She has to go out naturally or die in battle, she can't just off herself." ...Assuming that she would have gone there after dying naturally. There's an even crueller idea - that Willow's idea about Buffy's soul ending up where it did because she died by jumping into a dimensional portal was right, and _that's_ why she ended up in heaven. It's entirely possible that she only got there because of the portal, and can thus _never go back._ Ever. She notably doesn't mention any dead allies or loved ones when she talks about heaven, people who you'd think would have ended up there if it worked like Christian heaven...
