Mechanical Hackamores Are Abusive - Here's Why 

Thanks Ross!

I think you are referring to the bitless bridles where if you pull on the left rein it attaches to the right side of the face? Being a cross under? I'm not sure. If that's the case, I don't recommend them, it's more clear and better to just pull on the side of the face where you want them to go, otherwise you end up pulling in a twisting fashion where the right side of the face would tip toward the ground and pull the jaw to the left kind of thing.

me too

Mostly competitive worlds and it's a painful way to control a horse mostly to stop as the concern for the rider is that they won't be able to make the horse stop or backup.

Sounds like you had a good father and grandfather to learn from.

You've got it. You'll see horses really fight these things when too much pressure is applied. Yes, the nose bone would break first.

Thanks for your answer !

I am just wondering if they are even more painful than a bit because the nose is extremely sensitive and vulnerable

I believe they can be

Yes, a horse would be happier to not be ridden.

The problem is that horses have always been used for work (and wars) since they were domesticated. Now they no longer work in many countries, the traditions are transmitted from generation to generation to use them for sport, pleasure, fame and revenue (the business deriving from the horse's world is thriving)

@@martineinfrance, I agree. If we could transform sports into something like dog sports where the person runs next to the dogs for them to go threw tunnels and over bridges...etc. We could do that with horses. If you want to barrel run horses, have the horse do the barrels at liberty. That would make it more challenging and more entertaining. I bet the horse would have fun, also.😄

@@leadfootmama absolutely but people want to ride them for various motivations, closer contact with the horse, speed, jumping, hunting, outdoor sports.. . And many other motivations outside financial interest, racing or competition. During my horse years, I personally much preferred to be with them, care for them groom them, feed them, clean their stalls.. And walk them like dogs, rather than be on their back!

@@martineinfrance, I believe that is why there is so much horse abuse in the world. Financial interest, racing, or competition. I love spending my time with my horses. Do I want to ride them? Sure. But I don't have to, to find joy with them.

It's a mechanical hackamore and completely unacceptable in my opinion. Side pulls are a 1:1 pressure base and do not provide mechanical advantage like the leverage based mechanical hackamores. Working with a horse should never be about resorting to leverage. If you have to even reach down to their face to make something happen, you and your horse are still stuck in kindergarten. Which is fine to be at for a bit, but a graduation needs to happen where we all stop pulling on horse's faces.

You're the first person who has noticed! I wrote that in at the last minute as a joke

I did laugh. 😄 your sense of humor came through. 😂

One to one pressure is fine. I use a bitless bridle quite often

There is never a need for a bit in my opinion.

You're very welcome!

Halters are a one to one force as there is no leverage. All the force is directed to the nose in a pulling fashion.

Well, you're right, as long as you're not the worst then that's good enough. Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

It's true, I'm preaching to the choir for sure, but now they have something to show people when they go and make a case for those not in the choir yet. That's my goal, to give people objective proof of the tools being used on horses, rather than it being subjective and having nothing to back up their thoughts on why something is "bad".

There is never a case to use such an abusive device. Use it if you will, but know that you are wielding a weapon against the horse and you will always be giving yourself that option, it shapes who you are and will be. Simple as that. If you can't ride with control without a weapon, then you're sacrificing moral integrity for ego. Just saying.

@@StableHorseTraining Thanks for your response. That said, we may have to agree to disagree on this one. From our experience, horses, like people, come in all sizes, shapes, and personalities. We'll continue to respond to this horse based on his unique life story and nature, and hope that one day we can transition him further to being ridden safely with just a light-harness. In the meantime, I won't take offense or be triggered by claims of "wielding weapons" or "sacrificing moral integrity for ego". Sometimes, it really is just about what works with a unique and special horse, and not the rider's ability. But I'll take your thoughts to mind. Thanks again. I have always enjoyed your channel and your effort to share your personal experience and philosophies.

I guess the question that might be very hard to answer is, "then why ride if you don't have control?". What causes a person to ride a horse that they feel they may need to crush the horse's jaw together at some point? What kind of person chooses that? Those are my questions, hence my resolution that "moral integrity" plays a role in decisions like that. So I guess, we are now agreeing that you do indeed need to use such a weapon then (by definition it is a weapon as it has an ability to inflict pain at an exponential level to force applied) as your moral standards say "no problem with this method as the horse has forced me to do it". It's a perspective thing and has absolutely nothing to do with "all shapes and sizes" unless of course you're referring to the human and their ability to solve problems with particular tools. Blaming the horse for inflicting pain upon it due to a human superficial need to ride is abhorrent. I don't know you, you don't know me. We're not friends or comrades or anything, we're complete strangers and I would never expect anybody to have any investment in what I say or do as I don't with them accordingly in this situation. My arguments are logical and factual. To not take offense or be triggered is perfectly normal and healthy and only frames my words implying I had meant to for you to feel the need to write such a thing. Not my intention. I didn't and still don't care what you do, that's how it works. My comments are for those that are open to higher standards and happen to read that there is a person who watches a video of how a tool puts a human in the mindset that they can crush a horse's mouth closed through minimal effort (or mistake). That person can be totally cool about it and how little I'll stand for such opinions here. You've come to write on the walls of my house for everybody to see, for me to either not respond or not delete your comment is irresponsible on my own part as I take what I do and teach seriously to hopefully make a change in the world of horses. Your mindset starts when you look at your box or wall of bits and actively choose one that can be utterly painful, that's a really low standard. I wish for the horse world to change and make higher and better decisions for the animals in their care that they force things on to. Either way, most change does not happen through direct contact such as this, it comes from the quiet in the background wondering who is right and how the argument is made to have the think critically about both sides. Your mind was made up the moment you started writing, I already knew that.

@@StableHorseTraining In regard to how I come to this conversation, you continue to draw conclusions and make assumptions that seem personal in nature. I hadn't gotten that aspect of your approach from your videos, but understand that you genuinely care greatly for horses, and by extension, I have to assume all sentient beings that exist. Please know that I have not "come to write on the walls of my house for everybody to see." I wrote in hopes that you would provide insight, and I appreciate that you have. As for the audience, it is one of the aspects of RU-vid that I do not focus on a great deal. That I am open to transparently sharing my thoughts with you is not based on the audience at large, but out of my respect for what I've seen your produce on your channel. Had I not had this respect for you, I would not have commented in any way. This is not a forum I routinely share my thoughts, for the very reasons of misinterpretation that seem to be at play here. Although it does lend itself to impulsive criticism, these public comment fields do not lend themselves to terribly critical dialogue. Nonetheless, what seems to be missed here is that the horse in question does like to have a rider, and does like to work with a rider. But it appears that in his past, well before I purchased him and brought him back to something less physically abused and unhealthy, he developed a very numb mouth and face, and has a lot of pull. He continues to require a lot of pressure from the bridle to cue. Absent the more powerful cues from the aggressive spade bit he had previously arrived with, he behaves in an unsafe manner. So, in hopes of moving him to a riding one day in only a halter, the less aggressive mechanical hackamore has been a step in the right direction. More aggressive than some, less than others, and a step in the right direction. He has a personality all of his own, and your responses continue to suggest that all horses are the same. And that I can simply set him to pasture until he gentles enough, if ever, to be a reliable riding partner; a role he genuinely enjoys. You see, this horse loves to go riding and working, he has responded well to the hackamore, and no longer requires the aggressive spade bit. He asks for the time with a rider atop, but simply seems to require the more aggressive cue that the mechanical hackamore can deliver, even in the gentlest of hands. Anyhow, I didn't send my first comments to provoke or argue, and so, I won't do that here. I just wonder if maybe, just maybe, there is something for you to learn from others on this topic also? Or is this channel simply a venue to affirm your own confirmation bias? I have appreciated thinking differently at times, a result I attribute to the time and consideration you have provided through your channel. Although I may have little, in comparison to offer, I do so in good faith. I don't believe either of us control the moral high-ground, but it appears that one of us may believe he does. So, know that my thoughts are now yours to do with as you will. All the best to you. Thanks again for your extraordinary effort with this channel.

Wow... ok, I see what kind of debater you are now. No problem, this is an easy one. I can say unequivocally that there is nothing I can learn from somebody that actively chooses to use leverage pain devices on horses due to their own "confirmation bias" that the horse needs it due to it's own behaviors. There is nothing I can learn from any of what you have written about how to treat a horse and why. I've heard these arguments over and over and over. This argument is everywhere for anybody that uses spade bits, spurs, whips, crops, tie downs, cross ties, chains, curb bits, leverage bits and mechanical hackamores. You're no different than any of them at all. You're not original nor special, you're the norm. It is ALWAYS the horse's fault that a human must use torture to "behave". Hopefully others can see here how the writer has stated it's the horse's fault it must have a leverage pain device on it's face that squeezes it's mouth shut through pain points on the fragile nose and jaw bones. The writer has made no visible effort to do everything possible to avoid this and made a valid argument around that. The main argument is that somebody else made the horse dull and numb in it's mouth. I can guarantee this horse does not smash it's face on walls, bars, doors, rocks, the ground and buckets. If it searches for bits of food and grass, every little hair on it's face feels what is going on. If a fly lands on it, it will carefully brush it's face on it's leg and not go looking for something metal to roughly rub the itch. The "numbness" is a lack of connection or care of the passenger on it's back. It just doesn't matter though. I don't believe I could convince you of anything. I see very clearly how you debate and you're an expert at reframing and distraction and I quite literally can't be bothered to debate with you further as I believe you are disingenuous, mostly to justify your actions, feel better about yourself and what you've done and choose to do. This isn't about you or me, you've made this as personal as I'll allow at this point and will not engage further unless you want a genuine conversation about what is best for the horse and what you're doing isn't. That's a fact, do with it what you will.

I absolutely agree. I guess hackamores are for people who use pain to control their horse(s) instead of doing the necessary groundwork, spending time with and bonding with their horse(s) like Graeme and many viewers on this channel do (that have horses or had at one time.)

As they say, you can lead a horse to water... You're a hunter jumper, of course moving to something you think is less abusive is going to help you feel better about what you do to horses as it is. This video is about education and what you have completely ignored (likely not even watched) is that a mechanical hackamore is more abusive than a bit unless of course you were already using a leverage bit. You definitely shouldn't be preaching about people getting an education while refusing one yourself.

like nothing actually. Just nothing is required to go in a horse's mouth. People who really like bits are the only ones that just say "well, don't pull so hard and the damage will be less, and that's good in my books!".