I really hate the abusive "I suffered unnecessarily so now you have to too". Why not put that energy into making things better for the people who come after you?
Because everyone is overworked and understaffed and nothing ever changes, so you make do, and make others do, not in medicine but 16 years in IT watching the same shit and trying to shield my juniors and myself
That's how parenting works, I guess in most aspects. Be it for the planet, career, or children. You exacerbate it, and the cycle continues. Only if you learn to employ empathy and reflect on what went wrong can you break the cycle and correct the course.
Because who cares about them? The idea of building a better future for generations hence, and investing in things that will pay off for grandchildren, that’s not America any more.
this attitude is so toxic, like i can see it so much in my parents and older generations. why do you have to prolong a vicious cycle when you can make it better? why accept it?? isnt the reason were improving everything is to make things easier for people who follow after us?
"We have to pay more to learn more while also trying to change the culture of medicine from a paternalistic free-for-all to something that actually values the mental and physical health of patients AND doctors." Wow, that was an incredibly powerful line. Well said!
It's true, its common to many professions now. At least burnout from lack of work life balance even among students is now a real conversation topic. Doesnt do anyone any good when your apprentice's brain or their trainer's is mush lol. One thing that really helps is longer minimum pto, eu gets like 4 ot 5 weeks minimum among other stuff to avoid burning out workers...who are less productive and make more mistakes when exhausted. That and the young want to travel, while the older want to see family, so happier workers are less srressed and more competent thanks to less burnout.
Great line but too bad in reality it is not being put into practice. New grads from residency work less and have no ownership of their patients. They are quick to dump them into the ER and don’t take care of them in the hospital when they are sick. They only care about hitting the metrics that were handed down by Medicare/insurance companies than actually taking care of patients. If a complaint can not fit into a 20 minute (and that is a long patient care time slot ) they tell them to make another appointment or go to the emergency department. I see this all the time in the emergency department. I can read their patient care notes and see how messed up it is. I don’t 100% blame them a lot of it has to do with the corporate take over of medicine and the restrictions that they place on the PCPs but for God’s sake at least have some understanding of what the emergency department can and cannot do. The old docs may have been misogynistic and brusk, but the majority of them worked hard and actually cared and took responsibility for their patients. Today, not so much. As my friend who is an NP with years of experience in emergency and primary care says “I worry who is going to take care of me when I retire.”
@@DGlaucomflecken Oh heck yeah! I'm waiting for the director's cut, though because I don't want to miss any of the story as it was intended to be... Ingested.
The residency workload is so clearly designed by someone who assumes everyone is able-bodied, rich, and has a full-time long-suffering stay-at-home partner taking care of literally anything outside of work ... and they're also still doing coke in the lounge It is insane
I don’t think it’s designed that way at all. Being an expert in your field is hard. Med school just gets you prepared to start learning whatever speciality you’re going into. You can never see it all, or do it all. Once you’re out of residency, there’s another type of learning. How to treat people so they want to come back to you, how to bill, code, schedule so that you and your staff can survive. Or, if you’re an employed physician, how to legally, legitimately generate RVU’s so that your corporate CEO can get their bonus( believe me in that). Medicine is hard. It was hard then, and it’s hard now. Residency just prepares you to learn how to take care of people.
@@johncrane1894 the point in the original comment was the assumption made. Medicine today still acts as though all doctors are as they were centuries ago, a man from a financially comfortable background, with a wife and/or staff. The workload is such that it’s unreasonable to expect someone to do it AND the ‘adulting’ tasks of cooking, cleaning, paying bills, getting taxes together, caring for the kids if there are any, etc. If I am able to retire early-ish, and live in an area with a medical school or teaching hospital, I may very well offer myself as a ‘volunteer mom’.
I’m REALLY GLAD that someone finally becomes brave enough to tell the previous generation that being the current med student is not easier and put an end to the pointless comparison between their experience and current med student experience…
People do this all the time, about things other than med school too! It makes me so fucking angry. I'm studying to be a primary school teacher and added pedagogical sciences so I can balance academics with praxis. People say it's easier to study now because you don't need to go to a library to find books or whatever. My workload is 35 hours of home studying a week, adding writing papers and working, then there's the work we do at school which is around 10 added hours, and they expect us to spend extra time tutoring others! And that's just my pedagogical sciences segment, don't get me started on how busy I am during the blocks of the year where I'm working with kindergarteners from 8 am to 6 pm Monday and Tuesday, then being at university at those same times the rest of the work week. I'm constantly exhausted, and people act like we younger people have it easy. Or they'll say that primary and secondary used to be harder, which is provably not true. Kids learn more than triple the amount they had to fifty years ago, in the same amount of time. I have such respect for kids in school, it's damn harder than it used to be.
I would actually say is hardest. The amount of things we have to study during the course is significantly larger than maybe a decade ago. We need to absorb and assimilate much more knowledge in less time than before.
It’s the same with veterinary medicine. Average debt is anywhere from $150K-$300K and all old vets want to do is complain about how much harder their rotation was. Like girl, we do THE SAME HARD JOB. Chill out.
@@bettievw nah the standards for primary school have dropped massively. It’s apparent worldwide. You can easily cut the time from junior kindergarten to grade 8 in half while learning the same stuff due to how horrible the school system is
“Listen, back in MY day, we had to walk through three feet of snow up a hill both ways.” (See? It’ll never stop. We will always be compared to the previous generation for the STUPIDEST stuff. Just nod and smile.)
I remember wanting to do this to one of my professors that complained that med students today didn’t spend nearly as much time studying anatomy as he did back in his day. I wanted to corner him and say “ok, fair enough. How much time did you spend studying genetics? How about MRIs? How about immunology? ACE inhibitors? Prions? Cytokines? Monoclonal antibody treatments? Imaging studies using radioactive isotopes? You didn’t study ANY of those things? Because they didnt exist back then? Gosh, what did you do with all your free time?”
screw anatomy dont get me wrong i love it, and i enjoyed reading essential clinical anatomy by Dr. Moore. but we study like a 100 things and only 10 are relevant clinically, the rest and all the small details are almost always useless that time spent memorizing those small things could be spent learning something actually useful to patients
You do realize they do still had to learn that, right ? Because if they don't, how can they properly ask/guide/teach/correct you to do something related. The big difference is that there wasn't an expert there to teach them all of that in their free time, but to make time in their already tightened agenda to look a way to learn that.
For those who don't know what the "lines of coke" is referring to, look up William Halstead, one of the founders of Johns Hopkins who basically established the toxic and abusive work culture of the surgeons to this day.
Bumps of coke were for real at my hospital in the 80s. Bumps before shift, Bumps afterwards. Best Bumps from pharmacy and the night house officers. I don't know what monster dealers they did business with. So...I didn't know "the lines of coke" actually referred to something. LMAO. It was just SAP during late 1970s to about early 1990s. Then you hit the 7 am bar for screw drivers and omelets. How are we alive?😆
I never heard if William Halstead of his infamous Johns Hopkins culture of maltreatment to doctors. Though, I often experience the PTSD they dump and abuse on nurses everywhere and everyday.
This video doesn’t show the part 2 where the surgeon sends a letter to their training supervisor recommending that these med students repeat a year due to gross incompetence that have endangered patient lives and turning their lives pure hell out of nothing but pure malice. I say this as a surgeon who has had to work with surgeons like that.
A bunch of us students at my school had this EXACT convo amongst ourselves the other day. We have entire classes that didn’t exist when our professors were in school…
And who do you think made possible those new classes for you to don't have to discover the black thread ? leprechauns maybe ? Do you know how expensive is to learn something that is not teached in school ? I would have loved to have 3 times more the information we were taught and specially to have someone expert to ask. After college that kind of information is really expensive (and hard) to get, because after college you are no longer a student, you are the competition. Medicine have it a lot easier in this aspect, other careers don't.
After all that clap back, the med students still ask if there is anything they can do for him 🥺 Also, low key wanna see them take down neurosurgery next
That’s because he’s the MED STUDENT. No matter how much he works compared to how much his attending may have worked, he’s still the Med student and he/she should always show respect to the attending. The attending should not be a jerk, and some still are, I get it, but that attending is still responsible fouler the Med student, and the Med students grade. I try to be as kind, helpful, and knowledgeable to my Med students/residents, and although this is funny, if one of my Med students acted that way to me, he or she would be off my service in a heartbeat.
This is the exact argument I have with my parents all the time 😂 They graduated 30 years ago and always say that we now have nothing to complain about. Yeah, dad, but you don't own 3 years of your life to some understaffed country hospital that will grab your butt after graduation, since they agreed to pay for your studies. And no, mom, I can't put an IV because I haven't seen any patients for 2 years now and all of my nurse training was supposed to be during those years. Also patients don't trust us to do anything anyway and due to the new policies they have the right to send us away even during examination. Also, as a pediatrics student I have 6/7 more subjects that you did in medschool, guys. Why don't people understand that it never is and never will be easy 🤦♀️
@@eagillum medical universities work different in Russia. We study for 6 years in the department we choose (pediatrics or general medicine) and in 4th year we can pass an exam to get a nurse certificate. After uni general medicine students will be general physicians (or family doctors, idk what it's called in English) and pediatrics students will be pediatricians
@@blank_line I know no one asked, but in Latvia to be familiy doc you need to go 3 years in residency for that. After finishing 6 years of medicine studies you become trainee (Стажер). Then you specialise in residency another 3-6 years depending specialisation.
This quickly went from funny “poor Bill” to a surprisingly powerful statement on the state and philosophy of a large part of medical education… wow. And thank you!
Am I crazy for thinking that if I'm seeing a doctor for my HEALTH and more or less putting my life in someone else's hands... they should be healthy (mentally and physically)and well rested??
You're not, just that those who employ us and our dick superiors don't feel the same. So no life, no food and no sleep is what takes care of the public to tell them to have all of that
I don't know many PATIENTS happy to hear about things like 24h on-calls, 16 hour regular shifts, 12 days straight of work. The only people I see defending it are the med staff stuck in "That's how it works!" mode. Ratios! Hour restrictions! Actual functional labor laws!
This is so completely true. I was 12 when my mom started med school, and once she’d started, it was as if she didn’t exist anymore, Especially bc she had to commute an hour each way to school bc we couldn’t afford to live in the city. And then when residency came she moved out of state all together, I hardly ever heard from her, and when I did, she was Always upset/severely stressed. She used to work 120 a week, with call every 4th day, which was completely going over hour restrictions, but everyone was too scared to say anything, bc the one resident who did speak up, was viciously bullied by the program, and eventually was forced to quit all together. She’s been an attending for over 10 years now, and while things have improved for med students and residents, its still really intense, and there’s a reason that only certain people are cut out for this job. No way in hell am I doing it.
The same applies to literally every job. I constantly have to explain this to people who complain about how easy it was to find work when they were a college graduate.
Somehow i have the Feeling those Med Students will use the "real thick" Books in the dark corner of the Hospital Parking Lot once the doc gets out. Blunt heavy Objects ....
"Now, is there anything else we can do for you"...spoken like a true 5/5 med student LOL. Nicely done. This video hit a lot of emotions and your comedy is so real it sometimes makes me tear up. But it really boosts morale.
This phenomenon can be applied to most fields. Old boomers who complains about kids this days being too weak, while the truth is they have fucked up the system for people at the back. It's just a breathe of fresh air to see an older generation not going :"back in my day"
This was amazing. The work hour restrictions still being insane hours regardless, and often I hear that people just go over anyway with no consequences for the person who made them? Big deterrent from medical school. Big
I became a corporate lawyer instead of trying to go into medicine in part because the hours doctors do seem crazy. At least we get to sleep a few hours a night. I've seen other lawyers throw up and pass out from working 24 hours straight, I can't imagine the 48+ hour on call shifts some doctors do
I document the hours I'm supposed to be there. I work the hours it takes to get the work done. Usually they match up. Sometimes they don't and your 2 hours of post call documentation time turns into 4 hours of post call documentation time because as it turns out after working for 24 hours straight your brain struggles to write decent notes. The rules allow for 24 hours of patient contact followed by 3 hours of time for documentation. Going over that by am hour probably isn't the worst thing that ever happened but being at work for 28 hours straight sucks no matter how you slice it.
It’s not if you really want to be a doctor. Most people that go into medicine do it because they. Any think of doing anything else. I’m 60 and since I was in 2nd grade all I ever wanted was to be a surgeon. I’ve been practicing for 27 years, and although, I can’t stand corporate medicine, I still love to operate.
Had this conversation with my dad and he does agree with me. Even his colleagues who went to the same med school as him and are now teaching medicine. What really had us draw an understanding was how funny it was that during his time, HIV was barely a page in his books but in mine, it’s being analyzed thoroughly and added as a condition that can alter the presentation of other diseases like with pregnancy.
The "line of coke" is 100% why I laugh at people who say "Oh you are smart, why not be a psychiatrist instead?" Like yeah, I am smart....and people need help from lots of types of medical professionals. I just don't want to go into crippling debt in the process and then have a very rough work environment. Maybe I look forward to working into my later years because my job won't kill me. Mad respect to any person who looks at that culture and wants to take that head on for society. I'll do my part to make your job easier by coming in with clear questions, reading what I can ahead of time and following the plan we make.
@@fairylandful I'm aiming for a career in clinical psychology, both on the analysis side, but also seeing patients. So I consider that a medical career, more akin to like a PT or dietician or genetic counselor: someone which an advanced degree who focuses more on lifestyle and personal actions within a specific, clinical scope.
I went to a medical biology camp in the summer after 10th grade and immediately realized I had no desire to ever be a doctor. They kill themselves to do this shit, you right
Thank so much for posting these. They mean a lot to me. I’m a new grad nurse but your videos resonate with me on a deep level. The medical field in general is so terrible to all healthcare workers. All the time I’m being asked to do more with less and it’s so frustrating. No one wants to fund anything so if something needs to be done and everyone else is too busy, it usually falls on the nurses shoulders. We need more staff and to reduce patient to healthcare workers ratios.
Welcome to the grinder. As an ER nurse of six years and a (military) medic of fourteen more, I promise it gets easier... mostly because you learn to tolerate more and handle more, but it DOES get better. Make sure to manage your work life balance. Your scrubs aren't your skin, and as rewarding as our profession is, you can't take care of others if you don't take care of yourself. Also, petition your legislators for ratios. I moved to California from a non-ratio state and my life improved immensely, as did the care I provide.
Blame corporate medicine on that. It didn’t used to be like that. When docs could afford to hang their own shingle they were the customers of the hospital, and the patients were the currency. Sounds harsh, but I don’t mean it that way. The hospitals would bend over backwards to get docs to practice at their hospital, including keeping, and paying good nurses that worked well with the docs. It made it way better for the nurses, docs, and especially the patients. Now we can’t afford to be in a private practice, and therefore have no power. “Everyone’s replaceable”. That’s the corporate attitude.
I love the fact that you're hilarious but also deeply contemplative about what's wrong in the system today and what needs to change. Hearing you put this stuff into words is so validating too!
I’ve never seen one of these Speaking-The-Truth type videos that has left me in jaw-dropped awe. At most I’ve had a “Louder for the people in the back!” or “Heck yeah! Speak it sib!” feeling. but this one hit me in a way that just left me saying “...Holy shit...” and stunned for a bit. I really appreciate someone validating the different experiences of the younger generation that make things harder while they seemingly appear easier and addressing the unhealthy mentality of the older generation towards the younger members learning from them.
Lol, that's great! I was just telling a classmate the other day that our 70+ year old pharmacology professor never had to learn so many drugs at once...hint: most were not even invented yet!
You’re correct, however, you’re 70 year old professor didn’t have computers, apps, video taped lectures, all the testing materials either. He/she had the notes taken at lectures and the textbook…maybe a class syllabus. Doesn’t mean at all that what you are going through is t just as hard, but it was hard then too
@@johncrane1894 If anything that simplifies things, if you aren't constantly dealing with the potentiality that you have missed information from an external reference source everyone is using. Textbook and lecture...so much simpler.
This is brilliant! So many seniors feel that just because med school and residency was hard fir them, it should be hard for everyone else such that they bully their juniors... I really hope this mind set changes
Just had this conversation last week. Worked a crazy week 120 hour week with 3 continuous 30 hour shifts. Told him I was quite exhausted from last week. He told me he was on call every 2 days for 5 years straight and no vacations. Makes it to hard to complain and try to change the system, when is the one evaluating me. The man even said we were a weak generation of students who aren't used to anything. Really hard not to lose my temper that moment
I know a few people in health care who had their college debt eliminated by the care act. And now the most recent one is supposed to have a wider range to eliminate student debt for employees who work for the public like teachers nurses and even Drs.
My professors who learned veterinary medicine 30 years ago: this is easy! Enjoy your life in college! Life in college: studying every day and assignments every day. Literally just studying and making sure you survive. half the subjects we study didnt even exist in their curriculum lol
OMG THANK YOU. This. This. So accurate, so wholesome (not a medical doctor, I'm a young vet but we get the same bullshit argument "you kids have it so easy, we worked so much harder than you do !" from some older veterinarians who think we suck because, yes, we perform more tests than them and don't pretend to treat everything with corticosteroids and antibiotics... People need to stop cherishing and taking pride in their own pain and crazy hours ! Living the "hard life" makes you more likely to become an insensitive jerk with pour patients and demotivat you , stop boasting about your sleepless stressy life, you guys ! )
I have to disagree. I am one of those old guys, and I and my colleagues always treat our Med students, residents, nurses, and scrub techs with respect and, I hope kindness, I know I try to. What we went through was different, doesn’t make it better, doesn’t make it worse, but it’s what we went through. Just like y’all don’t like us older docs telling you it was harder than what you are going through, we don’t like you telling us what you’re going through is harder. It’s hard, it just is, then and now, but guess what, that’s Med school, and when you’re done, you’re a doctor…I still feel that’s something to be proud of. I do have to say, even since the hour restrictions, I still see a lot of the same attitudes from chief residents to interns and Med students……which kind of negates the “old docs are always jerks” argument.
@@johncrane1894 I definitely wouldn't generalize, don't worry! From my personal experience in private practice (it was different and much worse in the academic setting), young/middle-aged vets were oftentimes the worst and the kindest docs I've worked with are the older ones, who tend to be more relaxed and patient in stressful situations, they taught me a lot but were always humble. I'm sorry I sounded so angry, I was referring to what my peers had gone through, for the most part, and I had mostly to put up with the high-pressure, life-sucking attitude, the "we work, don't eat, and shouldn't even sleep" type, from middle-aged and even young docs... But I think this culture comes from somewhere, it's what some of us are taught and expected to become, and I'm sad young folks are still clinging to this culture, for the sake of "being like their professors and mentors". But it's changing, I hope.
Sorry, hit the wrong button. I was trying to say😏 that medicine is tough, and vet medicine is really tough. There is so much division in this country, you’d think doctors would see eye to eye. They don’t always, but I really don’t think it should create strife…that’s the last thing we need. Sounds like you have a great attitude and I wish you the absolute best.
@@johncrane1894 appreciate your input here. If all more senior docs had your attitude, medicine would be in a better place! One of the best residents who ever rotated in my lab liked to say ‘there’s no room for ego in medicine’. She was right. Learn from your attending, learn from that ER tech who gets the blood draws no one else can, learn from that social worker who you kinda suspect knows where the bodies are buried from how she’s able to get things done for patients.
As a 52 year old Family Practice physician who has a son in his third year of medical school, I catch myself trying to tell him how much harder I had it. I literally had one week vacation my third and fourth year of medical school combined, and they get weeks off to prep for boards (which didn’t seem to be as big of a deal back the-just pass them). It does seem more competitive now to get in and the workload has always been incredibly intense. I just think the older doctors are jealous that we felt unnecessarily abused at times with work hours and an attitude that the weak were being weeded out, and now there is a movement to watch out after people so they don’t burn out. I’m glad that the newer generation of doctors will watch out for each other. Just be understanding when us “boomers” feel the need to vent and complain a bit. You can shake your head and feign sympathy for all that we overcame, walking uphill both ways to anatomy lab.
Spot on. And honestly, that was a respectful way to end it, I was so afraid it was going to end with shaming the supervising/experienced doc, which will not get you anywhere. Well done. Stand your ground, but don’t stoop to insults.
Wow literally ALL of this I've wanted to say but can't bc med students are the bottom of the medical barrel and we'd get absolutely wrecked on evaluations if we said anything like this, so we just have to sit there and nod when the old guard attendings talk about how "this generation has it easy" 😤
It’s like that in the medical field. I’m a nurse and I had a charge nurse tell me they had it harder. We take care of patients who are way sicker and need more procedures done in 12 hours.
I’ve heard docs in the older generation literally say that residents shouldn’t take any sick days because that’ll mean less is learned and careers will suffer. Never mind that the hours residents used to do also were damaging to their physical and mental health, plus retaining information when constantly exhausted is way worse than if you actually get sleep. It goes back to the idea that “I had to suffer, so you should too” as opposed to “things were messed up and I don’t want others to suffer like I did.”
YES. All of this. Undergraduate degree, med school (2021 grad) and an MBA came to over $350K. The ever-growing body of knowledge hits, too. One of my med school professors, when asked what material we needed to know, would look incredulously at students and say, "Know everything forever. " You have no idea how weighty this responsibility is until you enter clinical rotations and residency. KNOW. EVERYTHING. FOREVER. Being a physician is not for the faint of heart.
wooowwww i don’t think anyone cud have put it all together better than this👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 .. i always keep hearing from my consultants how hard it was for them .. n i never had a good answer for it .. now i have one ☝🏻 thank u 😊
My husband and son are doctors and they have shared your RU-vid videos with me. They are absolutely brilliant and hilarious! Keep it up, we all need a good laugh.
Out of all of your VERY funny content, I am delighted with The Mafia! And thank you for the gift of your humor when, as we now know, "this shit is hard".
looking back at my training, had no regrets about schedule, call, etc. We learned to think on our own and gained unimaginable experience. All well and good for curtailed schedules but when one gains something, there is an inevitable loss. Great vid. thank you
This video conveys a very powerful message. The amount of information a med student has to absorb these days is definitely more than what it used to be in the past. The fact is, that amount of information is increasing every year. For instance, U World question bank, the standard tool US med students use for board prep, is adding more questions every year. For Step 2 CK, the question just exceeded 4000 questions. Yes, 4000. This number will only continue to go up every year as new knowledge is discovered and management protocols change. This will only get more challenging and I feel already sorry for future med students. Fortunately, many attendings are aware of this and they try to give med students as much study time as possible. I am truly thankful for them and I would do the same when I become an attending.
It was harder and much difficult in our days....used to hear it every single morning from our assistants. Good video and great effort for transmitting facts in a funny way
Can one schedule out the Med Student Mafia? I would like to put in a request for them to defend Teachers against Admin and Parents next if possible please. I'm sure there are many, MANY other fields that could use the Med Student Mafia for a solid verbal takedown like that.
Fuck teachers. Half of them are incompetent morons that also spread ideological bullshit. Maybe 10% might be awesome. The rest are merely Ok. Until all the shit ones get fired and their unions stop this madness they have no sympathy from me.
Oh please. Teachers have nowhere NEAR as tough a job as med students/doctors. If a doctor told someone that they were being idiotic for thinking vaccines cause autism or that body positivity isn't going to prevent diabetes or hypertension, they'd be sued AND fired/suspended. Meanwhile incompetent teachers are protected by unions and give the good and dedicated ones (mostly the math and science teachers) a bad name. A bunch of Lesbian Dance Theory majors lining up kids according to skin colour and asking them to apologize to the person next to them and getting rightly questioned for it is NOT the same as being called lazy and incompetent after an 80 hour week and studying for the next exam on the side.
I showed a friend some Doc Glauc awhile back-he’s non medical- and his reply was, “Oh yeah I know him, that guy is really popular, with EVERBODY.” 😄👍👍👍👍
As a residency APD, thank you so much for making this video. Our residents have it way different than I did when in training. The demands of the job have quite changed as well.
