So it's very much a matter of play before you pay!. Cheers for that, I've been considering getting one now that the market is going back to realistic prices.
Hey Kyle. The potentiometers vary by much more than 5% - they vary a ton. Also make sure the pots are all installed in the same orientation so that minimum on all pots has the knob indicator at the same 7:00 position. The pots don’t have tabs that lock them to the chassis, so they can all be rotated by slightly different amounts. So setting all the knobs to noon doesn’t set each amp “the same”.
I came here to say this, pots are usually in the 10%+ ranage in tolerance for their maximum values but the taper of them can differ out of the box. The tapers also change with wear so if one was owned and used regularly and played with the tone/gain knobs a lot then they will shift. Output transformer, Power transformer, Electrolytic capacitors, bias resistor values & tolerance can shift dramatically with age, use and storage conditions.
inferior to what? solid state amps that try to sound like them? That's an absolutely ridiculous statement. There are a select few live setups that are great for ease of use but even the big time players that go that route have been switching back to tube setups@@imogendedo8296
@@RX120D That sounds like your buy online. Hmmm I just wouldn't have the sand to drop that kind of cheese on an amp I didn't play at least 15 mins or so
I really like your videos. You're very down to earth. You mentioned Fluff in your video, and one thing that I don't like about him is he always comes off as a low-key "I've got friends in high places" kinda guy the way he reffers to his "big-shot" relationships. You've never been like that. Props on coming off as so humble and approachable.
Hey Kyle, I gotta say.... I KEEP coming back to your amp videos and reviews. They're just great quality. And I am a high gain player recently on a bit of a buying binge so I am often seeking out reviews... And I find yours consistently pertinent, entertaining and full of useful information, no wasted chatter. Your shit is just great man, thanks so much for what you are doing here! It influences my buying decisions in a positive way. As for tube amps, there are so many environmental variables that affect the tone from place to place. They are sensitive things. So surely factors like part sources, repair and maintenance history, number of hours played will also cause one amp to have particular characteristics. Lack of consistency is not great, but if you spend enough time trying it out before buying it, you'll know if you've found the one you connect with
Yes this is the truth! I never really got the rectifier until I was recording at a small studio and the producer blended my triaxis on 2c+ with his dual rec and I was sold. Also sounds amazing with the 5153, complements amazing with mids out the rec. I even bought the mercurial rectofire just so I could have access to a good rec sound at home consistently. Needs a hot front end, boost pedal or even an eq with highs and high mids cranked.
I had a '92 model with the black tread plate and chrome chassis that was way more midrangey and hashy than most. It had a kinda "ratty" type sound. Then I got a super decked out red croco Road King 2×12 combo with matching 2×12 extension cab as an employee at an authorized Mesa dealership. It was more dark and not nearly as aggressive, but the clean channel (taken from the LoneStar series) and the reverb was superb. Then I got a 50 watt Single Rec and custom ordered KT88s with compatible biasing and that was THE ONE! Man, that amp was a BEAST, but I had to sell it when my car broke down and needed replaced. 😫
I got my first Dual Rectifier in 2001 and I had to swap it out as that first one was a bit of a "lemon" and I can attest to the inconsistencies. It lasted me about 5 years with a few tube changes before it eventually crapped out on me and selling it for super cheap before going with something else. With Mesa's you've gotta search and sift through them before finding "the one" that hits your ear just right...or as close as you can get. I still want an early 90s two channel one. The "right one" among that list is truly a sort of holy grail I've been after for a while. Great video, man. I really dig what you do! Much support! \m/
Loving all your recent vids! The channel keeps getting better - keep up the good work. Also, I recommend getting a midi foot controller for the KHE switcher. I just did the same and it’s awesome hands-free switching while playing or reamping
The funny thing is that you're right. My first rectifier was a late model three channel triple. Very flubby, fizzy. Had difficulty playing it without a 33 style boost. My 2018 multi watt Triple is completely opposite. I found my dream recto tone. Its a keeper.
The Nomad 100 (came from Kyle haha) is a bad ass extremely misunderstood amp. Has a horrible reputation as Mesas retarded stepchild but it’s actually a really good metal amp. Cleans are meh and lackluster but great for the metal
%5 is common industrial practice and not a bad tolerance ratio. it may lie in fixed bias of Mesa. as they get more complex and tight, heat becomes a big issue and can affect resistors on fixed bias. cooling the tubes and changing the resistances to their correct values on bias could lead them to a better place.
It sounds almost as if amp B is receiving/processing a lower gain signal. I have no idea about electronics but it would be cool if it was possible to monitor the signal volume as it passes through each main component of the amp, to measure if the gain staging is the same between both amps as the signal passes through. Similarly, it would be interesting to monitor the signals with a graphic EQ to observe any differences - for example if you could monitor the signal after it is received by the amp but PRIOR to the distortion, and noting any differences in the frequencies. Also, you demonstrated this with a real mic and cab combination in person. I'm also curious to see the differences when both amp's are sent to a digital cab IR instead, as well as comparing when the signal is recorded straight from the amp but without going into a cab (as unflattering as this usually sounds) just to observe the differences without some of the extra variables that can come with recording a real cab with a mic in person (room noise/environment etc). I wonder what the most practical way to "calibrate" these amps would be to compensate for their sonic differences. I come from the world of VST Plugins where there are products such as JST Toneforge DI Match, so I'm imagining something sort of along those lines. I feel like that is the right move (treating the signal pre-distortion) as opposed to using EQ matching when post-processing.
I have a triple rev G, a dual rev G and a three channel from 2005. If I set them all up the same on the eq, they all sound different but if I set them up different by ear, I get them to sound basically the same. Only big difference I notice is that the three channel has a slightly better clean channel. Nothing to write home about though. I've experienced the same with other amp models and brands. I think it's just the nature of the beast. I think that's the whole point of eqs, to adjust to differences in system as a whole to ultimately reach the sound you're after.
Great video, definitely was hearing what you we're hearing in the differences, older for sure more compressed and midrangy, newer definitely more scooped and woofier. I think something people also often take for granted is that potentiometers are also secretly notorious for tolerance changes and so you can never really trust a 1-1 comparison, always have to use your ears or have a reference!
Actually, there is one more reason why these amps may sound and feel so different. Rectos are fixed bias amps, and overall, it makes owner's life easier, but if you wish to get a proper tone from your Rectifier, you will need to buy a proper set of tubes. We say Rectifiers had about 5% tolerance in their components, but the same types of tubes from the same manufacturers may have much more difference on their current draw. The easiest way to run Recto correctly is, obviously, to get new matched tubes directly from Mesa. Of course, there are some other great tube sellers on the market, like Euro Tubes, where you can find a matched set of 6L6GC, EL34L, KT77 or anything else specifically for Rectifier amp. From my experience, at least every second Rectifier made before 2010 sounds crappy just because its owner don't give a fuck about the tubes he or she buys. From what I hear in this video, an older Tremoverb (bottom) runs much colder bias compared to the amp on top. Of course, they may sound a bit different for real, but if you get the same matched tube set with correct current and run in both amps, the difference will be less noticeable.
is there a site with a tremoverb matched pack you'd recommend? just got an older one and it's got some mixed match tubes right now i think holding it back
@@zakarygibson2860sweetwater, but they sell out fast so you might have to wait after placing your order, or your sales rep will point you to where they’re currently in stock
It's absolutely a career if your making money doing it. Might not get rich off guitar playing itself, but if your using them as tools in demos, they become essential. Just keep doing what your doing, boss. Your gonna be just fine.
Yes! I have found very similar things with my triple wrecks. I am bigger into the Triples for the headroom. I had a later serial Triple a decade back - and friggin hated it. It was what my band used at the time and stuck with it. I got used to it but, I also felt like I needed more in the mids while it was really saturated. I got another 2 channel triple and while I love the experience more (like an experience that carries a bit of reverence detailing my relationship to the amp) It doesn't get nearly as saturated and find that I have to hit it with a boost very hard. The mids have a better presentation and its not as flubby on the bottom end as other rectos I have heard. I now play lower baritone 7 string stuff with big chords and so I believe it fits it nicely. Great video!!!
This is so true! My first Recto was an early 2000s non multi watt 3channel, and I hated it. Many years later I acquired another non-multi watt 3 channel in a trade, and it was AMAZING!! it was an absolute monster. I assumed it was maybe my ear. I thought I just didn't dial in the first one well enough. Several years later I sold that Recto for a Mark V. Then a friend picked up a Recto and I dialed itnin the same as the one I liked..... and I hated it. I have never liked a Recto since that second one I stumbled upon. Wish I still had it.... it was something special!
Tube amps can vary quite a bit from amp to amp. Îd like a rectifier someday. The rev g sounds a lot tighter. The one at bottom alone needs a little help to clean the bottom a bit, boosted it sounds nice in the video.
In a mix the older amp will be by far the better choice to slice through with. Newer one is way too saturated and more low focused. Guess it depends what you need for a song or part?
I love how the camera just keeps pulling back to reveal more of them....first 4, then 5, then 6. I'm sure I'll get my answer but my first thought, at like 24 seconds in, is why so maaany.
Multi-Watt DR is a keeper for me. Even if I didn't use the gain channels, I'd be thrilled to play through the clean. The clean channel is amazing on it.
I've been modding my own mesa amps for a while now and also ended up building a midi-fied "clone" of a 2ch dual rec during the lockdown period of 2021. I was glad that I could take reference from my own Rev F Triple Rec, otherwise I would have maybe given up on the project. The cascading gain design of the SLO/Rec/5150 is so sensitive to part tolerances that you can just build such an amp by the schematic and have it sound not at all like you want it. With the original Triple Rec, I could at least tweak my own amp ever so slightly to make it sound closer to the original. Honestly, the preamp circuits on all Rectos I had the chance to check out yet were really 98% identical and the fact whether the amp ended up sounding good or not often came down to very subtle changes or component value drifts here and there.
You are correct 👍🏿 - Rectos are sonically INCONSISTENT. I never buy Rectos sight unseen; I don’t care which model. I have to demo it, no matter what. Every single model varies greatly sonically from tight to fuzzy, messy gain to saggy, flubby bass.
@@michaelfinnegan3805 Sampling multiple amps is what Kyle Bull does ALL the time on his RU-vid. You are on the wrong RU-vid, then. “Messy tone?” You don’t play all your amps simultaneously at the same time, you f’g dipsh1t. “Multiple amps?” You are f’g tripping.
I used Mesa's 2:100 rack amp with the rectifier recording preamp rack unit for years and eventually sold the entire setup due to it constantantly overheating and frying tubes even after multiple services. Found out later it was ultimately due to the chassis design being too small.
Dude, I got the Blackstar pedal board amp. You reviewed the red one. I have the black one. It’s badass!! Takes pedals very well. Not to mention the watt adjustment switch. Super versatile. I finally found my jam. Works really well in a jam setting too. I find myself having to turn down up against Gerry’s EVH Black series 50w head. Which is FUCKING amazing btw.
personally, i feel the age of tubes makes a difference. try swap the tubes over from amps with each other. but, i really feel you're feeling more difference in the room with the amp than most would hear within a track or when live in a mix. the biggest thing i feel makes rectifiers special is adjusting the gain to lower than you feel you need and less bass, at 9 o'clock or lower. i run a single rec and find i can pretty much get anything out of it except for a fender twin SRV tone. but i use it for covers, funk, pop punk blink 182 to church music, and it just works so well.
I had a 3 channel dual rec for a few years. I NEVER loved it. I was super ecstatic to have a "real amp" after using a Marshall MG100 for my teen years, but quickly found that I was sitting there constantly moving the knobs to tweak and never finding a happy place for me. Traded it for a Mark III red stripe and have been absolutely obsessed with the Mark III ever since. It's been retired to storage though with the release of the IKM Tonex pedal.
I’ve owned about 5 or 6 tremoverbs over the years and every single one of them have sounded and played differently. Found one that I really liked and never got rid of it, 15 years later still own it.
I think the component tolerances stack up and change plate voltages. Measure plate voltages for all amps. I used to find Marshall tsl 2000 60watt amps @370v sound good, it may be something to look at for recs.
You‘re right! Owned several Rectifiers in the last 15 years. Bought a Dual Rectifier two channel from Richard Kruspe with a voodoo amp mod. Thought it must be good. In the end I was right. Had the luck to get a good one. But in the end it wasn‘t good enough for him… Great content bzw. Loved your Rectifier „mod“ video
I can't get a descent tone from a rectifier without a pedal boost.. and when I heard that the album the gathering from testament it's just a guitar straight to the amp I was blown away, Eric is a beast of a guitar player, for me it's almost impossible to pick that hard in high speed to sound so tight with a rectifier without a pedal
The Gathering is still my favorite album of theirs. It’s relentlessly nasty. Eric probably had fairly low gain dialed in, and the multiple tracks made it sound as tight as it did on that record.
@@systematic11 it's my favorite too my friend, I don't know how they did it but when I think of mesa this is the sound I'm after, or dead heart in a dead world from nevermore, Andy sneap also used mesa for the guitar tones
This is why people get into changing capacitors and resistor types lol. I've recapped and changed resistor type on pieces of equipment, higher quality and tolerance but keepiing the same values, and the stuff comes out sounding completely different. Sometimes better, sometimes worse.
As a machinist, I'd love to know what tolerances are being referenced here. Kyle sounds like he's only parroting what he heard from someone else. Are we talkin about capacitor values? 5% of what?
@@Starch1b2c3d4a Could you be a little more specific.......bro? Caps, resistors? Are you talkin about the manufacturing process, or the aging of the amp with use?
@@shelbyavant5081 it's 5% of it's nominal value In an amp like this you have tens, almost hundred caps, and they are of all sorts of types, size, value. An electrolytic cap at 5% tolerance is a rather good part, but 5% on a film cap is rather standard.
My Rectoverb 50 is still my goto amp. I don't think I'll ever get rid of it. Covers all the bases. Drop in an eq and it gets pretty damn close to the Puppets sound.
The only Mesa's I love are the RectoVerbs. I find the other ones have a certain fizz to my ear that I don't like. I had a combo when they first released but it was a mess. It kept shaking itself apart. After like 5 repair jobs they just kept it. Now I have 2, just in case.. Plus, I like any amp where the soundman asks you which speaker you want mic'd up. Then you tell him it's only one speaker...
You'll usually get variations like that because _theyre individually made, "boutique" amps._ So they're going to have their differences. There's also one thing I don't like about those amps, it's mainly THE PRICE! They're pretty dang expensive! I'm surprised you have so many!
I love my modded Marshall Superleads. Early 70's 100 and 50 watts. Compared to a stock Marshall TSL combo a friend had....his combo sounded like crap! No comparison what so ever!!!! That video on the Marshall Jubilee 100 watt you did...that Marshall sounded incredibly great! Blew me away how great it was! It blew these Mesa's away!
I think recto 1 would be really fun to play in the room but recto 2 would sound better in a mix (after cutting out some of that deep low end to make it a little tighter) because of those snarly mids. boosted recto 1 was my personal favorite tone. im a digital gearhead so ive only tried various modeled rectos from different modelling companies so no real experience with the amps though great video !
Brutha! Exactly!!! The same things with Marshall JCM 800's. I have two Marshall SL5's and they're sound so different, and they're only made 30 days apart according to the s#.
Wow there is a huge difference between those 2 Kyle great demonstration,I always wanted a rectifier the multi watt actually, but then I think about all parts involved, and I can't afford one anyway!😂peace man..
Must be nice being able to afford more than one of the same Recto to even notice this issue 😂 I liked mine for the knob on the back that made the FX loop automatically turn on for a certain channel. Plus the two volume knobs. Very handy!
same thing with old marshalls. they were nototrious for using whatever caps/resistors they had on hand, so no 2 sounded the same. i think with any tube amp its best to play before you buy.
Major Recto user hear, I’ve owned many Rectifiers.. Not only do they vary amp to amp, but the sound can vary day to day, room to room. Not hugely, mind you, but I’ve noticed the same amp can sound different from day to day.
for sure there are tolerances in the componenets that made this difference in sound. first thing are valve, in my humble opionon i'd try the same valves not only type and brand but the same valves. also potentiometers could make differences even if the setting are the same. two 500k pot sometimes react differently.
I’ve recorded a lot of metal and punk bands, so of course I’ve seen my share of triple recs. What I’ve hated and still hated is this: it has way way to many knobs and options for the vast majority of players. I’ve literally never had a band come in and have it perfectly set, marked on the knobs etc and just plug in ready to go. The always start fiddling with it. And not just minor tweaks, I’m talking full on major knob turns with seemingly no rhyme or reason. I assume they do this at every show and every practice too, just waking over and turning knobs, switching channels, hitting switches etc. That’s my major pain with it. Sometimes less is more lol one I had success with is the single rec 50watt we have there. It’s pretty much plug-in and go. I think it’s related to what you are saying, people are trying to get the good sound they have heard on other recs and just can’t get it dialed right😊
Something to consider as well - since mesa likes to use under-rated components, components that are actually different values from what they said they put in there, putting a cap where there should be a resistor, stack them on top of one another (IE putting an electrolytic cap right next to/basically on top of a diode or something else that’ll get hot and boil the electrolyte), all of this will contribute to different sounds. If someone working on an amp that day accidentally put a .0047uf cap instead of a .47uf cap in a low pass filter circuit, well…there’s going to be a pretty massive tonal difference. And honestly stuff like that happens pretty frequently with a lot of manufacturers. I see you’ve been frequenting the amp tech circles on RU-vid lately so if you watch enough of Lyle or Brads videos or commentary on Mesa in particular, you’ll really start to understand there’s some pretty “special” things mesa likes to do in particular that will result in all kinds of consistency (not to mention reliability) variances.
Wow, thanks for info. I've tried Mesa at studio a few times and since that day I went cheap external preamp to return. Now I know that maybe it was just bad unit.
I hated mine... till I swapped out the pre-AMP tubes and put in some secret sauce of 2 jjs, a sovtek, a tungsol, and a shuguang for good measure, there's a mythos about the components of origin with the tubes, their characteristics and what position they are in...
It is hard to properly gauge when you are not in the room, but I feel no.2 has more compression and definitely more low end and more gain than no.1, which is also maybe why it gets rapidly saturated in the low end when it is boosted. No.1 has a nice sound, a nice growl, which is more articulated. I would probably get no.2 because of the increased headroom in the gain and low end, but in my opinion, there is nothing that cannot be overcome turning the knobs up and down. When musicians used to go to the studio in the old days to choose an amp, they would spend a lot of time comparing Marshalls even though they were the same models. This is what gives old pieces of gear their "cachet".
Tolerances, tubes, and wall voltage all vary and have effects on the tone. You cannot assume the pots are the same sweep values. Just learn to dial in each amp by sound and ignore the exact settings for each of the pots. 5% tolerance is typical with amp electronics.
Had a buddys holy grail dual rectos on loan for a year. Orange crunch vintage mode was heaven. Never heard smthg like that again. Told him to never sell it… he tried. Kruspe from rammstein contacted him, wante a huge discount cause of fame. Buddy said. Nah. I keep it. Still has it.
Sooo.... tubes? What's in the power section of both amps? What's in the V1 on each? Mullards don't sound like JJ's which don't sound like tung-sol and on and on. That goes for your V1 12ax7 too.
Tubes dont change the sound of the amp which I thought before doing the research with tonal difference in tube amps.. Now I think its more in parts and quality in how they are made.
ive got a 93 tremoverb that i think is special. I had some other rectifiers but they are a try before you buy type of amps. My tremoverb sort of needs a recap so I just dont use it. I dont think it will come back the same.
Even newer Boogies have this. I had a JP-2C from when they first came out and sold it off. Bought another one last year. They're markedly different. The newer one is a lot more responsive and the controls seem to be a bit more balanced.
I really like Boogies, I have never loved the dual recs. I hate the trem-o-verb. The roadster has some really good sounds, but it also has some really bad ones. That’s the issue with all the range that some mesa amps have. They can have some magical sounds when dialed in right, but they can sound really bad in certain settings.
amp #1 had the best bass response for me, amp #2 did have a kind of cool scoop but it was flubby and the bass for mutes is so important so Id say amp #1 would be my choice the last amp you added in was very close to amp #1 without being in the room Id choose #1 between all 3 based purely on the low end response. watched your video on my ADAM studio monitors and there was definitely a noticable difference between 1 and 2
I heard the difference but I actually found all 3 usable. I did fly dates with my band in the early 2000s and I would try to request a rectifier if possible and I was never disappointed.
My experience about rectifier is monster high gain with "dry" throat, but if you boost your mid with "exciter" pedal on loops and coloring with overdrive on front make everything so saturated, tighter, and creamy.
