METAL GEAR SOLID OPERATION INTRUDE N313 WHAT HAPPEND? | THE FALL OF PHANTOMS ANALYSIS 

Interesting take Senator, but do you have the source to back that up?

@@dansmith1661 My source is that in Metal Gear 2 there's an optional radio call that says Big Boss was resurrected with cybernetics, either eliminating the possibility of Venom Snakes death as said in the timeline at the end of MGSV OR that statement which is intended to be taken as fact being confirmed to be a lie. Neither of these two conflicting explanations are never backed up and you can take whichever one you want as canon, but one or both was given by someone who made it the fuck up.

@@logandothewarlock6043 if you ask me mgsv is that reason, its clear Kojima didn't come up the "story" of v, during the msx games or after, originally there was one big boss and that was it, there's tons of retcons we can discuss but i cba, i dont know if these differences are because of unfocused writing, or because its intentional, as Kojima intended, mgsv was that perfect example of not everything we saw made sense, there no facts just interpretations but i do believe that's all intentional, i think people bitching about what's canon and retcons is that example the need for "truth", and do to what they will with it, although with that been said "naked snake" so where's the truth" "eva its buried in the lies", its just the same with big boss been made into a overly fabricated icon, its a information war with every character in the game with there interpretation's, make us questions the true narrative with the provided context, its not just "venom snake" that is "us" viewer its Raiden too, solid snakes speech at the end clarifies all these points you made really well done , although with the great text you made, i dont believe everything's just ciphers manipulation of information we may not of seen what they accomplished behind the scenes, but mgs does have have a "truth" an atonement, a revelation, free from "control" hence the religious themes and that is all confirmed in mgs4 that lays to rest a great series,

@@mycardboardbox Yes I totally agree, I don't think EVERYTHING is manipulated by cipher but it's impossible to say none of it is. Like what EVA said there is a truth, it's just hidden within the lies, and determining what those lies are is the part that's up to interpretation.

for me it was more insane how much difference Sigint made considering i didn't call him once in my first mgs3 playthrough and forgot he existed

​@@aapelikananena9699 Or how EVA was so important for the timeline despite she dissapeared after Snake eater

@@rockcaster1091 I mean, she does come back as Big Mama in MGS4. but she does then die in same game so you have a point

No he was still in foxhound during the outer heaven incident and Big Boss is made both outer heaven and Zanzibar land

He fought the real big boss in outer heaven and fought the phantom in Zanzibar

It's the other way around ​@@justinleecortez

How could the original comment on this thread get 47 likes when the comment itself is completely upside down and backwards? This is the only proof I need to understand how completely lost the new crop of MGS fans really are.

@@subtegral Bot voters

Deep shit. Didnt connect until now that Raiden is Snake's Venom.

It was never Big Boss idea. Ocelot and zero though of that he was going along with it. Big Boss and Venom had no idea solid snake will succeed they wanted him to fail

@@adrianb714 he was ok with it and thats enough for me, he took our identity and ran away with it while venom carried his sins, yeah they expected solid snake to fail but wasnt he mad to be used as a pawn before? he has no problems using people as pawns himself

Stop believing in V. It never happened.

@@ak-qd2jk Kojima is having to retcon decades or lore to fit in an unfinished game he plastered his name all over.

godbless

i just might, thanks for your support again bud

@@mycardboardbox no Need to thank me, you deserve the recognition. On the countrary i thank you For This well made and cared videos

Thank koonami for rejecting that idea

@adrianb714 yeah I brought it up after mgs5 but oh well

I've wanted a Boss WWII game too...and I'd love to play a young Liquid in the Middle East where he meets up with Sniper Wolf etc...

@@jc83942 what are you talking about the og boss! Her and the cobras in ww2

@jc83942 ugh you made me angry boss that taught john

no your wrong how would that be possible, why would big boss tell venom snake the truth of his identity and to take the "title" big boss after outer heaven, it makes no sense whatsoever when the whole idea once big boss established it he would pass it to his phantom , 😂 the dialogue in the msx game destroys your statement, venom snake says to solid snake he's big boss, plus the official metal gear wikis confirms "the phantoms dies" in outer heaven, and where anywhere in the Zanzibar game on the msx confirms big boss has a cybernetic arm? tf, when in mgs 4 it was confirmed his body parts where put together with pieces of solidus body and liquids after he was caught in the blast in Zanzibar and where in my video did i mention that outer heaven took in children??? and once again you clearly dont know what your talking about because big boss would have metal gear d established in Zanzibar land that was nuclear equipped, that was the deterrence against other nation states The intro to the game and the instruction manual mention that nuclear weapons had been completely abandoned by the time of the main plot, making Zanzibar Land the world's sole nuclear power, and yes i am a hardcore fan because i know what I'm talking about and so do many others who would think this is nonsense

I remember in one of the games Big Boss attacked with some kind of rocket arm. Don't remember which one it was though.

@@theViewer221 mgsv 😂

No it doesn't. And yes it is very important to the series. Replace Portable Ops with V in your statement and you're there.

👍

​@@subtegral Nah, V's contributions to the story just get a bad rap because the game itself wasn't finished. It's why a ton of conversations got relegated to tapes and chats in the back of a truck - there wasn't time to mocap/animate the cutscenes and work them into the game in a meaningful way because Konami decided to get rid of Kojima and tell the team to just release what they had. Also your entire counterargument amounted to "no you're wrong because I said so, now let me attack something else to somehow back me up." Nice work.

@@reloadpsi You're also wrong about V being unfinished.

@@subtegral your dropping truth nukes, mgsv is not unfinished there was just "cut content" but that's happened a few times in the series of mgs, its a great game and stands out, but it just lacks that something the others did better

yeah, and Quiet is Chico too.

its not possible gray fox was in Rhodesia in 1979 bud venom was in a coma at that point, and quiet been chico is fucking ridiculous 😂 i love theories but some need to be backed by some evidence or there just ludicrous, there is nothing to suggest venom snake is Gray fox in the timeline, as big boss says "let it go my son", still its a cool idea tho 👍

thanks, but i do what i want not what others tells me idc if people dont like it or if its not popular

Cool story bro

"... they've never managed to control people at will, let alone turn one person totally into another" - Big Boss to Solid Snake, MGS4. MGS4 directly invalidates the canonicity of V. And so does the final (post credits) ending of the original Metal Gear that shows that Big Boss survived. There simply was no Venom Snake in Metal Gear 1987 - a Kojima retcon attempt 28 years later doesn't make it so. Yes, this is my theory for a game that was literally shoe-horned into the series where it wasn't needed, but every point I made can easily be verified within the games. And they're all good questions to think about.. A time paradox is always triggered whenever Big Boss gets killed in MGS3.. and so does killing any character in V (and MGS3) that actually matters to the future timeline - anyone except Venom. Why ditch David Hayter for Sutherland? I mean seriously ponder that question. Even Hayter was dumbfounded by the choice. I believe the reason is because no actual Big Boss is ever in V. In Ground Zeroes, why does Kaz have a different story about Paz than the actual ending of Peace Walker? Can we at least agree that the player is Venom Snake? Well, the Camp Omega mission was in Venom's mind. Which means MSF Outer Heaven's Mother Base was never destroyed. Which means Ground Zeroes never happened. Which means The Phantom Pain never happened. Which means... all of V is the player's own fantasy hallucination to become Big Boss. It's just another "brilliant" Kojima misdirection switcheroo so that he can feel special over the masses again. Another Kojima ego tug job. But hey, thanks for reading bro.

​@subtegral very fascinating theory I enjoyed reading this I do agree the two V games do feel very shoe horned into the franchise

​@@saintpepsi8602Hey man, I appreciate your support. There's also something else. EVA said in MGS4... "Zero recovered their bodies" (Big Boss and Gray Fox from Zanzibar in 1999) I bring this up because EVA literally said "Zero", not "The Patriots". But according to V, Zero was basically brain-dead long before 1999. And before anyone asks "well how and why was Zero basically brain-dead by MGS4?" .. the real answer is simple: his health and age. He was 105. According to MGS3, Zero was born in 1909. No vocal cord parasite mumbo jumbo is required to explain it. Have you ever really wondered why Kojima chose to not use a 5 but instead a V? People always assume it's simply a Roman numeral that also means Venom (V has come to) even when the series has never used Roman numerals. Look up "Metal Gear Solid 5 Peace Walker" in images. Kojima originally considered Peace Walker to be MGS5 but Konami changed it during marketing because it wasn't a PS3 game. Hell, Kojima even confirmed the meaning of the letter V in a tweet. Here is what he said, copy and pasted: "Not MGS5, but MGSV. My thought in it. V has come to". My theory probably isn't exactly what Kojima intended, but it still falls in line with his overall concept of "the player becomes part of the series itself". Are we willing to invalidate the canonicity of MGS4 in order to support the canonicity of V? So if V is invalidated as part of the actual canon, then what happened between Peace Walker and Metal Gear? We already know. Big Boss could no longer trust Kaz, so he fired him and eventually moved MSF from the Caribbean to a land-based site in South Africa (probably right after the Gulf War, 1992) Once the new location was established he immediately returned to the U.S. and re-assumed command of FoxHound (which he originally established in 1971) We know that Big Boss went on many adventures during the 80's. He helped Frank Jaeger with Naomi Hunter in Rhodesia. He helped a young Sniper Wolf from her horrible existence and gave her a new meaning for her life, he got into contact with a young Liquid. And when David joined FoxHound in 1995 from the Green Berets, he actually assigned him the codename of Solid Snake, knowing he was one of his clones (EVA verified this in MGS4) So it's not difficult to believe that Big Boss had soldiers he could trust at Outer Heaven while he was hiding in plain sight in the U.S. (by separating himself from the newly established "Outer Heaven" nation, he was able to avoid suspicion) Those trusted soldiers he left behind at Outer Heaven were obviously the team that captured Gray Fox and tried to stop Solid Snake. Yes, Dirty Duck and Company. 😆 None of this required an elaborate body double/ doppelganger fake-out. And as for Big Boss arriving right when Snake destroyed Metal Gear TX-55, well that's even easier to explain. Big Boss was never far away, since he was always in contact with Snake via wavelength radio. Metal Gear never said that Big Boss remained across the ocean in the U.S. during FoxHound's Outer Heaven infiltration mission (Operation Intrude N313) Anyway, to anyone who actually reads all this, thanks, it's been a catharsis for me. 😅

​@@subtegralHey man that theory is freaking amazing and actually makes the most sense out of pretty much anything regarding MGSV. But one thing I find really interesting is how Ocelot describes himself being brainwashed to believe V is Big Boss, that being the word "doublethink". (My bad if you know what it means already but I'm just gonna explain for anyone reading) Doublethink comes from 1984 by George Orwell, which served as heavy inspiration for MGSV and it basically means that someone believes two contradicting truths at the same time. The interesting thing is that the timeline presented at the end of MGSV and pretty much any story layout created after V (including the stuff in the Master Collection) takes Venom as canon, despite the obvious contradictions you pointed out. I think that idea of doublethink essentially describes how many interpret Metal Gear lore and story, blindly believing whatever they're told as total truth, when the contradictions are right there, and the games that present contradictions are also blindly believed. It essentially proves the idea that the Metal Gear series presents that information and what people believe can be manipulated just like what the Patriots do. My point in saying this is that the MG series (its story anyway), imo, is not ever meant to taken literally/at face value 100%. What the "true" canonicity and timeline of the games really is is up to the player. I think your theory extenuates all of the stuff I mentioned, and how players fell "in love with the legend" so much that they've become blind to the lies staring them in the face, creating a state of doublethink, a state of fantasy as you describe.