Michael Jordan played five seasons without Scottie Pippen 84-85 38-44..First round exit 85-86. 30-52..First round exit 86-87. 40-42...First round exit 01-02. 37-45..out of playoffs 02-03. 37-45..out of playoffs LeBron james carried an absolutely horrific 2007 Cleveland Cavaliers team to the nba finals In the modern NBA era (post 1960) only nine NBA top 75 players have won a championship without another top 75 player as a teammate Rick Barry (1975) Bill Walton (1977) Hakeem Olajuwon (1994) Tim Duncan (2005) (2007) Kobe Bryant (2009) (2010) Steph Curry (2015) (2022) LeBron james (2016) Kawhi Leonard (2019) Giannis Antetokounmpo (2021) As you can see, LeBron James is on the list and Michael Jordan isnt Lebron james has won 17 playoff series, without an nba top 75 teammate. Michael Jordan won ZERO LeBron james has won 10 conference championships Michael Jordan won 6......Only Bill Russell and Sam Jones have more conference championships (In a mostly nine team league) than LeBron James In the year before Michael Jordan and LeBron James joined their team and the year after they left their team, their records were 83-84 bulls 27-55 84-85 bulls. 38-44 92-93 bulls 57-25 93-94 bulls 55-27 98-99 bulls 13-37 without Scottie Pippen 00-01 wizards 19-63 01-02 wizards. 37-45 02-03 wizards 37-45 03-04 wizards 25-57 02-03 cavaliers 17-65 03-04 cavaliers 35-47 09-10 cavaliers 61-21 10-11 cavaliers 19-63 09-10 heat. 47-35 10-11 heat 58-24 14-15 heat 37-45 2013-14 cavaliers 33-49 2014-15 cavaliers 53-29 2017- 18 cavaliers 50-32 2018-19 cavaliers 19-63 2017-18 lakers. 35-47 2018-19 lakers were 20-14 when LeBron James got injured on Christmas day. As you can see When LeBron James joins a team, the team improves more than Michael Jordan and when LeBron James leaves a team, the team always goes into the tank. Michael Jordan, excluding the 94-97 seasons, when the NBA moved the three point line to 22 feet, was a career 28% three point shooter. LeBron James is a career 34% three point shooter Michael Jordan was a great defensive player, in an Era where you could handcheck. Playing defense is much easier when you can handcheck. For nearly 6'9 250 LeBron James' entire career he wasn't afforded the opportunity to handcheck. THE EVIDENCE IS CLEAR..LEBRON JAMES IS THE GOAT!!!!! I have added a Postscript So many have replied, that LeBron james didn't make the playoffs his first two years and Jordan did. What they fail to say is, in 1985, 16 of 23 teams made the playoffs. In 2004, 16 of 29 teams made the playoffs. It was MUCH EASIER Making the playoffs in 1985. Perfect example is the 1985 86 bulls went 30-52 and made the playoffs and the 2004 05 cavaliers went 42-40 and did not make the playoffs. Also, I don't know, possibly, maybe, Jordan had a HUGE ADVANTAGE considering he played three years of college basketball and LeBron James was 19 years old, and straight out of high school
i like this argument. i got convinced for a minute. but then thought, that was a Jordan playing with jordan rules. I've been playing my whole life, a lot are big money games and not officiated. and that's so much physical cause its a game where the players playing are calling for the rules. so even if you to good and blow your opponent up on the first half, the 2nd half just be not hard but brutal defense. thats just basically hard fouling you almost the whole game cause theres no foul limit. so 90% of the time it always gets to a match point game. and 95% of the time can only won by a jump shot. and impossible to finish the game on match point inside the paint. so that's just how Jordan's league vs lebron. we all have to admin that the game then is just such a harsh environment. that's a stand point of a 35yrs old started playing basketball at 9yrs old without slippers for money, and only been able to play with shoes at 12yrs old. we play basketball minimum of 3x a week in our lifetime.. most of it are money games.. money games are brutal. officiated games tho are the best. that's where the skills and tallent shows. how can you show your skills if you're not able to finish your moves because of hard and painful foul.
@mistwiir4011 maybe you should stop d riding Jordan when he blackballed Isiah off the team yall lying Jordan used to cry to david stern and got kicked the psychical rules changed
Notice how Isaiah has been recently praising Pippen despite bashing him earlier? It's because Pippen turned on Jordan. Isiah is just showing the world who he really is.
Please put it into the right context. They were the champs, beating celtics and lakers and MJ's for years. A night before this game, both an ass - sorry MJ and Phil were extremaly disrespectfull towards detroit. It was really weak lads. Of course isiah did wrong, but the celts did exactly the same towards bad boys, yet people dont say about it! C'mon
Fun fact: Before the "Jordan Rules"....in 12 games during the 1987, 1988 seasons....Jordan averaged 39.8ppg against the Pistons, including 59 and 61-point explosions.
@@kw9325who was on Jordan’s team? Yeah ok, bye. Thomas played with HOF players and was still getting smoked by Jordan. Once Jordan got ONE all star, he swept they bum asses.
@@bryang8967 Hahaha. Funny🤣😁. No, wait! Its not! Pistons were a bunch of solid, but only average players. Chuck's genius and Zeke's charisma made them tough, but still they were only average lads doing a perfect, tactical job. What are you talking about then? About who? Bill, Denis at the time, Rick, old James, old Microwave, who exactly was so special? Young Joe was good, but not a super special or a star. C'mon. And MJ was smooked how many times by detroit and already having Pipp with him since 87? 3-4? Yep, exactly. Bye
@@bwink23 Im older than your grandpa, so cut the crap kiddo. Play offs 88' - 1:4, 89' - 2:4, 90' - 3:4 and regular heavy beating during regular seasons. Yep, not so many wins for a MJ, who already had Pipp on his side.
Let’s see… 80s performance: 85 RoTY 85-89 All-star game 88 All-star MVP 87-89 1st team All-NBA 87-89 1st team All-Defense 87-88 Scoring title 88 Steals title 88 DPOY 88 MVP With no other All-star on the team. How did no one else on that panel take him to task?
Not only that, but Mike was the lone player on a team that went up against many teams that had 3 or more future HOF players! Kinda hard to get past the first round going up against those teams back then! He’s still an old ass bitter man…sounds like Thomas is the one crying to me!
They tried to say Jordan was the only one that cried to the league when Magic, Bird did the same thing 😂. Like Uncut Hoops said, EVERYONE hated the pistons and their dirty play style.
@@Big_3000Yeah, that style of play was dangerous potentially resulting in injuries but MJ was still individual dominating and getting scoring titles in the 80s
@andresdelportillo9917 Zeke had Dantlety/Aguirre and Laimbeer who sacrificed All-Star stats and status for championships. Dumars won FMVP, and Rodman was DPOY caliber. Great coach in Daily, great role players in Vinny, Mahorn, Edwards & Salley
Many people still talk about Michael Jordan as not being a good teammate or a crybaby. If you grew up watching Jordan play, you'd know he was highly competitive and always wanted to win. Unfortunately, many people don't understand being competitive or know what it means to win at that level. This is something that Jordan always understood. In an interview, he once said that he didn't want to join Magic or Bird but preferred to play against the best to be the best. Jordan never called himself the self-proclaimed GOAT 😂😂😂This is the main difference between him and LeBron. Although LeBron always looks for the best play and tries to involve his teammates, Jordan knew he wanted to win. As a result, Jordan's competitive nature produced a lot of success. Therefore, we must be careful when analyzing competitive people, especially in this society where points have become more critical than championships. We now celebrate losing over winning; you remember when the Nuggets won, people were fixated on Lebron’s alleged retirement 😂😂😂
If any of his teammates are saying this I say give the ring back Jordan was a c suck at times but it propelled them to win even the suck one which most times was the whole team he made everybody better
@@arthurbrown-jy2ez Jordan's competitiveness and will to win made him difficult to be around at times. There were some teammates who couldn't work with that, and there were some teammates who elevated with it (Pippen, Kerr, etc). The fact that Kerr stuck with the team even after getting socked in the mouth by Jordan shows his own competitive nature and desire to win, even if it meant having verbal altercations in practice with the most powerful player in the league.
Isiah was part of the all star team that iced out MJ his rookie yr, never shook his hand when he got the broom in 91, while MJ did when he lost. Isiah had been taking shots at him prior to “the last dance” and even after. Meanwhile MJ hasn’t said anything since the doc, yet Isiah is still out here on tv/podcasts taking shots at him, even on his own social media. He always comes off jealous, not to mention how MJ took over his city lmao.
@@hinika Because MJ has high EQ, he knew that no matter what and how he respond, the media and many sport analyst will find a way to twist his word to fit their narratives, so he remain silent for zeke, he doesnt need to respond cos he already gave the result on the basketball court. Zeke can show salty and sour grape all he want but MJ is already done with him.
Larry Bird would never brag about beating an #8 seed team in the playoffs 😂😂😂. Jordan haters never watched a single minute of an actual game in that era, live or recorded. Yet they try and talk like they have any clue at all lol
I watched them. I saw a selfish ball hogging gloryhound & that’s why I hate him. I didn’t find out he was also a bully until much later, or that his mob affiliations & his gambling were the REAL reason he was FORCED to “retire”…but it was just MORE reasons to hate him. His ego, his attitude, the fact that he started believing his own hype and acting like his shit didn’t stink….THATS why I hated him. Bball is a TEAM sport. Apparently he never got that memo.
I watched and grew up in that era. Bird stated that MJ is not the GOAT (he also didn't name one), but he gives a similar reason. Although he called him Jesus in basketball shoes, he also stated that he's swept Jordan every time they've played. Jordan as a teammate was a bully. Never was a fan. I loved when Parish backed him down in a practice when he attempted to bully him. Parish let him know what he'd do to him if he tried it again...and told him he was winning championships way before him. Patrick Ewing and the Knicks became the next victims of the rule changes. That's when teams began to be associated with the main man and everyone else was a "sidekick"....didn't like the Jordan era. Was glad when team ball came back in style.
Isiah is more known talking about Jordan than about his own basketball career and legacy. That's actually pretty sad. He is not making headlines in the media because of his own achievements, so he probably feels the urge to talk about Jordan to stay relevant.
Bet 99% of people dont know Isiah has beaten MJ, Bird, Magic and Kareem. Despite his butthurt, I like the way he speaks, soft spoken and all, no ghetto talk like the modern "niBBaz" trying to be tough by talking hoodtalk.
Isiah's Pistons tried really hard to hurt you. Not just to knock you on your ass when you drive, but to blind side you. sweep your legs mid air or place an elbow to the teeth. They were unsporting at best, despicable at worst.
And yet had to restore to bullyball tactics to beat an aging Celtics , an aging Lakers, and a Bulls term with one mega star player kinda putts a blemish on what the team accomplished
BOS resorted to the same tactics before DET. Pat Riley’s Knicks did the same thing, but they didn’t win, etc. Even MJ has to loose. You all expect Bron fans to admit their faults, yet you all still can’t admit DET beat you all 3 straight years. What did the Bucks resort to, to beat CHI, because the Bucks could never beat DET.
Isiah Thomas wouldn't have done shit with the 80s Bulls either. That franchise had a reputation in the 1980s called the "Traveling Cocaine Circus" similar to how Portland was called the "Jailblazers in the mid 2000s. Jordan told the story himself about how that time he was looking for his teammates at the hotel 1 time during his rookie season, and that when he found them more than half of them were in one room having a party that featured drugs, lines of people there for the drugs. Loose women all over the place, liquor, and all sorts of other shit going on. He left the party right away and never associated with any of those guys after that. So he was basically on his own. The front office had to get rid of all those knuckleheads and replace them with better teammates before the winning could begin in Chicago, and even when they got a good team they were still losing for a little while. When Pippen and Grant arrived that team lost 3 years in a row, they hired Phil Jackson and lost his rookie year as head coach of the squad to the Pistons. THEN they finally won in 1991. Isiah Thomas will likely never look into such facts though. He just wants to run his mouth and so do fans out there that think like him.
One thing players like IT don't get is that the more they trash MJ the more they trash their own era and legacies, also what is the point of doing all that? Grudge for something that happened 30 years ago? Clout chasing? Money? IT is one of the guy that know the game best and has an amazing ability to convey his take, yet when it comes to MJ it all comes down.
I wish more people were around in the 80s to see how the game was actually played. It was physical, and there were some fierce rivalries. Hard fouls happened a fair bit. But what the Pistons did was use it as a tactic unrelated to the actual game play, and that's why people hated it so much (and they had some unlikable players at times, but that's no different than today). It wasn't a way you'd want to grow the game, and teach kids to play, so skill won out. Players still had six fouls, so it's not like they took the gloves off. I don't think many regret the flagrant foul rule change (sorry IT, you're imagining it being a bunch more). My issue is with more recent rule changes actually bastardizing the game, like the virtual non-existence of traveling calls.
Amen! I'm old enough to remember those games though I was around 11. I still to this day cannot stand Bill Laimbeer. The way the pistons played did make them antagonists but it was entertaining. Especially when they got a whoopin'.
Yes, the carry and travelling..needs to have some limits.. And flopping is terrible... . it is an offense to the game.. and creates a lot of inflated stats.
Dudes like Isaiah still hating on MJ 30 years later while MJ doesn't even waste his time responding. MJ knows he's got nothing to prove by talking now. He did all of his talking on the court where you were left fucking speechless
He got left off the Dream Team...that won't be undone 30 years later no matter what he says today; in the 80s when Isiah was on the Pistons they missed the playoffs his first two years, and also had two first round exits before they eventually became champions, so should that be held against Isiah too?
I would just like to say that I recognize the hard work you're putting into your videos. The quality of your editing and your scripts are definitely getting better. You are continuously progressing at being able to articulate thoughts. Keep it up man.
so basically when they implement the flagrant foul, the pistons couldnt keep getting away with how rough they played. therefore causing their play being less effective. sure they werent pure dirty players but the fact is the rough play was their crutch.
At this point Isiah Thomas needs to seek therapy. For ONE man to be living in your head for all these years is very unhealthy. Seems to me like we’re witnessing the true crybaby in Isiah Thomas. Michael Jordan famous “STOP IT, GET SOME HELP! Comes to mind real quick when it comes to Isiah Thomas. 😂
Look at Pistons in the 1980s. They had the same ascension as the Bulls only Isiah got there a couple years earlier. The Pistons also lost in the first round, then lost to the Celtics, and finally got over the hump. They weren't at the top for as long as the Bulls.
The flagrant foul rule would be significant because now the regular common fouls could get you ejected from the game. 6 hard fouls compared to 2 flagrant fouls and ejection. Huge difference.
Isiah Thomas is salty that Jordan swept and embarrassed him in the '91 ECF. And almost everyone from the Dream Team didn't want to play with Isiah. He will never give Jordan credit because he's petty and jealous of Jordan's success and legacy. First he said Kareem was the Goat, now he says LeBron, Cry Baby Isiah. Jordan is the one and only GOAT.
@anthonysanchez5997 that's a lie and you know it Real Basketball Fans know pistons were gonna three peat but Isiah Thomas had broke his wrist and needed surgery
I feel sad for Zeke. Really. Because of how hé behaved nobody wanted him on thé Dream Team.imagine nobody, no one of thé greatest players to ever have lived wanted him on that team.
The Devil with an Angels Smile as Magic called Isiah, he's like the child who's biological Father(Chicago)doesn't love him as much as the adopted son aka MJ.
MJ doesn't talk to anyone. Only reason zeek talks about mj is because HE IS ASKEE ABOUT IT.! ISIAH never starts the convo he simply answers. And Isiah doesn't hate mj he said that over and over. Mj said verbatim HIS HATRED STILL RUNS TO THIS DAY!
Thank God they implemented those "Jordan rules"... No one wants to see players get clubbed over the head while driving in the paint. IT was always in his feelings when he got hit, and was hiding behind Bill, Dumars, Rodman...
if Pippen need to stop it, Isiah need to STOP iT!!!! MJ shook heir hands and took his L's, Isiah and the Pistons did NOT do the same when they lost, who's the cry baby?
Jordan is a cry-baby and has 6 rings whereas Thomas has only two? Further more, Jordan has never responded to Thomas' innuendos about their beef and probably never will. Plus, Jordan got the last laugh by conspiring among other 1992 Dream Team players to exclude Thomas from the US National Team. Who's the cry-baby?
Isiah Thomas was good, but never league best beside his play-off MVP. He will always be bitter toward Michael Jordan because of the 1992 Dream Team snub. It is Isiah's own fault he did not get invited. He was too toxic and disliked by not only MJ but Larry Bird, Patrick Ewing, Scottie Pippen etc on the sqwuad and Chuck Daley had to make the decision that Thomas would not work well with that much tense and antagonistics so he had to go from the candidates. Any sane coach would rather have MJ & Larry Bird then one lesser tallent player.
The NBA did not change any rules for Jordan. The flagrant foul rule was implemented because the NBA was trying to clean up its image because they wanted to market their brand overseas. The hard fouls many times led to players fighting, which gave the NBA a bad image. The Pistons were part of the reason the flagrant foul rule was created
If I'm Jordan I wouldn't care if they blamed me either like MJ said it wasn't just him who didn't want Isiah Thomas on the team but if you want to blame just him go right ahead. Now to this day who's being the whiny little baby Zeke that's who. It's deeper than the Dream Team snub though Jordan is a god/superhero in Isiah's hometown Bob Knight Isaiah's college coach called Jordan the 🐐 before he even played an NBA game oh and then there's the fact that Jordan 6 Rings made people forget about the Pistons 2 because 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆-🙂👌🏽>🏆🏆-😭
Jordan in the 80s was Rookie of the Year. MVP. Defensive Player or the year once. 3 time scoring Champ etc. Sure Isiah. Jordan loves rent free in your head
It's always going to come down to him being left out of the dream team. Did the NBA do him dirty making that decision? Yes. Was it 100% Jordans doing? No. Isaiah has to take responsibility for rubbing players, fans, and the league the wrong way. With that said, he should not have been snubbed, but it is what it is.
Isaiah was an incredibly talented player who had his moment and came through in an incredible way winning two championships but Jordan ended his run and ended up being the greatest player in history and won 6. It's pretty clear that it still bothers him and he keeps popping off to stay relevant.
Zeke confused purposely the Bulls to MJ when it fits his narrative. He doesn’t talk about his own carrier prior and after those couple championships years.
Jordan respects him as a player. He said that himself. As men, they probably won't ever make amends, so Isiah will always dig at Jordan in public. And Jordan doesn't even need to say anything, he's so much bigger there's no point, it's like, whatever, he can have his opinion, no problem.
Let’s go easy on Isaiah, folks. He still has PTSD from that period where the Pistons thought it was a good idea to include player’s first and last names on the back of their jerseys.
If Isiah stop let MJ living in his mind rent free he can stop being so underrated. It's hard to market anyone when he produce daily salt of what happens 30 years ago.
This is how I am going to close this in the 1992 season the Knicks beat the s*** out the Piston couldn't beat the Knicks every time the Knicks play the bulls with Michael Jordan they never won, and how easy the Pistons lost against the Knicks, flagrant fouls and everything,but never saw them intimidated like that ,when the Knicks faced the bulls yeah they gave them a run for the money ,but Michael playing the triangle wasn't helping,in the last gane ,gane 7, he said give me the damn ball and get out of the way ,42 points ,and he had half of bulls points ,I mean Isaiah Thomas just shut up
Isiah just want Jordan to admit that he were the one that didn't won't him on the Dream Team cause MJ said that he had nothing to do with Isiah not making the cut on the Dream Team and MJ lied about that.Charles Barkley told it all.He said Jordan said he wasn't going to play with the Dream Team if Isiah were going to be on the Team and we all know how that when down 😮
I seen a video the other day where a young boy ask mj for an autograph and Jordan said no. Be careful kids who you’re heroes are. Jordan didn’t become what he did without 3 hofs on the bulls team. Just Jordan wouldn’t have won one ring without them
Isaiah Thomas and the “bad boy” Pistons remind me of the crappy, less skilled players in high school who resort to playing “dirty”. Instead of competing at a higher level, practicing, improving their game, they resort to illegal tactics. At that point, they’ve already thrown the white flag. At that point, they’ve already admitted defeat saying “YOU ARE THE BETTER PLAYER/TEAM. We cannot complete with you while keeping the integrity of the game intact.”
The Bulls were arguably the second best team in the NBA in the final two seasons of the 1980s. In the 1988-89 season the Bulls were the only team to beat the Pistons in the playoffs. That Piston team went 15-2, sweeping the Celtics in three games, the Bucks in four games, and the Lakers in four in the NBA Finals. They beat the Bulls 4-2. In the 1989-90 season the Pistons went 15-5 in the playoffs, but were only 4-3 against the Bulls. In the seventh game, Jordan was the best player on the court. He scored the most points, 31 to Isiah's 21. He shot 48% from the field, made all five free-throws, and nearly had a triple-double with nine assists and eight boards. Of course we all know about Pippen's migraine and his awful 1 for 10 from the field. But Jordan didn't get help from anyone in that game. Horace Grant went 3 for 17, Craig Hodges went 3 for 13, Bill Cartwright went 3 for 9, and BJ Armstrong was just 1 for 8. Overall the rest of the Bulls shot 24% from the field. There's no way anyone should put that loss on Jordan. I think the main reason Isiah is so bitter, is that him and his team were an afterthought once the Bulls started winning. After the Bulls swept them away in 1991, they literally disappeared off the face of the Earth. Jordan would go on to win six championships after that sweep. Isiah's Pistons would make the playoffs the following season, but were out in the first round to the Knicks. NBA fans would never hear from that team again, and Isiah would retire shortly after. This is one of my favorite RU-vid channels. Great content Uncut Hoops!!!
