Like someone mentioned, I was all modern mode red Ch till years later I discovered the beautiful throatyness of the vintage mode orange ch. Another classic rectifier tone. I think this needs a part 2, exploring the other modes on both channels.
IMO the rectifier is the highest quality and most versatile amp if you like it. I could get classic rock sounds that I preferred through the Orange channel, or some more modern stuff on either channel. The Orange just seems to have more body and miss if I’m not mistaken, the Red channel is more smooth.
The difference in Modern mode primarily comes from the tonestack . On the older 3 channel heads and the original 2 channel heads the value used for the treble cap isn't the same. This results in a different frequency response curve of the eq. The red channel has more high mids and scoops the midrange at around 430Hz. The orange channel scoops at around 500Hz and has less mids (about 1 - 2.5dB) than the red channel. The orange channel can somewhat imitate the red channel by simply running the mids a little higher. Also the presence pot is hooked up different on the orange channel that's why it does almost nothing unless it's turned up all the way. (This is somewhat of a intended designflaw that was in the original 2 Channel Heads and was carried over to the 3 channel non Multiwatt heads.) On Vintage mode both the red and orange channel are the same with the exception that the presence pot on the red channel has a different value and needs to be turned up a bit more. But the overall available presence in both channels is exactly the same. On Raw mode the the eqs are the same but the presence is different on both channels. On the red channel the presence acts as a high end boost just like in Vintage mode. On the orange Channel the presence control acts as a high end cut. On the current Multwatt heads both channels are identical regardless of the mode selected: Raw: 2CH Head, Orange channel, Vintage Mode but with Clean selected (but with more gain) Vintage: 2Ch Head, Orange channel, Vintage Mode Modern: 3Ch Head, Red channel, Modern Mode
I appreciate your nerdy comparison! I have a modern Dual Rec Multi-Watt also and Ch 2 & 3 sound much closer on this iteration of the amp than my original early 2000s Triple Rec. On that amp, each of those channels were "optimized" for the specific setting (Ch 2 for Vintage, Ch 3 for Modern) and there was a much greater difference in brightness overall. I prefer this modern version because those channels sound closer to each other and blend better (in my opinion, at least). What I've found useful is to use one of the Channels for a rhythm track and then use the other for the lead sounds so they blend better and each stands out more. That all being said, I find myself playing thru Ch 2 on Vintage mode more and use Ch 3 Modern for more "extreme cases". I always enjoy your videos, thanks for yet another great one!🤘🤘🤘
Interesting. Although I would have loved to hear you explore the vintage-modes! On my old recto (3-channel non multiwatt with EL34s) I often gravitate towards the vintage-mode. It doesn't immediately strike you as the better sounding channel, but where as the modern mode can get too bright, gainy and almost fatiguing over time, making me wanna play something else, a well-dialed vintage-channel usually just sits where it should and I'm almost always happy with it. Admittedly I haven't recorded my mesa enough to know for a recording tho 😄
I have the Road King version, so it’s probably a little different, but I prefer the orange channel on mine. I preferred the orange channel on yours as well, but just barely. It seems to have a little bit more upper midrange bite that the red channel doesn’t have
I think overall the red channel is better for this, but man, that part with the chords ringing out on one side sounded quite a bit better on the orange channel to me. The red channel has the attack for the chugs but I think the orange would be better for strummed or held out chords maybe.
Excellent, as usual, Jon! Really love your rifs! Would you be so kind to make a video from start to finish with the editing in the DAW included? Thanks.
Awesome video. I love using the orange channel and just switch between modern and vintage depending on what flavor I'm going for. I noticed you don't use the master output, only the channels master. Do you leave the loop off then? Do you notice a big difference in the sound? I like to keep the loop on and utilize the amps master volume otherwise its wayyyyy too loud and I have to keep the channel master way down.
I noticed that too. Maybe that was just the pic at the time.. I recently turned down the loop in the back to 10:00. I get more aggression and can now turn my master vol down without loosing girth.
I have the same amp🔥 when im tracking i like to use both chn…depending on the song. They also sound good with red on one side and org on the other side… great sounding amp🤘🔥
for me, i'd set ch2 for rhythm and vintage, and ch3 for just a different voice on modern. i have a 2 channel single rec, that i set to either modern or vintage and leave for the gig, as there's quite a jump in volume between the two. that's why i think having a third channel at times would be nice, but happy as it is.
Are you using an OD on this? I have a multi watt triple rectifier and cannot seem to get these tones out of it, even using the same or similar IRs. I did find that using an OD with drive about noon, level all the way up, and tone shit 2 o'clock, gave it more aggression. Would be interested in seeing you dial that in with this. Can you get it more similar to the red channel that way?
Yeah I use an OD with mine. I don’t know if mine needs new tubes or if it’s how it is, but it never sounds as high gain as in videos on its own. I do see that my preamp tubes have black rings on them. Might just need new tubes. I get the tone with an OD fine though.
I will concede that Recs were overused from '99 to roughly '05. I worked in several recording studios back then and EVERY rock/metal band would always cart them into the live room. 5150 amps were a close second, with Marshall DSLs bringing up the rear.
What are your thoughts on IR length ? I am looking for a redseven ampcentral but i am worried that the 20ms ir length it too short and will get obsolete in the future. I use 200+ms IRs at the moment.
I'd love to see a red modern vs. red vintage comparisson. On my rev G, i strongly prefer the voicing of red channel using the orange poweramp voicing. I'm not sure why, but it just fits more easily in a mix. I wonder if the same is true with the mult-watt....cheers
Diezel is trash. The three amps I've owned were all compressed, lacking high end, and extremely hi-fi sounding. The worst amps I've ever owned price to performance wise.
@@moisttowelette5353 They work great in combination with other amplifiers. They add something that other amplifiers lack. If I play the 8 string to the Diezel I will add ENGL. If Nu metal I will add Mesa rect. If it's heavy rock or heavy metal, I'll add Bogner uberschall. If I play something similar to punk, then I'll add Park.
@@WillVRam sorry, I am a very lazy person to make videos. But I can throw off examples where this was used: Deftones - Rosemary and Goon Squad (Diezel + Bogner Ecstasy red ch), Gauze (Diezel + Engl), Korn - Here to Stay (Diezel + Mesa rect), Avenged Sevenfold - Natural Born Killer (Diezel + Bogner Uber), Billy Talent - live (Stephenson Amp + Diezel ch2 on chorus), Three Days Grace - Explosions album (Diezel + Park)
The main difference between the orange and red channels in older 3ch. dual rectifiers is that the red channel's tonestack (and only in modern mode) is noticeably different, since the mids knob gets shifted from 800Hz (in vintage and raw) to 700Hz. The orange channel does not have this. But what is again different between the 2 channels is that the orange channel's presence potentiometer value is 25KΩ, while the red channel has a 100KΩ potentiometer, so this will heavily affect the feeling of the presence potentiometer. Sidenote: because of the presence potentiometer's value, the 3ch. orange channel in modern is closer to the 2ch. dual rectifier red channel in modern. And the 3ch. red in vintage is much closer to the 2ch. orange channel in vintage. :)
I'm sorry but this is not correct. The mid dip is dependent on the setting of the Treble knob. Most players set Treble to around 6-7. This result in a shift of the mid control to about 550Hz in the orange channel. The mids of the red channel are shifted down even more when in Modern mode (around 500Hz). The values of the presence pots are indeed different but the presence circuit is not the same for both channels. Modern Mode: Red channel has a 100k pot at the tonestack. Orange channel has a 25k pot but at the poweramp not the tonestack! There is a fixed presence circuit at the output of the tonestack that gets switched in. This is derived from the 2 channel heads (when you cloned the orange channel to modern the presence remained at the poweramp and a fixed presence circuit was connected to the tonestack). Technically the red channel of the 3ch. head is the closest to the red on the 2ch. heads. The 3ch. just has more presence avaiable than the older 2 channel heads. Vintage Mode: Both channels are almost the same with the exeption of the presence circuit. The red channel needs to be cranked up more to approximate the red channel. There is also a bit more high end roll off at the output of the red channel but that is not really noticable. Raw Mode: Same eq but the presence is completly different for both channels. Red channel has a presence boost at the poweramp while the orange channel has a presence cut at the tonestack output.
@@UncleBensRice Thanks for correcting me on the presence knob part, i assumed the schematic was wrong (I'm talking about the 3ch solo head preliminary schematic, the only one available to me) since i RY4a was printed wrong and corrected with a pen, and that red and orange had slight components differences but otherwise were cloned. Anyways, i still stand by my analysis of the tonestack, since i simulated the circuit with everything at 5 (or noon, whichever you prefer) and i simulated the tonestack at noon, with the treble being at 7 and then your analysis is correct too, so i think there's a slight misunderstanding. But either way, thanks again for the correction :)
@@CoolestMcGuy Yes that's the correct schematic. Most people assume that the writing is wrong and switching around the presence pot for the orange channel is the same as on the red channel. The whole switching matrix is confusing but the writing is in fact correct. Mesa also claims in the manual that the pots could get changed out to achieve a more similar presence behavior of both channels. But that wouldn't work out because the circuit isn't the same on both channels. I'm sure that's the source of this common missassumption about the pot values being the only difference between the two channels. The non Multiwatt heads also behave like the markings on the schematic indicate. I've brought a 2000/2001 Triple Rectifier and it did behave quite different compared to my MW Dual that I also own. On the MW Rectifiers both channels are identical to each other. I did simulate the whole tonestack and presence circuit. Most people use Treble at around 6-7 Mids at around 3-4 and Bass at around 5-6. That's the classic "Recto Tone" and thats how I set my amps. I used Treble: 6.5, Bass: 6.5, Mids: 3.5, Presence: 2 to simulate the circuit.
@@UncleBensRice Thanks for the clarification again, i probably i have mixed up the multi-watt and the older 3ch. rectifiers. all in all, i appreciate you correcting me :)
@@CoolestMcGuy No Problem. The Multiwatt heads are different to the older 3ch Models. Orange and red are exactly the same. Mesa included a custom stacked pot for the presence. So one side is 100k for Modern mode and the other is 25k and is located in the poweramp for the Raw and Vintage mode. Both channels have the additional 180pF cap that is switched in when Modern is selected. The cleans are supposed to be like a Lonestar but it's actually more similar to the old 3ch. cleans just a bit brighter.
Good video. General question about several RU-vidrs: what’s the point of comparing tone if you’re trying to get one to sound like the other? Why not just use identical settings? Maybe just minor tweaks. But there was a significant difference in the presence. Let the channels actually be different.
На этом канале есть три видео с этим усилком: демо с 16 гитарами (Laney Ironheart IRT60H in-depth demo! (16 guitars), сравнение с Orange rockerverb (HIGH-GAIN Comparison! Laney Ironheart vs Orange Rockerverb! (Tone Battles #2) и демо в различных стилях (Laney Ironheart 60 IRT60H! Insanely Versatile Amp??)
I love my red channel for modern and orange for Metallica style. Question, I need to replace my tubes on my Dual Rec but I’m not sure what tubes to go with or where to buy them because of the Toilet paper shortage..I mean tube shortage.
I feel like the Red channel sound is coming from an 160º V angle in front of me 7:35, whereas the orange feels like coming in 180º 7:40 Orange feels like embracing my ears more, but it has less "chugness" and sharpness.
I had a recto. It was awesome but it's REALLY boomy even with a tube screamer and the effects loop is a pile of shit you have to have modified if you want to run effects through. I don't know how people don't live without some kind of EQ, and certainly a delay for leads not to mention a touch of reverb...none of those play well unless you get a serial loop mod, and even then it sounds like garbage. If you like just the RAW heavy sound, then they are beyond fantastic. I'd probably go for the JP2C or EVH 6L6.
