How someone that doesn’t know what they are doing can make things so bad. Just because it can bolt together doesn’t mean it will work. A cracked crank and a ruined block
Anyone with a set of wrenches can do it. However, doing it right is the difference in skill (and knowledge) levels between a little league baseball player and a MLB all star.
@@admranger Taking it apart is the easy part. Assembling, diagnosing, machining, solving, and putting it back together is anti-easy. Many mechanics can not do it if their life depended on it.
Actually it takes a lot of common sense. A good engine builder knows to come in out of the rain (like these guys). A bad engine builder drinks beer in the rain. Who do you want putting your motor together? I built a few when I was younger. I didn't know what I was doing but I did torque everything to spec and I checked the Crank rotation for smoothness and rotated the engine after every piston/rod install. I know that is not a good test and I should have done a squash test on the bearings. But at 18 and your just refreshing an old motor to increase performance and stop some oil leaks you don't worry about fine details. Not to mention 60's and 70's motors were very forgiving as long as you didn't do anything stupid. Like complete assembly and starting the engine without checking the rotation for smoothness and double checking the Mechanical timing of the engine. I never had a failure on my 1962 Ford 170ci, my 1961 235ci Blue Flame Chevy or my 1972 350ci Chevy. I would hate to work on these over priced, overrated junk engines. I would rather fix Trash Compactors!
I spent most of my life in the repair industry, including 38 years as a shop owner. I wish I could have found a machine half as good as his. Dave and his men are amazing.
@@PeterHernandez-lg2eh I grew up in CT; in a town named after a certain tick-borne disease. Dad moved us TF out of there after starting his own business and the need to get out from the oppressive taxes.
Waiting for egg the follow up video(s) is like waiting for your favorite movie to come out on Blu-ray. I love your channel Dave. Your team is outstanding
When I was in my early 20’s, I was running an excavator building wood roads pretty far back in the bush and we lost an injection pump on the machine…an old school Cat mechanic came out to see what went wrong and he figured it was from fuel contamination…we fixed that problem and I figured he would take the injection pump off and take it back to the shop and swap it with a new one but he decided to rebuild it sitting on the machine!…I asked him “is that wise”… he said he did it all the time so here we were in the bush with mud and grease all around us, building this pump on a Saturday morning and it was quite intimidating to me and I asked him how he could handle the stress of pulling such intricate stuff apart like this in less than ideal conditions and he stopped what he was doing and looked me in the eyes and said “people are way more complicated than this pump and at the end of the day it’s just nuts and bolts so don’t stress over it”…nuts and bolts indeed!!
Very true. The best advice i ever got when i started machining 30 years ago was " dont think so much." Dont over-think things. Walk away from a difficult job. Even for 10 minutes. Clear your head. Have a smoke. And come back refreshed.
It looks like the shop is not doing much repair jobs, just disassembly of failed motors and the boss then telling the costumers a long story on the phone why it is impossible to repair the shitty motor on the luxary car they have purchased.
As a lifetime retired mechanic here in Reno I am so appreciative of you taking the time to document the disasters that are apparently often brought to you for help! I'm sure you could make much more money by just focusing on what you all do best rather than diverting time and energy on documenting your efforts to amaze all us lesser wrenches. Thanks for sharing your intelligence with us!
@tomb9566 a 2014 lexus? You are a delusional fan boy. Lexus has a good resale value based on reliability but c63's have been increasing in value my friend
This is the kind of shop a guy DREAMS of working at. 20 years I've been a BMW technician and never before have I seen a shop run the way that every tech WISHES theirs was. You guys deserve all the respect and prosperity in the world. If I weren't up in northern Canada with a young family, I might just come and fix BMW's for ya for the rest of my life ;)
@@DavesAutoCenterCenterville Hope you see this Dave... So wholesome seeing a father and son like that... The old man passing down the passion, the skills and the wisdom. The young buck honouring all the work Dad's done and proving he's worthy of respecting the legacy long into the future. Gets me a little emotional tbh. I can see why he's the apple of your eye Dave, I bet you ran a tight ship at home, just as you do at the shop there. But as my grandpa used to always tell me "the quality of a man's children say a lot about the quality of the man." And my father was one hell of a quality man. I sure do miss my Dad, I hope to be half the man he was. But just take a look at Hunter Biden vs Don jr. and the young Barron Trump for an example 😉 Had to chuck that in, just poking fun folks. I'm an Aussie and don't care about that. At all. Jokes aside, although I don't have any sons, only my daughter, (who's a very impressive young lady), I do have a lot to do with young lads in my community through my volunteer work and there's a sorely lacking culture of respect going both ways and just a little bit of encouragement can take a young man a long, long way. Worth thinking about folks. Worth thinking about.
Not a flat plane crank, still a traditional cross plane design. The only Mercedes V8 I know of with a flat plane started in the newer AMG GT R Black Series.
Yup, from what I can see, the crank has rod journals that are 90 degrees separated from each other, not 180. Certainly not a SBC 350, still not a flat plane crank. Good video still.
I was thinking the same thing but it looks like two rods go onto the same rod journal. Most V8 they are all offset to their own degree to get the firing order timed evenly between all 8 cylinders. This is probably easier to make like this and stronger than traditional V8. I was thinking a flat plane crank in a v8 would look like a 4 cylinder crankshaft basically making your v8 like two 4 cylinders tied together.
I've seen this failure before. It isn't a forging defect, it's an INGOT defect. When the ingot cools, the top end of the ingot shrinks and there is a giant divot that forms. When the ingot is reduced in size by hammering it is customary to first cut part of the ingot off where the divot is. Any remaining part of the divot is hammered shut by the initial forging but sometimes the two sides don't weld themselves back together and you get what I believe are called "cold shuts". As the ingot is reduced in size more and more until it is turned into a billet, the cold shut will be there waiting right in the middle of the billet. It is pretty rare, but it can happen. I saw this happen on a giant steel flex disk produced by Leningrad Metal Works. It caused some panic as it was on a 50+ year old machine and we had to figure out it this was going to happen to all the other flex disks (24) or if it was a singularity.
OK, if I understand well; and when the cranck is scrapped, I could saw it through. Polish the ends in the lab. See how deep the cracks are...probably 1 - 2 mm ? If it is a manufacturing defect MB should provide a new cranckshaft.
@@louisvanrijn3964 You're not understanding op. The crank metal was effectively folded over a sunken part of the billet. That hole is within the metal still as the opposing sides never forge welded themselves together.
@@jackking5567 We have different ideas on how it occurred, but I think we agree that the flaw was in the piece of metal the crank was forged from. I have difficulty blaming MB for this failure, if the crack was present but hadn't reached the surface yet, it would have passed Magnaflux.
I worked with my Father for 30 years. It's pretty good for the kids too; so very lucky. He would come into the office many years after he quit doing productive work because he just like being there.
Most men only dream of this kind of relationship with his son. When Dave's time comes he will go in peace. My father had this opportunity x3 and never took it serious. Took me decades to forgive him for squandering the chance of a lifetime. Ultimately he couldn't see his way to hand over the reins. We were in the perfect place at the right time to build a empire. Ironically dad was a master with client relations. RIP pop.
No MB dealer I know of would get involved with rebuilding an engine that required regrinding/rebalancing a crank. I saw a couple of AMG engines with flaws in the cylinder and oil consumption problems. I saw a V12 cut in half when it ingested water and hydro-locked, busted a rod! AMG V12=$100,000!
M156 is the first engine designed by AMG. They have known quirks but have become a legend at the same time. I have one in my 2009 E63 with 59k. Runs like a top. Good luck with the project and thanks for sharing.
I like watching father and son working together. Reminds me of my son and I working on cars. There's really no better mechanic team as a father and son. They both think alike and what one might miss, the other one will see it. Love it!!
@@OcRefrigerationNot after the accident in which Dave said something hit the engine. Now, of course there’s no way to prove either way if that cause the crack or not but Mercedes ain’t gonna cover didley squat under warranty after someone opened the engine up already. They ruined any chance of anything being covered by the folks in Stuttgart.
Best damned automotive shop/channel on RU-vid, bar none. Love everything yall'r doing over there; can't wait to see more. Love that you're making more longer form content as well
Best? LMAO kid, guess you've never heard of "M539 restorations". This channel is nothing special. Especially when "mechanics" don't know difference between cross plane and flat plane crank😂😂😂
@@kaseyc5078 not sure what being smart have to do with complexity. Instead of taking a day to rebuild a small block chevy, it will take days to rebuild an AMG motor.
@@kaseyc5078 Techs are getting smarter, A good Tech and i mean a Good Tech is on the sub par as a I.T specialist yet paid so much less. You have to have knowledge of Network,dianostic and mechnical knowledge. No other insdustry has so much depth. And if they do. Its specialised into one subject. For example I.T only works on computers and Plumbers work on plumbing.
Never knew you were on youtube, long time follower on the gram. Love your honesty. Good honest customer service is becoming a lost art. Keep up the good work!!
Wow… What a mess!! Dave I have no doubt your team will make it right whatever that decision ends up being! This is a fantastic video!! It shows what kind of problems there can be in your profession and I for one can appreciate your Expertise. Thank you for sharing!! Please do a follow up video on this one for us kind Sir! 😊
When he said they have 3 used motors but they're all junk made me laugh also.So none of those blocks are any good? And a screwed forged crank from day one? lol Sounds like owning a Mercedes shop would be as lucrative as it would be a headache. The guy on the phone at that shop definitely sounds like he knows his stuff. I really like the collaboration/brainstorming you guys are doing together - two knowledgeable professionals working to solve a problem. That's the kind of group I'd like to be involved with.
When you look at Mercedes and Lamborghini. Both of these companies have so much focus on the motor that everything else is built like shit and even then the motors are usually terribly designed for long term but designed for short term/high maintenance.
This will probably make u laugh even more. The engine in questiona here, Mercedes m156 was actually one of the more reliable performance cars they made especially the 12-14 models. Reliable by "Mercedes" standards
You need to say that in front of your son. Dont be afraid to express your thoughts feelings admonitions respect prides any of that when dealing with your son. He needs deserves & desires to know those things. You guys are awesome im so glad I fell in this rabbit hole and found your channel. Awesome
I'm amazed that you would see something like this from an AMG dealer. They knew it wouldn't work. My old man was a Mercedes mechanic. And people's were happy to pay for the proper repair the first time.
We don't know the whole story on this repair. Shady things can happen in any dealership regardless of the name on the building. Car owner could have been an asshole bugging the shop to finish his car quickly for all we know.
I love the dedication this shop uses. Dave could throw up his hands tell them you need a new engine. Dave takes it on as a challenge but also keeping the owner in mind by trying to keep cost down! You guys are tops the best.
How I come across this channel I don’t know this is the first video I have watched, and I’m absolutely amazed. The amount of knowledge you your son and your team have. Your attention to detail is unreal unbelievable definitely go beyond 🧐 or are you just what a car mechanic should be can’t wait for the next one ❤
This episode realy show cases how day to day life at daves works I love the customer phone calls and how dave go into detail explaining things what a great guy 😊
Amazing work guys. Also amazing is how compelling this puzzle is and that it kept my attention and I watched the whole video without interruption. Kudos for this!
I love the thought process in these vids, Dave. Someone with your experience remaining so curious and humble is cool to watch doing their thing. Thanks!
@@chash7335 Crossplane is UP-DOWN-DOWN-UP , or 180 degrees out no matter if its a i4 or v8. Flatplane are UP-LEFT-DOWN-RIGHT(just for example), or 90 degrees of seperation.
Amazing commitment to customer service - exploring all practical options while being mindful of cost as though it were their own. No wonder people ship vehicles to Dave's shop from all over the country. Amazing customer care.
Happy Friday to Dave and his crew! Just wanted to express my admiration for all of you. I’m a 23 year old working at a ford fleet center on the maintenance rack with goals of hoping to be as much of a wizard as Dave or some of the other brilliant techs I’ve worked with since starting trade school in 2019. It’s intimidating to me I’ll admit, but even more than that I find cars and trucks and all that makes them work incredibly fascinating. I hope one day I can find a shop like Daves(especially if it has the scenery as pretty Utah) and become a valued trusted member of an amazing team trying to do right by the customers and the business.
This shop doesn’t need to be “tackling” this engine. They are in over their heads. He can’t even tell the difference between a flat plane crank vs cross plane crank.
@@ghostwrench2292you’re certainly entitled to your opinion. This is America. But I wouldn’t trust my engine rebuild to someone that does not know the difference in fundamental engine designs. Maybe he is the world’s greatest mechanic. But I’m not gonna find out. But that’s just my opinion.
So good to see you are proud of your son and give him all the credit for his abilities. My dad was an old school mechanic too with 5 workshops around Melbourne Australia and he taught me nothing and worst of all he gives me no credit for anything. I'm hopeless in his eyes. Over the years I had to teach myself how to do simple stuff like change the brakes on my car. 😔
Now this is my kinda content!! even if its a Mercedes i love to see engine breakdowns and assembly! Sucks to see someones engine need this kind of work from bad work done, but Dave and the guys will make it right!!! Let me know if you guys need an experienced CNC Machinist, id love to join the team!
Thank you for asking! If you are interested in moving to Utah possibly, send us a résumé at admin@davesautoutah.com. Appreciate you watching our channel.
@@0num4 To be honest I'm working on the logistics of moving out to Utah right now! Me and the wife recently moved down to the lower 48 from Alaska, and have been visiting/staying with family in Florida for about a year while we get things lined up on where want to settle down. Once I know we can do it comfortably, I'm sending it in! 👍👍
Nah, man. That engine is a ridiculous lump of unnecessary over-engineering. Let's not lose sight of fact it has a defective crankshaft from the factory, and the other mercedes shop checked THREE used engines to use as replacements - and all were "junk". I learned long ago to stay away from the German stuff. Yes, it's AWESOME when it's right - but keeping it right is painful AF.
its really not that bad at all if you do it right the first time.....and do it yourself to save money. The engine is very reliable. Almost 200k miles on mine daily driven for 5 years straight@@GroovesAndLands
2 decent mechanics to watch at long last. Thank God still some good mechanics out there. You have done an excellent job with your son as well. Keep posting guys. Best I have seen on utube.
Sounds like the insurance company cheaped out or the tech halfazzed it. Just as likely the insurance co. said fix it cheap. They got what they paid for. If the tech did this, I hope he got his azz bounced out of there !!!
Honestly if I were this guy I’d start talking to a lawyer, because someone fucked up and it sounded like it wasn’t him. Insurance are the ones who should be paying Dave not this guy out of pocket.
I was a partner in an equipment repair shop and had an in house machine shop for 30 years with an awesome machinist. We would take on pretty challenging jobs sometimes and most of them were successful. Occasionally there were those that we should have baled on. This AMG engine with the dollars involved and the previous repairs attempted would really make me double think about trying to correct this. Good Luck!!
@@labourlawact7826 Good 1...hahaha Love that German..."Over-Engineering." Think they'd learn their lesson after the legendary Panther/Tiger Tank overlapping road wheel fiasco but....No. 'fukengruven"
It's like being truthful with your doctor. Tell the mechanic the truth up front. When we find you telling lies you immediately go into the "never service again" category.
The amount of detail is technical information here is so amazing! I'm sold by you guys. If only the mechanics here in Singapore were half as good as you guys... I go to them with problems on my car, and most of the time they just don't wanna touch it! :(
M156 is an absolute BEAST so dont be too unkind....I have over 330k MILES on my M156 and it pulls just as hard as the day i bought it!!!! Granted-ive replaced the headbolts(engine in-one at a time for $800 INCLUDING buying the tools vs engine out at the indy shop for $13k!), ive had to pull the intake and replace the throttle body plate due to internal corrosion, replaced the cam adjuster backing plates (thank GOD for 63Motorsports!!!), alternator x1, power steering pump x1 and radiator x2....but all in all this M156/722.9 combo is about as robust and durabe as a Detroit!!! The main gripe i have had for the last 4yrs is that it is a damn 2pc block and i have that dreaded leak on the parting line that can ONLY be fixed by pulling the engine and removing the entire bottom end, just to repair a simple oil leak, are you kidding me, AMG kiss my ass for that!!!! great channel, great info, great shop....keep it up and keep the content rolling!!!
I meen a mechanic for over 25 years and I have meet some really good tech but, DAVE is just a different breed. Love the Show and hope one day I can meet you all.
I found this very interesting. You are very thorough and professional. Well done to find it's faults. Huge job that many would not be brave enough to have started.
@brucedale4465 How so? One of the best and most reliable AMG engines made, there are people with up to 200k miles in theirs. The crack in this one is some kind of freak accident. But look at the size of that crank and it's the same size as the cranks from heavy duty desiels sitting in Dave's shop. I bet you that thing would have ran with the crack in it .
@@brucedale4465 I own a 100K mile M156. Original head bolts, original cams, phasers, and lifters. No wear, no leaks, no problems. Did have to replace the crankcase breather. Overbuilt, hand assembled, and massively understressed.
This is a daunting repair with major issues. But it just shows Dave's reputation in the business. If Dave can take this on you know it will be done right. And it will be expensive. Cause right always is.
I love the commitment to perfection with a good dollop of empathy for the customer, these are the kinda people you want working on your car. But I bet it ain't cheap. 😅
This shop is legit. I work on Mercedes engines and sometimes people tamper with them themselves and to be able to take over where someone left off on any engine is a big liability. Good job guys!
It’s interesting seeing the ups and downs of trying to fix someone else’s mistakes. I can only imagine what the customer is going through trying to get what he’s already paid for and getting the song and dance routine from the dealer and the repair shop that the dealer trusted with the initial repair. Short of going to a tech school and getting a degree in automotive engineering and then apprenticing with a master mechanic and then doing the work yourself, the customer is caught between the dealer, who doesn’t possess the knowledge or skilled mechanics to service their more complex or older models, and the repair shop that was struck with the problem. I have a 24 year old BMW E39 M5 that I can’t trust the dealer to fix correctly and the independents refuse to even look at because they don’t have mechanics with experience on the vehicle, so I do all the work myself. It’s an education in human nature and automotive mechanics at the same time. Great video and can’t wait to see the final outcome for this engine and for the owner of the vehicle.
Hes 100% wrong about that being a flat plane crank that is a cross plane crank. On a flat plane crank the rod journals are 180 degrees out cross plane is 90 degrees. That is definitely a standard cross plane
@@justinhartsell4418 There was a weird vibe there. If Justin is correct, why did they leave that video in there? I agree with Quicksilver, it doesn't look good if he is wrong.
This is what pure ownership and accountability of ones life and craft looks like. Truly dieing attributes in this world. This garage is what it is becuase of the core principles this man lives with. Nothing but respect and admiration
You're a good man to even try and fix this Dave. Knowing the time consuming headache this is, most people would run a mile from a job like this. Good luck mate. 💪🤛
Guys, this was a SERIOUSLY well produced video. This was very entertaining to watch, and kept my interest. Better than anything I've seen on pro-TV production (Discovery, etc). Whoever edited this did a great job keeping it entertaining and tight. Subscribed.
Damn yall got a crazy job on your hands. This is the type of stuff why I never recommend a dealership they got some flat rate hack that had no clue what he was going working on a $65k motor. That’s just madness. They have the right guy on the job now tho!! Good luck to you guys
Would love to see you tour the AMG power plant facility...just talking engine shop w AMG engineers..I dont think people realise what goes into a hand built AMG engine. Then tour Chevys LS engine assembly line. Just hearing the convos will be beyond entertaining and informative . Great work, and attention to detail...the way you explain situations and solutions is clearer and more understandible than most instructors in universitys.
I'm 13 wanting to become a mechanic and so far this is the only channel that has provided information that is true so thanks for the good and detailed videos
Want to learn a lot about engines go watch Steve morris. Coming from a mechanic of 22 years. Good luck kid hope your successful the trade needs young blood who want to learn
Mercedes Benz needs to justify why that engine cost more than a Caterpillar c15 diesel engine, Detroit, Duramax, Powerstroke ,Cummings , 632 BBC and a 598 BBF fully assembled engines with everything on it ready to drop in between the frame rails🤷🏿♂️
Had an air con compressor problem. Traced it to the control solenoid, a common fail on that particular variable stroke compressor. Asked the Benz dealer to change the solenoid. He said no, they would swap out the whole compressor. He said they weren't trained to do the solenoid. (1 electrical plug, 1 circlup then a regas). Stay away from the dealer shops, go to the privateers.
Mercedes is a manufacturer. They make money selling what they make. They leave the deep dive repairs to the people that will eventually buy the stuff they make.
😅 his son clearly is good for rattle gun work undoing bolts.. . Id say not much else. Doesnt know a flat plane crank from cross plane and he thinks a crack in a expensive crankshaft is quality. ..apparently
The design of having main bearing (upper/lower) caps made from two different material is crazy. It’s setting up the customer for major repair costs! They have the tech to insert these steel inserts into the cavity.
Handling doesn't matter if the vehicle won't even DRIVE. These motors are too crazy and I don't see how, without straight ripping every customer off / money laundering, a company that manufacturers intricate junk can be viable at all. Screw Mercedes
