Meshtastic Routing Issues & Deployment Scenarios 

Haha, happy to help!

Maybe I should watch this again more carefully, but I did not understand how to get a map of my area to see whether I should deploy a repeater and where.

@@lua-nya Don't feel bad, there's a lot to that question. I believe the data for the map came from his discord meshtastic group for the area, but I don't believe he says for sure. As to where and when to deploy a repeater? What I've been telling people is that it's something that kinda has to be planned for, you should talk to your local community. One part of it, is the node for a repeater should be able to see a lot more nodes than any other node in the area. This is because a repeater forces packets to route through it, so if you don't see a large area with the repeater, you're just wasting hop counts for no reason, much like how the first part of the video explains. The second part, is you want the repeaters to be far apart from each other. They should be able to consistently make contact with only a few (and really, as few as possible to get the coverage you want) repeaters in their range. This is also explained by the first part of the video. If there's a repeater in between two others, then packets are just going to waste hops going through a repeater they didn't need to. Did that help any?

@@DavidSikesII One part of the community outreach is that you need to have a better idea than just 'I live on a hill...' I'd say that at the very least you should have, or perform a site survey, where you first see if you can see one or more 'rotuer' elements that can see each other. If you can, then you may want to set up as a Client first, as it will resend packets as well, If you can see two router elements that can't see each other, then your node _may_ provide a bridge for packe traffic between clients of either or both of those nodes. If you are a ham, you might consider a repeater to be a bit like a 2m or 440 repeater (or any of the other bands they are on, 10m, 5m, 220, 10cm) where a client is acting a bit more like a cross band repeater in your car or on your roof, that you link with your HT to in order to reach out to the greater mesh. I would love it if I had an easy way (that I know, so it's mostly just training on my part) to set up my mobile link with short-fast, and the link I'm treating as a client be able to interlink that shortfast with the long-slow (or even short-slow..) Effectively I'd like to be able to bridge my t-deck in 'local/low power' mode to a larger mesh through a T-beam on a home tower that can see the people in the area. (or one in my truck when mobile, or, you get the idea.) Perhaps I'm just missing elements of the configuration that I need to learn.

Sure thing! Hope it helps spread the word!

Glad my channel has been helpful! Really appreciate the comment!

Sure thing! Appreciate you being mindful of the mesh! It should probably be fine, just depends on how many people are on the mesh. Meshtastic will still route encrypted traffic even if it's your own key, so your concern there is correct. Since most of your scenarios are at a local level, you likely wouldn't need help from the greater mesh and use your own mesh in these scenarios by either switching the modem preset to LONG_MODERATE or staying on LONG_FAST and changing the frequency slot.

Thanks for the scenarios!

Glad it was helpful!

Thanks! Hope so!

Sure thing! Feel free to reach out anytime with questions here or our Discord. There's a TennMesh channel there.

I wish those of us in Roane had access to a tower way up in the air. Then we could have one "Router" and a few Clients. Unfortunately neither your nor my nodes show on the maps of this video.

@@bartlmay The nodes on this map are just theoretical for the most part

@@The_Comms_Channel I made that comment for Yardsale. On one of the latter maps of the video it showed a Client where I know a Meshtastic user lives. Due to the terrain of this part of Roane County it is difficult to have comms between us. EX: I live at 800' ASL and I have two other Meshtastic users within 5 miles of me but they also live at 800' ASL but on the other side of a ridge that peaks at 1000' ASL.

Sure thing! Thank you so much for the support!

Will do! Thanks for the comment!

Sure thing! Thank you!

Sure thing! Glad the video was helpful!

Sure thing! Glad it was helpful!

Glad it was helpful! Happy to help!

Sure thing! Glad it was useful!

Meshtastic uses the signal level to determine which hop is the "furthest". So if the mountain top routers have good signals to each other and then someone who makes their rooftop node a router with maybe a crappy antenna, or the signal has to go through trees, etc. then that node appears to be the furthest and will be the next hop.

Welcome to Meshtastic! I think a lot of the earlier info out there recommended this. Hopefully this video is able to help spread the word.

Sure thing! For the yagi question, yagi will still send some signals out around it, so they would still be in range of each other. In my testing I've had to get at least a half a mile away before loosing signal

The map in the video is theoretical for the most part. I know there are some in that area though. I think Oswald Dome and Athens, ect.

Sure thing! Glad it was helpful!

I have heard about that. Hopefully doesn't go through. Hate seeing us lose bands or portions of them.

Sure thing! Thanks!

I can check, haha. What's the name?

Sure thing! Thanks for watching! The only time these should be used is at the highest point in a location. Generally, this means on mountain tops or if you're in a flat area, a tall tower or building. ROUTER_CLIENT is going away due to this issue being so prevalent. ROUTER and REPEATER are the same for the most part. Except REPEATER won't show up as a node on the list.

​@@The_Comms_Channel Great, thanks for clarifying it! 👍👍

Sure thing!

Thanks for watching and appreciate the comment!

If it's a festival with 100+ nodes, then the last example in the video is best (SHORT_FAST and CLIENT) If it's less than that, then MEDIUM_FAST and CLIENT should be fine. Since these scenarios are away from the main mesh, CLIENT is fine.

Sure do! Absolutely love it here!

Just a coincidence I'm afraid. I just used stock footage of a water tower for that part of the video. Looks like a beautiful area! Where is Ramsay?

Thanks for the comment and question! There is a tracker role that wasn't discussed in the video in order to focus on the more common ones. The tracker role is very GPS tracking focused and broadcasts GPS positions as a priority so it's not the best fit for a mobile node intended for communicating.

People don't read the docs and are why my videos exist 🙂

Sure thing! Thanks for watching and commenting!

@@The_Comms_Channelwhat mapping software are you using?

@@TouYubeTom I can recognize he is using Openstreetmap, but do not know which program. But many programs can use those maps.

umap.openstreetmap.de/en/

I think that would be best in my opinion, but I can see the other side of that where it wouldn't be a mesh and the user's may not know to change it to meet their situations.

💯💯💯

That would create another issue I didn't really discuss in the video of too many hops creating congestion.

While this is a video for the BBS, you could follow the same process up until 4:14 in the video to install it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4LuVoDQY-Kc.htmlsi=2apubUq7NPqLmPQU

Will depend on the area - 5:36 is one example and 5:56 is another

They are encrypted, so it is anon in that sense. Since they are radios, it is potentially possible to locate them via their signals and direction finding. I suspect they are harder to find than normal radios though. We'll be testing this out in a future video

@The_Comms_Channel thanks for responding. I'm interested in off grid free forms of communication I came across mesh networks a year ago and have been doing research on it. Modern tech is to big brother and unreliable at times I want a way to send text within a few miles without 3g 4g ect. Any direction you can point me in to get started as far as devices. I have a few pc's plus sdr radio receivers ham radios ect and other things so I'm pretty good with tech and setting up things. thanks again.

@@brittanycunningham787 Sure thing! Meshtastic or a ham radio with APRS should fit the bill! Meshtastic is the best if you need encryption There's a number of good options out now that don't require you to build it yourself. I've done some reviews on them and linked them below if you're interested in learning more ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YPguv_C6LOY.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-F1b7BYhhMTM.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Y7V54jMnmOg.html Also just reviewed an inexpensive ham radio with APRS ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4mQucwO8FJU.html

It's not recommended to increase to 7 hops. 3 or 4 is recommended. Only increase if absolutely necessary. High hop counts are another issue, but I didn't discuss in the video.

Meshtastic uses the signal level to determine which nodes are the furthest for the next hop. If someone has a node at their house set as a router, it's likely going to have a lower signal level than the node on top of the mountain and look further so the next hop will be that home router node instead of the next router on the mountain.

@@The_Comms_Channel it would be nice if they put an option in the menu to hop to nodes that have the highest GPS elevation 2 combat the house router

That's a good idea.

@@The_Comms_Channel I have a good idea every now and then currently there are no nodes in my area of Middle Tennessee so I will be putting up a couple thanks for the difference between client and repeater

It uses the signal level to calculate the furthest node. So if you have direct line of sight from mountain top router to mountain top router with good signal and a user sets up a router with a crappy antenna or a signal that has to go through trees, etc. it's going to have a lower signal level and appear to be the furthest node when it really isn't.

@@The_Comms_Channel but i think it does like a traceroute to see what node the packets need to go thru to reach the destination. so if there are more or less stations in between it doesnt matter since it will adapt itself anyway. it is the dynamic part of the mesh.

Unfortunately not

There's a link with Meshtastic equipment in the video description

I don't believe that is true about the next version being MF. What area?

@@The_Comms_Channel Oregon several people in the discord group have said v3 will be mf default like it’s a sure thing

I can't find anyone saying that there. Also, there is no mention of that in their goals board github.com/orgs/meshtastic/projects/20 There's also a goal to update LONG_MODERATE to be further away from LONG_FAST to reduce collisions

My understanding is that Meshtastic uses the signal level to determine how far a node is and will use that one as the next hop. Since the mountain top nodes are in elevated positions with direct line of sight, they will have a stronger signal than a node on someone's roof that has to go through trees or maybe doesn't have as good of an antenna. Even though these are closer, since these will have a weaker signal, they'll appear to be farther away and it will try to use that one for the next hop.

The example at 5:11 100% does not need to be a router. Client will be perfectly fine in this situation. Best rule of thumb is if there are Routers in the area on tops of mountains or tall towers, there is no need for additional.

Main problem is congestion. routers / nonmuted clients are more chatty, generating unnecessary / redundant traffic. less traffic is better ➡ less chatty nodes are better. this is radio system. radio spectrum does have limited "real estate", every timeslot matters.

☝️

Network routing is hard. Mesh routing is even harder. Can we show some hard evidence what in fact is better? Hard rules, maybe multiple simulation tests?

That's hard to do with a user deployed system with no coordination. It has no way of knowing the layout.

@@The_Comms_Channel Yes, it's a proper challenge. But I think it's something the Meshtastic guys need to build into the protocol. Communicating the GPS locations of nodes and signal strengths would allow building optimised routing. The users might just perhaps want to configure whether they prioritise distance or bandwidth between certain nodes.

Fair points and ideas 👍

​@@ChristieNel Sounds like a good idea. Every node shares what they see to the mesh -> GPS info and signal strenghts. Based on that, the mesh as a whole could build a rudimentary map of whats out there. This way every node has an rough idea of node locations and how best best route packets. Not sure how complicated this would be, but I'd assume if you'd let the "map info" slowly propagate thought out the mesh, it could work and not just cause massive congestion.

@@samik83 Something along those lines is what I'm thinking. The challenge is to do it in a decentralised fashion. You don't want one node to do all the deciding, or one naughty/bad node can blow up the whole network. And different versions of nodes can also cause chaos. Best might be to design the routing such that each node makes its own decisions and the deciding algorithm is such that this optimises the overall network. So it comes back to nodes specifying a path rather than just the next hop.

🥇

Thank you!