Hi I have enjoyed cycling over the last 35 years or so until I gave up about 4 years ago following a serious back injury. Two rounds of major surgery later I started convalescence but had become unable to manage my road bike at all, I purchased a Scott e bike which I suddenly found I could ride and enjoy but must admit I avoided other riders when climbing as I felt as though I was being a fraud , rather odd really as we were not competing against one another I just felt uncomfortable doing it . The biggest benefit with the e bike was it helped me back to better health and I have now sold the Scott and resumed enjoying my road bikes . I believe that without the e bike I may have lost cycling for ever. I definitely feel there are benefits to be had in my case it allowed me to continue my hobby whilst actively recovering.
kevin worth Yes. I just wrote above something to what your saying. For those recovering from knee surgery or back problems a little "assist" is not a bad thing. Welcome back to health!
My haematocrit is low and I stand to get a good 10% increase in red cell mass from it.... Unfortunately the only way to (legally) access it would be to develop anaemia secondary to renal failure!
I have a back injury that is not going to get better. I gave up cycling as it was just too painful. A few years ago I tried a Kalkhoff Agatu. Very upright comfortable riding position. I bought one the same day! It has enabled me to get out on a bike again. Not everyone who cycles wants to race or even go fast. I like touring with my loaded up panniers. Been to the Netherlands and all around France on it. Best thing I ever bought. Ebikes have a place but not in a race.
I've watched about 15 GCN videos this morning (I really should be doing some work...) but I just wanted to say thank you for being such a reasonable and level-headed bunch of presenters/producers. Often bike shows seem to be full of elitism, and give out "advice" which is only really relevant to professionals with big teams + financing to back them up. You guys are so different; you perform sensible tests & analysis, and then describe what these mean to a whole range of cyclists, from pros to commuters to teenagers. You are doing a great job of making the community more inclusive, and encouraging more people to get out of their car and onto a bike! Keep it up!
That is actually interesting.. I had a huge crash last year and broke my back.. I lost a lot of strength in my right quad so that would allow me to keep up on easy rollers...obviously weekend rides.. no racing
+J. David Wilson You're probably better off getting a hub motor, though, rather than one of these stealth BB ones. If you're just looking for a little boost, while providing most of the power yourself, I would suggest looking for one that's internally geared with a freewheel. The advantage to those is that they don't give you any additional drag when you're not using the motor. Direct drive ones are still ridable, but the drag is noticeable. I would say it feels similar to the difference between slicks and knobbies.
Agree, I can't see the point of hidden motors besides cheating. A proper electrical bike would do the job much better. It could provide more power and longer battery life while not being any more expensive or even cheaper.
NeoDerGrose well alot of people don't like a big ass battery and motor on their bike lol me on the other hand I don't give a fuck tbh but it could also just be for the purpose of for places that ban electric motors in bikes which is obviously stupid that's like saying a motorcycle shouldn't have an engine lmao
I’m a chef and I work in a kitchen all day for years. It wrecks your knees way before your time. I bought an e-bike last fall and have been getting fit again. My knees are even getting better as I’ve been riding a regular bike as well. I am now in the market to get a gravel bike. Thanks GCN!
Try rubber pads the ones with holes but thick rubber. Yeah concrete is bad on knees .. i do tile work , I use a thick rubber pad. Knee pads always slide off...
@@percyfaith11 ignorant comment from someone that’s probably never done physical work in their life. Cooking for a restaurant is nothing like cooking at home. You ever see how many plates come out during a lunch and dinner rush?
Using motors in racing is obviously a very, very bad idea. But I see a lot of people here hate e-bikes in general. I own an e-bike and a "normal" road bike that I use to get around, and I hear this all the time, that it is cheating and so on. The one thing most of these people criticizing e-bikes have in common is that they own a car. HOW IS THAT NOT CHEATING!? I even see some of these people with their bikes on roof racks on their cars! Relax guys, it is just a means of transportation, just like a car or a bus or whatever. And probably the most environmentally friendly at 18 times more energy efficient than an SUV. Using e-bikes is nothing to be ashamed of. I think it is something to be proud of if it means one less petrol powered car on the road. But like I said... not in racing ;)
Well you're still creating emissions with an E-bike, Not exactly *from* the bike but by using it, which has batterys, which is usually created by a coal or some kind of plant which in most cases creates emissions.
@@isatntt still much better than riding SUV and e-bikes in general enables us to carry heavy stuffs like what we bought from the market. I also have both e-bike and normal road bike...
Riding "normal" bike might be creating even more emissions cause you burn calories and have to eat more. Specially if eating meat. Not saying cycling or meat is bad thing but still.
@@isatntt I mean, you existing causes emissions. We all need to live our lives, it's just that we should try and do so my polluting the environment as little as possible. A x18 reduction in something (from a high base) is a lot.
WalrusRider maybe juice the motor - give it an electric equivalent of Nitrous??? (Btw - ive no idea what that is, but im damn sure it would be some workout to keep your feet on the pedals!!).
i love that these guys pointed out the pluses of this (like my wife - new to road racing- using it to keep up) rather than just poo-pooing the idea like many cyclists do. great stuff
I used to be a great cyclist till I had a heart attack. As it turns out, exercise alone is not enough to keep the arteries clear. Thankfully it was a minor one. I didn't even realize I had one, and it was only a few weeks later when I became unable to climb hills on my bike that I knew there was a problem. I didn't want to give up cycling though, so I turned my bike into a Ebike. It has actually helped me in my recovery. I can pedal for as much as I can, then let the motor take over while I let my heart calm down.
A proper e-bike would give much better performance and value for money. So if an e-bike is what you want or need. Then get the real deal and not this shady shenanigans. The only reason to hide it, is to pretend you're doing it yourself.
Actually, while I agree it shouldn't be hidden, this does offer two big advantages: power, and weight. I'm fat and handicrapped, with a 25% hill at my front door. Planning to buy a trike later this year, and putting a motor on it. As I tell my doctor, i want enough power to help me over the hills, and no more. At 100-200 watts, this would give me the power i need (again, not want), and guessing bottle battery is same weight, about half the total weight as the tsdz2 motor (without battery) i plan to use, so less extra weight to haul around. The bad is the gruber is about 6.5x the cost of the tsdz2 with battery, and about three time that of either trike i'm considering.
I would use it, I don’t compete, and doesn’t looks that expensive to park somewhere, I know gipsy people in my town (they told me) they would rob one if it looks over 1000 euros and electric.
I have a race cube but I get allot of pain in my leg on long rides I have a cube with a motor with varying assist levels it stops working at 15.5 mph as per the law but with my knee injury I can do long distances and touring no problem with a range of 150 miles assisted it's a game changer for me, but get this it also allows me to stay on my fat burning zone so helps me loose weight ;)
+A J MacDonald Jr . Is it likely that an electric motor that can transport a commuter to work and back (10miles each way ) for less than 10p a day AND burn no fossil fuels AND increase fitness AND provide a sweat-less travel experience has merit?
This seems like a great idea. Perhaps it could be combined with EPO and blood doping to go super fast. It looks like a winner. I’ll be getting one for my next road race.
We are 8 years on, and still not a single case of motor doping in the pro peloton. In fact there has never been a case of a bike being ridden in a race and found with a motor. Femke Van den Driessche was not caught actively racing on a motor assisted bike, it was parked up in the pits, never actually used.
I have no problem with motors being used to keep up with someone. A wife can ride with her husband or reverse. But why does it have to be hidden? Companies that make these motors are only contributing to mechanical doping.
In my case being a teenage son I strive to be faster than my dad, and that's what motivates me to train harder and more frequently. Furthermore beating him up a climb or to a town sign is so much more satisfying than being powered by a hidden motor that you both know is there.
That's the spirit! I long for the day that my own kids will drop me on the local climbs. Nothing would make me more proud! Please ignore the other negative comment and keep running your old man to the ground :)
Steven Dolman that's not a big deal, I ride a fixed gear bike, basically the same, I clip out and in with turning pedals all the time. Now, if it were Matt on the other hand... btw. Nederlander?
I love telling people I ride my Electric bicycle every day and getting their reactions. Most people say, that's cheating! or you should get a real bike and pedal! But then when i tell them it's my only form of transportation and ask them if it's okay if they put gas in their car. They usually change their thoughts and opinions after that. (ô¿ô)
They are great for this purpose, they are also perfect to pull a small trailer. This is a very economical and environmental friendly mobility, which needs much less recources than driving a car, even a electric one.
@@simonm1447 not really as lithium batteries come from chinese slave mines that pollute worse than petrol cars and use dirty grid energy. E-bikes are great but you're deluding yourself with that pseudo-environmentalist BS. This is why Trump ends up winning.
I can see these being great for commuters, getting to the office/work without becoming a sweaty mess would be a bonus to many people no doudt. I don't think I'd ride one myself though, maybe once the old knees are shot to bits haha.
I think it will depend if the bike if it's for a commute. I'd love to have a motor on my commuting bike going up Stanedge (Pennines) everyday so I don't have to turn up to uni in a ball of sweat haha.
It makes no sense on a road bike, but for commuting around town, an electric bike works extremely well, especially since you can usually keep a higher average speed for less effort, and benefit from still being a bicycle and cutting the traffic. In these cases, the motor doesn't need to be hidden...
My bf has a prosthetic knee replacement due to a motorcycle accident. It's getting really painful to mountain and road bike. Once a great road and mountain bike rider he now struggles to keep moving due to the pain. If I understood your comment, it does make sense to have them on road bikes... and mountain bikes too for those who have some type of injury. Nice to have some type of assistance on every pedal.
Electric bikes are great for shorter distances to work instead of a car, they can even be used for pulling a bicycle trailer for some goods. The extra weight on the rear axle make them safer to drive when using a trailer compared to lightweight normal bikes, and you're as fast with the trailer as without it, which is not possible with a normal bike.
Other racers on the peloton are sure getting pissed at me as I lay my bike down and go around to every single person's bike accusing them of having hidden motors in the seat stay!
My thoughts on hidden motors in pro cycling are if they have been used (or being planned to be used) it would be at such a climb as the Alp d'Huez where the atmosphere in the crowd is high energy and loud to cover any close scrutiny of the bikes on passing and, obviously, mask the noise. The wattage isn't going to assist greatly with an attack but it would work well for preserving a riders energy to attack after the climb while their fellow riders are a bit out of puff. Might I add that I really hope this never has happened and never will.
Makes me laugh when friends say it's cheating as if riding a bike is always some kind of competition! I also had a back injury (that's not why I built my ebike) and it has helped me recover. I go out on my bike (mainly off road) to enjoy the countryside. Any exercise I do is just an added benefit. Cycling for two or three hours (even if it's assisted) is pretty good exercise. I've done over 5000km on my ebike over the last three years!
My question, since I had up to recently been quite skeptical about their use in the peloton: how long will the motor give you 100w, and how heavy is the battery? I always thought that on a long race the added weight would, well, outweigh the temporary benefit of the motor.
Generally speaking, batteries provide a lot more energy than their weight would penalize you. Say you have a battery that can produce 100w for 1 h. That is 360,000 J of energy. So even on a stage where you have to climb 10000 meters (and we count no downhill benefit), as long as the system is less than 3.6 kgs, you will come out ahead, which seems likely. That’s not to even count the fact that you can use it strategically (don’t use it whilst drafting and then use it all at once for a big attack).
Just want to comment on Dan's point. Electric bike is the greatest invention in biking from the wheel,(not kidding but smiling in the same time), well maybe after gears. As Dan said your spouse or mate, may benefit from electric bike, not necessarily hidden. Example: as I train my mate would not keep up, but now I struggle to keep up with her, now she on the electro bike she can do 300W and go faster in hills. Of course the speed is limited to 25km/h so on flats I am faster, but there are no flats there. + Big PLUS is fir people that have some health issues, say joint problems, the may enjoy this, keeping up with healthy mates AND getting fitter healthier and maybe may heal and recover from those problems. Cycle long and prosper.
If that one is sold in the UK then i;m 100% sure it's illegal. As far as i'm aware you're only allowed to us a PDEAL ASSIST motor in the UK, if it's just a switch it on or throttle controlled motor then it's effectively a motor vehicle.
+William Hitchens In the UK the pedal assist by law is limited to 15km/h, after then it's supposed to cut out. All in all, disappointing that GCN didn't even mention the legalities, they probably aren't even aware otherwise why on earth would they publish a video of two staff members breaking the law!
As an older guy who still rides my road bike specialized Roubaix I decided to get an e-bike mtb to go riding with my 33 year old son. Even with a big battery (trek fuel EXe ) it doesn’t give that much for that long. But I guess pros can use anything they can get
For me, the most interesting thing about this video is that the motorized bike is branded "race". Doesn't that give rather the wrong impression? It's one thing to say that the manufacturer isn't responsible for how people use their product but explicitly naming your product after a forbidden use of that product is rather taking the piss, don't you think?
For a minute I was thinking this would be the best thing ever for touring. But if the motor runs at a given speed instead of adding to your pedal power.... Nope. Useless! :D
the sole purpose to make this bike was to deceive . 1, its not pedal-ec, its a full on motor that turns without pedaling 2, pedal-ec is actually a pedal assist that has a large visible battery and bosch motor designed to assist and will not go if pedal power is not given. 3. pedal -ec biking is for people who like uphilling , as well as down. climbing stairs . also for people with injured knees or arthritis. what this bike is an example of a moped...full power without any effort from rider.
I'm 22 and I'd love a motor on my bike, especially because I often cycle to swimming or the gym or whatever. Yes, it's great to get exercise but sometimes I'm just so dead and an assistive motor would keep me out of the car- might even get a little trailer and end up buying big-shop groceries or something without the worry of weight on the way home. If I ever have the money I will definitely buy a bike with a motor- you can choose to use it or not, when you want to push yourself you can. Hopefully it'll get more bikes on the road and more cars off.
I think bikes with motors are great . I'm 72 [270 lbs] and cycle my mountain bike to keep fit. When I'm out on my bike a lot of other cyclists overtake me, but they are cheating because they have a hidden motor on theirs [I presume]
I'm a fairly active rider that could not keep up with the fast group rides in this area. On Strava my best mountain bike climbs will rank around the 50% range. I added a mid drive to my old mountain bike with a 500 watt motor that is limited to 20 mph. The hill on the south side of town that I would normally ride up in low gear on my mountain bike I raced up with my e-bike. I beat the KOM on Strava by over one minute. The real KOM was just over 15 minutes. I deleted my time so it does not show up.
Sure. You know that the the doping in cycling is synonymous with cheating. Personally I think that it has a better ring to it than cheating. That's a weird statement to make, they both sound bad.
Friend got an e-assist bike to help him get to work and back in reasonable time. He installed a power meter so that he can still ensure that HE is getting a good workout to record. Basically what they're saying. Cycling doesn't get any easier with the power, just factor. His wife and daughter are glad he did this.
I'm sorry but I don't think this was a good video. I'd much rather see some form of objective test like keeping the same heart rate, measuring oxygen consumption, etc... and actually figure out if it affects competitive performance.
Think we will see more and more mechanical doping as the technology becomes more and more advanced. It ups the averages, change the bike for a short spell in a competition and a gain will be made.....if only in terms of less exertion and fatigue. There are some Italian made machines out there today that are very powerful and where all is totally hidden.....and there is every reason to believe that this type of technology has been used in the major races that we all enjoy so much. Forget doping the rider....this is the new way to win (sadly). Thanks guys for posting this!!
Yeah the whole thing with e-bikes and motorized cycles just doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah sure they are cool looking and yeah you can go faster and and stuff. But like if the goal is to go fast and look cool why not go all the way and buy a motorcycle that can easily beat a bike hands down. At some point you will see a failure in logic, some seemingly counter productive, and contradictory reasoning that the more you think about it the more you will realize that the purpose and value of a bicycle doesn't necessarily lay in it's ability to go fast and look cool. I had a bicycle in grade school and high school. I gave up riding it when I grew out of it. I just now purchased a new bicycle recently and the reasons I purchased it wasn't so that I could get to one place or another at light speed or so that i could look cool at all. The reason I purchased it was a list of things including. Losing weight, saving gas money, reducing harm on my environment, exploration, getting more out door time to help me with depression, allowing me to easily visit my family without sitting in traffic for an extra 20 minutes every day, and one of the big ones was so that i can still feel like I'm accomplishing something my self without relying on motors and batteries. If I were somehow alone in this line of thinking I would believe that bicycles would have been lost to history and replaced entirely with scouters and motorbikes. But just like I think many know, bicycles haven't gone away completely and are making a comeback in many areas. I for one live in Minnesota and go to school in Minneapolis. The city has invested so much money in new bicycle paths and services for bicycle commuters that it is extraordinary. The only things I can think of for e-bikes is that they are just another ridiculous way for people to cheat themselves and others. it's basically like replacing the tip of a real feather ink quill with a ballpoint ink tip from a modern day pen, It's just super ridiculous and it kinda defeats the purpose of having something like that. it's like going to a concert and standing outside the stadium to watch it all on a small monitor in front of the doors. it's taking something that has value and merit on it's own and modifying it in such a way that It no longer makes you feel good about yourself. It's essentially you ignoring everything except the end result. In a world with so many technologies and possibilities, you would think that we would use them to better benefit ourselves and our happiness instead of using them to render what we love meaningless.
If it's working beyond 25kph then it's illegal in the UK. Just how illegal? Well you're riding a motor vehicle, without registration, VED, MOT, license, insurance... So very illegal if you get caught.
+TheAegisClaw The police have real criminals to go after. Everyone can and does go faster than 25kph where possible, so unless they start doing spot motor checks this is highly unlikely
+TheAegisClaw You're missing the point. Let's just ignore the ridiculous law for the moment. There's no way the police are going to bat an eyelid if you're doing over 25 with a hidden motor
I can see the benefit for those with light knee problems using an motor "assist" going uphill or other difficult days but still want to ride. It'll take the edge off those knees. Refusing to lay down but go down peddling in old age. Even if it has a motor. Good on ya.
I got an E bike kit because they completely outlawed combustion-driven pushbikes where I live. They both went about the same top speed (25km/h) but I dont have to put up with the smell of petrol and oil leaks
How to ensure that none of your competition cheats with an "electric advantage" in the next race you do: Do a self-supported bikepacking race. Gonna be hard to use that thing for very long, much less recharge it when you're doing 100+ miles per day in the backcountry wilderness, miles away from any electrical power sources. At that point it's nothing more than useless dead weight. Fail.
Cyclists are inherently dishonest, a normal child will want to grow up and get a car a car or motorbike, a cyclist will ride his bike at his friends and parents legs as a child and then grow up doing it for the rest of his hateful life, which will tragically be cut short (hopefully).
I was watching this and thought the road looked familiar. Revealed at 4.23 as the Old Bristol Road, a short bike ride from where I live. Quite a serious hill and even the newer road further east is not something to be trifled with. Some of the hills in the Mendips are absolutely insane, like Draycott Steep.
I am addicted to your channel someone help off lol...maybe it's the calming British accents...ever since I did a 200+ k from Toronto to Niagara I am now an avid biker averaging 30 to 40K a day 5 days in the city and I can't get tired....weird. I would love to ride around the those cool British country roads.
Simon talking about getting faster on a bike and bossing the peleton regarding a motorised road bike...whilst sitting on that aero bike. I know which one would boss the peleton.
Would love to see a side-by-side comparison using one of these motors: ride it once without a motor then come back a week later and have the same rider do the same hill with a motor and compare the effort in watts, speed, and time.
One year Contador changed bikes a couple of times during a stage of Le Tour. I was convinced he was making use of a bike like this one. They tried to hide that he was changing bikes and weren't pleased to have been spotted doing it by the TV coverage.
74 years young vet Tony Siveter of Retford Wheelers told me he has got to have a pace maker fitter & said "is this mechanical doping" we laughed, this man has ridden in races with Tommy Simpson around Harworth Notts what a clam to fame.
They now have to x-ray bikes prior to every stage start to find the motors because some riders were using them in that not too distant past and possibly currently to this day.
